Checking Out Hesperia
May 21, 2013
Part IV (of I-IV)
The new color light signals are in service by the Main St. overpass.
Above, to lay a third-track here, a concrete waterway would have to be relocated or extensively redone.
A climbing westbound BNSF comes along.
An eastbound UP empty ballast train soon comes along too …
… and their rear ends pass by the now old Main St. multilane overpass.
The Ranchero Rd. through road when finally open as well as the connection to I-15 will relieve much congestion on Main St. in downtown Hesperia.
This will conclude the series.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
K.P., thanks for the photo updates on this part of the desert I haven't visited recently.
Completing this 'missing' segment of Ranchero Road seems to be the very first step in creating a four lane arterial road around south Hesperia. The I-15 interchange project is just getting started. Evidence of other road widening projects hasn't been found, so this new intersection will be an island of non-congestion for a while.
This speculated 'LH connection' at Alray is pretty far fetched IMHO. Saving a mere forty miles of running distance and crew time on duty would be offset by mileage payments to UP and other complications. The UP alternative route is single track only with fewer, more widely spaced sidings compared to BNSF's route with half its mileage double tracked. However, crew turnarounds in Palmdale might be better received than at Barstow (sorry B-Rick). Business on both BNSF's north-south corridor and southern Transcon would have to surge significantly to justify all this. Also, they have to put some serious $$$ into reducing Tehachapi bottlenecks first over the next eight years. We'll check back then for a crystal ball update ....
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
MikeF90 wrote the following post at Thu, May 23 2013 2:00 PM: " However, crew turnarounds in Palmdale might be better received than at Barstow (sorry B-Rick). "
Mike, You funny guy. LOL I believe you'd be correct...it gets hotter then hades in Barstow.
Just so we understand each other. I never said anything about a northbound connector track anywhere near Alray. I believe that implication came from K.P.. To include something about ground zero for something or other. Are we supposed to be reading in crew change? If so.. I don't give a rip about and couldn't care less. Not my problem.. Besides we are at best just speculating here. Best educated guess...wins!
What I did say is, If BNSF and UP, if (IF) they did reach track agreements allowing BNSF to run on the on the old SP Colton Cut Off, it would be from Devore, Ca. to Mojave, CA. via Palmdale and Landcaster, CA. That would be the best routing with minimal maneuvering and down time.
I want to share another idea that hit me at this writing... and that is the option or options available to BNSF. I.e.: To make up a train in the San Bernardino BNSF "B" yard and run the train through the connector track at the Colton Crossing aka the Flyover, connecting with the UP.. Make a right on UP's Colton Cutoff and they are headed north without any additional crossovers. An all but no cost solution (referencing construction costs).
Option well just read the thought shared here. I.e.:Trouble is, downside, a through train out of Hobart, Ca. would have to stop in the San Berdu., "B" yard and run the locomotives around to the rear of the train. Back tracking through Colton to the Crossover, under the freeway onto UP tracks and so on. If you get my drift.
The other issue is a signal mast that K.P. has referred to and provided pictures of that looks to be one at the Summit and I only see two tracks in the picture where there is now three. Other then the road to Silverwood Lake and Mt. Baldy, in the background I have no other clues as to where he actually took this picture. Fits the Summit perfectly. Still his pictures shared, analogies and speculation are interesting to read.
To our local railroader reporter and tell tale reader...keep it coming K.P.
RickH
BarstowRick.com Model Railroading How To's
Replies …
MikeF90 (5-23):
You are welcome, Mike. I just wish I hadn’t stayed away so long that a whole underpass was built before I returned. Isn’t the saying that time flies so true?
In some ways putting in a left handed turnout at Alray is farfetched, but the three-track wide grading and signal bridge between Silverwood and Alray speaks for itself.
It must be remembered that, according to sources, UP test runs HAVE actually been run. So, a southbound BNSF train being taken over by a UP crew at Bakersfield and running over the UP Palmdale Cutoff to San Bernardino and being relieved by a BNSF crew there for a final run to Los Angeles is feasible, and in the realm of possibility. I just don’t see the BNSF unions putting up with this particular effort because of the long standing present agreements. But, who knows …
BarstowRick (5-23):
By the “signal mast” that you referred to I think you meant the signal BRIDGE by Hill 582, the signal bridge in the photo illustrated in the reply to MikeF90 just above.
LINK: Aerial of Signal Bridge by Hill 582
That signal bridge is BETWEEN Alray and Silverwood. As seen in both the above photo and the link aerial, room for a third-track is present, but to this post day there are only two-tracks there and NOT three.
Hill 582, by the way, is an inference to a railfan hill or popular observation point that is only dirt road accessible, a location near M.P. 58.2 on the old AT&SF “North Track” line.
Best,
K.P.
With regard to the signal mast I appreciate the definitive answer. Like you I'ma now wondering why such a long signal mast? But I've seen this kind of thing done before. Grab what's available in the scrap yard and hope to save a few bucks.
Yep, I know where the "Garden Spot" is. I've been there many a time. Met up with Anaheim Al, and other's there for a Saturday visit.
It's been awhile though since I've been down there.
With regard to KeenBrook Crossover. Chard Walker was known for being the one to suggest that location and a lot of us would like to see it called the Walker Crossover. To date you are so right.
Train Crews: I might add here that it's not unusual for BNSF train crews to take a BNSF train over foreign track. Once they are checked out on the route and approved to run by UP mgmt., then they are good to go. Got's to pass a rule book exam as AT&SF crews did with SP over Tehachapi and the UP crews when moving trains over Santa Fe's, Barstow, San Bernardino to Riverside tracks. Nothing new here.
Thanks K.P
K.P., great work as of late (as always) in this thread, as well as the Sunset Route and Perris threads.
Your pictures from the Ranchero Road underpass project are the only updates available, as the City of Hesperia webcams have not worked since the rain storm we had at the beginning of May.
Just another thought on trains and crews traveling over the old SP, Colton Cutoff. I've been down on the mountain watching train traffic, when the local that runs from Barstow down and back from the old SP Colton Yard, used the Colton Cutoff up to the Silverwood Crossover, using such to return back over and onto the old Santa Fe tracks. I know, you are so right IT's now the UP and BNSF. Welcome to the future.
Part A (of A-C)
BarstowRick (5-24): Location Names
Believe it or not, I don’t recall hearing before that Chard Walker was the one that had suggested the present Keenbrook location for transferring trains from one railroad to the other.
In double-track days (each track with a direction of travel), Keenbrook was an eastbound siding location a couple of miles railroad east of the present Keenbrook crossovers. I never could figure out the logic in two locations being identified as Keenbrook. The crossovers CP seems misnamed, at least in my opinion.
Renaming the present Keenbrook to Walker would have made sense when Chard passed away, but it wouldn’t work now. The traditional Alray location, where a double-crossing was put in the triple-tracking, was hastily name-changed to Walker shortly after Chard died. So, the Walker name is sadly in kind of a mixed-up environment.
I feel sorry for Mr. Al Ray for whom the Alray siding was named after. In pre-1972 Automatic Block Signal (ABS) “Double Track” days that “Alray” siding designation brought honor to that man. And Mr. Ray still was semi-honored in CTC “Two Track” days as a spur location name. But, not anymore! There is nothing physically there that can be associated with the Alray name, except on maps of the area.
What is done is done … But, there is a way of officially unscrambling the confusions and make things aright … sort of, anyway!
In my humble opinion, if a new transition track between the BNSF and UP is put in someday (under the odd, nonconforming three-track signal bridge pictured previously, by Hill 582) the east end of that transition track could remain as Silverwood. The west end could be designated as Alray. Since the damage is already done, the Walker crossovers obviously should remain as the Walker crossovers. Now, what about Keenbrook? Again, in my humble opinion, the Keenbrook crossovers and transition connection could be renamed Chard. Having TWO CP locations named after one man (a first and last name) would be rather unprecedented, but historically he was a rather extraordinary Santa Fe employee-railfan! An entirely new CP could be put in at the historically traditional Keenbrook location and named Old Keenbrook or just Keenbrook. But that possible new CP could be different from the traditional BNSF triple-track CP’s …
Baseline
Verdemont
… and be as on UP’s triple-track Central Corridor line in Nebraska.
CP B82 HWY 10 along the famous Central Corridor track-following Highway 30
Such could allow more easily an unscrambling of traffic congestion between the directions. Maybe the CP could be simple and have only half the switches, but TWO trains could crossover at the same time.
Interestingly, that stretch has TWO intermediate signal sets between crossover CP’s, whereas most only have ONE set of intermediates on the nongeographic western slope of Cajon Pass.
Of course, BarstowRick, I’m not part of BNSF, let alone one of the decision making higher-ups. So while what was presented herein might make sense (hopefully, anyway), we are not likely to actually see anything like it on Cajon Pass. But, it makes for some interesting physical plant and CP identification conjecturing …
Continued in Part B
Replies
Part B (of A-C)
mvs (5-24):
Thanks for letting us know there is a wide angle webcam looking at that Ranchero Ave. underpass construction site, though it appears from the website that it presently is not working. I had no idea I might have been watched in the past by a webcam! Good thing I wasn’t an unscrupulous villain that everyone could watch!!!
That whole vantage area is actually being rebuilt now and new cul-de-sac curbing was being constructed, according to an onsite visit Sunday, May 12, 2013, and looked much, much different from when I first was there a few months ago.
As the just above last paragraph was being typed up, my youngest boy, who has a driving learners permit now, said he needed to go to a Super Walmart. Which one, I asked. Hesperia was his reply! “We can go all the way over there,” I said, “IF we can get some photos by the tracks,” and thus he could get even more driving practice that way.
So, I was able to go back in good timing to above the Ranchero Rd. underpass site and tie some loose ends up as to what is actually there.
There appears to be NO webcam present now, explaining why a live feed is no longer available at the city’s website. And, that dirt cul-de-sac has been hot topped!
An eastbound BNSF soon zipped into view.
As that train passed, other shots were obtained. The street end east side residence is on the below photo's upper right, with a new driveway attached now to the old driveway. And the difficult to walk around area across from the house was all nicely graded now!
Reply to mvs continued in Part C
Part C (of A-C)
That residential area has a great westward view of the new Ranchero Rd. and the now nicely smoothed out top of the embankment area.
Some new water funneling concrete-work is also present.
The right to left passing train’s end finally came with two DPU’s. One unit had the paint gone, as if it had had an engine fire.
So, mvs, the site is quite impressive, and the residences there with a close view of the tracks make this railfan somewhat jealous! Anyway, that is the current status of the underpass construction and Ranchero Rd. highway building.
Take care all,
Thanks K.P. for the additional photos. Looks like the one house at the end of the cul-de-sac is getting a nice new paved street in exchange for all the construction work and photos taken in the area!
K.P. some interesting conjecture there. It is what it is and it's going to be what it is, despite our best wishes or hypothesis. Grin!
Your come back is appreciated and dully noted.
More on the New Color Light Signals
Victorville, CA
In Victorville, railroad east of, physically north of the railroad station called Thorn the new color light signals were found May 31, 2013 to have been activated as expected.
This confirms, then, the whole Lugo to Frost stretch of color light signals has been activated.
For the Jealous Types
K.P. just had to share the above location’s area housing with a view overlooking the tracks.
Such a house with a railroad view may be a dream of many of us …
Ranchero Road officially opened to traffic yesterday:
http://www.vvdailypress.com/articles/saturday-41038-set-cutting.html
I wonder if they will keep the "private" crossing near the aqueduct open.
http://goo.gl/maps/xu0Vk
mvs (6-30):
What timing! It just so happen that something personal popped up earlier today that necessitated a visit to Victorville. Because of your timely post about the Ranchero Rd. underpass now being open, I was able to check that area out! During the taking of some photos underneath the bridging, an eastbound BNSF went over the structure, making a strange sound, a ‘wonnnnggg’ type noise. I never heard that before, anywhere!
While running around photos of the new signals by the M.P. 42.9 detector was taken, as well as from up on the Main Street overpass in Hesperia that shows the blocking cement-work in the way of a third-track.
Hopefully, some photos of all this can be posted in a day or two or three.
rdamon (7-1):
Concerning the running around mentioned to mvs above, I was quite close to that private grade crossing earlier today. It was only after getting home that your post was seen and read. I’ve seen aerials of the closed grade crossing with crossing gates before, but your post has got me curious now. I don’t recall if the roadway that leads up to the grade crossing from the highway is closed or not, but it seems that roadway was inaccessible to the public in the past.
If that grade crossing truly is “private,” whoever owns it must have paid a pretty penny for it. Years ago a friend and I actually talked to someone that had such a private crossing. Back then he had to pay another railroad $80,000, as I recall, plus a yearly fee to keep maintenance up. And, that single-track private grade crossing was on a line that had nowhere near the volume of traffic the BNSF two-track one has on the east slope of Cajon Pass!
My guess is that it is part of the Aqueduct since there is not a public crossing close to there. When I lived in the area in the early 90's there was just a single red light and an anemic bell. They upgraded it to full lights around 1995-96.
The concrete barriers were not there so many residents and emergency vehicles made use of it without concern.
This was the same time that the two "culverts" were open to single lane vehicle traffic between Main street and Bear Valley road.
http://goo.gl/maps/V7yKl
http://goo.gl/maps/w8lsl
Robert
On the Way to and at the Ranchero Rd. Underpass
The Cajon Pass Eastern Slope
Hesperia, CA
Part I (of I-X)
In the M.P. 42.9 area of the Cajon Subdivision are intermediate signals, and the new installed color lights were activated not to terribly long ago.
The “G” stands for grade and trains can keep moving (at slow speed) without stopping if the signal displays red.
A side view from the west:
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-X)
The old target signal base from circa 1972 is still present.
There is a short sign westbound of and between the signals.
The sign is for the M.P. 42.9 detector. The flipping over trigger is on the lower right
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-X)
The intermediates just railroad east of Main Street in Hesperia.
The drainage system is right next to Main 1, so something would have to be modified if and when this area is triple-tracked.
Just to the north (eastbound, left) the drain system changes to bolders.
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-X)
To the north of Main Street, the Lucerne Valley Subdivision branches off physically to the east. Overall, it is a very curvy line in which the “Cushionbury” train traverses.
On the east side of Hesperia the line curves to near the motorists' roadway.
Why this is even mentioned in the “Cajon Pass Triple-Tracking Updates” thread is because of a very rinky-dink but big, generally wooden edifice the line crosses. Some spans are steel girders.
Just above on the upper right, the line curves on mountainside embankments.
Continued in Part V
Part V (of I-X)
The signs to “Keep Off” …
… are more meaningful than most, because the bridge has NO walkways whatsoever!
Continued in Part VI
Part VI (of I-X)
So, if a train goes into emergency on the bridge, how can a train crew get the engine off the 10 M.P.H. bridge …
… in order to walk the train and find the problem?
It is K.P.’s understanding that the first step is to get the power off the bridge. They do that by disabling the engine’s air brakes and using only the independent brake (to stop the engines or engines) and “drag” everything off the bridge. Once the train can be walked or disabling location drag-found off the bridge, the problem then can be gotten to and fixed.
If the power derails on such a bridge, well, I don’t know … Maybe someone calls a rescue helicopter …
Now, let’s kind of ‘helicopter over to the Ranchero Rd. underpass …
Continued in Part VII
Part VII (of I-X)
At the west side of the now open Ranchero Rd. and underpass, looking east:
From the east side looking west:
Continued in Part VIII
Part VIII (of I-X)
Looking west views:
Continued in Part IX
Part IX (of I-X)
Underneath looking eastbound:
Interesting decorations:
Continued in Part X
Part X (of I-X)
Looking east: The cross street at the stop lights is where Summit Valley Rd. from Summit in Cajon Pass is at.
Boulders, slants, and the underpass bridge:
An eastbound (leftward) goes by. K.P. was expecting more power and higher railcars, but the train consisted of only two engines and empty 10-pak cars. It looks out of balance …
When K.P. was at Ranchero Rd. moderate vehicle traffic was present. Main St. in downtown Hesperia was as congested as ever. In time, undoubtedly Ranchero Rd. will become packed with vehicles too. But that will have to wait for the presently under construction overpass and on and off ramps for I-10.
K. P. Harrier On the Way to and at the Ranchero Rd. Underpass The Cajon Pass Eastern Slope Hesperia, CA Part VI (of I-X) So, if a train goes into emergency on the bridge, how can a train crew get the engine off the 10 M.P.H. bridge … … in order to walk the train and find the problem? It is K.P.’s understanding that the first step is to get the power off the bridge. They do that by disabling the engine’s air brakes and using only the independent brake (to stop the engines or engines) and “drag” everything off the bridge. Once the train can be walked or disabling location drag-found off the bridge, the problem then can be gotten to and fixed. If the power derails on such a bridge, well, I don’t know … Maybe someone calls a rescue helicopter … Now, let’s kind of ‘helicopter over to the Ranchero Rd. underpass … Continued in Part VII
Johnny
Dear K.P. and fellow members of the Forum:
If anyone is interested in a fascinating documentation of the Ranchero Road construction in Hesperia, CA, I recommend you try checking out the "Cajon Pass Main Page" and the section of it devoted to the construction of the overpass and new roadway with hundreds of photos and informative text:
http://www.trainmaster.ch/XC-11.htm
Contributor Gary C. Gray spent many, many months capturing the weekly changes to the site-- from the first days of the shoo-fly, to the laying of the piers, to the addition of the bridge decks, to the addition of the ballast and tracks, to the construction of the new roadway, even up to the final dedication ceremony! He and fellow contributors documented nearly every important detail in the various phases of heavy construction. In short, it is a thoroughly documented "crash course" in civil engineering (with trains thrown into the mix!).
During eighteen months of site visits, Gary became known to the work crews and was given unprecedented access. The result is an excellent record of this addition to the BNSF Transcon. I found all of it all highly informative and entertaining, and hope that followers of Cajon Pass railroading will also.
By the way, Gary documented that the new bridge was designed with a width to carry THREE tracks and built with enough re-bar and concrete to accommodate the locomotive weight of a THREE WAY MEET, should a third main be built through Hesperia...a tantalizing possibility!!
Best regards to all!!
--John
Wash, DC
Fire at Glen Helen
Around 4:00 P.M. Tuesday, September 24, 2013, a brush fire broke out in the Glen Helen area on the railroad west end of Cajon Pass, near Devore. Fire personnel, equipment, choppers, and winged aircraft swarmed to the site. At this point it is unknown if the fire will burn both northward and downward probably a half mile to BNSF’s Transcon in the Devore area.
The above photo looks northwestward toward Devore and the fire a couple of miles away, with the westbound cantilever signal bridge in view at the Verdemont three-track universal crossovers.
The REAL Reason for This Post
Much earlier in the day, on the way to check on the Colton Flyover in Colton, CA on Union Pacific’s Sunset Route, K.P. stopped in Devore around M.P. 71 and took many documenting photographs of the new, under construction overpass there. THAT one future overpass will have more of an effect on the triple-track line thereat than first meets the eye, as well as more of an effect at that one spot than the entire Subdivision. A post series with be forthcoming in a day or two (hopefully).
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