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What happened to the lost art of engineers waving? Locked

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Posted by Willy2 on Friday, July 27, 2007 11:47 AM
I can understand why people on both sides of this issue are frustrated. What I don't understand is why such hatred seems to be flowing from nearly everyone in this thread. I don't think it was meant to bring about such anger. This is my final post on this topic. Keep on fighting if you want, but I'm done with this foolishness.

Willy

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Posted by TimChgo9 on Friday, July 27, 2007 12:13 PM

 Mookie wrote:
It is a simple subject.  So that lets those of us with simple minds participate, those with no railroad experience, those with railroad experience, those of us that are opinionated and those that aren't.  It isn't a true "railroad topic" - it is a human interest topic.  And while we have a few questionables, I think we all fall in that category....

Well, I thought I was done, but Mookie, you have motivated me to add some more, ma'am Smile [:)](BTW I didn't mean to infer that anyone here has a simple mind....unless I am referring to myself..)

The problem I am having with this thread is the fact that there are those who act mortally offended if they don't get a wave.  LC, and a couple of other railroaders expressed very good reasons why they don't wave, or don't wave every time... for Pete's sake these guys are working and it seems that some others here just don't get it.   Waves are a bonus in my opinion, and if I don't get one, that's fine too. My kids usually get one when they are with me, but, even if they don't I don't think they notice.  Besides that, when I am out at the tracks, I am generally spending time with my kids, and I am not there to get a wave from the engineer

The bottom line here is, there was a question, an explanation, and then; the vitriol..... which was really unnecessary...  Did I throw in my .02?  of course, but then, I get aggravated with conversations/forum threads where no one seems to be listening/reading, and not getting the point.   When that happens, all other conversation,or contributions to the discussion/thread become almost superfluous as certain participants only seem to want to focus the slight, perceived or real, and on the other side, the participants wind up on the defensive against what they perceive is an uwarranted assault on their job, which is tantamout to an assault on their character. To that end, the insults, and the flames start, and the whole thread becomes pointless.  Why engineers wave, or don't wave was pretty much settled in the first couple of posts, in my opinion.  

"Chairman of the Awkward Squad" "We live in an amazing, amazing world that is just wasted on the biggest generation of spoiled idiots." Flashing red lights are a warning.....heed it. " I don't give a hoot about what people have to say, I'm laughing as I'm analyzed" What if the "hokey pokey" is what it's all about?? View photos at: http://www.eyefetch.com/profile.aspx?user=timChgo9
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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 27, 2007 2:18 PM

It can also be awkward to give a wave if the window is closed. A lot easier when the windows are open.  Now why don't we always open the window?  A few reasons:

 1. A/C.  The air conditioner on most units is not the greatest.  So by opening the windows, you release the cold.  Selfish?  Yeah, sure.  But it is our work environment. 

2. Noise.  Going around a curve you get the nice screeching noise.   Or I suspect you hang near a road crossing.  I know most crews I've been with shut the windows when approaching crossings.  The reason is simple; we really do not feel like listening to the bell and horn breaking our ear drums.  Sometimes we are forced to, depending on the engine, horn location, AC, etc... but this is our work environment, and we do like to keep it a little more sensible.  Nor do we need the wind noise at all times - it can make it hard to hear the radio.

3. If there's another train coming alongside us - I close the window.  I do not need a fresh coat of coal dust or dirt on my person.

4. Some windows are a pain to open.  

5. Sometiems, I just don't feel like opening the window.  

The argument on this thread came from people who think just because a railroader doesn't return a wave - it means that railroader is unfit to be a railroader. 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Railfan1 on Friday, July 27, 2007 3:24 PM
Wow, 153 replies. Can we end it here? Railroad crews, If you want to wave, wave. If you don't want to/not able to, don't wave. Railfans ( including myself), the crews, just like anyone else, have a job to do. The railroad crews are working to provide for their families just like any other hardworking American. The are not here for our entertainment.If you have an interest in watching and taking pictures of trains that is all well and good but it just happens to be a JOB for the men and women at the controls which includes staying up for long periods of time without sleep and being incharge of a 120 car coal train with a three locomotive consist.I'm sure it is not their idea of FUN. Can't we just get back to the fact that we are all here because we enjoy railroading either as an employee or a spectator?
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 27, 2007 3:32 PM

I live right on UP's double track mainline in Iowa.  Sometime they wave and sometimes they don't.  I don't wave first as these guys are working and have a job to do and I don't want to be responsible for anything bad happening due to me distracting someone driving thousands of tons of fatal metal.  They should not be worried about hurting feelings by not waving to people as they should be looking forward and doing their job.

 But they have been know to scare the hell out of me.  My property butts right to the tracks and they seem to love it when I'm mowing.  They'll wait till they are right behind me then they lay on the horn.  I come right out of my skin and usually kill the mower.

Now if you want to complain about a real problem how about the police.  Shoot those guys get paid decent and by the taxpayers and they hardly ever wave.  Even in this small town.  Leave those guys working alone and let them do their jobs.

 

Jeremy

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Posted by TimChgo9 on Friday, July 27, 2007 3:32 PM

 Railfan1 wrote:
Wow, 153 replies. Can we end it here? Railroad crews, If you want to wave, wave. If you don't want to/not able to, don't wave. Railfans ( including myself), the crews, just like anyone else, have a job to do. The railroad crews are working to provide for their families just like any other hardworking American. The are not here for our entertainment.If you have an interest in watching and taking pictures of trains that is all well and good but it just happens to be a JOB for the men and women at the controls which includes staying up for long periods of time without sleep and being incharge of a 120 car coal train with a three locomotive consist.I'm sure it is not their idea of FUN. Can't we just get back to the fact that we are all here because we enjoy railroading either as an employee or a spectator?

Sign - Ditto [#ditto]Sign - Ditto [#ditto]  I don't think it could have been said any better....

 

"Chairman of the Awkward Squad" "We live in an amazing, amazing world that is just wasted on the biggest generation of spoiled idiots." Flashing red lights are a warning.....heed it. " I don't give a hoot about what people have to say, I'm laughing as I'm analyzed" What if the "hokey pokey" is what it's all about?? View photos at: http://www.eyefetch.com/profile.aspx?user=timChgo9
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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, July 27, 2007 3:40 PM

This makes 155 posts..Thankfully 99% of NS,CSX,WE and CFE crews I wave at returns the wave.I had crews to toss down employee time tables,cold water,old train consist,old track forms,old work orders, and other items to include a pair of safety glasses...I have even been given a short cab tour.Big Smile [:D]Thumbs Up [tup]

 

As far as the job goes its just that a job that is like none other..

Larry

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Posted by nanaimo73 on Friday, July 27, 2007 3:41 PM
Dale
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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, July 27, 2007 3:47 PM
Thats cute a dancing lock.Big Smile [:D] What will back seat moderators think of next?? LOL! Big Smile [:D]Big Smile [:D]Clown [:o)]

Larry

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Summerset Ry.


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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, July 27, 2007 3:54 PM
Wabash1,You can call the cops till the cows come home..99.9% of the time they will just drive by and wave..After all there is no laws being broken therefore they won't bother.Even a railroad cop can't do much if you are on public property except grin and bear it or take the risk of being sued for harassment or profiling..

Larry

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Posted by wctransfer on Friday, July 27, 2007 3:58 PM

LOL! The banana is old news I guess!

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 27, 2007 4:07 PM
 wctransfer wrote:

LOL! The banana is old news I guess!

 

The banana didn't wave - so it was fired.  Wink [;)]

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, July 27, 2007 4:08 PM
I don't know, I was at the GNRHS day at the MN Transportation Museum last Friday, which is right along the BNSF mainline (it's in the old GN Jackson St. Roundhouse). A BNSF train came by and when one of our guys waved at him the engineer waved back. Course living along the Soo Line years back you had time to say 'hi' and have a little conversation with the guys in the caboose as they trundled past as a leisurely pace. Smile [:)]
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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, July 27, 2007 4:18 PM
 zugmann wrote:
 wctransfer wrote:

LOL! The banana is old news I guess!

 

The banana didn't wave - so it was fired.  Wink [;)]

 

Oh thats what happen? I was told he was caught waving and was fired.

Larry

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Summerset Ry.


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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 27, 2007 4:22 PM
 BRAKIE wrote:

Oh thats what happen? I was told he was caught waving and was fired.

 

Yeah, but the banana is now A-PEELING....

 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Railfan1 on Friday, July 27, 2007 4:30 PM

 Railfan1 wrote:
Wow, 153 replies. Can we end it here?

Guess not.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 27, 2007 4:42 PM
 zugmann wrote:
 BRAKIE wrote:

Oh thats what happen? I was told he was caught waving and was fired.

 

Yeah, but the banana is now A-PEELING....

 

 

Thats just peachy.

Must not carrot all about the seriousness of waving.

But lettuce not quibble or a wave or two.

 

 

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Posted by Limitedclear on Friday, July 27, 2007 5:07 PM

I can see I missed a lot, NOT...

Hey, I have plenty of good lookin' gals in bikinis waving to me while I am holding the coal job on the lakeshore. I even have one brakeman who brings expensive binocs with him to watch from the 2d unit...

As far as calling the cops go I'll usually only go that route if you are obviously violating the law. Remember I have big brother with me (tv camera) on the nose of the loco most times so proving your misdeeds in court is no problem.

LC

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Posted by Limitedclear on Friday, July 27, 2007 5:09 PM

Hey CSX Eng, Zug and RRKen, what kind of stencil would look good on a cab for trespassers? Perhaps a Hamburglar stencil? Or a We BLO wolf?

LC

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Posted by Erie Lackawanna on Friday, July 27, 2007 5:35 PM

Wow!  What a thread!  About hand waving?

Nothing's changed from my perspective.  Thirty years ago if you waved, half the guys waved back at you, half didn't.  Some of those who didn't would give you a dirty look.

It's exactly the same today. 

Personally, I do wave all the time... not because I need a wave back, but because I want the engineer to know that I'm a friendly.

Charles Freericks
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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Friday, July 27, 2007 5:47 PM

Some of the people on this thread seem like there really tired or drunk because some of the remarks on here are for the stupidest reasons.

Anywho, I support railroad employees. Don't wave if you have a job to do.

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Posted by Soo 6604 on Friday, July 27, 2007 6:02 PM

Can we get this to a page 10? That would be kinda cool. NOT!

Paul

ps. I'll be the 6'6" 250lb guy with the 3 cameras, camcorder on a tripod, and waving like a school girl going away on summer camp for 3 weeks in Neenah Wi. If any engineers wave, they will receive $50 either at Point or FDL

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 27, 2007 6:03 PM
 Willy2 wrote:

 railroadjj wrote:
After all the idiots that are out at the crossing and anywhere inbetween them, there are a lot of peopl that throw rocks, bricks and everything else at us train crews.  I personally do not wave for that reason.  If we are stopped, or something I might come down and talk with you until we are ready to go.  Even the videos shown in class, say not to wave and keep your mind on your work.

That seems a little harsh, if you ask me. There are just as many (if not more) good people trackside as there are bad people. Is there always work you're doing that would make it unsafe to look up for three seconds and wave?

I always wave and I almost always get a wave back if the engineer or conductor is looking. I figure that seeing someone smiling and waving might brighten the crews' day a bit.

Well, from the railroaders stand point (or my stand point being a railroader) there are a lot of people out at the tracks.  Most from what I have seen are very rude, mean, and throw objects sucks a rocks, spikes that are laying about, and even shout.  So are just dumb kids that dont know any better due to the parents not teaching them about how dangerous trains are.  Me personally I think every school distric at least here in the US, should bring in Operation Life Saver.  These kids need to see what can happen, and what happens everyday.  Now there are some adults that are good, and wave, video tape, and take pictures.  But then you have adults that walk the tracks, and when the conductor leans out the window to warm them by yelling over the Engine noise, then they throw a brick and just about kill the man. Just for being kind and trying to dave his life.  Now you tell me why should we wave and take a risk of life or death.  I mean you know if you are out the day after day and the crew starts to know your face, fine I will wave everytime, but how often does the same crew see you there, unless you are chasing a shortline.  BTW the Conductor getting hit with the brick is a true story, not even a year old.  It happened in South Dallas, on the UP Main line.

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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Friday, July 27, 2007 6:07 PM
 Soo 6604 wrote:

Can we get this to a page 10? That would be kinda cool. NOT!

Paul

ps. I'll be the 6'6" 250lb guy with the 3 cameras, camcorder on a tripod, and waving like a school girl going away on summer camp for 3 weeks in Neenah Wi. If any engineers wave, they will receive $50 either at Point or FDL

Another Wisconsin Railfan?

Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by CopCarSS on Friday, July 27, 2007 6:10 PM

 Soo 6604 wrote:
Can we get this to a page 10? That would be kinda cool. NOT!

I dunno...we haven't had a thread this controversial in awhile, and it's always an interesting excercise in forum dynamics when we do. Besides, a thread like this can tell a lot not only about participant interplay, but about the individuals themselves. There's some fresher faces that I learned a lot about because of this thread.

Additionally, I don't think it really ever got that out of hand. I remember some Amtrak discussions that degenerated a lot quicker and a lot farther than this one ever will.

We should of set up the popcorn machine. It was definately a popcorn thread. You still have that around somewhere, Chad?

-Chris
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Posted by Soo 6604 on Friday, July 27, 2007 6:10 PM
Appleton!
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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Friday, July 27, 2007 6:30 PM
I'm near Milwaukee (Muskego).
Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by Willy2 on Friday, July 27, 2007 6:43 PM
 railroadjj wrote:
 Willy2 wrote:

 railroadjj wrote:
After all the idiots that are out at the crossing and anywhere inbetween them, there are a lot of peopl that throw rocks, bricks and everything else at us train crews.  I personally do not wave for that reason.  If we are stopped, or something I might come down and talk with you until we are ready to go.  Even the videos shown in class, say not to wave and keep your mind on your work.

That seems a little harsh, if you ask me. There are just as many (if not more) good people trackside as there are bad people. Is there always work you're doing that would make it unsafe to look up for three seconds and wave?

I always wave and I almost always get a wave back if the engineer or conductor is looking. I figure that seeing someone smiling and waving might brighten the crews' day a bit.

Well, from the railroaders stand point (or my stand point being a railroader) there are a lot of people out at the tracks.  Most from what I have seen are very rude, mean, and throw objects sucks a rocks, spikes that are laying about, and even shout.  So are just dumb kids that dont know any better due to the parents not teaching them about how dangerous trains are.  Me personally I think every school distric at least here in the US, should bring in Operation Life Saver.  These kids need to see what can happen, and what happens everyday.  Now there are some adults that are good, and wave, video tape, and take pictures.  But then you have adults that walk the tracks, and when the conductor leans out the window to warm them by yelling over the Engine noise, then they throw a brick and just about kill the man. Just for being kind and trying to dave his life.  Now you tell me why should we wave and take a risk of life or death.  I mean you know if you are out the day after day and the crew starts to know your face, fine I will wave everytime, but how often does the same crew see you there, unless you are chasing a shortline.  BTW the Conductor getting hit with the brick is a true story, not even a year old.  It happened in South Dallas, on the UP Main line.

I respect your decision to not wave to people except for those you see frequently. I never said that I didn't. If I came across as being critical earlier, then I apologize. In case you didn't read the last eight pages of this topic, I pretty much support you and the other engineers on this issue. I just wanted to make a point in my first post and that was to point out that not everyone is going to throw a brick at you.

Now we're one post closer to making 10 pages! Big Smile [:D]

Willy

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Posted by MilwaukeeRoad on Friday, July 27, 2007 6:49 PM
Ridiculous 10.
Alex Czajkowski
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, July 27, 2007 7:05 PM
     I'll go out on a limb here,and say that I don't think an Amtrak engineer has ever waved at anybody in my whole entire state.Mischief [:-,]

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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