Trains.com

Another railfan arrested!

26956 views
107 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: MP 175.1 CN Neenah Sub
  • 4,917 posts
Posted by CNW 6000 on Friday, August 5, 2011 1:06 PM

He follows the waves of other crewmembers.

Dan

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Friday, August 5, 2011 1:30 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 zugmann:

 

This is why you only railfan on foggy days.

 

  But....but....  if it's too foggy to see the trains, how does the engineer know where to drive? Whistling

 

 

Follow the goats.  They know.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Friday, August 5, 2011 1:40 PM

I figured they would just follow the tracks left by the train that is in front of them.

My Dad said you could always tell when a train had been in the area...  because you could see its tracks.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: BF Jct
  • 70 posts
Posted by EightNSand on Thursday, August 18, 2011 8:18 PM

Recent Summary of newly enacted New York State RR Trespassing Laws:

The bill includes several changes to the state’s current statutes applicable to railroad trespassing:

Section 1: Personal Trespass on Railroad Property: Section 140.10 of the Penal Law is amended to prohibit trespassing by individuals on foot on all railroad property statewide. Previously, this section only applied to railroad property located in New York City, Long Island and Monroe County. The penalty for violation this section is a Class B Misdemeanor, punishable by a maximum three months jail and a $500 fine.

Section 2: Trespassing on Railroad Property While Riding a Motor Vehicle, Recreational Vehicle or Horse or Other Animal: Section 83-A of the Railroad Law is amended to prohibit individuals from trespassing on railroad property while riding on any motor vehicle (inc. motorcycles), recreational vehicle (inc. all-terrain vehicles) and any horse or other animal. Previously, this law only applied to persons riding on snowmobiles (a separate section prohibits the riding of animals on railroad property, but only imposed a $10 fine plus damages). The penalty for violating this section is increased from a $100 fine per offense to a $100-$250 fine for a first offense and a $250-$500 fine for each subsequent offense.

Previous versions of the bill included language to prohibit defacing and tampering with RR property, including tampering offenses that result in a disruption of service.  After negotiations, it was determined that these offenses are already covered under Article 145 of the Penal Law as follows:


  • Defacing Railroad Property: Section 145.00 of the Penal Law (Criminal Mischief in the Fourth Degree) prohibits any intentional damage done to RR property. This offense is a Class A Misdemeanor (Max. 1 year jail, $1,000 fine).
  • Tampering with Railroad Property: Section 145.15 of the Penal Law (Criminal Tampering in the Second Degree) prohibits tampering with the property of common carriers, which are defined in the Railroad Law as all RR’s doing business in NYS. This offense is a Class A Misdemeanor (Max. 1 year jail, $1,000 fine).
  • Tampering with Railroad Property that Disrupts Service: Section 145.20 of the Penal Law (Criminal Tampering in the First Degree) prohibits tampering activities that cause a substantial interruption or impairment of service provided by common carriers (all RR’s doing business in NYS). This offense is a Class D Felony (1-7 years jail, Max. $5,000 fine).

 

In addition, previous versions also contained language that would prohibit tampering activities that result in the serious injury or death of another person. Again, it was determined that these offenses are already covered by the Penal Law as follows:

 


  • Actions that Cause Serious Injury: Section 120.05 of the Penal Law (Assault in the Second Degree) prohibits intentional or reckless actions that result in serious injury to another person. This offense is a Class D Felony (1-7 years jail, Max. $5,000 fine).
  • Actions that Result in Death: Section 125.15 of the Penal Law (Manslaughter in the Second Degree) prohibits reckless actions that cause the death of another person. This offense is a Class C Felony (1-15 years jail, Max. $5,000 fine).

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Huntsville, Alabama
  • 207 posts
Posted by jimnorton on Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:15 PM

When are we ever going to hear about trespassing graffiti vandals being detained or arrested?  We hear about railfans but never anything about these vandals which have defaced 80% of the nation's boxcars.

Jim Norton

Huntsville, AL

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:19 PM

They are faster than a rolling doughnut!

jimnorton

When are we ever going to hear about trespassing graffiti vandals being detained or arrested?  We hear about railfans but never anything about these vandals which have defaced 80% of the nation's boxcars.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    April 2011
  • From: Georgia
  • 285 posts
Posted by Georgia Railroader on Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:28 PM

BaltACD

They are faster than a rolling doughnut!

 jimnorton:

When are we ever going to hear about trespassing graffiti vandals being detained or arrested?  We hear about railfans but never anything about these vandals which have defaced 80% of the nation's boxcars.

 

 

This. And the fact they are slick

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • 673 posts
Posted by Sawtooth500 on Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:46 PM

I've long been a proponent of cops focusing on "real" crime - stuff that actually causes quantifiable damage instead of harmless stuff like harassing rail fans for trespassing. I know someone is going to disagree with me here but the fact is we only have limited police resources so why waste them for stuff like say, pulling someone over for rolling a stop when there is real, destructive crime around? Just go to the south side of Chicago for a night and see what goes on there - that's where police should be focusing their resources.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • 673 posts
Posted by Sawtooth500 on Friday, August 19, 2011 10:23 AM

Here I got some work for the cops:

7 Shot in Chicago Overnight

I suggest they take care of that before spending time going after trespassers and even taggers. 

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Osage City, Kansas
  • 94 posts
Posted by MOPACnut on Thursday, August 25, 2011 7:11 AM

Taranwanderer

After reading this entire thread, here are my observations:

-The kid was probably not doing anything harmful or illegal, except possibly stepping on the ROW, which we'll never know for sure without some significant video evidence.  All we have is the (multiple) cops' word.

-The police, while they were acting in the public interest, could have handled the situation better.  Much better.  Personally, I think many cops are kids that were picked on when they were little and now have a "power trip" complex as adults.  Not all of them.  But a significant portion of them (25%, as someone posted earlier?)  They just seem to like "getting back" at all those people that abused them when they were younger.  This doesn't lessen the respect I have for the job that they do, but it's a fact.  I'm a law-abiding, concealed-carry permit holding citizen, and when I'm asked by cops for ID, (and I provide both my drivers license and my CC permit,) I usually get hassled.

-Take pics from an overpass, not next to the tracks.  Get over it.

Doing that can get you in trouble:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJarO8zesQc

The kicker is it was a CSX COP Huh? .

I'll say it: There's some cops out there who fully deserve to be called pigs. They abuse their power (one of the reasons many don't like to be recorded). I myself have never been stopped for railfanning (IDK maybe railfanning freight lines out in the country has advantages). One guy I know has been harassed before, including a deputy who said you had to be 200' from the tracks.

Personally I do call BS in the actions theose cops took. I think the only way to solve this problem is a massive letter writing, protesting, informal meeting campaign. 

I preferr "Rail" over "trail".
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:49 AM

And I'll say this:

 

There are some (a minority, I'm sure) railfans that are trespassers and thieves.  Many cops do not really understand the railfanning hobby, and it probably doesn't help when the only time they see many railfans is when something special is on the tracks, and every moronic railfan is out acting like a nutcase (trespassing on various private properties, holding up traffic to "pace", speeding like madmen to get in position for another photo, etc...)

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 762 posts
Posted by kolechovski on Sunday, August 28, 2011 3:21 PM

" holding up traffic to "pace"

-You know, those speed limits are just limits!  It is NOT a mandate of how fast you must go.  As long as you are not going obcenely slow to cause an obvious hazard, how can pacing be bad in any way?  Sure, the speeders will get ticked off at you, but only for a few moments before they illegally pass you over the yellow lines.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, August 28, 2011 4:17 PM

All CSX field personnel are schooled in CSX's '3 R' program.  Recognize - Record - Report.

Employees seeing something, anything that strikes them as being other than the ordinary are to record the details of the occurrence and report it to CSX's Police Command Center. 

There is a 15 minute training video devoted to the program that is a part of the yearly Operating Rules class for all operating personnel - Officers - M of W personnel - Train & Engine Service personnel - all personnel who's duties take them out on the property.  We are still in the aftermath of 9/11/2001 and the 'evil doer's' have announced that transportation facilities and equipment are among their desired targets.  While a railfan my view himself as innocuous ... a rail employee may view the same individual as suspicious.

Paranoia - maybe, however, it is better to err on the side of investigating the situation.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Osage City, Kansas
  • 94 posts
Posted by MOPACnut on Sunday, August 28, 2011 5:09 PM

BaltACD

All CSX field personnel are schooled in CSX's '3 R' program.  Recognize - Record - Report.

Employees seeing something, anything that strikes them as being other than the ordinary are to record the details of the occurrence and report it to CSX's Police Command Center. 

There is a 15 minute training video devoted to the program that is a part of the yearly Operating Rules class for all operating personnel - Officers - M of W personnel - Train & Engine Service personnel - all personnel who's duties take them out on the property.  We are still in the aftermath of 9/11/2001 and the 'evil doer's' have announced that transportation facilities and equipment are among their desired targets.  While a railfan my view himself as innocuous ... a rail employee may view the same individual as suspicious.

Paranoia - maybe, however, it is better to err on the side of investigating the situation.

Yeah, but issuing someone a warning for trespassing when they were never on CSX property?

I preferr "Rail" over "trail".
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Sunday, August 28, 2011 5:49 PM

kolechovski

" holding up traffic to "pace"

-You know, those speed limits are just limits!  It is NOT a mandate of how fast you must go.  As long as you are not going obcenely slow to cause an obvious hazard, how can pacing be bad in any way?  Sure, the speeders will get ticked off at you, but only for a few moments before they illegally pass you over the yellow lines.

Many roads do have minimums as well.  But even if driving way below the speed limit is not illegal, it is moronic. And that shows the cop what the "hobby is about". (no regard for anything else but a perfect photograph or video).

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: BF Jct
  • 70 posts
Posted by EightNSand on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 1:10 AM

The limit is an upper limit. Another xection of NY's Vehicle and Traffic Law provides authority to ticket and punish for "speed unsafe for conditions" which could (and has) been used to ticket folks going dangerously slow for no good reason as well.

8 n' Sand 

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • 762 posts
Posted by kolechovski on Wednesday, September 7, 2011 1:27 PM

"As long as you are not going obcenely slow to cause an obvious hazard, how can pacing be bad in any way?"

-This is why I mentioned this line.  There is a difference from not going the full speed limit (or over as most do) vs. going way too slow.  Most of our pacings will be a bit below the limits, not rediculously slow.  People who want to go that slow usually find a safe place to do so, where traffic coming up behind them can easily see them and react appropriately.  Many railfans will even try to stay along the sides or further assist people in getting safely around them if they're going that slow.

In any state, anyone can be pulled over and warned or ticketed for going too slow, if it's so slow as to create a hazard, but most of the time that won't apply here given that this situation is often avoided by various means.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy