What do think about M.W. Hemphill's column in Dec. TRAINS RE:the plight of T&E service?

[zardoz]

BaltACD,

Perhaps the system you refer to is different that the one used by the CNW (UP). The ATS system we used had no cab signals except for a little whistle that sounded to indicate proper acknowledgement of a wayside indication. There is an inductor by every signal, and if the signal is anything except clear, the inductor must be acknowledged as the second axle (that has the appropriate hardware mounted) passes over the wayside inductor. It is a very primative system, for the re is no connection to what the engineer is actually doing. One could run throught a red signal at 70mph, and would receive no penalty application, as long as the signal was acknowledged. It was better than nothing. It was, however, good for when the fog was so thick you could not see a signal until you were literally next to it; so if you did miss a restrictive indication, the ATS system would cause a full-service application.

It is the ATC system that has the in-cab signal aspects, and works with or without wayside signals.

[tree68]

I recall an article - probably in Trains, a good while back - that explained one method of cab signalling that used the track circuit for it's information. Each signal aspect sent a different pulse rate down the track and an induction coil picked it up so it could be translated to an indication in the cab. If you got no signal, either the system was down, or there was something (another train) between you and the next signal. Sending the pulses out is necessary to detect occupancy, and this type of arrangement capitalizes on that.

I know it's a lot more complicated than that, but the basic concept is pretty simple. It probably has a name, but I don't recall that either...

[mvlandsw]

Even if you do provide regularly scheduled rest time there is no way to insure that the time will actually be used for rest. There are many demands on people's time and rest is many times not the first priorty.

[daveklepper]

As far as I know that system you describe was applied by the PRR and its subsidiary LIRR in the 1930's! And the basic concept is still in use today. Including the Boston - Washington Corridor. When a train met a restrictive signal, say yellow, a brake application had to be made or the train would go into emergency. At a red signal of course a pass by would an emergency application. However, in most cases it was possible to stop and proceed at a red signal. In the acutal installation, at first, there were the correct postion light signals corrisponding to the colors noted.

In modern signalling, it is possible that antenna have replaced induction coils.

[zardoz]

tree68 - your description sounds like the ATC I mentioned. I never worked with ATC, but from what the guys that do say is that is is a pain in whatever. I seem to recall that they said that when you get a indication other than clear, you have a very short (30 seconds?) time to get the speed of your train reduced, which usually necessitated going to nearly full service; quite the train-handling challenge if you are drifting along in the fourth notch on some slightly hog-backed terrain.

That little notch in the 26L brake valve just past (to the right) full service was called "suppression", and that was used to prevent a penalty brake application from occurring if you could not get the speed reduced in the time allotted. It was also the position you had to go to in order to recover your air after a penalty application in ATS territory.

[tnchpsk8]

Having come from a family of railroaders and been a long-haul trucker for thirty years there are many similarities between the two professions. ALL transportation jobs are 24/7 year round. I feel better knowing that the train crew may be tired but they are on rails and thus the dangers are fewer as compared to tired truckers sharing the highways with inattentive automobile drivers. Mile for mile if I were starting a job in the transportation industry, I would definitely choose railroading.

[MStLfan]

Gentlemen (no ladies here?),
Interesting thread, learned a lot.

Railroads must address this issue or have a solution placed on them by the voters and there representatives. Better be prepared and learn from best practices of other transportation modes and industries. Your not on an island.

Maybe positive train control in future will help since ATS is too costly.

Meanwhile, a nap on the job sounds like a workable interim solution. I take a nap after work at the end of the working week (mostly this happens on thursdays) and that works out just fine. 30 minutes does the trick while traveling on the train home.

Here in the Netherlands we have a form of ATS called ATB. Took the railroad 40 years to get it installed on some 3000 routekm's and only works above 40 kph! Guess at what speed all the major accidents happened over here... The system became mandatory after our biggest train crash some 40 years ago, with a law passed soon after.

Anyway, work safely and have fun while at your job or get another job.
greetings from Rotterdam in the Netherlands

[Anonymous]

San Antonio (TX) Express-News Op-Ed: UP engineers say they struggle to
stay awake during long hours.
By Ken Rodriguez, San Antonio Express-News, 11/21/2004
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA112104.3A.krod.77eb3bef.html

Seven train derailments in Bexar County since May, five fatalities
since June, and Union Pacific is literally asleep.

America's largest railroad opens a 24-hour safety command center here
while some if its engineers say they doze off on locomotives.

UP increases walking inspections and re-instructs managers while some
of its engineers claim they are working on two to three hours of sleep.

"I nodded off several times last night," one Texas engineer told me
Saturday morning. "It was tough to stay awake."

The engineer fears he will be fired if he discloses his name, so we'll
call him Michael. Michael says he rarely reports to work having slept
more than four hours. One day in the spring, he became overwhelmed by
exhaustion.

"I told my wife, 'I'm dreading going to work tonight, I'm afraid I'll
fall asleep and kill myself or kill somebody,'" he says. "I worry about
that all the time."

Michael's story is not uncommon, judging from the engineers I spoke
with. They said they are sleep deprived. They receive no assigned days
off. They often work 70 to 80 hours a week. Some say they've fallen
sound asleep on the job.

Fatigue sometimes is cited as a contributing factor in rail accidents,
and staffing levels long have been an issue between the railroad and
the unions representing its workers.

Keith Pratt, 68, a retired UP engineer in La Grande, Ore., says he fell

asleep once, and narrowly missed a head-on collision with another
train.

"The night before, I didn't get much sleep," Pratt says, "Just two,
three hours maybe."

One former West Coast UP engineer-in-training quit, fearing a job that
would have put her on call seven days a week.

"I was told, 'You need to learn to go to work with sleep deprivation,'"

the former UP employee recalls. "I couldn't believe it. I feared not
only for my life, but I feared for my co-workers. I feared for the
general public."

Union Pacific, of course, fears bad public relations. Third quarter
profits, after all, are down. The last thing UP wants is a wave of
negative publicity, but the truth stings when it strikes right
between closed eyes.

And the truth is that nearly a dozen UP engineers and conductors across

the country have told me they are fatigued, afraid and battling to stay
awake.

"If anyone says he hasn't ever nodded off, he's lying," Michael says.

"That's absolutely right," adds one California conductor. "You are
fatigued all the time."

"I nodded off a couple of nights ago," a California engineer admits.
"It's frightening. I'm not a disgruntled employee. I like my job. But
Union Pacific needs to pay more attention to fatigue."

Contrast these comments with a message on UP's Web site, which reads:
"At Union Pacific, safety is No. 1."

Engineers never know when they will be called. Deciding when to sleep
is often guesswork. And sometimes, right when they prepare to lie down,
they're called in to work.

Here's the UP spin: Engineers are not allowed to spend more than 12
consecutive hours on the rails.

Here's the reality: After a 12-hour shift, some engineers wait hours
for a ride to get home or to a hotel. That's when their official day
ends, sometimes 15 or 16 hours after it begins.

One area engineer recalls working a 98-hour week.

"It was 14 hours a day, seven days in a row," he says.

Here's another UP spin: Its engineers are given a minimum of eight
hours rest between shifts.

Here's the reality: Engineers spend much of those off hours catching up

with spouses, playing with children, doing chores, showering and
eating. Little time is left for sleep.

UP says engineers have ample opportunity for rest. The railroad has a
chart showing that, in one recent 40-day work period, only four San
Antonio rail employees worked more than 34 days. UP says the chart is
typical of other systems in the country, though it did not provide
supporting evidence.

Nor did it provide any evidence to counter the claim that sleep
deprivation is a problem.

It is. The Federal Railroad Administration says fatigue was a possible
factor in two local derailments. UP says it's working on the fatigue
issue. How? It's conducting a long-term study with the FRA.

UP, how about studying this: Your engineers are dozing. Your trains are

derailing. People are dying. Wake up before the next engineer falls
asleep and gets someone killed.

-----
To contact Ken Rodriguez, call [phone] or e-mail
<mailto:[e-mail]>. His
column appears on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays.



San Antonio (TX) Express-News Op-Ed: UP engineers say they struggle to
stay awake during long hours.
By Ken Rodriguez, San Antonio Express-News, 11/21/2004
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA112104.3A.krod.77eb3bef.html

Seven train derailments in Bexar County since May, five fatalities
since June, and Union Pacific is literally asleep.

America's largest railroad opens a 24-hour safety command center here
while some if its engineers say they doze off on locomotives.

UP increases walking inspections and re-instructs managers while some
of its engineers claim they are working on two to three hours of sleep.

"I nodded off several times last night," one Texas engineer told me
Saturday morning. "It was tough to stay awake."

The engineer fears he will be fired if he discloses his name, so we'll
call him Michael. Michael says he rarely reports to work having slept
more than four hours. One day in the spring, he became overwhelmed by
exhaustion.

"I told my wife, 'I'm dreading going to work tonight, I'm afraid I'll
fall asleep and kill myself or kill somebody,'" he says. "I worry about
that all the time."

Michael's story is not uncommon, judging from the engineers I spoke
with. They said they are sleep deprived. They receive no assigned days
off. They often work 70 to 80 hours a week. Some say they've fallen
sound asleep on the job.

Fatigue sometimes is cited as a contributing factor in rail accidents,
and staffing levels long have been an issue between the railroad and
the unions representing its workers.

Keith Pratt, 68, a retired UP engineer in La Grande, Ore., says he fell

asleep once, and narrowly missed a head-on collision with another
train.

"The night before, I didn't get much sleep," Pratt says, "Just two,
three hours maybe."

One former West Coast UP engineer-in-training quit, fearing a job that
would have put her on call seven days a week.

"I was told, 'You need to learn to go to work with sleep deprivation,'"

the former UP employee recalls. "I couldn't believe it. I feared not
only for my life, but I feared for my co-workers. I feared for the
general public."

Union Pacific, of course, fears bad public relations. Third quarter
profits, after all, are down. The last thing UP wants is a wave of
negative publicity, but the truth stings when it strikes right
between closed eyes.

And the truth is that nearly a dozen UP engineers and conductors across

the country have told me they are fatigued, afraid and battling to stay
awake.

"If anyone says he hasn't ever nodded off, he's lying," Michael says.

"That's absolutely right," adds one California conductor. "You are
fatigued all the time."

"I nodded off a couple of nights ago," a California engineer admits.
"It's frightening. I'm not a disgruntled employee. I like my job. But
Union Pacific needs to pay more attention to fatigue."

Contrast these comments with a message on UP's Web site, which reads:
"At Union Pacific, safety is No. 1."

Engineers never know when they will be called. Deciding when to sleep
is often guesswork. And sometimes, right when they prepare to lie down,
they're called in to work.

Here's the UP spin: Engineers are not allowed to spend more than 12
consecutive hours on the rails.

Here's the reality: After a 12-hour shift, some engineers wait hours
for a ride to get home or to a hotel. That's when their official day
ends, sometimes 15 or 16 hours after it begins.

One area engineer recalls working a 98-hour week.

"It was 14 hours a day, seven days in a row," he says.

Here's another UP spin: Its engineers are given a minimum of eight
hours rest between shifts.

Here's the reality: Engineers spend much of those off hours catching up

with spouses, playing with children, doing chores, showering and
eating. Little time is left for sleep.

UP says engineers have ample opportunity for rest. The railroad has a
chart showing that, in one recent 40-day work period, only four San
Antonio rail employees worked more than 34 days. UP says the chart is
typical of other systems in the country, though it did not provide
supporting evidence.

Nor did it provide any evidence to counter the claim that sleep
deprivation is a problem.

It is. The Federal Railroad Administration says fatigue was a possible
factor in two local derailments. UP says it's working on the fatigue
issue. How? It's conducting a long-term study with the FRA.

UP, how about studying this: Your engineers are dozing. Your trains are

derailing. People are dying. Wake up before the next engineer falls
asleep and gets someone killed.

-----
To contact Ken Rodriguez, call [phone] or e-mail
<mailto:[e-mail]>. His
column appears on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays.



San Antonio (TX) Express-News Op-Ed: UP engineers say they struggle to
stay awake during long hours.
By Ken Rodriguez, San Antonio Express-News, 11/21/2004
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA112104.3A.krod.77eb3bef.html

Seven train derailments in Bexar County since May, five fatalities
since June, and Union Pacific is literally asleep.

America's largest railroad opens a 24-hour safety command center here
while some if its engineers say they doze off on locomotives.

UP increases walking inspections and re-instructs managers while some
of its engineers claim they are working on two to three hours of sleep.

"I nodded off several times last night," one Texas engineer told me
Saturday morning. "It was tough to stay awake."

The engineer fears he will be fired if he discloses his name, so we'll
call him Michael. Michael says he rarely reports to work having slept
more than four hours. One day in the spring, he became overwhelmed by
exhaustion.

"I told my wife, 'I'm dreading going to work tonight, I'm afraid I'll
fall asleep and kill myself or kill somebody,'" he says. "I worry about
that all the time."

Michael's story is not uncommon, judging from the engineers I spoke
with. They said they are sleep deprived. They receive no assigned days
off. They often work 70 to 80 hours a week. Some say they've fallen
sound asleep on the job.

Fatigue sometimes is cited as a contributing factor in rail accidents,
and staffing levels long have been an issue between the railroad and
the unions representing its workers.

Keith Pratt, 68, a retired UP engineer in La Grande, Ore., says he fell

asleep once, and narrowly missed a head-on collision with another
train.

"The night before, I didn't get much sleep," Pratt says, "Just two,
three hours maybe."

One former West Coast UP engineer-in-training quit, fearing a job that
would have put her on call seven days a week.

"I was told, 'You need to learn to go to work with sleep deprivation,'"

the former UP employee recalls. "I couldn't believe it. I feared not
only for my life, but I feared for my co-workers. I feared for the
general public."

Union Pacific, of course, fears bad public relations. Third quarter
profits, after all, are down. The last thing UP wants is a wave of
negative publicity, but the truth stings when it strikes right
between closed eyes.

And the truth is that nearly a dozen UP engineers and conductors across

the country have told me they are fatigued, afraid and battling to stay
awake.

"If anyone says he hasn't ever nodded off, he's lying," Michael says.

"That's absolutely right," adds one California conductor. "You are
fatigued all the time."

"I nodded off a couple of nights ago," a California engineer admits.
"It's frightening. I'm not a disgruntled employee. I like my job. But
Union Pacific needs to pay more attention to fatigue."

Contrast these comments with a message on UP's Web site, which reads:
"At Union Pacific, safety is No. 1."

Engineers never know when they will be called. Deciding when to sleep
is often guesswork. And sometimes, right when they prepare to lie down,
they're called in to work.

Here's the UP spin: Engineers are not allowed to spend more than 12
consecutive hours on the rails.

Here's the reality: After a 12-hour shift, some engineers wait hours
for a ride to get home or to a hotel. That's when their official day
ends, sometimes 15 or 16 hours after it begins.

One area engineer recalls working a 98-hour week.

"It was 14 hours a day, seven days in a row," he says.

Here's another UP spin: Its engineers are given a minimum of eight
hours rest between shifts.

Here's the reality: Engineers spend much of those off hours catching up

with spouses, playing with children, doing chores, showering and
eating. Little time is left for sleep.

UP says engineers have ample opportunity for rest. The railroad has a
chart showing that, in one recent 40-day work period, only four San
Antonio rail employees worked more than 34 days. UP says the chart is
typical of other systems in the country, though it did not provide
supporting evidence.

Nor did it provide any evidence to counter the claim that sleep
deprivation is a problem.

It is. The Federal Railroad Administration says fatigue was a possible
factor in two local derailments. UP says it's working on the fatigue
issue. How? It's conducting a long-term study with the FRA.

UP, how about studying this: Your engineers are dozing. Your trains are

derailing. People are dying. Wake up before the next engineer falls
asleep and gets someone killed.

-----
To contact Ken Rodriguez, call [phone] or e-mail
<mailto:[e-mail]>. His
column appears on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

[Anonymous]

Colin, is it necessary to post the whiole article twice?

LC

[Anonymous]

Looks like 3 times to me.

[Philcal]

I was a cop for 38 years prior to retiring. Yah, over the years you work different shifts, and put in some long hours. Railroading is a whole "nuther" world, and as noted, not for the faint of heart. It takes a special guy or gal to put up with the extra board, going on the law, and nights in a motel far from home. Next time you see a locomotive crew,give them an extra wave. They deserve it. Yah, Mark Hemphill pretty well nailed it. He usually does.