joe-daddy wrote:Don't be so sure of yourself, I doubt you have the same polictical climate that exists in San Francisco. I'm surprised they will allow an SUV to be registered there. Regardless, foam is not earth friendly. . . Joe
Joe
Quite the opposite actually. Think about the amount of oil you SAVE when using less electricity for either heating or air conditioning. If anything one of the best things you can do for the environment is to insulate your house MORE and get the long time consumption of non renewable resources down. Ofcourse, my own house use sawdust for this being situated in northern Sweden, I somehow doubt that that would be as practical in Arizona or California and indeed we are moving away from it since it's an old method.
Magnus
No offense taken--the folks on here are mostly good people! It's just that when it comes to this hobby, I do not enjoy the carpentry part. I much more enjoy the operations.
I did see a post on a model airplane forum that listed a site called The Composites Store (www.cstsales.com). They are selling 2 in foam called "Hot Wire Foam High Strength" at reasonable costs and they do ship. Does anyone know if this foam is simular to Foamular?
I took a LOOK-SEE at this website www.cstsales.com
Yes they have the various kinds of foam, but QUITE PRICEY!!! The high strength foam is for like competition sailplane wings that you use electric winches that almost literally have the potential to rip the wings off a sailplane because of the speeds the winches reach as the winch pulls the sailplane into the sky like a jet plane!!!!NOT really what you want for a model train setup.HOWEVER, if you really want to use just foam and no plywood underneath, and make it SUPER-STRONG, lay a layer of fiberglass on one side of the foam, but that's expensive, but you won't be able to break it easily. Positive side of this is it will be lighter than plywood if you ever want to move it, and stronger than plywood.I sometimes used to get scrap foam from construction sites. I always asked first, and one contractor was also a model builder with both airplanes and trains, and we became friends, and still do train stuff together.Our first deal was a bunch of FREE pink foam in exchange that I cut a foam model airplane wing for him. Basically a NO-BRAINER deal!
TheK4Kid
Lillen wrote: joe-daddy wrote:Don't be so sure of yourself, I doubt you have the same polictical climate that exists in San Francisco. I'm surprised they will allow an SUV to be registered there. Regardless, foam is not earth friendly. . . Joe Quite the opposite actually. Think about the amount of oil you SAVE when using less electricity for either heating or air conditioning. If anything one of the best things you can do for the environment is to insulate your house MORE and get the long time consumption of non renewable resources down. Ofcourse, my own house use sawdust for this being situated in northern Sweden, I somehow doubt that that would be as practical in Arizona or California and indeed we are moving away from it since it's an old method.Magnus
Actually, I'm right on, were not talking about insulation, we are talking about using an excellent insulation product for supporting a trainset, something that other, environmentally friendly and renewable resources will do equally, if not better. That makes modeler use of foam a liability to the environment, but then who cares, right? Sawdust as an insulation? Very interesting.
Peace and good will to all!
joe-daddy wrote: Actually, I'm right on, were not talking about insulation, we are talking about using an excellent insulation product for supporting a trainset, something that other, environmentally friendly and renewable resources will do equally, if not better. That makes modeler use of foam a liability to the environment, but then who cares, right? Sawdust as an insulation? Very interesting. Peace and good will to all!Joe
In this regard you are right, atleast partially, it would depend on how much energy that went into the production of the different materials. I will give you an example for myself. I use a lot of foam now. That is partially because I couldn't transport the plywood without going round trips and get a wagon to pull them on due to their size, that would have made me use about 22 litres of fuel. Since I could buy the foam and just put in the back of my car I saved all those litres just picking it up, but that was of course only me and do not apply to most people. All though it is probably easier to store and transport for most. Also, wood do get transported and extracting plywood is a rather expensive and energy consuming process.
Wood gets logged, transported and uses up a LOT of petroleum to become what it becomes. Sure so does oil, but there is very little oil that goes into the production of a foam board and I'm not sure how this would compare to plywood. Where I live is an area based around sawmills and paper mills. They use tremendous amounts of energy, simply staggering amounts. But to think that all wood products are good for the environment and all petroleum products are worse is not true.
Just trying to make it a bit more complicated. It is not always as easy as the environmental lobby works hard to make it sound.
I could also ad that as I said my house is insulated of sawdust from local forests and is heated by the wood(from within a mile of my house) that don't get used by the sawmills. I use 0% of oil or electricity to heat my house. It is all natural and renewable so I can't say that I don't like to use wood myself.
Lillen wrote: Just trying to make it a bit more complicated. It is not always as easy as the environmental lobby works hard to make it sound.
You said a mouthful there! Without trying to turn this political, it is certainly true that in many, many instances appearances can be deceiving. A hybrid car sounds good, but what about the manufacture and disposal of the batteries? Hydrogen, nice, but where did the energy come to extract it? The easy cases, and the ones that are often the easiest, are when we don't do something, or do it less, rather than substitute something else.
Anyway, back to the railroad discussion. In the amounts that we use them in our railroads, I'd say that the impact of whether we use foam or wood probably makes very little difference. On the other hand, saving that 40 mile round trip I make into town when I don't have something I need by planning ahead a bit does make a difference! Now I just need to plan ahead!
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
BNSF4ever wrote:I'm building a new shelf layout and almost certainly need foam board or something to lay on top of the plywood because of the various heights of the tables and shelves that line my apartment so everything can be relatively level.The only problem is that in the San Francisco Bay Area, finding extruded insulation foam board is next to impossible and if you do find it in a craft shop, you only find one or two pieces.So if that is out, what else can I use as a material?I hear you loud and clear! I have tried amost everywhere in The Bay Area trying to get this product. I had to settle for the old standby - homasote. If anyone has any info on where to get the foam, please let me know.
I'm building a new shelf layout and almost certainly need foam board or something to lay on top of the plywood because of the various heights of the tables and shelves that line my apartment so everything can be relatively level.
The only problem is that in the San Francisco Bay Area, finding extruded insulation foam board is next to impossible and if you do find it in a craft shop, you only find one or two pieces.
So if that is out, what else can I use as a material?
I hear you loud and clear! I have tried amost everywhere in The Bay Area trying to get this product. I had to settle for the old standby - homasote. If anyone has any info on where to get the foam, please let me know.
on30francisco wrote: I hear you loud and clear! I have tried amost everywhere in The Bay Area trying to get this product. I had to settle for the old standby - homasote. If anyone has any info on where to get the foam, please let me know.
You mean besides the reources that have already been mentioned in this thread: Pacific Supply in the east bay and So SF and using the dealer finders I mentioned above?
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
joe-daddy wrote: Don't be so sure of yourself, I doubt you have the same polictical climate that exists in San Francisco.
Don't be so sure of yourself, I doubt you have the same polictical climate that exists in San Francisco.
Oh yes, of course ... living in Colorado, you doubtless know so much more about the political climate of the bay area than does someone like me who merely _lives_ in the bay area.
Good grief.
cuyama wrote: joe-daddy wrote: Don't be so sure of yourself, I doubt you have the same polictical climate that exists in San Francisco. Oh yes, of course ... living in Colorado, you doubtless know so much more about the political climate of the bay area than does someone like me who merely _lives_ in the bay area.Good grief.
Thanks for the personal attack! I can see how proud you are to be from San Francisco, the way you keep your location anonymous here on trains.com, I thought you were from Arizona or some other dry and hot locale.
joe-daddy wrote: I can see how proud you are to be from San Francisco, the way you keep your location anonymous here on trains.com,
Since I posted earlier in this very thread ...
cuyama wrote: A number of layouts I've been involved with here in the bay area are built with foam,
A number of layouts I've been involved with here in the bay area are built with foam,
... I would seem to be doing a very poor job of keeping my location anonymous.
cuyama wrote: joe-daddy wrote: I can see how proud you are to be from San Francisco, the way you keep your location anonymous here on trains.com,Since I posted earlier in this very thread ... cuyama wrote: A number of layouts I've been involved with here in the bay area are built with foam,... I would seem to be doing a very poor job of keeping my location anonymous.
I added your blog to myblog roll. You be an interesting fellow!
Peace and good will,
joe-daddy wrote: I added your blog to myblog roll. You be an interesting fellow!
aww, shucks ...
joe-daddy wrote: Peace and good will,
Likewise.