No extruded insulation foam so what now?

You might try calling an insulation installer.  Also, I think Home Depot might be able to order it.  At least these are solutions I've heard in the past.  HD here (Tucson) does not carry it, Lowe's does have one size, 2' x 8' ' 1" if I remember correctly.

Don't Woodland Scenic sell it? They might be a bit pricey but that is a way to get it unless you need lots of it.

Magnus

BNSF4ever wrote:

I'm building a new shelf layout and almost certainly need foam board or something to lay on top of the plywood because of the various heights of the tables and shelves that line my apartment so everything can be relatively level. The only problem is that in the San Francisco Bay Area, finding extruded insulation foam board is next to impossible and if you do find it in a craft shop, you only find one or two pieces. So if that is out, what else can I use as a material?

This product would be used in the higher elevations, say at Tahao etc. I would call around to Home Depots and builder's suppliers in that area. A trip may be in order if you do get lucky.

You can't just confine yourself to Lowe's and Home Depot.

I got my 2" extruded foam at a specialty builder's supply store since here in North Carolina Lowe's and Home Depot only carry 1/2" and 3/4."

Lillen wrote:

Don't Woodland Scenic sell it? They might be a bit pricey but that is a way to get it unless you need lots of it.   Magnus

The Woodland Scenics product is more like beadboard, although of a slightly different makeup than the stuff commonly found as packing material in TVs and appliances.  The difference is noted when you cut it with a saw -- beadboard creates its own special kind of mess that is for sure.   I seem to recall the W_S material is safer when cut with a hot knife or foam cutter but that may be just what they say.   But nonetheless the W-S product is likely to be found at a good LHS and may be just what you need.

I have NOT tried this or done this but I wonder if a series of contructed molds, perhaps of heavy cardboard, covered with waxed paper to prevent sticking, could be used with expanding foam from a spray can, to create the relatively level situation you are looking for. 

 Dave Nelson

BNSF4ever wrote:

I'm building a new shelf layout and almost certainly need foam board or something to lay on top of the plywood because of the various heights of the tables and shelves that line my apartment so everything can be relatively level. The only problem is that in the San Francisco Bay Area, finding extruded insulation foam board is next to impossible and if you do find it in a craft shop, you only find one or two pieces. So if that is out, what else can I use as a material?

An acquaintance of mine says you can get extruded foam here:

Pacific Supply
1735 24th St.
Oakland

510-832-5724

I haven't tried them myself, but it wouldn't hurt to give them a call.

Andre

LOL!!! Need a cup of jo, lothar....???? San Fran isn' THAT bad... in fact it is one of my favorite cities on the West Coast!

LOL!!!

Brian

(Sucking down my own coffee so I am not cranky!)

reklein wrote:

If its that hard to find ,forget the foam and go to plywood. Its probably cleaner to work with and stronger than foam in the long run. I feel that foam has its place but is not the cureall for layout construction.

I'd like to echo this by asking you to take a step back and help us understand what it is you are really trying to accomplish with the foam. As reklein pointed out, foam is just one method of creating scenery, but by no means is it the only way of creating scenery. If it's that hard to find, I'd say go with a traditional plaster/hydrocal/glue shell type scenery.

You mentioned that you needed the foam because of the different levels of the "tables" in your space... what exactly is it you want the foam to do? Is there anything else more readily available that can do the same thing? When you say "table," are you referring to different sections of your benchwork at different levels, or are you referring to actual tables, which are obstacles to your layout design?

If you could give us a little more detail on your space and situation (photos/sketches would be helpful, if you could swing it), we might be able to offer suggestions for non-foam solutions.

A number of layouts I've been involved with here in the bay area are built with foam, so it's possible to buy it with a little effort. Pacific Supply in the East Bay is one source, already noted earlier in the thread. They also have a branch in South San Francisco

Pacific Supply
1675 Mission Rd
S San Francisco, CA 94080
(415) 285-1010

They don't stock the foam in S. SF, but will order any amount of the Dow (blue) foam with no minimum.

I've posted this dealer-finder info before, but it might be worth doing so again.

When using either of these dealer finder methods, be aware that many dealers they list do not actually stock the material, so you must phone first! In particular, they will list many Home Depot stores which do not have the stuff in stock. Phone first, then drive.

Dow (maker of the blue foam) has a phone number for locating large dealers:
(866) 583-2583

In my experience, they often will not have a large dealer to whom they sell directly in warm-weather areas, so they refer you to nationwide distributors, who in turn will refer you to a dealer. Call the dealer names they give you first, before driving.

By the way, Dow has a dizzying variety of blue foam products. The standard stuff that most people use for model railroading applications is called "Styrofoam Square Edge".
http://www.dow.com/styrofoam/na/res-us/products/square_edge.htm

Owens-Corning makes the pink foam, which they call Foamular. Their dealer finder is online:
http://www.owenscorning.com/around/locator/StoreInfo.asp

Did I mention to call first, then drive? Again, the dealer-finders will list many big-box home supply stores, but in warm-weather areas, most of these do not have the foam in stock. You know, it might be a good idea to phone first ...

Byron

Certainly there are places to find  foam, however, I will echo what several others have said and suggest you consider other alternatives. 

Perhaps the best overall roadbed of all time is homasote over plywood. IF you cannot find homasote, you may be able to find Soundbord, which, at my North Denver area Lowes AND HD is 1/2" thick, coming in 4*8 sheets at just under $10 bucks.  Holds track nails wonderfully, cuts as easily as foam with some fuzz dust which I find easy to vacuum up.

I'll offer a reason and rationale why San Fran may make foam hard to find, it comes from oil, not a renewable resource like plywood, homasote or soundboard.

On my layout I have found foam to be useful only for mountain profile boards and for flat areas being scenic'd, like foundatins of buildings etc.

My 2 cents worth nothing more.

Joe 

joe-daddy wrote:

I'll offer a reason and rationale why San Fran may make foam hard to find, it comes from oil, not a renewable resource like plywood, homasote or soundboard.

That's got nothing to do with it, Foamboard's just not used as much in construction in our warm climate.

loathar wrote:

Move.

ha ha, good one,

 construction site, new homes? Stucco guys sometimes wrap the house with foam before they scratch and brown coat. There's always scraps and extras in the trash pile. Call a STUCCO company and see if they have some. it might only be 1 inch thick but you can white glue or hot glue it together.

 glenn

cuyama wrote:

joe-daddy wrote: I'll offer a reason and rationale why San Fran may make foam hard to find, it comes from oil, not a renewable resource like plywood, homasote or soundboard. That's got nothing to do with it, Foamboard's just not used as much in construction in our warm climate.

cuyama,

You might want to try aircraft supply dealers, it is used in a lot of composite aircraft applications, and especially in radio control model aircraft projects.I  also build and fly RC airplanes, and have many friends scattered al over California who use it regularly, both pink and blue foam, actually the same stuff.
They cut wings for large scale model airplanes and sailplanes(gliders) from foam.

Check with any of your local hobby shops to see if they know of any suppliers.

Good luck!
Ed

joe-daddy wrote:

Perhaps the best overall roadbed of all time is homasote over plywood...Holds track nails wonderfully, cuts as easily as foam with some fuzz dust which I find easy to vacuum up.

Joe,

Doesn't homasote have a natural inclination/propensity to soak up moisture?  What happens when you want to lay/set ballast?  Are there precautions that need to be taken so that the homasote doesn't absorb too much of the water/glue mixture while scenicking?

Tom 

loathar wrote:

Move.

 HAHAHAHAHAHA!

tstage wrote:

Doesn't homasote have a natural inclination/propensity to soak up moisture?

Urban legend, apparently. The Homasote company recently did a test where they left the stuff outdoors in New Jersey for a couple of years with little change.
http://www.homasote.com/strength/index.html

BNSF4ever wrote:

I'm building a new shelf layout and almost certainly need foam board or something to lay on top of the plywood because of the various heights of the tables and shelves that line my apartment so everything can be relatively level.

I think you have a problem other than finding foam.  Even if you lay foam on top of the plywood the surface will still be uneven.  It seems to me that the real question is how do you get the layout surface level or how do I get the layout surface to where I want it even if the supports aren't level.From that standpoint I would suggest an open grid type benchwork with bolt on "mini-legs".  Put a T nut and carrige bolt in the bottom of each leg to level the layout.  You can adjust the lengths of the legs to fit the various surfaces each grid section rests on.  Best news:  If you move you can unbolt the mini-legsand replace them with longer legs to make a free standing layout.  Or if you move you can adjust the height of the mini-legs to match the new supports.  If you cut the foam to match the suport heights and you move the layouts will be uneven again unless you get the exact match of support heights.  By making the layout level and using the legs to adjust the height you gain waaaay more flexibility with very little increas in complexity.  Search for "modular layout" design or construction and look at how their legs are made.  Just make the legs 4-6 in tall instead of 40" tall.

Dave H.

cuyama wrote:

joe-daddy wrote: I'll offer a reason and rationale why San Fran may make foam hard to find, it comes from oil, not a renewable resource like plywood, homasote or soundboard. That's got nothing to do with it, Foamboard's just not used as much in construction in our warm climate.

Sorry, I've had my pot of coffee now...
I don't see it used much here in Tn. either. They just built 3 home next to me and I was thinking-Oh BOY!! FOAM SCRAPS! They didn't use a single piece. The home stores here do stock it though.
Doesn't foam help keep heat out too?

Wow what a response!

I live in an apartment so that really limits my options. I would have liked to have built a shelf layout but I doubt my landlord would have enjoyed tons of screw holes in the walls. I did try one section just the same and the studs were so limited or perhaps deep in the wall that using shelves was never going to work.

There are two other problems in my bedroom. There is a hallway and a doorway to be overcome. I don't want a traditional shelf layout which has no runthrough track. I would like to have a few trains running in circles while I do other operations.

What I have is a hodgepodge so far based on my space, limited budget, and limited carpentry skills. 

On one side, I have two four-foot high tables which are 2 x 4 feet for a total of 2 x 8. I have extended the one table using two brackets and a 2 x 2. Thus, the total length of that side is 10 feet. On the right side, I plan on putting in a 4 x 7 foot table (4 x 8 won't fit). On the side closest to the door, I built another 2 x 4 table and used brackets to extend it with a 2 x 2 to make it 6 feet. I plan on buiding a removable "bridge" using an angled piece from 1 x 5. This will have two bolts on each end which will fit into brackets on the tables and shelves that it connects to. This way I can pull it up and out when not in use to get access to the door.

On the last side of my room, I have the only shelf section, which is 2 x 2. It connects to a 1 x 5 plank which connects in the same way as just described to the 2 x 10 set of tables first mentioned. 

Out of all these components, not all are level. This is due to a) my carpentry skills or lack thereof and b) the one shelf is mounted in about the only place on the wall that will hold it in the studs.

So if you follow all that, I am hoping to use foamular to make up some of the difference in height as well as being able to use it to cut into for things like a small creek.

My layout will never win any awards from Model Railroader but I feel it's the best I can do with my budget and my living circumstances. 

loathar wrote:

Doesn't foam help keep heat out too?

Yep.  Pretty much every house I've seen built in the Tucson area has a layer of foam on it.  Unfortunately they almost universally use the white stuff, so not so good for scrap scavenging!

loathar wrote:

cuyama wrote:  joe-daddy wrote: I'll offer a reason and rationale why San Fran may make foam hard to find, it comes from oil, not a renewable resource like plywood, homasote or soundboard. That's got nothing to do with it, Foamboard's just not used as much in construction in our warm climate. Sorry, I've had my pot of coffee now... I don't see it used much here in Tn. either. They just built 3 home next to me and I was thinking-Oh BOY!! FOAM SCRAPS! They didn't use a single piece. The home stores here do stock it though. Doesn't foam help keep heat out too? keeps heat and cold out ( ice chest! ). some builders use it others don,t. I live in the desert. When I built my house I used 2x6 studs for all exterior walls, wraped with that chicken wire black paper, 1 inch foam, scratch coat, brown coat, color coat. Construction sites offer many items for a layout  and General contractors will give you the scraps as long as you don,t make a mess and ask permission first. They have to take it to a dump anyway. wood, wire, foam, extra drywall mud,Screws on the ground , sometimes extra paint. Just don,t steal it, big fines if your caught. glenn (painting contractor)

tstage wrote:

joe-daddy wrote: Perhaps the best overall roadbed of all time is homasote over plywood...Holds track nails wonderfully, cuts as easily as foam with some fuzz dust which I find easy to vacuum up. Joe, Doesn't homasote have a natural inclination/propensity to soak up moisture?  What happens when you want to lay/set ballast?  Are there precautions that need to be taken so that the homasote doesn't absorb too much of the water/glue mixture while scenicking? Tom

I don't know, Tom, I paint my soundboard to seal it first, although I'm not sure that moisture is much of an issue during the scenicking part unless one is trying to build a water feature.

JOe 

cuyama wrote:

joe-daddy wrote: I'll offer a reason and rationale why San Fran may make foam hard to find, it comes from oil, not a renewable resource like plywood, homasote or soundboard. That's got nothing to do with it, Foamboard's just not used as much in construction in our warm climate.

Don't be so sure of  yourself, I doubt you have the same  polictical climate that exists in San Francisco.  I'm surprised they will allow an SUV to be registered there.   Regardless, foam is not earth friendly. . .

Joe 

BNSF4ever wrote:

Wow what a response! snip and limited carpentry skills.  snip my carpentry skills or lack thereof  snip

Therein lies the beauty of model railroading, it gives us good reasons to learn new skills and to buy new tools, yes, new tools, more tools. . .

I do hear you loud and clear.

Best and no offense intened!

Joe