The New Overpass over CP VERDEMONT
San Bernardino, CA
Part “E” (of A-F)
Looking northwest, at two westbound trains continuing to be parked, one just light power.
Almost under the new bridge:
The light power finally headed westbound (rightward).
Continued in Part F
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part “F” (of A-F)
Some out of sequence views:
The two crossing gates STILL erected (before being taken down) as K.P. arrived on seen and parked, with the four-track signal bridge in the background.
The railroad east westbound cantilever structure from the elevated roadway just south of the overpass:
Those two trains: The road is Cajon Blvd.
The railroad west eastbound signal bridge from the new, higher roadway:
Now the forum knows what the triple-track looks like from above CP VERDEMONT, from the new Palm Ave. overpass.
This will end the series.
Press CTRL plus “+” to enlarge view, CTRL plus “-“ to reduce it.
A Hodgepodge Type Posting
Related to the Frost-Thorn Area of Victorville, CA
Part I (of I-VI)
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 the “natural crossover” area (M.P.39.1) was visited, and as expected, no track alterations were taking place, nor seemed planned for that matter. Nor was any roadway bridgework over the tracks in the works.
As seen above, Yates Rd. / Ridgecrest Rd., though, was having walling put up, most likely in conjunction with the roadway bridging construction of some sort to the east.
An overview of that area’s tracks (the natural crossover) was previously shown:
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-VI)
Just a thought about that natural crossover … It is not known if it is a new phenomenon or not, but as seen from these October 27, 2014 photos the natural crossover is showing signs of ground deterioration
How long the drainage piping has been in place is not known either, but if it rains for a month like it did in 1969, maybe the natural crossover could simply vanish!
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-VI)
If and when the triple-tracking continues eastward from the Martinez area on the east slope of Cajon Pass, there is some question as to what will happen at the natural crossover (M.P. 39.1) near Frost in the Victorville area. (See second photo, Part I)
Some have suggested that in the triple-tracking the natural crossover would be eliminated. There are several places to the east in California and Arizona where right-running is the most practical. Thus, unless those areas all will have a third-track laid, the natural crossover likely will stay.
K.P. has unofficially concluded that triple-tracking (when it resumes) will stop eastward progression somewhere WEST of the natural crossover, maybe (“maybe”) at a new CP, with CP FROST eliminated.
.
Possible Future CP EAST THORN East of M.P. 39.1
1 1----------------------------- ----- \ / \ / \ / / \ / /2 \ / / \ 2------------------------------ ----- / / /3 /-------
But, since nothing is currently happening triple-tracking-wise, the ‘wait and see’ game continues.
(Note: For those that are unfamiliar with this area, tracks so often keep their identities when they physically change sides. But at the BNSF natural crossover, the identities of the tracks change with Main 1 becoming Main 2 and Main 2 becoming Main 1 at the magical point of one track going over the other at M.P. 39.1.)
Operationally, there continues the historic bias of right running EAST of the natural crossover, and left running WEST of it.
Whoops, here we go again … Apparently one cannot now post two or more diagrams in the same post. So, we will do a Part III-A, etc.
Continued in Part III-A
Part III-A (of I-VI)
That east side right bias EASTWARD continues all the way to Winslow, AZ, where a right bias meets head-on a left bias! Westbound trains tend to go straight through the relief point (obviously with the crews changing), whereas eastbound trains tend to cross all the way over to the northernmost track, but any track can be used in either direction, and often do.
West End of Winslow, AZ
-------------------- / / /---<------------------------------------ \ / \ / \ /--->------------------------------------
Continued in Part III-B
Part III-B (of I-VI)
The other end …
East End of Winslow, AZ
------------------------------------>--- / \ / \ / \------------------------------------<--- / / /------------------
Continued in Part IV
Part IV (of I-VI)
Below are photos of Winslow, AZ in comparison to the natural crossover in Victorville.
From the west side of town, looking east, trains are so long now, as seen below, the tail end of eastbounds often hang into the CP, effectively tying things up and NOT allowing free movement and crossing over of other trains.
Another train has to stop because of the train ahead.
It had to stop anyway, because the Dispatcher had plotted a runaround!
The running around train took the northern track.
Continued in Part V
Part V (of I-VI)
More Winslow, AZ views:
A westbound:
The place crews change.
The east side of town where the three-tracks become two again: The far left signal is for a yard track entering the mainline.
Winslow, AZ was quite different many, many moons ago, as the present LEFT bias from the east continued west past Winslow all the way past Flagstaff and Williams. The magical change spot was AS the natural crossover at M.P. 39.1 in California, at a place a number of miles west of Ash Fork, AZ.
That Arizona natural crossover was eliminated in the 40 miles or so line relocation of 1959-1960. Our own forum contributor diningcar actually was involved in surveying that very line change!
For more about the Winslow, AZ area and between there and the Natural Crossover, see FOURTH Section for Link …
Continued in Part VI
Part VI (of I-VI)
Now that the Cajon Pass west slope is triple-tracked, with two mains on the 2.2% route, what about just eliminating the natural crossover all together? The problem with that is that the San Bernardino Intermodal pickup arrangement is clearly left running biased. Below, a pickup is made from Main 1 (2nd forefront track left to right, background left track). Photo looking north (eastbound) from the 5th Street overpass:
Setouts on the WEST side of the Intermodal complex are a bit simpler. Below, on the left a westbound train goes off the triple-track mains to set out its setout.
The DS is running both below trains against the normal biases, with the left eastbound train on Main 3 (normally westbound) and the right train (a westbound) is on Main 1 (going away from the camera, normally the eastbound track with train coming towards the camera.).
It is hoped the above gives everyone the tools to reason matters out so that they can conjecture an opinion of how things might me in the future relative to the natural crossover at M.P. 39.1 in the High Desert in the Victorville, CA area.
A “Second Section” follows.
Second Section
Not too far from the natural crossover at M.P. 39.1, in Hesperia in the M.P. 45.1 area, the Lucerne Valley Subdivision branches off to Cushenbury at the end of a 29.2 branch to the physical east
Currently (on posting date) on Page 1 of this forum is a thread entitled ‘Lifetime of an Unused Industrial Spur?’ This photo is shown on its second page:
It is from a grade crossing in the midst of trackage to nowhere.
It hardly has easy access to industries.
To review the mystery trackage, photos are viewable at the above mentioned thread via the link in the Third Section. A fourth Section follows that.
Third Section
Link to strange runaround track in Hesperia, CA.
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/243731.aspx
Well, linking does work again. Sorry. Just copy and paste it on the brower address line.
Continued in Fourth Section
Fourth Section
Link to the “Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates” thread, Page 184, for above and additional photos, begin at postings beginning at Monday, August 4, 2014.
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/120779.aspx?page=184
This linking doesn't work either ...
This will end the Frost-Thorn series.
Update as of Saturday, February 7, 2015
Part “A” (of A-C)
Activity by the Cajon Staging Area
Within the cleared land railroad east of CP CAJON, two truck trailers were parked, by where the 2.2% and 3% lines split and take different routes to Summit.
Track equipment was parked off the three mainlines.
It seems the equipment is only for common, typical maintenance that is carried out, but those two truck trailers seem unusual. It is wondered if the sheer scale of rail traffic is causing the CP switches to be replaced already.
Continued in Part B
Part “B” (of A-C)
The Free-Flowing Hindrance Is Gone!
Between Verdemont and Keenbrook
The Glen Helen Parkway (Devore Road) grade crossing in the Devore area is now closed and barricaded, and the overpass partially open with vehicles using two of the possibly five lanes.
Super strange is the slant of the overpass. As seen above, the left side of the overpass is higher than the right side. And that is NO illusion. When driving over the overpass one can see track area on the right (above pictured perspective), but cannot do so on the left. Seeing the difference in person is eerie!
The west side has a sidewalk cordoned off with two fences. The camera is traveling northbound.
Traveling southbound:
At ground level, the north side looking south: The ex-grade crossing is barricaded and the crossing gates and flashers gone.
Continued in Part C
Part “C” (of A-C)
The UP Palmdale Cutoff still has gates and flashers, and is a grade crossing still, if we can call a road with no traffic a grade crossing.
Looking northwest, railroad eastbound:
A southeast view with a slant railroad westbound:
K.P. is in the area from time to time, and will convey more information as the overpass EAST side is finished, and he has the time to hike up the bridge.
Every Road … and Highway 138
A new, orange sign states the unobvious. This is K.P.’s home turf, and even he didn’t know what the road was called. Google maps show almost all the roads in the immediate area are called Santa Fe Road. Great for convey emergency information to a 9-1-1 dispatcher!
Main 3’s first intermediate signals railroad east of CP CAJON is seen on the left of the above photo. On the right is a new semi-road. For about 15 miles to the west, towards Palmdale, Highway 138 is be revamped, from a two lane highway to a five lane one. Long overdue! Ten years ago Highway 138 was one of the deadliest highways in America. Presumably, that ramp area seen in the photo above is for a future westbound traffic lanes bridge over the BNSF Main 3.
While no further future triple-tracking plan is presently known, longtime visitors to Cajon Pass will soon be surprised at Highway 138 west of I-15 being widened.
A Humongous Pile of Concrete …
… and NOT Visiting Cajon Pass!
Part I (of I-II)
K.P. considers himself a local regarding Cajon Pass, so the weight of his judgments and assessments about the pass carries a little more weight than a casual visitor.
The I-15 Freeway is being rebuilt and widened, at least from Highway 138, all the way route-south to the Devore area, and a little beyond. My wife commutes regularly through Cajon Pass, and K.P. traverses it as necessary. For all practical purposes, it is a mess, and almost a disaster zone, and a place to avoid. Below, a wide angle of sorts of a log-jam type traffic flow (leftward, southbound, background lanes) existed with traffic moving perhaps 20 M.P.H.
Also, Highway 138 for about 15 miles to the west is in the early stages of being revamped, from a two-lane highway to a five-lane one.
Heavy truckers have basically demolished the slower lanes of I-15, hence those lanes are being rebuilt. A humongous pile of concrete is by Highway 138, and Main 3, the steep track between Cajon and Summit.
Part II (of I-II)
While gallivanting through the area (hiking around), some photos were taken of the area.
While Cajon Pass is a cool place to visit, right now it might be a place to avoid. The Mrs. has been getting home an hour to three hours late, and has learned to go eat or see a movie after work. Hopefully, all this will only last a few months, but who knows …
On the back burner, a review of the possible future triple-tracking of the east slope of Cajon Pass is being undertaken as time permits
The Glen Helen-Devore Overpass
Forum contributor mvs in the “Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates” mention the Glen Helen-Devore overpass being finished, and provided a link for those interested in reading about it.
http://www.sbsun.com/general-news/20150522/bridge-over-train-tracks-on-glen-helen-parkway-keeps-traffic-moving
About Triple-Tracking Martinez to Near the Natural Crossover
Triple-tracking Martinez to west of the ‘natural crossover’ near Frost probably won’t happen for years, maybe a decade or more. When it does happen, though, traffic volumes will probably be twenty to thirty trains per day more than today. And likely (“likely”) there will be no additional control points (CP’s) except west of the natural crossover with CP FROST eliminated.
Update as of Tuesday, June 2, 2015
Highway 138 and Piles of Sand
In passing over Main 3 on Highway 138 on the above date, piles of sand were now on the piles of chucks of cement roadway on the future westbound lanes alignment.
It is too early at this point in time to make a call if this is the future westbound down-ramp over Highway 138 or just a convenient place to pile up old freeway matter. NO similar ramping is yet by Mains 1 and 2.
Likely the future overpass over Main 3 (the steep 3% line) will have an opening for only one track. The tracks opening for Mains 1 and 2, whether for two or three tracks, could insinuate much for the future.
KP:
Any update on the piles of sand and concrete debris near Hwy 138? They are a curiosity, and, now that the summer has passed, I wonder what is occuring there.
--John
John Simpkins-Camp (9-25): Nightmare Pass
Yes, there is an update. The big pile is now two piles, broken chunks of old freeway, AND a separate sand-like material. Apparently, the pile of old, broken, big chunks of freeway is being ground down to powder to recycle it, presumably to be used on I-15 anew.
Driving the I-15 Freeway has been an absolute nightmare, with lane closures, zigzagging routes, and traffic all jammed up for hours and hours. Highway 138 that overpass-crosses I-15 in the heart of Cajon Pass is having a widening project going on now. So, Cajon Pass is a nightmare to drive through on two routes. I was through there yesterday, and was hoping to stop and get a few photos, but doing so was inadvisable because of safety concerns. (And that stopping idea was BEFORE your post!) Of course, this old geezer has been around the area long enough to know when traffic is very light and practically nonexistent. I may make a special trip to the pass during one on those times, and do so especially for you, John!
Hang in there. I’ll get to it eventually,
K.P.
PS: Yesterday, I was in Azusa and Los Angeles (via Cajon Pass) documenting a strange situation for the “L.A. Metro Gold Line Foothill Extension Updates” thread in the Transit forum. If you like weird things you might keep an eye on that thread in the next few days to a week. It is unreal what the old EAST-WEST route of the Super Chief (that went through Cajon Pass decades ago) is now direction-wise in Azusa. You may not believe it!
K. P. HarrierDriving the I-15 Freeway has been an absolute nightmare, with lane closures, zigzagging routes, and traffic all jammed up for hours and hours.
Does CalTrans still have the blinking sign boards warning drivers "60 MPH SPEED LIMIT STRICTLY ENFORCED" as those drivers are going by the signs at about 10 Mph? The missus got a big kick out of that last April. My reply: "Sixty? I'd be glad to be doing sixteen!"
ChuckCobleigh (9-26):
I’m afraid so, those 60 M.P.H. speed limit signs are still up.
But good news! At least I think …
The two-route detour lanes seem (“seem”) to be finished, so things may start to be getting better.
To All:
Concerning the manmade mountains (plural) of ex-freeway material in Cajon Pass, the Highway 138 / I-15 Freeway area was visited yesterday morning, Sunday, September 27, 2015, when there was less vehicle traffic, and that area’s ‘mountains’ were able to be photo documented.
A selection of the ‘mountains’ views are hoped to be posted in a few days.
In that upcoming posting, a tidbit on the free-flowing now of the triple-track line will be given.
Best,
Big Piles and Highways Construction
Status as of Sunday, September 27, 2015
Part “A” (of A-E)
Humongous piles of (1) a finer material (seems to be small rocks) and (2) broken-up big chucks of old freeway, are present in several places in Cajon Pass. The below spot is along Highway 138 between Mains 1 & 2 and Main 3.
On this early Sunday morning K.P. was expecting low traffic volumes and no problem parking. But, at a key location, someone had beaten K.P. in parking. (First photo) It wasn’t a railfan, but someone passing through had broken down. What is the chance of that happening and blocking a parking spot for K.P.?
Initially BNSF and UP were seemingly having a race, but the BNSF started winning!
While K.P. was onsite, BNSF trains were a constant feature, eastbound after eastbound on Main 1, and westbound after westbound on Main 2. Conspicuously absent was the use of Main 3, the steep 3% line.
With so many trains, one has to wonder why BNSF hasn’t triple-tracked the east slope of Cajon Pass yet.
Part “B” (of A-E)
WEST of those piles, on the north side of Highway 138 …
… is a power line structure.
On the south side, there is another power line structure in the way of widening.
As seen above, Caltrans is starting to grade that south side in the Highway 138 widening effort.
And, now a new power line structure is being put in!
Thus, the new, additional vehicle lanes to the west will be on the north side of Highway 138, but to the EAST the new roadway will be on the south side.
Part “C” (of A-E)
Just a short ways to the east, by the I-15 Freeway, another similar pile situation exists, this one with conveyer belts.
There’s a westbound, on the vertical wall area.
We now head back to that abandoned inoperable auto, and piping is on scene.
Continued in Part D
Part “D” (of A-E)
Another view by Highway 138, looking east, with that pile of grave (foreground) and big freeway chunks of cement in the near background. Highway 138 is in the far background heading up towards Summit.
A close-up of that large pile of small, gravel-like material:
Probably a mile or two to the west, Highway 138 has grading in place for widening, and barricading for some distance.
Continued in Part E
Part “E” (of A-E)
Thoughts to Ponder
Some miles to the west, between West Riverside and Highgrove, that area has been triple-tracked for some time, possibly for 20 years. In conjunction with the I-215 widening in the Grand Terrace area, THREE truss bridges (two spans each) were put over the I-215 Freeway. View looks south from the Barton Road overpass area.
But, from Highgrove eastward under that Barton Road roadway overpass in the Grand Terrace area, over the Santa Ana River crossing, and on to Colton the line is only two-tracks. A key obstacle in the way is the 1936-built narrow Barton Road roadway overpass.
Thus, there is only about two or three miles of two-tracks in that Grand Terrace-Colton area that stand in the way of the whole West Riverside all the way to Martinez area on the east slope of Cajon Pass from being all triple-track.
Perhaps (“perhaps”) BNSF is waiting for the resolution of problems in the Grand Terrace-Colton area (like a two-track opening under the Barton Road bridge while a three-track opening is needed), before triple-tracking the east slope between Martinez to the Natural Crossover area (M.P. 39.1), where the area of the east slope grade basically begins.
Another complication is in that West Riverside to Highgrove area in near future with the addition of about 12 Metrolink commuter trains (Main 3 only) when the Perris Valley Line (Riverside-Perris) opens. Unless the trackwork in that West Riverside-Highgrove stretch is revamped, conflicts will result, and the free-flowing of BNSF trains will be hindered.
Reportedly, Grand Terrace is trying to redirect approved Federal funds to build a replacement bridge over the BNSF, in view that a new UP bridge is no longer needed because of the Colton Flyover and the rerouting of the Riverside Industrial Lead track. If the city powers that be are successful, tripling tracking the two miles or so might be nearer than previously thought.
In the meantime, all that is happening in Cajon Pass is the I-15 Freeway rebuilding, and widening of the Highway 138, the latter having minimal effect on the free-flowing of the Transcon tracks.
This will end of series.
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