Why The Goverment should repo Union Pacific!

[garr]

Ed,

Great replies, I only wish my wordsmithing was as elegant.

Jay

[Anonymous]

Common Guys

what the hell is this?

Andrew Bashing time?

grow up.

[DaveBr]

Why is everyone a little angry at all these RRs? Is it because they all lost their Cabooses?

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DaveBr

Why is everyone a little angry at all these RRs? Is it because they all lost their Cabooses?

IMHO, it's because railroads seem to have gone from "local" businesses with character to faceless mega-corporations. While we cannot deny that financial matters have always driven RRs, it now seems that money is all they care about.

Anyone who has been through the process of having a Wal-Mart or other "big box" store propose opening in their town will recall the controversy that accompanied it. Forecast: The little, local stores will close, taking with them the personal touch.

It would seem that railroads have taken that path. Granted, it's been going on for quite a while, but now that we're down to 7 transcons and a few regionals, well, it shows.

[Junctionfan]

If you people are having such a hard time staying respectful to other forum members, than maybe you shouldn't be here. This forum is for friendly people to talk, learn and debate; not patronize and belittle.

[garr]

Junctionfan,

If your above reply was in reference to my question, I did not mean to belittle you. I only asked it because I have been away from the forum over the holiday and was having trouble following your reasoning as I read this thread. The US is a representative republic (not a democracy as some believe) and most of what you suggest seems to be more appropriate for a socialist or fascist government. As I have stated before, capitalism and individual/corporate property rights are two of the main factors of the United States' strenght. The title of this thread flies in the face of what the US is all about. (Not to mention that the government doesn't hold the note on Union Pacific so there is no way it can "repo" the UP.)

[dharmon]

"Grandad did you fight in the war?"

"World War Two? I'm not that old."

"No the other one."

"Korea, Vietnam? No."

"No, the big one?"

"Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom? No."

"No Grandad, THE BIG ONE, The Great Texas-Canadian war of '04. Over whether or not UP should be broken up and turned into governmental sponsored health care providers run by Donald Trump....."

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard


This is one of the few nations on earth were the individule isn't subordinate to the state, and where individule freedoms don't take a back seat to the needs of the government.
Our nation was founded, in part, on the concept that the right of the citizens come first, before the needs of the government, and that the government was, and still is, a instrument of the citizens will and wishes.

Here, outside military and national emergencies, our goverment can not "pass laws" or alter exsisting laws without the consent of the people.

*cough cough* "Patriot Act" *cough cough*

Actually Ed, The entire post that the above was excerpted from, was pretty darn good, overall, but I have to take minor exception to the actual worth of the language above, simply for the strong capability of the spinmeisters promulgating our policy to "trump up" any set of perceived conditions they feel "threatened" by. The post 9/11 pandemonium being the latest good example, in which our government quickly saw good reason to start cutting the bill of rights (our most sacred document) to shreds, in the spirit of "responding to the emergency", and to quickly brand ANY opposed 9to the new priority)as being "unamerican".

In a nut shell, it goes; "surrender your freedoms so that it will be easier to protect you" and a surprising quantity of citizens are ready to say "OK" without really even thinking about it.

Lets not forget who declares the "state of emergency" in the first place, creating the environment within which any "emergency measures" in response can be rubberstamped into existance.


Under a hypothetical total meltdown of UP,..how long do you think it would take our leaders to declare a state of emergency, IF they had a mind to do so and an agenda to dismantle they wished to pursue?

I would imagine the 10 oclock news would be full of loops showing produce rotting in freight cars, and electric utilities running dangerously low on coal to burn, and expect American Living rooms would be full of demands for action, about the time subsequent electric rations caused rolling blackouts in conflict with Prime time TV...

[dharmon]

And all those white box cars with shackles full of political prisoners....got to keep the merchandise moving!

[daveklepper]

The UP isn't going to melt down again. They are turning away business instead. This makes a lot if shippers unhappy. But they will handle the business they receive. The USA Government is not going to seize private property just because some manufacturors' transortation costs have doubled. Nor does that sort of thing show up on TV sets. So the whole question is rediculous. And just maybe some UP will executives will take some lessons from the good old Southerners that run NS and start running a shipper responsive smooth well oiled transportation machine.

[edblysard]

Antigates,
Noticed I said, "except in military and national emergiencies"...
although I am surprised that these morons runing the show didn't use 9/11 to delcare matrial law, suspend the entire Bill of Rights, and send out their version of the gestapo...
One look at Rumsfiel(sp?) reminds me that, you can take the man out of Germany, but you cant take the Nazi out of the man...
Hitler would have loved this guy, jewish sounding name and all....

Garr...thanks, I was wondering when someone other than myself would ask that question...and for once, someone bothered to call our form of government by something other than the mis-used democracy.
In a true democracy, every single person has a vote, and every single person has to agree, 100%, on any issue or law, because in a true democracy, every single vote carries the same weight, its a all or nothing form of goverrnment.

Kevin, although it may appear differently to you, I am not bashing Andrew...I am try to get him to think, before he types.
(sound familiar?)
He has made broad, contrdicting statements on the US political and business system, without the benefit of first hand knowledge of either system.
Sorta like me telling you whats "wrong" with Canada, and making such comments in public, without ever having lived or worked there.

Read what I wrote real carefully, and you will notice that I never once insulted Canada, nor did I make any ill worded statements about your country, nor its form of government.
All I did was angle the mirror a little, so some of the brown sticky stuff Andrew was flinging about bounced back at him....
I e-mailed him in an attempt to start a off forum line of conversation, so he has a chance to respond in the clearest fashion possible, with out having to follow the constraints of the forum, what you would refer to as talking straight..so far, no luck.

Part of the problem is no one is really clear which government Andrew is talking about when he makes such broad statements as the government should take over UP....and I dont think he sees the difference between his form of government, and mine.

You see the difference, because you have studied it, are a bright guy, and are open to other peoples input.
And your smart enough to understand that just because its written in a book dosn't make it true or correct.
Take his statement that the American Civil war was started to abolish slavery...
nonsense...it occured because the northen states had industrialized, and needed more raw material than the agricultural south could produce, and wanted the south to do away with the manual labor force(slaves) in favor of the increased production industrial agriculture would bring about.
Not a darn thing about human rights, just about money...
Notice that, although the good guys, the north, won, racisim didnt go away, and still hasen't, after a century and a half has passed?


All I am trying to do is get him to take his foot out of his mouth a little, (he has it just about ankle deep so far) and his head out of his ***, (he has that pretty deep too) and look around a little, before he decides to tell the rest of us what we are doing wrong.
He complains, but offers no real workable solution to his complaints, other than "the government should run it for us".
If he means the US Federal government should, then thats a scary thought.

The current crop in Washington seem to need very little prompting, and are only a few steps away from breaking out the swastikias, they are already looking for a way to re-creat the SS...

Ed