wctransfer wrote: Please now, lets all kiss and make up
Only if the other party involved in said kiss conforms to LC's first rule of waving!
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
I dont feel people should gang up on magicman. A few people on here just cant understand both sides of the situation (a minute one at that, maybe more a speedbump at most). Some people love waving and some people hate waving. Please now, lets all kiss and make up (and MAYBE wave? )
Now, on to the real issues, like why engineers dont throw you a hot dinner anymore....
There is a lot of acrimony here between operators and those who feel they have been slighted to an extent. I feel that it must be a misunderstanding borne of the language and the lack of experience between the two "camps" about what the other side must do/not do by virtue of their job requirements at the moments when the return of the salutation is not forthcoming.
Too bad, because we all have an interest in trains, what they do, and how they do it.
Personally, I wave, or nod, or say hello to people who make eye contact with me. Most often, they give some sign of recognition or acknowledgment for my initiating the greeting. Some turn away their eyes and pass on. What matters to me is that I treated them with respect and dignity as all humans ought to do to each other. Their own behaviours are their choices. It is not really fruitful to judge unless I can somehow slip under their skin and learn what troubles them that day.
A friendly smile goes a long way. Even if the other deigns not to return the smile, I can hope that he/she feels better than they did before our passing. In turn, I come away feeling better about myself....rarely a bad thing.
Ok, to any engineer or crew member here that feels affended to what I said, Im sorry. The only reason I created this thread is because less engineers are waving these days, that the only reason. Some people on here have made this into an argument on whether engieers should wave or not, thats not what I wanted. I just wanted to ask why they dont wave anymore.
Thanks,
Grayson
"Lionel trains are the standard of the world" - Jousha Lionel Cowen
deepspire wrote:To have a wave not returned is akin to extending your hand for a handshake and having that hand ignored. The perception is its more of a negative reflection on the crewman's character than anything, especially when they just look at you. Rude, perhaps. But its not the end of the world, and certainly nothing to get upset over. Just makes them look like miserable people who hate their jobs. Indeed, its true that years ago crews seemed more friendly.
I don't detect a change in the "friendliness" of train crews at all... Refer back to one of my earlier posts... The railroad people I have dealt with over the years have been at the least courteous and at the most pretty damned nice.
You are right about the handshake, but, then in a one on one social situation, that would be exceedingly rude...HOWEVER, stading along the ROW is NOT a social situation... I wouldn't know if a railroad employee hates his job or not if he doesn't wave, all I know is, is he's working and he might be busy..
Oh my God..... is this ever going to end????
WHO CARES IF YOU GET A WAVE OR NOT!!!!!
JUST TAKE YOUR PICTURES, WATCH THE TRAINS AND HAVE FUN!!!
It's not about customer service, it's not about being "friendly" it's just a simple courtesy,and if the crew doesn't see you, doesn't care, or is doing something else while you are waving at them, and can't return your gesture....what difference does it make?????
I don't always get waved at, and I don't care.... I know they are working, and they have got their hands full, I am not going to get upset......... I am just happy to be out, watching trains, taking pictures, and sharing a good time with my kids.....which is what it is all about...
You know, to be brutally honest, - I could care less what you think of me.
Sorry... but it is the truth.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Most railroaders will wave. I waved at the two railfans I saw this morning. Now whether they were able to see me through the tinted windows is beyond me... but if they didn't I hope they don't think I'm some rude obnoxious crew member who can't walk and chew gum.
Some won't for one reason or another. Like CSXengineer said, some are mean ol' SOBs that hate buffies. Some may be too occupied taking a drag off their cigarette and drinking that soda to wave. After you wave to 15,000 people, you start feeling like the pope in a massive popemobile. Or perhaps the crew member just didn't see you?????
As far as swivel seats - I hate seats that have a defective swivel lock. Gets annoying being turned back and forth the whole trip. And I do like the new GEVO speedomeers, especially the counter feature. (more buttons to play with!)
Wow.....111 replies on a non topic.
Wah.....the choo choo didn't wave back at me .....wah....mommy ! I think I will go post on a message board about it.
Yet another example of things foamers do to paint themselves as nerds to railroad workers and the general populace.
If this is what some people have to worry about, it is time to head down to the nearest ATM, take out some bucks and go buy themselves a LIFE
J T wrote: samuelpc wrote:when there near a crossing most are looking out for "idiots" , note I use the term generaly, and cannot wave. what would you have them do? wave or do thier job Not that I really care if they wave or not, but how does waving for 1 second disrupt the job they're doing? Are you suggesting engineers/conductors can't walk and chew gum at the same time? If waving is considered a disruption of their job duties, I suppose they probably shouldn't take a hit off of a cigarette or a sip from a cup or bottle of soda.
samuelpc wrote:when there near a crossing most are looking out for "idiots" , note I use the term generaly, and cannot wave. what would you have them do? wave or do thier job
when there near a crossing most are looking
out for "idiots" , note I use the term generaly, and cannot wave. what would you have them do? wave or do thier job
Not that I really care if they wave or not, but how does waving for 1 second disrupt the job they're doing? Are you suggesting engineers/conductors can't walk and chew gum at the same time?
If waving is considered a disruption of their job duties, I suppose they probably shouldn't take a hit off of a cigarette or a sip from a cup or bottle of soda.
csx engineer
You wouldn't happen to be the same RRSloth that posts in-cab videos on Youtube, would you? If you are, your videos are excellent, keep 'em coming.
RRSloth wrote: Grassyass. Been lurking for several years...*snicker*...just finally decided to climb aboard.EDIT: Building on what I said above, I sure as hell hope I don't see anymore 6-page debates on such a petty subject as this. Good God. If you folks want to debate which speedo is easier to use on the new Gevo units, or whether you ride with your seat locked or in free swivel, I'm all for it. Let's discuss something worth the pixels, no? Midnight Railroader wrote: RRSloth wrote: "No; doing the job comes first. Courtesy is second. Go stand by the highway and wave at all the cars and trucks. See how many wave back. See how many use more than one finger. Railroading isn't super-happy-fun-time. It is work." Pure gold, Zlugger. I'm glad someone finally put it like that. Midnight Railroader, you need to find better things to get bent out of shape about, bud. If you've spent so much time in a locomotive cab as you claim, you should understand the importance of keeping your eyes and mind on the game. Form A's and B's, signals, conductor log entries, defect detectors, and the errant trespasser come at you fast when you're rolling along at 60+ MPH. Add to that the fact that, as many have already pointed out, the air conditioning is going, the window's going to be closed. I don't know about the other rails out there, but the last thing on my list of priorities is opening the window, letting out the cold air and having my sh1t scattered all over the desk. Come on now, that just don't cut it. Anyhoo, lighten up a little and see this as the industry it is. It's not all about sunny skies, smiling faces, and for God's sake, waving.Welcome to the board.
Grassyass. Been lurking for several years...*snicker*...just finally decided to climb aboard.
EDIT: Building on what I said above, I sure as hell hope I don't see anymore 6-page debates on such a petty subject as this. Good God. If you folks want to debate which speedo is easier to use on the new Gevo units, or whether you ride with your seat locked or in free swivel, I'm all for it. Let's discuss something worth the pixels, no?
Midnight Railroader wrote: RRSloth wrote: "No; doing the job comes first. Courtesy is second. Go stand by the highway and wave at all the cars and trucks. See how many wave back. See how many use more than one finger. Railroading isn't super-happy-fun-time. It is work." Pure gold, Zlugger. I'm glad someone finally put it like that. Midnight Railroader, you need to find better things to get bent out of shape about, bud. If you've spent so much time in a locomotive cab as you claim, you should understand the importance of keeping your eyes and mind on the game. Form A's and B's, signals, conductor log entries, defect detectors, and the errant trespasser come at you fast when you're rolling along at 60+ MPH. Add to that the fact that, as many have already pointed out, the air conditioning is going, the window's going to be closed. I don't know about the other rails out there, but the last thing on my list of priorities is opening the window, letting out the cold air and having my sh1t scattered all over the desk. Come on now, that just don't cut it. Anyhoo, lighten up a little and see this as the industry it is. It's not all about sunny skies, smiling faces, and for God's sake, waving.Welcome to the board.
RRSloth wrote: "No; doing the job comes first. Courtesy is second. Go stand by the highway and wave at all the cars and trucks. See how many wave back. See how many use more than one finger. Railroading isn't super-happy-fun-time. It is work." Pure gold, Zlugger. I'm glad someone finally put it like that. Midnight Railroader, you need to find better things to get bent out of shape about, bud. If you've spent so much time in a locomotive cab as you claim, you should understand the importance of keeping your eyes and mind on the game. Form A's and B's, signals, conductor log entries, defect detectors, and the errant trespasser come at you fast when you're rolling along at 60+ MPH. Add to that the fact that, as many have already pointed out, the air conditioning is going, the window's going to be closed. I don't know about the other rails out there, but the last thing on my list of priorities is opening the window, letting out the cold air and having my sh1t scattered all over the desk. Come on now, that just don't cut it. Anyhoo, lighten up a little and see this as the industry it is. It's not all about sunny skies, smiling faces, and for God's sake, waving.
"No; doing the job comes first. Courtesy is second.
Go stand by the highway and wave at all the cars and trucks. See how many wave back. See how many use more than one finger. Railroading isn't super-happy-fun-time. It is work."
Pure gold, Zlugger. I'm glad someone finally put it like that. Midnight Railroader, you need to find better things to get bent out of shape about, bud. If you've spent so much time in a locomotive cab as you claim, you should understand the importance of keeping your eyes and mind on the game. Form A's and B's, signals, conductor log entries, defect detectors, and the errant trespasser come at you fast when you're rolling along at 60+ MPH. Add to that the fact that, as many have already pointed out, the air conditioning is going, the window's going to be closed. I don't know about the other rails out there, but the last thing on my list of priorities is opening the window, letting out the cold air and having my sh1t scattered all over the desk. Come on now, that just don't cut it. Anyhoo, lighten up a little and see this as the industry it is. It's not all about sunny skies, smiling faces, and for God's sake, waving.
Willy
I never knew waving meant so many different things to different people. The protocol is that the wave is always initiated by the bystander. It is simply a greeting, a celebrative gesture, a sign of respect, and an offering of good luck. The fact that nobody waves at trucks, buses or planes says a lot about railroading.
Nobody is obligated to return a wave, or even look for wavers. And let's clear this up: A wave does not include somersaults or dances. And a wave is never done with two hands, while springing up and down unless you are under five years old. Personally, I would not return a wave if it came with a somersault.
Willy2 wrote: magicman710 wrote: railzfan wrote: I hear you, I've had the same thing happen many times. I miss the times when the engineer would give us two blasts on the air horn and wave...now I only get that once in a while...sad really. I've had them look right at me and look right through me, as if I was not there. I mean is it really that hard to give a quick wave as you pass? Don't get me wrong, there are some really friendly crews that will blow the horn and wave back to you, some just don't like to do that I guess. :( It looks like your a supporter to me, thats good, finally another good person. Yes, on a few occasion I had a conducotr with his arm out the window (in the typical elbow on the widow sill, hand inside) look nearly right at me with my arm hanging out the window in my car, and he just kept on lookin at cars. He just left Savannah yard, he couldent have been on a 12 hour ride already. I dont know, I wish all the engineers here would look at themselves and think twice about not waving at the next railfan they see, IMHO, its part of a engineers job to wave at people, thats the way it was for a 100 years until we started having people like the ones on here. GraysonAh yes... the fact that I actually understand that engineers have more to do than wave to people along the tracks must make me a bad person then. No matter what kind of person I am, in your lame opinion, I continue to agree with zugmann, Limitedclear, csxengineer98, and the others that also agree with them. Engineers and conductors have better things to do than wave to everyone they see along the railroad tracks! Get over the fact that they don't all come out and dance and do somersaults for you when they go by!
magicman710 wrote: railzfan wrote: I hear you, I've had the same thing happen many times. I miss the times when the engineer would give us two blasts on the air horn and wave...now I only get that once in a while...sad really. I've had them look right at me and look right through me, as if I was not there. I mean is it really that hard to give a quick wave as you pass? Don't get me wrong, there are some really friendly crews that will blow the horn and wave back to you, some just don't like to do that I guess. :( It looks like your a supporter to me, thats good, finally another good person. Yes, on a few occasion I had a conducotr with his arm out the window (in the typical elbow on the widow sill, hand inside) look nearly right at me with my arm hanging out the window in my car, and he just kept on lookin at cars. He just left Savannah yard, he couldent have been on a 12 hour ride already. I dont know, I wish all the engineers here would look at themselves and think twice about not waving at the next railfan they see, IMHO, its part of a engineers job to wave at people, thats the way it was for a 100 years until we started having people like the ones on here. Grayson
railzfan wrote: I hear you, I've had the same thing happen many times. I miss the times when the engineer would give us two blasts on the air horn and wave...now I only get that once in a while...sad really. I've had them look right at me and look right through me, as if I was not there. I mean is it really that hard to give a quick wave as you pass? Don't get me wrong, there are some really friendly crews that will blow the horn and wave back to you, some just don't like to do that I guess. :(
I hear you, I've had the same thing happen many times. I miss the times when the engineer would give us two blasts on the air horn and wave...now I only get that once in a while...sad really. I've had them look right at me and look right through me, as if I was not there. I mean is it really that hard to give a quick wave as you pass?
Don't get me wrong, there are some really friendly crews that will blow the horn and wave back to you, some just don't like to do that I guess. :(
It looks like your a supporter to me, thats good, finally another good person. Yes, on a few occasion I had a conducotr with his arm out the window (in the typical elbow on the widow sill, hand inside) look nearly right at me with my arm hanging out the window in my car, and he just kept on lookin at cars. He just left Savannah yard, he couldent have been on a 12 hour ride already. I dont know, I wish all the engineers here would look at themselves and think twice about not waving at the next railfan they see, IMHO, its part of a engineers job to wave at people, thats the way it was for a 100 years until we started having people like the ones on here.
Ah yes... the fact that I actually understand that engineers have more to do than wave to people along the tracks must make me a bad person then.
No matter what kind of person I am, in your lame opinion, I continue to agree with zugmann, Limitedclear, csxengineer98, and the others that also agree with them. Engineers and conductors have better things to do than wave to everyone they see along the railroad tracks! Get over the fact that they don't all come out and dance and do somersaults for you when they go by!
HEY!!! I get especially irritated when I don't get somersaults from a crew that is sitting in the hole. I am ENTITLED!!!
As i have stated many times i worked on the railroad in the 70s and 80s and my vocation was also my avocation. But i was the exception to the rule most of the guys were doing their job and that was it. The reason they worked for the railroad was because it paid well. And to be honest when i was working my hobby interest was on the back burner. 8 to 12 hours a day was enough railroading. Having said that give the crews a break remember back in the 80s we had 3 or 4 man crews sometimes. Now you have 2 men doing more work. So relax THIS IS OUR HOBBY IT SHOULD BE FUN!!
railzfan wrote: I'm not getting worked up about them not waving, its just that I don't understand why those who are bashing railfans are on this board of they don't like it?
I'm not getting worked up about them not waving, its just that I don't understand why those who are bashing railfans are on this board of they don't like it?
OK Sir, lets turn around and use your same logic: Why should a professional railroader be bashed about then he has the heavy responsibility of running and train and may very well be preoccupied with other things?
When you get on a plane, do you wave to the cockpit crew or to the Stewardess? Of course not. Do you wave daily to a neighbor on your street that you don't particularly like? Again, the answer would be no.
Life goes on....enjoy the train rolling on by....waves or not.
magicman710 wrote:...its part of a engineers job to wave at people.
Like the Caveman in the Geico commercial, all I can say to this statement is "Ummmm...WHAT???!!!"
Soo 6604 wrote:A question for you engineers on here....on a typical run, how many railfans do you encounter as you run your train?......how many "regular" people do you encounter?.....how many waves do you get per run? As to the question of being too busy, there was an engineer on the CN that would actually take off his orange vest and hang it out the window to ruin any pics or video that are taken of the train, and it was even worse when the WC units were being phased out. He even taped one to the handrails.Paul
A question for you engineers on here....on a typical run, how many railfans do you encounter as you run your train?......how many "regular" people do you encounter?.....how many waves do you get per run?
As to the question of being too busy, there was an engineer on the CN that would actually take off his orange vest and hang it out the window to ruin any pics or video that are taken of the train, and it was even worse when the WC units were being phased out. He even taped one to the handrails.
Paul
as far as the WC unit.. how do you know he did it? was it yellow tape around the handrails where the steps where at..it could have been someone from the shop that is saying that unit is unsafe to go up that way and taped off the handrails to keep a crewman from going up it or into a cab that isnt safe to be in for what ever reason....cant pin point that on him without seeing him doing it...
I read through this and think CSXEngineer hit the nail on the head. Where is it written that railroad employees must wave at anyone? Do you wave to bus drivers? Do you wave at all delivery trucks and big rig truckers? Do you wave at all the cars that pass you? And they are different, how?
This is a human-to-human thing. If you wave and it isn't returned, will it take a millimeter off your life? Will it make you a better person or turn you against all humanity?
I think the most polite way would be to let the crew initiate the wave. They are offering a friendly gesture and they decide if they want to or not. Then you can wave your arms off.
And make sure, always, that they are waving and not signaling you to back away, you are too close.....
Mook
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
zugmann wrote: Here you go, midnight - a big ol' wave from me.
Here you go, midnight - a big ol' wave from me.
Ya know, that's the funniest reply I've seen in a while.
http://www.youtube.com/user/pavabo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulvbox
ok..now i have to add something to this... i see some people still think that we crewman should be required to wave at everyone we see along the right of way....
have some of you ever considered that
1..maybe that engineer just donst like people and is a mean old SOB and will never wave to anyone...
2.. that he is POed becouse his call got changed or he got called out on short rest or was jumped up and had to miss something family related...
3.. the crew just got a major rectom streching from managment about god knows what else and is not feeling all the cheerfull and willing to wave...
4.. that if we waved to every person we see along the right of way in the course of a run that our hands will be tired.. and acutly..it dose get old after a while...
5.. that things are going on the line that require our attention as in a MOW work zone comeing up..a slow order or anything else that needs our attention..just becouse we look out a window at you dont mean we are paying you any real attention..you can still here the radio with your head turned...
6.. and i think the most important one... WE CAN PICK AND CHOSE TO WAVE TO WHO EVER WE WANT TO WHEN WE WANT TO BECOUSE?????.WE CAN!!!...it isnt in our job discription to wave to people...and if you dont belive it..go to any class one carriers web page and look at job decriptions of the T&E craft jobs..you will never find wave to people in it...it is our opption and our choise to wave..bottom line...
For those who are continuing to stir the pot, I refer to the first post, which frankly appears to be unrepented of.
magicman710 wrote:Is it them just not paying attention, or is it they dont (sic) want to wave? I dont (sic) really mind them not waving if they dont (sic) see me, thats (sic) fine, but its (sic) when they look at you, or notice you, but dont (sic) wave, that makes me mad. What has happened?
The era of railroads serving the public has been destroyed by corporate culture, and of course the non-use of the railroad by the public via apathy and following the herd instinct onto the highway. If hoggers and conductors ignore you, remember that they have to do an ever-increasingly-difficult job (yes, in spite of technological advancements that really only serve to put more people out of work) within said cold culture. Be on the side of these people, not against them.
I'm not getting worked up about them not waving, its just that I don't understand why those who are bashing railfans are on this board of they don't like it? I agree with what you said above, sure, some people did get really worked up, but this is nothing to get mad about, I'm not, this post was started because one member asked a simple question and look at what it turned into, a mess! This is really a stupid thing to argue about, don't you agree? If you do, then lets make this post the last one!
Why are we getting so worked up about this??
I for one am not going to think a engineer, or conductor is rude if they don't acknowledge me...and it is certainly not going to ruin my day....
I understand where LC and the rest are coming from....they are working, and might be busy at the moment we choose to wave... So what? Like I said in my last post. I have yet to see a rude train crew. In all the years I have been watching trains, I have yet to have a negative experience with a railroad employee.... I don't get this, I really don't. Wave, don't wave...whatever, take your pictures, watch the trains, and have fun, isn't that what it is all about????
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