What do think about M.W. Hemphill's column in Dec. TRAINS RE:the plight of T&E service?

[Philcal]

I was a cop for 38 years prior to retiring. Yah, over the years you work different shifts, and put in some long hours. Railroading is a whole "nuther" world, and as noted, not for the faint of heart. It takes a special guy or gal to put up with the extra board, going on the law, and nights in a motel far from home. Next time you see a locomotive crew,give them an extra wave. They deserve it. Yah, Mark Hemphill pretty well nailed it. He usually does.

[Anonymous]

Looks like 3 times to me.

[Anonymous]

Colin, is it necessary to post the whiole article twice?

LC

[Anonymous]

San Antonio (TX) Express-News Op-Ed: UP engineers say they struggle to
stay awake during long hours.
By Ken Rodriguez, San Antonio Express-News, 11/21/2004
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA112104.3A.krod.77eb3bef.html

Seven train derailments in Bexar County since May, five fatalities
since June, and Union Pacific is literally asleep.

America's largest railroad opens a 24-hour safety command center here
while some if its engineers say they doze off on locomotives.

UP increases walking inspections and re-instructs managers while some
of its engineers claim they are working on two to three hours of sleep.

"I nodded off several times last night," one Texas engineer told me
Saturday morning. "It was tough to stay awake."

The engineer fears he will be fired if he discloses his name, so we'll
call him Michael. Michael says he rarely reports to work having slept
more than four hours. One day in the spring, he became overwhelmed by
exhaustion.

"I told my wife, 'I'm dreading going to work tonight, I'm afraid I'll
fall asleep and kill myself or kill somebody,'" he says. "I worry about
that all the time."

Michael's story is not uncommon, judging from the engineers I spoke
with. They said they are sleep deprived. They receive no assigned days
off. They often work 70 to 80 hours a week. Some say they've fallen
sound asleep on the job.

Fatigue sometimes is cited as a contributing factor in rail accidents,
and staffing levels long have been an issue between the railroad and
the unions representing its workers.

Keith Pratt, 68, a retired UP engineer in La Grande, Ore., says he fell

asleep once, and narrowly missed a head-on collision with another
train.

"The night before, I didn't get much sleep," Pratt says, "Just two,
three hours maybe."

One former West Coast UP engineer-in-training quit, fearing a job that
would have put her on call seven days a week.

"I was told, 'You need to learn to go to work with sleep deprivation,'"

the former UP employee recalls. "I couldn't believe it. I feared not
only for my life, but I feared for my co-workers. I feared for the
general public."

Union Pacific, of course, fears bad public relations. Third quarter
profits, after all, are down. The last thing UP wants is a wave of
negative publicity, but the truth stings when it strikes right
between closed eyes.

And the truth is that nearly a dozen UP engineers and conductors across

the country have told me they are fatigued, afraid and battling to stay
awake.

"If anyone says he hasn't ever nodded off, he's lying," Michael says.

"That's absolutely right," adds one California conductor. "You are
fatigued all the time."

"I nodded off a couple of nights ago," a California engineer admits.
"It's frightening. I'm not a disgruntled employee. I like my job. But
Union Pacific needs to pay more attention to fatigue."

Contrast these comments with a message on UP's Web site, which reads:
"At Union Pacific, safety is No. 1."

Engineers never know when they will be called. Deciding when to sleep
is often guesswork. And sometimes, right when they prepare to lie down,
they're called in to work.

Here's the UP spin: Engineers are not allowed to spend more than 12
consecutive hours on the rails.

Here's the reality: After a 12-hour shift, some engineers wait hours
for a ride to get home or to a hotel. That's when their official day
ends, sometimes 15 or 16 hours after it begins.

One area engineer recalls working a 98-hour week.

"It was 14 hours a day, seven days in a row," he says.

Here's another UP spin: Its engineers are given a minimum of eight
hours rest between shifts.

Here's the reality: Engineers spend much of those off hours catching up

with spouses, playing with children, doing chores, showering and
eating. Little time is left for sleep.

UP says engineers have ample opportunity for rest. The railroad has a
chart showing that, in one recent 40-day work period, only four San
Antonio rail employees worked more than 34 days. UP says the chart is
typical of other systems in the country, though it did not provide
supporting evidence.

Nor did it provide any evidence to counter the claim that sleep
deprivation is a problem.

It is. The Federal Railroad Administration says fatigue was a possible
factor in two local derailments. UP says it's working on the fatigue
issue. How? It's conducting a long-term study with the FRA.

UP, how about studying this: Your engineers are dozing. Your trains are

derailing. People are dying. Wake up before the next engineer falls
asleep and gets someone killed.

-----
To contact Ken Rodriguez, call [phone] or e-mail
<mailto:[e-mail]>. His
column appears on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays.



San Antonio (TX) Express-News Op-Ed: UP engineers say they struggle to
stay awake during long hours.
By Ken Rodriguez, San Antonio Express-News, 11/21/2004
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA112104.3A.krod.77eb3bef.html

Seven train derailments in Bexar County since May, five fatalities
since June, and Union Pacific is literally asleep.

America's largest railroad opens a 24-hour safety command center here
while some if its engineers say they doze off on locomotives.

UP increases walking inspections and re-instructs managers while some
of its engineers claim they are working on two to three hours of sleep.

"I nodded off several times last night," one Texas engineer told me
Saturday morning. "It was tough to stay awake."

The engineer fears he will be fired if he discloses his name, so we'll
call him Michael. Michael says he rarely reports to work having slept
more than four hours. One day in the spring, he became overwhelmed by
exhaustion.

"I told my wife, 'I'm dreading going to work tonight, I'm afraid I'll
fall asleep and kill myself or kill somebody,'" he says. "I worry about
that all the time."

Michael's story is not uncommon, judging from the engineers I spoke
with. They said they are sleep deprived. They receive no assigned days
off. They often work 70 to 80 hours a week. Some say they've fallen
sound asleep on the job.

Fatigue sometimes is cited as a contributing factor in rail accidents,
and staffing levels long have been an issue between the railroad and
the unions representing its workers.

Keith Pratt, 68, a retired UP engineer in La Grande, Ore., says he fell

asleep once, and narrowly missed a head-on collision with another
train.

"The night before, I didn't get much sleep," Pratt says, "Just two,
three hours maybe."

One former West Coast UP engineer-in-training quit, fearing a job that
would have put her on call seven days a week.

"I was told, 'You need to learn to go to work with sleep deprivation,'"

the former UP employee recalls. "I couldn't believe it. I feared not
only for my life, but I feared for my co-workers. I feared for the
general public."

Union Pacific, of course, fears bad public relations. Third quarter
profits, after all, are down. The last thing UP wants is a wave of
negative publicity, but the truth stings when it strikes right
between closed eyes.

And the truth is that nearly a dozen UP engineers and conductors across

the country have told me they are fatigued, afraid and battling to stay
awake.

"If anyone says he hasn't ever nodded off, he's lying," Michael says.

"That's absolutely right," adds one California conductor. "You are
fatigued all the time."

"I nodded off a couple of nights ago," a California engineer admits.
"It's frightening. I'm not a disgruntled employee. I like my job. But
Union Pacific needs to pay more attention to fatigue."

Contrast these comments with a message on UP's Web site, which reads:
"At Union Pacific, safety is No. 1."

Engineers never know when they will be called. Deciding when to sleep
is often guesswork. And sometimes, right when they prepare to lie down,
they're called in to work.

Here's the UP spin: Engineers are not allowed to spend more than 12
consecutive hours on the rails.

Here's the reality: After a 12-hour shift, some engineers wait hours
for a ride to get home or to a hotel. That's when their official day
ends, sometimes 15 or 16 hours after it begins.

One area engineer recalls working a 98-hour week.

"It was 14 hours a day, seven days in a row," he says.

Here's another UP spin: Its engineers are given a minimum of eight
hours rest between shifts.

Here's the reality: Engineers spend much of those off hours catching up

with spouses, playing with children, doing chores, showering and
eating. Little time is left for sleep.

UP says engineers have ample opportunity for rest. The railroad has a
chart showing that, in one recent 40-day work period, only four San
Antonio rail employees worked more than 34 days. UP says the chart is
typical of other systems in the country, though it did not provide
supporting evidence.

Nor did it provide any evidence to counter the claim that sleep
deprivation is a problem.

It is. The Federal Railroad Administration says fatigue was a possible
factor in two local derailments. UP says it's working on the fatigue
issue. How? It's conducting a long-term study with the FRA.

UP, how about studying this: Your engineers are dozing. Your trains are

derailing. People are dying. Wake up before the next engineer falls
asleep and gets someone killed.

-----
To contact Ken Rodriguez, call [phone] or e-mail
<mailto:[e-mail]>. His
column appears on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays.



San Antonio (TX) Express-News Op-Ed: UP engineers say they struggle to
stay awake during long hours.
By Ken Rodriguez, San Antonio Express-News, 11/21/2004
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA112104.3A.krod.77eb3bef.html

Seven train derailments in Bexar County since May, five fatalities
since June, and Union Pacific is literally asleep.

America's largest railroad opens a 24-hour safety command center here
while some if its engineers say they doze off on locomotives.

UP increases walking inspections and re-instructs managers while some
of its engineers claim they are working on two to three hours of sleep.

"I nodded off several times last night," one Texas engineer told me
Saturday morning. "It was tough to stay awake."

The engineer fears he will be fired if he discloses his name, so we'll
call him Michael. Michael says he rarely reports to work having slept
more than four hours. One day in the spring, he became overwhelmed by
exhaustion.

"I told my wife, 'I'm dreading going to work tonight, I'm afraid I'll
fall asleep and kill myself or kill somebody,'" he says. "I worry about
that all the time."

Michael's story is not uncommon, judging from the engineers I spoke
with. They said they are sleep deprived. They receive no assigned days
off. They often work 70 to 80 hours a week. Some say they've fallen
sound asleep on the job.

Fatigue sometimes is cited as a contributing factor in rail accidents,
and staffing levels long have been an issue between the railroad and
the unions representing its workers.

Keith Pratt, 68, a retired UP engineer in La Grande, Ore., says he fell

asleep once, and narrowly missed a head-on collision with another
train.

"The night before, I didn't get much sleep," Pratt says, "Just two,
three hours maybe."

One former West Coast UP engineer-in-training quit, fearing a job that
would have put her on call seven days a week.

"I was told, 'You need to learn to go to work with sleep deprivation,'"

the former UP employee recalls. "I couldn't believe it. I feared not
only for my life, but I feared for my co-workers. I feared for the
general public."

Union Pacific, of course, fears bad public relations. Third quarter
profits, after all, are down. The last thing UP wants is a wave of
negative publicity, but the truth stings when it strikes right
between closed eyes.

And the truth is that nearly a dozen UP engineers and conductors across

the country have told me they are fatigued, afraid and battling to stay
awake.

"If anyone says he hasn't ever nodded off, he's lying," Michael says.

"That's absolutely right," adds one California conductor. "You are
fatigued all the time."

"I nodded off a couple of nights ago," a California engineer admits.
"It's frightening. I'm not a disgruntled employee. I like my job. But
Union Pacific needs to pay more attention to fatigue."

Contrast these comments with a message on UP's Web site, which reads:
"At Union Pacific, safety is No. 1."

Engineers never know when they will be called. Deciding when to sleep
is often guesswork. And sometimes, right when they prepare to lie down,
they're called in to work.

Here's the UP spin: Engineers are not allowed to spend more than 12
consecutive hours on the rails.

Here's the reality: After a 12-hour shift, some engineers wait hours
for a ride to get home or to a hotel. That's when their official day
ends, sometimes 15 or 16 hours after it begins.

One area engineer recalls working a 98-hour week.

"It was 14 hours a day, seven days in a row," he says.

Here's another UP spin: Its engineers are given a minimum of eight
hours rest between shifts.

Here's the reality: Engineers spend much of those off hours catching up

with spouses, playing with children, doing chores, showering and
eating. Little time is left for sleep.

UP says engineers have ample opportunity for rest. The railroad has a
chart showing that, in one recent 40-day work period, only four San
Antonio rail employees worked more than 34 days. UP says the chart is
typical of other systems in the country, though it did not provide
supporting evidence.

Nor did it provide any evidence to counter the claim that sleep
deprivation is a problem.

It is. The Federal Railroad Administration says fatigue was a possible
factor in two local derailments. UP says it's working on the fatigue
issue. How? It's conducting a long-term study with the FRA.

UP, how about studying this: Your engineers are dozing. Your trains are

derailing. People are dying. Wake up before the next engineer falls
asleep and gets someone killed.

-----
To contact Ken Rodriguez, call [phone] or e-mail
<mailto:[e-mail]>. His
column appears on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays.

[MStLfan]

Gentlemen (no ladies here?),
Interesting thread, learned a lot.

Railroads must address this issue or have a solution placed on them by the voters and there representatives. Better be prepared and learn from best practices of other transportation modes and industries. Your not on an island.

Maybe positive train control in future will help since ATS is too costly.

Meanwhile, a nap on the job sounds like a workable interim solution. I take a nap after work at the end of the working week (mostly this happens on thursdays) and that works out just fine. 30 minutes does the trick while traveling on the train home.

Here in the Netherlands we have a form of ATS called ATB. Took the railroad 40 years to get it installed on some 3000 routekm's and only works above 40 kph! Guess at what speed all the major accidents happened over here... The system became mandatory after our biggest train crash some 40 years ago, with a law passed soon after.

Anyway, work safely and have fun while at your job or get another job.
greetings from Rotterdam in the Netherlands

[tnchpsk8]

Having come from a family of railroaders and been a long-haul trucker for thirty years there are many similarities between the two professions. ALL transportation jobs are 24/7 year round. I feel better knowing that the train crew may be tired but they are on rails and thus the dangers are fewer as compared to tired truckers sharing the highways with inattentive automobile drivers. Mile for mile if I were starting a job in the transportation industry, I would definitely choose railroading.

[zardoz]

tree68 - your description sounds like the ATC I mentioned. I never worked with ATC, but from what the guys that do say is that is is a pain in whatever. I seem to recall that they said that when you get a indication other than clear, you have a very short (30 seconds?) time to get the speed of your train reduced, which usually necessitated going to nearly full service; quite the train-handling challenge if you are drifting along in the fourth notch on some slightly hog-backed terrain.

That little notch in the 26L brake valve just past (to the right) full service was called "suppression", and that was used to prevent a penalty brake application from occurring if you could not get the speed reduced in the time allotted. It was also the position you had to go to in order to recover your air after a penalty application in ATS territory.

[daveklepper]

As far as I know that system you describe was applied by the PRR and its subsidiary LIRR in the 1930's! And the basic concept is still in use today. Including the Boston - Washington Corridor. When a train met a restrictive signal, say yellow, a brake application had to be made or the train would go into emergency. At a red signal of course a pass by would an emergency application. However, in most cases it was possible to stop and proceed at a red signal. In the acutal installation, at first, there were the correct postion light signals corrisponding to the colors noted.

In modern signalling, it is possible that antenna have replaced induction coils.

[mvlandsw]

Even if you do provide regularly scheduled rest time there is no way to insure that the time will actually be used for rest. There are many demands on people's time and rest is many times not the first priorty.

[tree68]

I recall an article - probably in Trains, a good while back - that explained one method of cab signalling that used the track circuit for it's information. Each signal aspect sent a different pulse rate down the track and an induction coil picked it up so it could be translated to an indication in the cab. If you got no signal, either the system was down, or there was something (another train) between you and the next signal. Sending the pulses out is necessary to detect occupancy, and this type of arrangement capitalizes on that.

I know it's a lot more complicated than that, but the basic concept is pretty simple. It probably has a name, but I don't recall that either...

[zardoz]

BaltACD,

Perhaps the system you refer to is different that the one used by the CNW (UP). The ATS system we used had no cab signals except for a little whistle that sounded to indicate proper acknowledgement of a wayside indication. There is an inductor by every signal, and if the signal is anything except clear, the inductor must be acknowledged as the second axle (that has the appropriate hardware mounted) passes over the wayside inductor. It is a very primative system, for the re is no connection to what the engineer is actually doing. One could run throught a red signal at 70mph, and would receive no penalty application, as long as the signal was acknowledged. It was better than nothing. It was, however, good for when the fog was so thick you could not see a signal until you were literally next to it; so if you did miss a restrictive indication, the ATS system would cause a full-service application.

It is the ATC system that has the in-cab signal aspects, and works with or without wayside signals.

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

It's too bad that the whisker doesn't detect signals.

The Alerter and Automatic Train Stop (ATS and also known as Train Control) are two different systems. Most all road locomotives are equiped wtih either Alerters or Dead Man controls. Automatic Train Stop systems are only in place on a small number of the routes the railtroads operate. ATS also generally has cab displayed signal information in addition to the wayside signals. There are multiple ATS installations and they are not all compatable with each other.

I don't know what the cost factor is for installing ATS over and above a 'normal' signal system, however, it has to be considerable as not only does the wayside signal system have to be put in place for ATS, but the lead locomotive of every train must be appropriately equipped.

All of the above also begs the question of train delays that occur in ATS territory account of failures to the ATS equipment, either wayside or on the locomotive.

ATS to date has been a very expensive proposition that few railroads have voluntarily undertaken.

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard



On the phone, she sounds like a Novaline too....you get excited just getting called to work!

Reminds me of when I worked for a CPA firm, about two lifetimes ago. The receptionist wasn't anything special to look at, but her voice was about 25 on a scale of 1 to 10. She had the sexiest bedroom voice I have ever heard anywhere, without exception. Makes me break out in a sweat just thinking about it. Guys who called the office would ask her for dates (or propose shocking indecencies) sight unseen. This was before the days of the porno 900 phone numbers, but she would have been perfect for that work. Cowabunga!!

[jockellis]

When we lived in Waycross, GA, our pastor's wife got a job calling train crews. I told her she should write a book called, "The Preacher's Wife Was A Callgirl."
Jock Ellis

[Junctionfan]

It's too bad that the whisker doesn't detect signals.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Ed: That's just gross.....(gaging)

L.C: That incident involving Amtrak train; doesn't the engineer have to flick a metallic switch once in a while otherwise the train will go into emergency? So how did he manage to get passed two signals?

P.S to everybody: What is T&E? (feeling silly for asking)

Andrew-

You are speaking of the "whisker" of the alertor. Not brushing the whisker every so often causes the alertor to make progressively louder noise (what noise depends upon what type of alertor). If the engineer still doesn't respond by touching the whisker or making a brake application for a set period of time the alertor will automatically apply a penalty application of the train brakes bringing the train to a stop. That is what happened with the Amtrak train. Luckily, it came to a stop short of the CSX train who's crew had put their train into emergency and jumped.Unfortunately, by the time the train was brought to a stop it had passed two signals and run through an interlocking switch bringing it on to the same track as the opposing CSX train.

Oh and as Ed said T&E = Train and Engine service

LC

[edblysard]

Andrew,
Yes, it was...very, very gross....

T&E.

It used to stand for Trainmen and Enginemen, but now it is Train and Engine employees...

Way too many ladies working on the railroad to keep it masculine.

Ed

[Junctionfan]

Ed: That's just gross.....(gaging)

L.C: That incident involving Amtrak train; doesn't the engineer have to flick a metallic switch once in a while otherwise the train will go into emergency? So how did he manage to get passed two signals?

P.S to everybody: What is T&E? (feeling silly for asking)

[edblysard]

We have a crew caller named Novaline....
just let your imaganation run with it......

On the phone, she sounds like a Novaline too....you get excited just getting called to work!

In real life, she looks like Dolly Parton, at 90 years old.

I made the mistake once (within her hearing range) of asking how she managed to keep "them" up like that...

Then made the mistake of looking when she showed everybody....

man, I couldnt eat for a week!

Ed[^]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD

QUOTE: Originally posted by jockellis

After seeing Miss Iceberg Lettuce in that veggie tale, I didn't have much time to read Mark's piece, but let me get this straight. You get to get out of the house at all hours of the night without your wife being suspicious? And you get paid for it?
Jock Ellis

Besides, T&E personnel get called at all hours of the day and night by sweet young things telling them it is time to go to work....(this also applies to the Female T&E emplyoees getting called at all hours of the day or night by a hunk)....

The spouse becomes suspicious when the take home $$$ doesn't equal the time away from home.

I dunno, the women who are callers never struck me as "Hotties"...

My wife always insists I have a girl at the away terminal. Problem is I work to 3 or 4 away terminals...I'm just not THAT much of a stud...lol...(I wish)...

LC

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jockellis

After seeing Miss Iceberg Lettuce in that veggie tale, I didn't have much time to read Mark's piece, but let me get this straight. You get to get out of the house at all hours of the night without your wife being suspicious? And you get paid for it?
Jock Ellis

Besides, T&E personnel get called at all hours of the day and night by sweet young things telling them it is time to go to work....(this also applies to the Female T&E emplyoees getting called at all hours of the day or night by a hunk)....

The spouse becomes suspicious when the take home $$$ doesn't equal the time away from home.

[edblysard]

Oh yes, always working, always!

Ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Dude....

Shush.............


Ed[:D]

FOFLMAO...

We are WORKING!! We never get out of the house just to go tomcatting around...right Ed?

LOL

LC

[edblysard]

Dude....

Shush.............


Ed[:D]

[jockellis]

After seeing Miss Iceberg Lettuce in that veggie tale, I didn't have much time to read Mark's piece, but let me get this straight. You get to get out of the house at all hours of the night without your wife being suspicious? And you get paid for it?
Jock Ellis

[BigJim]

Around here, road crews get 10 hrs. undisturbed rest at the home terminal. We have an agreement at my away from terminal for 8hrs. undisturbed rest because we have to be transported about 30 min. to the motel.

Road crews also have a rest day agreement. Every ten days they can opt for two days rest. Extra list can take 24 hrs. rest if they have seven straight starts (without losing a day).

In reading this thread, I have some real problems with some of the posters. First of all, there was a question about trusting crews with trains when they are tired. Well, what goes around comes around. How can I trust any of you at your jobs when you are tired?
ESPECIALLY... the tired person wanting to get home from work and doesn't pay any attention when they pull over a road crossing in front of a train!
Others paint a picture of doom and gloom that just isn't there.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Colin

LC

I know that Gunpow wasn't about sleep deprivation or fatigue issues. It was about alcohol and drug use among on duty train crews. I was using it as an example of what it is, a defining moment in American railroad operation and regulation. Engineer certification after being over hundred years a completely inhouse affair became a federal government matter almost overnight. Due to the public outrage and outcry.

I mentioned the union Carbide Haz-Mat Incident in Bhopol, India as possible type of incident that can bring again to the RR industry the same kind of outrage and outcry from the public that Ricky Gates brought on. To think that this possibilty is in some realm of fantasy is to delude oneself. Like the possiblity of suicide terrorist using fully fuel jetliners as cruise missiles to slam into American skycrapers.

Talk about Socialism vs.Capitalism all you want. Safety is not behold to economic system it is common sense. If the RR don't self regulate now they open up themselves to the imposition of regulation maybe over regulation from an angry public balance sheets be damned. Just like the hubris of RR management of the 19th Century brought about the the draconian ICC.

Rgemed,
I know that scheduling is not a panacea but a step in right direction. Again look at the Aviation industry! Yes I know the passenger is loosing ton and tons of money per day but the freight side is quite robust. Ask UPS and FedEx.

Rgemed,
Why do some railroaders think that they are the only profession that does not work 9 to 5. I am a "Narco Ranger" for the NYPD and today I will have worked over 24 hours straight w/o sleep doing arrest processing. So I know about "lifestyle"! But that no excuse for working safely and going home to your families in one piece.

Colin, I don't think that railroaders are the only profession that does not work 9 to 5. Your career is a perfect example of my point. You said you were working 24 straight hours w/o sleep in a safety sensitive job. Now, do you think I as a general citizen have a right to suggest that you are unsafe because you work to much. No, I don't, and neither do you when it comes to railroading

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

As a total aside, I think most of the people responding to arbfbe's observation about Soviet railroads completely missed his point. He wasn't advocating we adopt a Soviet-style command economy, but observing that everyone's favorite whipping boy for how not to run an industrialized economy ironically managed to do some things better than our own ostensibly perfect system, and further, pointing out that our unquestioned obedience to the belief that the free market will shower everyone with a wonderful life is demonstrably untrue, and that our pursuit of "lowest prices every day" eventually predicates "lowest wages every day," too. (If I mischaracterized you, arb, let me know!)

At last capitalist who is honest about some of shortcomings of our system not merely blindly cheerleading!! (And no I am not a communist !!) ((Solidarity Forever!! just kidding))

I am not suggest we turn 10,000 ton coal drags into 75 MPH rockets like in Europe or that all T&E work according to a three daily shift method like factories or patrolman (of which I am not at present). Just better management of people and other resources that take into account that people may want to enjoy life away from the RR and to preserve their health. Iadmitt Iam learning about your industry but in mine I have seen too many old timers die within one or two after retirement.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

LC, you forgot to add that the Amtrak engineer that fell asleep was AFAIK assigned to a fixed, predictable, tour of duty, whereas the CSX crew whose alertness saved the day was AFAIK in chain-gang pool service.

Mark-

You are correct on both counts.

LC