Midnight Railroader wrote: Soo 6604 wrote: I caught 9 trains and instead of waving, I gave them all the "One Finger Salute", and you know what? You guessed it. Every engineer and conductor (on the southbounds) gave me the finger back. They even opened the window to make sure that I saw them saluting me back. What? They even opened the window? But the A/C was on! They said they don't do that--it lets out the cool air and messes up all their paperwork. And weren't they busy running the train, talking to the dispatcher, watching for obstacles on the track, scanning for terrorists, and all the other tasks they have to do? I guess flipping someone off takes priority over safety.
Soo 6604 wrote: I caught 9 trains and instead of waving, I gave them all the "One Finger Salute", and you know what? You guessed it. Every engineer and conductor (on the southbounds) gave me the finger back. They even opened the window to make sure that I saw them saluting me back.
I guess flipping someone off takes priority over safety.
More than likely someone knew you were there and just couldn't get up the energy to use all their fingers given the little black cloud you drag around with you was depressing them so. They could only raise the one. Or perhaps it was that redwood on your shoulder blocking out the sun and nearly putting the train crew to sleep in its shadow...
I'm just glad I wasn't there to see your ugly mug...
LC
solzrules wrote:If your on a busy freeway and someone is waving to you do you take your hands off the wheel and wave back?
If your on a busy freeway and someone is waving to you do you take your hands off the wheel and wave back?
Sure. Since I drive with only one hand on the wheel, doing whatever I want with my free hand is no problem. I can walk and chew gum at the same time, too.
zugmann wrote:A quick question - I have the radio mike in one hand, a pen in the other copying down what I need to do next. How can I wave in that situation?
A quick question - I have the radio mike in one hand, a pen in the other copying down what I need to do next. How can I wave in that situation?
How about a quicker question...what if you have an itch during that moment...are you "too busy" to scratch?
Look, I really don't give a damn whether anyone waves or not. My hobby is railroad photography. If you get off on waving at foamers along the tracks, fine. If you get off on ignoring them, fine as well. But what I just find ridiculous is this excuse that anyone is "too busy" to move a part of their body for a split second in time. That's all it is...nothing more, nothing less.
J T wrote: solzrules wrote:If your on a busy freeway and someone is waving to you do you take your hands off the wheel and wave back? Sure. Since I drive with only one hand on the wheel, doing whatever I want with my free hand is no problem. I can walk and chew gum at the same time, too. zugmann wrote:A quick question - I have the radio mike in one hand, a pen in the other copying down what I need to do next. How can I wave in that situation? How about a quicker question...what if you have an itch during that moment...are you "too busy" to scratch?Look, I really don't give a damn whether anyone waves or not. My hobby is railroad photography. If you get off on waving at foamers along the tracks, fine. If you get off on ignoring them, fine as well. But what I just find ridiculous is this excuse that anyone is "too busy" to move a part of their body for a split second in time. That's all it is...nothing more, nothing less.
How people perform their work is of no concern to those not so involved. The simple point of most of the railroaders on this thread is that certain railfans seem to think they have an entitlement to dictate to us how we should perform our duties on penalty of being held in "contempt of fan". I say "Bring it on". Your contempt or other opinions (including some of the sketchy and incorrect legal opinions on this thread) are of ZERO consequence to me in the performance of my railroad job. I will still be performing my job as safely and efficiently as I am able. And if that means I am scratching an itch rather than waving, so be it.
Midnight Railroader wrote: zugmann wrote: Boy, you are not a happy person. I do know the name of a decent rope dealer if interested... And I waved to a railfan yesterday, and the idiot didn't wave back! So don't you be focusing on just train crews. Besides, it takes less effort to raise one finger than our whole arm. I just dislike hypocrisy. And, yes, the person to whom you waved should have had the courtesy to return the gesture.
zugmann wrote: Boy, you are not a happy person. I do know the name of a decent rope dealer if interested... And I waved to a railfan yesterday, and the idiot didn't wave back! So don't you be focusing on just train crews. Besides, it takes less effort to raise one finger than our whole arm.
Boy, you are not a happy person. I do know the name of a decent rope dealer if interested... And I waved to a railfan yesterday, and the idiot didn't wave back! So don't you be focusing on just train crews. Besides, it takes less effort to raise one finger than our whole arm.
And, yes, the person to whom you waved should have had the courtesy to return the gesture.
OK, so you hate yourself. Get a therapist and take the attitude with you to them. They get paid to listen to you.
wow.talk about starting to get down right ugly in here..
this divistion between foamers and railroaders is starting to come to a head... there is a line between hobbies and thinking your intitled to things or that you know more about how the railroad works then the workers themselfs... being a train buff is one thing... everybody has a hobbie of some kind..some collect stuff..others restore old cars.. some like to kick back some cold ones and become totaly oblivouse to the world around them... to each there own.. but just becoues someone likes the look of heavey equipment and wishes to photo it.. or just likes to watch heavey equipment working donst mean your intitled to anything more then that.. you see a train or locomotive at work.. you dont see what all goes on in the cab at every moment that a crew is on duty... being a railroad worker is alot more then just get on a train and go and wave to everyone like we are on a float in the thanksgiving day peraide... some of you that are trying to make arugments that the crews should always wave(which is what i am reading when i hear people questioning zug about haveing to preform work and then haveing an "itch")
this is the thing to some of you.... railroading is a JOB.. and we arent always happy to be working.. put yourself in your shoses for a moment.. as much most of you want to be...
its summer... its saterday.. its about 80 outside..and its nice and sunny.. while your out doing "what you like to do as a hobbie" we crews are WORKING... dont you think we would rather be doing something that we WANT to do that is fun..not WORKING..so keeping that in mind.. can you understand why we dont want to or feel we have to wave to very tom dick and harry along the right of way with a cammera or anyone for that fact... your haveing fun..your doing something that isnt work.. we crews ARNT...
csx engineer
Limitedclear wrote:How people perform their work is of no concern to those not so involved. The simple point of most of the railroaders on this thread is that certain railfans seem to think they have an entitlement to dictate to us how we should perform our duties on penalty of being held in "contempt of fan". I say "Bring it on". Your contempt or other opinions (including some of the sketchy and incorrect legal opinions on this thread) are of ZERO consequence to me in the performance of my railroad job. I will still be performing my job as safely and efficiently as I am able. And if that means I am scratching an itch rather than waving, so be it.
LC, I couldn't agree with you more. If you want to wave, do so. If you don't want to, don't. You don't owe ANYONE a wave. It's as simple as that.
Limitedclear wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: zugmann wrote: Boy, you are not a happy person. I do know the name of a decent rope dealer if interested... And I waved to a railfan yesterday, and the idiot didn't wave back! So don't you be focusing on just train crews. Besides, it takes less effort to raise one finger than our whole arm. I just dislike hypocrisy. And, yes, the person to whom you waved should have had the courtesy to return the gesture.OK, so you hate yourself. Get a therapist and take the attitude with you to them. They get paid to listen to you.LC
Midnight Railroader wrote: Limitedclear wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: zugmann wrote: Boy, you are not a happy person. I do know the name of a decent rope dealer if interested... And I waved to a railfan yesterday, and the idiot didn't wave back! So don't you be focusing on just train crews. Besides, it takes less effort to raise one finger than our whole arm. I just dislike hypocrisy. And, yes, the person to whom you waved should have had the courtesy to return the gesture.OK, so you hate yourself. Get a therapist and take the attitude with you to them. They get paid to listen to you.LCGlib, but untrue. If you don't like "listening" to me, no one's forcing you to read this thread.
Then why do you continue to post here if you don't like the topic?
You're just angry at the world aren't you?
J T wrote: Limitedclear wrote:How people perform their work is of no concern to those not so involved. The simple point of most of the railroaders on this thread is that certain railfans seem to think they have an entitlement to dictate to us how we should perform our duties on penalty of being held in "contempt of fan". I say "Bring it on". Your contempt or other opinions (including some of the sketchy and incorrect legal opinions on this thread) are of ZERO consequence to me in the performance of my railroad job. I will still be performing my job as safely and efficiently as I am able. And if that means I am scratching an itch rather than waving, so be it.LC, I couldn't agree with you more. If you want to wave, do so. If you don't want to, don't. You don't owe ANYONE a wave. It's as simple as that.
Hear Hear!!!!!
Well, if anything, this thread has definitely brought the division between railroaders and railfans to a head. All over a simple hand gesture. And, it's a gap not likely to be bridged. Why? Because some people can't let go, agree to disagree, or really, admit that this is a trivial matter to be upset over. (so trivial that it ran 17 pages)
Let me stake out my position, and be done with it: I don't care if you wave or not, I know you are working, it's pretty obvious to me. On the other hand, I can understand your contempt for the obnoxious "foamer". I don't like them either, and I have run into a few. When I was a firefighter, the "fire geeks" used to drive me nuts. So, I know what the railroaders mean. I have been out taking pictures and have had the displeasure of meeting those from the extreme end of the hobby over the years. But then, every hobby has those. So, LC, csxengineer, zugmann and the rest of the railroaders: Your points are well taken and understood.
But, on the subject of a foamer: Hmmmm I think that could be left for another day or another thread..I'm not gonna open that can of worms....
Dan
J T wrote:But what I just find ridiculous is this excuse that anyone is "too busy" to move a part of their body for a split second in time. That's all it is...nothing more, nothing less.
Your post suggests that you expect crews to "perform on foamer demand".
That is equally ridiculous.
Harry_Runyon wrote: J T wrote:But what I just find ridiculous is this excuse that anyone is "too busy" to move a part of their body for a split second in time. That's all it is...nothing more, nothing less. Your post suggests that you expect crews to "perform on foamer demand". That is equally ridiculous.
What's even more ridiculous is the fact that a bunch of adults are fighting like little kids over a very trivial subject.
Willy
Willy2 wrote:What's even more ridiculous is the fact that a bunch of adults are fighting like little kids over a very trivial subject.
Unless of course they really are little kids Willy.
Here Willy, have some popcorn!
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
Harry_Runyon wrote: Willy2 wrote:What's even more ridiculous is the fact that a bunch of adults are fighting like little kids over a very trivial subject. Unless of course they really are little kids Willy.
I think you've hit the nail on the head!
blhanel wrote: Here Willy, have some popcorn!
Will do. Thanks, Brian.
Equally interesting is just how apathetic I'm feeling about railfanning now. Other than the fact that I'm not quite 40 yet, I guess I'm the quintessential fat, greasy foamer with 3 cameras hanging around my neck, and we've seen how much love there is for them.
Lately, I've also been trying to get shots of railroaders doing their job because as I mentioned, I had an opinion about railroading being a definate product of the people of the industry. Lo and behold, suddenly that's not kosher, either.
As evidenced by the NYC Photography thread, photography in public places, especially of things like trains, is coming under more and more scrutiny. Do I really care to have the MBTA put my name in a polce database for pursuing a hobby. Not really.
So is the whole thing worth it? Maybe, but I think I'll be spending my spare time climbing some mountains and such for awhile. Seems like a much better ratio of effort input to enjoyment output.
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
Willy2 wrote: blhanel wrote: Here Willy, have some popcorn!Will do. Thanks, Brian.
CopCarSS wrote: Equally interesting is just how apathetic I'm feeling about railfanning now. Other than the fact that I'm not quite 40 yet, I guess I'm the quintessential fat, greasy foamer with 3 cameras hanging around my neck, and we've seen how much love there is for them.Lately, I've also been trying to get shots of railroaders doing their job because as I mentioned, I had an opinion about railroading being a definate product of the people of the industry. Lo and behold, suddenly that's not kosher, either.As evidenced by the NYC Photography thread, photography in public places, especially of things like trains, is coming under more and more scrutiny. Do I really care to have the MBTA put my name in a polce database for pursuing a hobby. Not really.So is the whole thing worth it? Maybe, but I think I'll be spending my spare time climbing some mountains and such for awhile. Seems like a much better ratio of effort input to enjoyment output.
Oh come now. Don't give up railfanning because of this silly thread. What will we do here in the forums without your excellent photos?!
If anything, this is making my passion for getting out and seeing trains greater. I want to prove to these people once and for all that not everyone that watches a train go by is a foamer or an idiot.
Railfans of the world... stand strong in the face of this adversity!!
Careful there Chris... don't go taking photos of them thar mountains you are climbin'.... someone might think that you are some sort of terrorist planning to make a molehill out of it! (Or do I have my similies backward?)
I say, let everybody take photos, including the terrorists... aside from the fact that you absolutely cannot stop someone from taking a photo... cameras can be hidden in cell phones, the temple pieces of eye-glasses, in a lunch bucket... anywhere... when they catch that said terrorist, the photos are part of the evidence they were planning the terror attack and not that it was some sort of odd accident. Say a gasoline truck crashes into a building entrance... was that just a trucker that had an accident (had a siezure maybe and lost control of the vehicle), he may now be dead and you cannot ask him... or did he have a secret room someplace filled with photos of the entrance with trajectories plotted on them?
Circumstantial evidence can answer questions and "help" prove or disprove culpability and intent.
As for WE children here dis-cussin' this subject... There are sometimes new points that can be added by another post... those I don't mind seeing, even if sometimes a new post is just a "vote" as to one more person's feelings on the subject that happens to have alread been stated.
It does bother me when someone repeats their position in response to one of those "votes"... On the other hand... I certainly "ACCEPT" such repeats when the "voter" states that they didn't take the time to read the whole series of statements in the thread. The person that says they didn't read it all (or it is obvious based on what they write) and makes statements that have already been discussed, as though it is something 'new', is lacking in simple social etiquette and in some sense needs to be brought up to speed on where the conversation has already been. I guess it would be nice to just say to them to read the previous posts as what they stated has already been discussed, and cussed in disgust, but I also realize that "I" would "like" to call 'em what I think of 'em!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Due to hot temperatures and less than stellar AC, I had the windows open today. I made a special point to wave to railfans and trackside residents out and about. I got about an 70-80% return in waves.
But I still take issue to being told I should wave no matter what.
And to add to csxengineer's post on the last page - it is work. You just see us for 5 seconds. 5 seconds of us cruising along, getting good signals. But you didn't see us getting woken up in the middle of the night, being hassled by a yardmaster to do 50 umpteen million moves, having everything that can go wrong - go wrong, an engine that is ungodly hot, beng shoved in multiple sidings, etc. etc.... so sometimes we are just tired, hot and don't feel like waving. It is as simple as that.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
J T wrote:Sure. Since I drive with only one hand on the wheel, doing whatever I want with my free hand is no problem. I can walk and chew gum at the same time, too. How about a quicker question...what if you have an itch during that moment...are you "too busy" to scratch?Look, I really don't give a damn whether anyone waves or not. My hobby is railroad photography. If you get off on waving at foamers along the tracks, fine. If you get off on ignoring them, fine as well. But what I just find ridiculous is this excuse that anyone is "too busy" to move a part of their body for a split second in time. That's all it is...nothing more, nothing less.
I have to respond to this post: I ain't your monkey. You said it yourself "my hobby". Guess what? This is my job - my PAID profession. Why should I waste my valuable time even acknowledging your "hobby"? You are doing nothing but giving railfans a bad name. Yes, there are times I am too busy to give a wave. You have a problem with that? Go hire on a railroad and show me up.
You obviously misunderstood my post.
No, my post suggests that anyone who uses the excuse NOT to wave because they are too busy the ENTIRE time they are working is just flat out lying. Sure, you're going to have those moments from time to time while you're going down the tracks and occupied with more important things, but to imply that it's that way 100% of the time is just ridiculous. It's just like any work you do in life. There are moments when you're focused on the task at hand and other moments when you can CHOOSE to look and acknowledge what's going on around you.
As I've stated before, I don't give a damn if the engineer or conductor waves or not when I'm taking pictures. It's about the equipment, not about them. I also think those making excuses should come out and admit that they just DON'T WANT TO WAVE. How hard is it to admit that? Why be a drama queen about it? I had an engineer honk and wave at me today while I was taking a picture. I did a "what's up" kind of wave back and was quickly and safely on my way. He acknowledged my presence and I acknowledged his. Nothing more, nothing less. Apparently he wasn't too busy to wave, though...and I'm sure he wouldn't be on this forum making excuses either.
Engineers, conductors, trainmen, whatever, don't worry about hurting the feelings of foamers. If you don't want to wave, just SAY it. They WILL get over it.
snagletooth wrote: Willy2 wrote: blhanel wrote: Here Willy, have some popcorn!Will do. Thanks, Brian. hey blhanel, I'l swap you some beer for some popcorn! And maybe some Milkduds
Willy, Brian, Thanks for fireing up the popcorn machine. Snagletooth, pass me a brew.
OK now, which ones are the children?
zugmann wrote: Due to hot temperatures and less than stellar AC, I had the windows open today. I made a special point to wave to railfans and trackside residents out and about. I got about an 70-80% return in waves. But I still take issue to being told I should wave no matter what. And to add to csxengineer's post on the last page - it is work. You just see us for 5 seconds. 5 seconds of us cruising along, getting good signals. But you didn't see us getting woken up in the middle of the night, being hassled by a yardmaster to do 50 umpteen million moves, having everything that can go wrong - go wrong, an engine that is ungodly hot, beng shoved in multiple sidings, etc. etc.... so sometimes we are just tired, hot and don't feel like waving. It is as simple as that.
Could grief. The temperature is in the 90's here. Maybe the line should be only mad dogs, Englishmen and railfans go out in the noonday sun.
Getting ticked off because a total stranger doesn't return your wave? You don't want my advice!
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
J T wrote:You obviously misunderstood my post. No, my post suggests that anyone who uses the excuse NOT to wave because they are too busy the ENTIRE time they are working is just flat out lying. Sure, you're going to have those moments from time to time while you're going down the tracks and occupied with more important things, but to imply that it's that way 100% of the time is just ridiculous. It's just like any work you do in life. There are moments when you're focused on the task at hand and other moments when you can CHOOSE to look and acknowledge what's going on around you. As I've stated before, I don't give a damn if the engineer or conductor waves or not when I'm taking pictures. It's about the equipment, not about them. I also think those making excuses should come out and admit that they just DON'T WANT TO WAVE. How hard is it to admit that? Why be a drama queen about it? I had an engineer honk and wave at me today while I was taking a picture. I did a "what's up" kind of wave back and was quickly and safely on my way. He acknowledged my presence and I acknowledged his. Nothing more, nothing less. Apparently he wasn't too busy to wave, though...and I'm sure he wouldn't be on this forum making excuses either. Engineers, conductors, trainmen, whatever, don't worry about hurting the feelings of foamers. If you don't want to wave, just SAY it. They WILL get over it.
No, you need to go re-read the posts. No one EVER said that they were 100% too busy not to wave. We only said there were instances. I admitted several times that sometimes we just don't want to wave. Others have too...
"It's all about the equipment". That is a sad statement on the state of today's railfan.
zugmann wrote: I have to respond to this post: I ain't your monkey. You said it yourself "my hobby". Guess what? This is my job - my PAID profession. Why should I waste my valuable time even acknowledging your "hobby"? You are doing nothing but giving railfans a bad name. Yes, there are times I am too busy to give a wave. You have a problem with that? Go hire on a railroad and show me up.
I'm not saying you need to waste your valuable time acknowledging my hobby. When did I say that? Where did I say that? Oh yeah, I didn't. I couldln't care less if you acknowledge my hobby or not.
*I* am giving railfans a bad name by stating that I don't care if engineers wave or not? Please explain the rationale behind that.
And finally, you admitted what I've been saying all along: "There are times I am too busy to give a wave"...which means there are also times when you're NOT too busy to wave.
That's the point I've been making. That there ARE times when you're not too busy to make a simple body gesture. But apparently you missed the point where I said I DON'T CARE IF YOU WAVE OR NOT. It doesn't matter to me. But why make the excuse that you're too busy ALL THE TIME? Just tell it like it is...you DON'T WANT to wave. Big F'in deal.
No one made the statement that they are too busy to wave 100% of the time. If you don't care about the waves, why are you having such a hissy fit about us "not waving". Something does not add up.
And watch your language.
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