What happened to the lost art of engineers waving?

[Anonymous]

Both Zugman and LimitedClear have stated excellent cases.

They are the professionals who run over the road.  Let them do their job without you getting into a snit over why they would not wave at you.

In short:  Let them do their job, and all your foamers, make sure you stay out of harm's way when a train is passing by.

 

 

[Limitedclear]

An engineer who has to time observe people trackside and make a determination as to whether they are on the railroad's property and represent a threat (terrorist or otherwise) to his train, as we've been told in this thread, also has the time to lift his hand to return a friendly wave.

Unless he's purposely being a jerk.

Not necessarily on all counts. If I am observing with my eyes and have one hand on the automatic brake handle and the other next to the horn in case you get in front of my train so I can use the horn to warn you off or apply the train brakes it doesn't leave me with a free hand to open the window and wave at you, does it?!

Besides, you strike me as the kid with the brick anyhow, or perhaps that's just a BIG chip on your shoulder...

Don't criticize until you try to run a mile in our shoes...

LC

I'm not a kid and never have hoisted a brick. I'm fascinated to see that when someone suggests you display some common courtesy while doing your job, you suddenly throw out insults.

Says a lot about what kind of person you are.

The sniveling juvenile attitude you have tells me a LOT about what kind of person you are. Whether you are a child or not, you act like a big baby. Don't try to make me feel guilty for not waving to you or anybody else. If I want to wave and I don't have anything else needing my attention then I'll wave, otherwise, forget it. I owe you nothing.

Get over yourself. And you wonder why railroaders are leery of railfans...sheesh...

LC 

This thread gives the public a good look at the kind of people who work for railroads. And it ain't flattering.

People who don't like their photos taken after they've been up running a train for 10+ hours, people who need to handle heavy machinery and look out for all the jokers that get thrown at us, people who have a job where a moments inattention can cause someone their life or limb, people who spend more then half their time away from their family,  people who have more important things to think about and do than entertain someone who enjoys watching trains...

THOSE PEOPLE!!

I chose this life, I'm not a salesman, a customer service rep, puiblic relations person, advertising rep, a nurse, doctor or even a lawyer (ok perhaps sometimes) which means I don't have to perform public relations functions while I'm on company property engaged in the performance of my duties which focus on safe and efficient transportation of goods. I don't wear a nifty uniform nor do I often have time to spend time primping in front of a mirror to look good for the great unwashed. Have you looked at factory workers, truck drivers, or others engaged in blue collar occupations? Most wouldn't wave at you either. Of course, you aren't going to get into their workplaces anyhow. Don't try to make me feel guilty for not complying with YOUR standard of behavior. You don't have the right.

LC 

[Midnight Railroader]

I tried to be civil - explaining why sometimes we don't wave.  I was instantly met with a gondola load of crap.

Really? Because here's what I read you saying:

"I love the attitude shown by some on here....  wah, wah, I deserve a wave.   Get real, people.  There's a lot to do in the locomotive.  Sometimes that means the crew is too busy to give a wave.  Other times, the crew may just not see you, or see you too late.  Sometimes railfans look so goofy, the free hand is needed to stifle laughter."

I don't find insults to be civil. If it is a 'two-way street' as you said, then you got what you deserved.

[zugmann]

Midnight, you are beating a dead horse.  And that beating makes you look silly, obnoxious, and a spoiled brat.  Get over yourself. 

 

I think we need to call the Waaaaaaaaaahmbulance for you.

 

PS>> my first response was civil with a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor as I am a railfan myself (would I be here, otherwise?).  I'm sorry if that offended your precious little ego. 

[Midnight Railroader]

People who don't like their photos taken after they've been up running a train for 10+ hours, people who need to handle heavy machinery and look out for all the jokers that get thrown at us, people who have a job where a moments inattention can cause someone their life or limb, people who spend more then half their time away from their family,  people who have more important things to think about and do than entertain someone who enjoys watching trains...

THOSE PEOPLE!!

I chose this life

Then quit complaining about it.

[Midnight Railroader]

Midnight, you are beating a dead horse. 

True. If you think you've been civil, then there's not much more to be said, except, if this is such a "silly" hobby, why do you bother to hang around on this board with people who practice it?

[zugmann]

Read my post again.  The humor was tongue-in-cheek.  Geez, get a sense of humor already.   I have too stodd out there looking like a goofball. The difference is that I KNOW how much of goofball I look. 

 

You are the ones making railfans look like a bunch of anti-railroad whiners.  Luckily I know better.

[Limitedclear]

Magicman710:

I thought that Zugmann and Limitedclear both had very reasonable responses to your question, so I don't understand why you're fighting with them. I thought they both had very good reasoning for when they do wave and for when they don't.

You act like you never get a wave from an engineer or conductor. Where you live, the railroaders must be a lot different than they are here in Nebraska and Iowa. They almost always seem friendly here.

I was in Princeton, Illinois on Monday and saw five trains. I got a wave from every engineer, despite the fact that three of the five trains were approaching a grade crossing and the engineer was busy blowing the horn. In fact, the engineer on Amtrak waved not only to me, but to everyone on the platform.

I seem to have come to the conclusion that there are many very nice railroaders out there. If you don't get a wave from everyone, then tough luck. Chances are the next one will wave.

Willy -

Thanks to you and others of similar mind. I know that not everyone out there is an entitlement railfan...

I still remember what it was like to be a kid waving at a train...

LC

[Limitedclear]

People who don't like their photos taken after they've been up running a train for 10+ hours, people who need to handle heavy machinery and look out for all the jokers that get thrown at us, people who have a job where a moments inattention can cause someone their life or limb, people who spend more then half their time away from their family,  people who have more important things to think about and do than entertain someone who enjoys watching trains...

THOSE PEOPLE!!

I chose this life

Then quit complaining about it.

I'm not complaining about the life. I'm telling you to BUZZ OFF.

LC

[csmith9474]

Zugmann:

The foamerfighters looks alright. I might stop in with a beer.

[zugmann]

I'll second what limtiedclear said.  I know the majority of railfans are decent folks, and I do share the hobby with them. 

But for the rest - give us a break.  If not getting a wave once in awhile ruins your life, may I suggest a rope dealer I know?

[Limitedclear]

I tried to be civil - explaining why sometimes we don't wave.  I was instantly met with a gondola load of crap.

Really? Because here's what I read you saying:

"I love the attitude shown by some on here....  wah, wah, I deserve a wave.   Get real, people.  There's a lot to do in the locomotive.  Sometimes that means the crew is too busy to give a wave.  Other times, the crew may just not see you, or see you too late.  Sometimes railfans look so goofy, the free hand is needed to stifle laughter."

I don't find insults to be civil. If it is a 'two-way street' as you said, then you got what you deserved.

For someone who is SO grown up the boy scout wolf (gives new meaning to "WE BLO" doesn't it) adds a nice touch. And Zug is right, a LOT of the foamers I see look absolutely comical, but that alone won't stop me from waving. That takes a real genius like, ohhhh, say. YOU!

LC

[zugmann]

Zugmann:

The foamerfighters looks alright. I might stop in with a beer.

 

You're always welcomed... 

[Midnight Railroader]

People who don't like their photos taken after they've been up running a train for 10+ hours, people who need to handle heavy machinery and look out for all the jokers that get thrown at us, people who have a job where a moments inattention can cause someone their life or limb, people who spend more then half their time away from their family,  people who have more important things to think about and do than entertain someone who enjoys watching trains...

THOSE PEOPLE!!

I chose this life

Then quit complaining about it.

I'm not complaining about the life. I'm telling you to BUZZ OFF.

LC

Not gonna happen.

[Midnight Railroader]

I tried to be civil - explaining why sometimes we don't wave.  I was instantly met with a gondola load of crap.

Really? Because here's what I read you saying:

"I love the attitude shown by some on here....  wah, wah, I deserve a wave.   Get real, people.  There's a lot to do in the locomotive.  Sometimes that means the crew is too busy to give a wave.  Other times, the crew may just not see you, or see you too late.  Sometimes railfans look so goofy, the free hand is needed to stifle laughter."

I don't find insults to be civil. If it is a 'two-way street' as you said, then you got what you deserved.

For someone who is SO grown up the boy scout wolf (gives new meaning to "WE BLO" doesn't it) adds a nice touch.

Also a nice touch that you recognized it.

[zugmann]

Here you go, midnight - a big ol' wave from me.  

 

[Midnight Railroader]

Here you go, midnight - a big ol' wave from me.  

 

Thanks!

You guys do a job (with a load of responsibilty) most people wouldn't be able to handle.

I know that, and I appreciate it.

Sorry for the horse-beating.

[zugmann]

Hey - no harm, no foul.  I just think at times we can forget that in those cabs are real people.  Just like there's real people in police cars, airliners, trucks, factories, etc. etc.

 

 

[Midnight Railroader]

THAT may be the real "take-away" message of this thread.

[csxengineer98]

The Rules of Engineer waving:

1. If you are a pretty girl I will wave. (especially if you flash me...lol...)

2. If you are a kid (under 10 or so) I will wave to you.

3. If you look ok and are staying back from the ROW I may wave to you.

4. If I am busy running the train chances are pretty good that I have my hands on the control stand and I won't wave to you no matter who you are.

5. If you look questionable, I will call the cops.

6. If you look like a trespasser or a security risk I will call the cops.

7. If you point anything at me I will close the window and call the cops.

8. If it is a hot day and the A/C on the locomotive is actually working I won't open the window.

9. If I am on the radio or watching a hand signal from my crew I won't wave or pay attention to you.

10. If I'm not too busy I may even have time to chat with you.

LC

lol..im with you excpet for rule 1...with me..not only a wave..but a few happy blasts of the horn with it!! lol

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

"No; doing the job comes first.  Courtesy is second.

Go stand by the highway and wave at all the cars and trucks.  See how many wave back.  See how many use more than one finger.  Railroading isn't super-happy-fun-time.  It is work."

 

Pure gold, Zlugger. I'm glad someone finally put it like that. Midnight Railroader, you need to find better things to get bent out of shape about, bud. If you've spent so much time in a locomotive cab as you claim, you should understand the importance of keeping your eyes and mind on the game. Form A's and B's, signals, conductor log entries, defect detectors, and the errant trespasser come at you fast when you're rolling along at 60+ MPH. Add to that the fact that, as many have already pointed out, the air conditioning is going, the window's going to be closed. I don't know about the other rails out there, but the last thing on my list of priorities is opening the window, letting out the cold air and having my sh1t scattered all over the desk. Come on now, that just don't cut it. Anyhoo, lighten up a little and see this as the industry it is. It's not all about sunny skies, smiling faces, and for God's sake, waving.

[morseman]

To any NS engineers on the line passing through Cleona PA (Near Lebanon) who waves to me.        I am the older gentleman with my small white dog who stands well back from the track.       I never initiate the wave, but many of you recognize me and give me a great wave which I return.     Thank you friends for making my day.

[Soo 6604]

I drive to work everyday and after work, I drive home. I drive a garbage truck during the day for up to 12 hours on some. When I'm pulling up to someones driveway with a rider on the back of the truck, kids running all over the place, someone trying to pull out of the driveway trying to beat me to the road, traffic trying to go around from behind, in front, the sides. Making sure that when I slow that my picker gets off the truck alright. Watching him in the mirror for any problems or hand signals for help or questions. I got nothing from him. I relax for 7-12 seconds. In that time, I look for where the kids are, traffic, pets. I glance at the mirror, the picker is about ready to go, just about to mount the truck. I do a 180 degree where everything and everyone is at. Look at the mirror again, he is on.....i gun it (slower than a 16,000 ton coal train) and take off. Notice that the kids are doing the ole "honk the horn" pulling of the arm, I give a long blast. Home owners (customers) wave, I wave back, even the picker gives a wave one handed. Now repeat up to 50-60 times out of 350-800 stops a day. Some stops are easy as jumping off and getting back on within 5 seconds. (the above happened to me today at about 15 stops out of the 630 or so stops)

Going down the road, jogger waves, wave back with a short blast of the horn. I know a simple wave or even a short blast of the horn makes some peoples day. For myself, I like the feeling of being reconized on doing my job. And yes, we do have drivers at work that don't wave at all, even at thier own fellow employees. You just learn not to wave. One gets used to it.

Looking at what my day is like, it can alomst resemble a RRers day of constantly watching out for the unexpected i.e. kids, traffic trying to beat you, picker mounting/dismounting the truck.

For us, Saftey comes first, then the job and courtesy is a bonus.

 

Paul

ps. I don't even want to get into picking garbage on a busy 2-lane hiway during morning rush hour

[Midnight Railroader]

"No; doing the job comes first.  Courtesy is second.

Go stand by the highway and wave at all the cars and trucks.  See how many wave back.  See how many use more than one finger.  Railroading isn't super-happy-fun-time.  It is work."

 

Pure gold, Zlugger. I'm glad someone finally put it like that. Midnight Railroader, you need to find better things to get bent out of shape about, bud. If you've spent so much time in a locomotive cab as you claim, you should understand the importance of keeping your eyes and mind on the game. Form A's and B's, signals, conductor log entries, defect detectors, and the errant trespasser come at you fast when you're rolling along at 60+ MPH. Add to that the fact that, as many have already pointed out, the air conditioning is going, the window's going to be closed. I don't know about the other rails out there, but the last thing on my list of priorities is opening the window, letting out the cold air and having my sh1t scattered all over the desk. Come on now, that just don't cut it. Anyhoo, lighten up a little and see this as the industry it is. It's not all about sunny skies, smiling faces, and for God's sake, waving.

Welcome to the board.

[RRKen]

I got every stupid manager for states around trying to fire me, I got new hired trainmen who have not a clue so I have to do my job and theirs, and you expect me to wave?    Get real.   Unless I know you, give me a good reason why?   So you can take my picture?    I got enough photos of me thanks.   And they are probably better quality than phoamer photos.

[enr2099]

What I want to know is why these people think it is their god-given right to have us wave back??

If I'm not doing anything I will wave back. But after reading some of the posts on here by these whiners why should I bother? If these people just whine and complain all the time and threaten to turn me in because I don't wave, why should I wave at you? Leave me and my crew alone and let us do our job!

[cr6479]

i wave to CSX and Rochester Southern engineers when they are not busy. still i don't do it all the time. i just let them do their job.

[wctransfer]

Ya, guys that work the hump remind me of this also. Not much more than sleep, newspaper, and the occasional movement of the throttle out of notch 3.

Yes, railroading is work, but you say it like work is supposed to always be unpleasant. Some people hate their job, some love it. Hard work can be fun, and can be exhausting. If you broke 2 knuckles already, I wouldnt be in the best mood either. Kind of like kids asking for autographs after you just lost the game in overtime.

Waves dont really matter to me, but its nice to get. They have a job to do, Im there to have a good time, If they arent having the best day/night, I wont be a little cry baby about it.

Alec

[wctransfer]

Get em' Ken! Stupid foamers anyways...

Alec

Pssst (SARCASM)