Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Sometimes you can be around Modelers and feel alone. It happens with any group of people doing whatever.
Most clubs say hello! Make you welcome and steer you to the trains and show you the good stuff and help introduce you to others. The two in my area that I know of (Arkansas Valley and the Crooked Rails) do this really well.
Now if that person has a throttle in thier hand and are "Locked" on to a train getting converstation out of that person will be the same as trying to elict a response from a boulder. Sometimes the quiet ones who dont want too much human contact hide behind the operating area where the public cannot get to them. These Gophers are generally very effective at keeping the railroad functional. They are just too "Busy" being happy doing what they are doing and not have to deal with you and me.
If you do happen to find yourself in a club that gives you the cold sholder or otherwise reacts to you as one would react to a spider in the kitchen then maybe you want to find another one that will be better for you socially or more open to communciation.
Not everyone will have the ability to walk up to you and say "HELLO!" some folks are shy and others too grumpy and occupied with thier own issues to deal with you.
What I think is worse is showing up at a high-brow club full of expensive technology trying to run that new Tyco. You will either be coldly showed the door or be center of attention.
One clue to me is the noise level. If everyone is being loud and talking to each other alot and things are going on such as a short somewhere or a train is being made up or perhaps a new member is being shown DCC for the first time... it is a great place to be.
Others with silence and bulletproof glass 3 feet from the edge of the railroad are not so good.
I deal with many people at work. And my favorites are those who ask a question that is safety related and recieve a negative response and return a few moments later trying the same problem from another angle. Those are the ones I remember. No is no and yes is yes. LOL.
Fifty years ago our local club just didn't like kids, period. They were the only club, and they were associated with the biggest local hobby shop (LHS). Needless to say, we kids did business with the other LHS, a garage operation where the man and wife owner were friendly and helpful. But they had no room for a layout in the garage, unfortunately.
People are funny (odd), and sometimes you just can't figure them out.
bb4884 wrote:I'm 17 and I feel cast-out wherever I go.
I'm seventeen and the club I go to really likes us youngins. We are handy for stuff like getting under the benchwork, stuff like that.
Add in the vacuum and your in business.
-Smoke
I feel your pain. I'm 17 and I feel like I don't get taken seriously enough. For instance, my friend and I (he also happens to be 17, at least for another month...) have been out railfanning on many occasions when the local police shows up and asks us what we're doing. Being on public property, we would honestly say "We're trainwatching!" Usually, the officer looks at us with disbelief and then tells us to "mind ourselves". With that, he usually takes his leave.
I know he's just doing his job, though. I mean, what would you think if you saw a couple of teenagers hanging around the tracks?
-Brandon
To be blunt, I have noticed more socially inept people in this hobby than in others. Let's face it, a lot of "weird" people like trains. Considering this demographic, your treatment isn't too surprising. That doesn't excuse the behavior, it is just par for the course I guess.
-Mike
PBoilermaker wrote:To be blunt, I have noticed more socially inept people in this hobby than in others. Let's face it, a lot of "weird" people like trains. Considering this demographic, your treatment isn't too surprising. That doesn't excuse the behavior, it is just par for the course I guess.-Mike
I agree. We're like the computer geeks - we relate more to the technology.
Enjoy
Paul
zxb1 wrote:At least you were'nt insulted on what scale you were running, The last train show I attended they the club I was observing asked what scale am I running. I told them Ho, then one of the club members laughed and said yeah hughley oversized. I guesse that what you expect from n-scalers at a train show.
The correct response is "But I can't see the Nothing scale". If they laugh the ice is broken, if they don't it's time to walk away.
PBoilermaker wrote: To be blunt, I have noticed more socially inept people in this hobby than in others. Let's face it, a lot of "weird" people like trains. Considering this demographic, your treatment isn't too surprising. That doesn't excuse the behavior, it is just par for the course I guess.-Mike
Midnight Railroader wrote: PBoilermaker wrote: To be blunt, I have noticed more socially inept people in this hobby than in others. Let's face it, a lot of "weird" people like trains. Considering this demographic, your treatment isn't too surprising. That doesn't excuse the behavior, it is just par for the course I guess.-MikeMaybe they/we are attracted to this hobby precisely because--unlike, say, bowling--it does not require interaction with others.
Any hobby that revolves around technology and allows one to be reclusive is going to be a nerdy one. That's why I try not to take it or myself too seriously, and because the goal is to relax and reduce stress, not pile it on. Becoming disabled brought the effects of excessive stress on our bodies home to me in a big way, which is why I try not to sweat the small stuff anymore. I do what I like, and have little time for people who are obsessed with pointing out what you ought to care about. Yes, I've been known to use the "lighten up " mantra, because some people need to. You'll find a significant number of people in any activity who are enjoying their ego trip more than the activity itself.
Any group of people that responds to a newcomer with indifference or a "circle the wagons" mentality is a sure sign of their insecurity, and that it's time to move on.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
myred02 wrote: bb4884 wrote:I'm 17 and I feel cast-out wherever I go.I feel your pain. I'm 17 and I feel like I don't get taken seriously enough. For instance, my friend and I (he also happens to be 17, at least for another month...) have been out railfanning on many occasions when the local police shows up and asks us what we're doing. Being on public property, we would honestly say "We're trainwatching!" Usually, the officer looks at us with disbelief and then tells us to "mind ourselves". With that, he usually takes his leave.I know he's just doing his job, though. I mean, what would you think if you saw a couple of teenagers hanging around the tracks? -Brandon
Actually, that happens to people of all ages. I am 70, a church pastor, and have been an active modeler since my teen years. But I have been approached by police at various times and various places and asked "what I am doing". The funniest time was a couple of years ago when I was parked at a crossing on the ATSF Transcon mainline, 1/2 mile from my church watching trains, and the sheriff patrol stopped to check on me. One came over and started giving me a bad time, suddenly the second officer came running over and told the first to leave me alone, I was his pastor. We had a good laugh, I told the story the next Sunday and all was well.
Just remember, they are doing their job and if so, they will question anyone of any age. Enjoy the hobby, I have.
Bob
I agree with this too, although I don't think that this hobby is dominated by ‘socially inept' participants - we just a higher proportion than a typical group.
In my experiences, I think our hobby tends to attract introverts. Introverts generally don't prefer to socialize and would much rather be doing something on their own. In fact, I would not be at all surprised if ‘lone wolf' modelers out number those who belong to clubs.
As far as clubs go, it's always tough to break into an established club. There always seems be a core group who been there forever and tend warm up very slowly to new people. Perhaps because they are waiting to see if a newbie will hang around long enough to learn the ropes and contribute. Maybe they have seen too many new people come in, look around, play a little, and then disappear. I'm not saying that this justifies their cold behavior, but it might explain it.
Big Beast,A question or two for you: How many other types of hobbies have club buildings, and what kind of non-RR clubs have you been to? Most other clubs are 1st and foremorst a social club that does other things (organizations like the Jay-Cees, KofC, Lions, Elks, etc.). Model RR clubs are 1st and foremost building and operating a model railroad, and the social part comes from that. For example, my club's By-Laws states that the purpose of the club is to: 1). Build, operate and maintain a model railroad, 2). Promote fellowship amongst the members, etc. Note the order of those.
My point is that in most other non-RR clubs, the reason people join is to be sociable. For RR clubs, the reason people join is to build or operate a model railroad and increase their hobby skills or to share them. Being sociable is a derivitive of that, and as long as you are just a tiny bit sociable to your own fellow members, you can last a long, long time in a RR club. Meanwhile, if you aren't socially outgoing in a more typical non-RR club, I don't think you'd last too long.
My second question is: is it the club, or is it you? No offense, but as 14 year member of my club, I have often been ignored by visitors, too. For example, when I see a stranger in the club as I'm walking by, I'll say "Hi.", but if the guy blows me off with a mumbled greeting...what am I supposed to do? Stop and ask him about his family? Quiz him on his modeling techniques? Ask him what his favorite RR is? It's a two way street, this communication thing.
As far as not being taken seriously, I still get that too, IMHO. And I'm 32. But since I'm in a club that has far, far more gray hairs in it than dark ones (if you know what I mean), and since I've been in the club since I was 15 (before I was a paying member), I think that there's a lot of carry over from those days. That folks still see me as "the kid", and heck, except for one other guy, I've been the youngest guy in the club since I joined it in 1993.
For example, if I say that a certain siding should or shouldn't be on the plan, I get a lot of resistance. Meanwhile, if someone who is a retiree (or close to it) says the same thing I do, suddenly it's given real consideration. The funny thing is that I've been a member and a model railroader longer than several of these members even if they are decades older than I. Sigh.
Sometimes I feel like Rodney Dangerfield.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Paul3 wrote: For example, if I say that a certain siding should or shouldn't be on the plan, I get a lot of resistance. Meanwhile, if someone who is a retiree (or close to it) says the same thing I do, suddenly it's given real consideration.Sometimes I feel like Rodney Dangerfield. Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
For example, if I say that a certain siding should or shouldn't be on the plan, I get a lot of resistance. Meanwhile, if someone who is a retiree (or close to it) says the same thing I do, suddenly it's given real consideration.
I know what you mean on that one. I guess it's that old saying "With age comes wisdom." (Not always)
pastorbob wrote: myred02 wrote: bb4884 wrote:I'm 17 and I feel cast-out wherever I go.I feel your pain. I'm 17 and I feel like I don't get taken seriously enough. For instance, my friend and I (he also happens to be 17, at least for another month...) have been out railfanning on many occasions when the local police shows up and asks us what we're doing. Being on public property, we would honestly say "We're trainwatching!" Usually, the officer looks at us with disbelief and then tells us to "mind ourselves". With that, he usually takes his leave.I know he's just doing his job, though. I mean, what would you think if you saw a couple of teenagers hanging around the tracks? -Brandon Actually, that happens to people of all ages. I am 70, a church pastor, and have been an active modeler since my teen years. But I have been approached by police at various times and various places and asked "what I am doing". The funniest time was a couple of years ago when I was parked at a crossing on the ATSF Transcon mainline, 1/2 mile from my church watching trains, and the sheriff patrol stopped to check on me. One came over and started giving me a bad time, suddenly the second officer came running over and told the first to leave me alone, I was his pastor. We had a good laugh, I told the story the next Sunday and all was well. Just remember, they are doing their job and if so, they will question anyone of any age. Enjoy the hobby, I have.Bob
Back in the fall of last year I was parked at the T&OC station and was reading the latest issue of Railfan between train while sipping on a Diet Pepsi when a Police Officer drove by..I heard him tell his dispatcher on my scanner that "The car in question is just that train guy that comes here a lot." He wave as he drove by.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
on30francisco wrote:I've had many experiences of being ignored or given the attitude by other modelers in clubs, NMRA meetings (during my days of membership), LHSs, or train shows. I have found many of these places very cliquish and unfriendly toward newcomers and others whose modeling interests are different than the majority. This is a shame because it discourages potential modelers and showcases our hobby in a very negative light to the general public. Despite my negative experiences, I have found the Large Scale community to be much more laid back, less cliquish, open-minded, and diverse when it comes to modelers and modeling. Although I love this hobby, I try to avoid going to most hobby shops or modeling events. I get most of my supplies either online or at arts and crafts stores. I must say that the online hobby shops and suppliers, in contrast to the many LHSs I've been to, treat me as if I'm their only customer.
No offense meant here but,maybe its your attitude? The way you breeze into a hobby shop,club or NMRA can turn friendly folks off..Maybe you show a unfriendly attitude by being stand offish by not speaking to anybody..I have seen guys I would not give the time of day to because of their haughty looking attitude because of the smirk on their face.Its really a 2 way street.On the other hand I have visited clubs where some of the members was rather stand offish while others was friendly.Another thing..Local NMRA meets usually means there are guys there that has known each other for years..So,what might seem like a "cliquish atitude" is no more then long standing friendships.
Now I buy 99% of my stuff on line and I feel I am no more then a cold computer page to the dealers I been dealing with for the last 6 years unlike some of the friendly hobby shops I been in.
BRAKIE wrote: No offense meant here but,maybe its your attitude? The way you breeze into a hobby shop,club or NMRA can turn friendly folks off..Maybe you show a unfriendly attitude by being stand offish by not speaking to anybody..I have seen guys I would not give the time of day to because of their haughty looking attitude because of the smirk on their face.Its really a 2 way street.On the other hand I have visited clubs where some of the members was rather stand offish while others was friendly.Another thing..Local NMRA meets usually means there are guys there that has known each other for years..So,what might seem like a "cliquish atitude" is no more then long standing friendships.
I think in the case of new club members (or prospects), the burden of initiating a friendly attitude should fall squarely on the existing club members. After a time, I think the new guys will have to make up their minds if they intend to stay and what sort of attitude they will have going forward. Hopefully it will be positive and an asset to the club.
In a case of a LHS (or any retail environment), it's a whole different story. All customers HAVE to be treated well regardless of whatever vibe they put off - unless they intend to rob the store or something...
Bruce,I think that its a 2 way street.The new members (or prospects) should start by introducing their selves to other club members and vice versa.In times past I am sure there are those that thought I was stand offish at first when I join a club.However,in MY case I was observing the other members for their reactions to me as a new member...Many broke the ice by speaking first.Once I broke my ice I found the group was open and friendly to all.
I will speak to visitors at the club and wait and see their response will be.Some mumble a reply while others start asking questions..Then there are the very few that doesn't acknowledge my "Hello" or "Hello and Welcome!".
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
BRAKIE wrote: Bruce,I think that its a 2 way street.The new members (or prospects) should start by introducing their selves to other club members and vice versa.In times past I am sure there are those that thought I was stand offish at first when I join a club.However,in MY case I was observing the other members for their reactions to me as a new member...Many broke the ice by speaking first.Once I broke my ice I found the group was open and friendly to all.I will speak to visitors at the club and wait and see their response will be.Some mumble a reply while others start asking questions..Then there are the very few that doesn't acknowledge my "Hello" or "Hello and Welcome!".
Larry,
I agree that it's a two way street - but the ice needs to be first broken. I think it's got to be up the club members to make the first move to break the ice, and then it's up to the new person to reciprocate or do whatever he/she is going to do. Hopefully it will be reciprocated and the new person will feel welcome.
Now there will be new people who will take it upon themselves to make that first move, and that's great. But I think clubs really shouldn't depend on that.
When I first moved into my neighborhood, I was surrounded by well established owners who have lived there for many years. Not one ever welcomed us. After a time we found most of them not to be bad neighbors, but as we bought the first house to be sold there in a number of years, they were not used to dealing with new people. One of my sourest early encounters occurred when I was (unknowingly) dumping leaves just across a property line and was confronted by a cantankerous old neighbor I had yet to ever meet. After his rant, I apologized and then openly wondered why he would greet a new neighbor in that fashion. He complained that since I never bothered to introduce myself that I was the one being unfriendly.
Sometimes I see this same sort of attitude played out in clubs, schools, and churches.
I was in 3 Rocket clubs in my youth with lots of people with various ages. Rarely did I run into a *** as I like to call them. One did have it's own building they leased for projects and such. However to bring first question to a fine point. should it matter if a club has it's own building?
Look at people who love fishing. Could that be considerd a hobby? I would think so Although some consider it a sport.. I have been doing that for yrs and very very rarely do I run into any pricks. 90% of the time if you ask are they biting you will get a prompt answer. Most times they will even tell you what bait is working and what is not.
I certainly hope it is not me. I have walked into many clubs will say Hi only maybe 70% of the time I will get a hello. The reason I bring this up is with rising gas prices. Some people who wish to join a club have extremely limited choices on a club to join. People in this hobby really need to lighten up. With prices for this hobby going through the roof. they are only rushing along a dying breed.
Big Beast,The difference in having a building or not is that there are many informal social clubs or groups that meet in people's houses, at restaurants, etc. that are tailored to be a truly social organization. These sorts attract the more sociable amongst us, as who would want to invite unsociable people into your own living room for coffee, tea, or beer?
If a club has a building, they have to be at least a little more formal because they have to pay the rent (or whatever). A more formal club can have those that are not as sociable as members, as the other folks will put up with them so as to pay the rent (sad, but true). That's what I meant about there being a difference.
As for fishing, you also have fisherman who would tell you that the fishing's terrible just to make sure you didn't "take" one of their potential fish.
When I asked if it was you, it was to point out that there's often more than one side to these things. It's like the ballplayer that signs 100 autographs until his hand is numb, but when he leaves, the 101st fan will be ticked, and call a sports talk station and lambaste the player for ruining his kid's life because he didn't sign his ball.
My point is that there are many "disappointed with Club X's behavior" threads and posts on the internet, but it's not always the club that displayed bad behavior.
Big Beast wrote: I was in 3 Rocket clubs in my youth with lots of people with various ages. Rarely did I run into a *** as I like to call them. One did have it's own building they leased for projects and such. However to bring first question to a fine point. should it matter if a club has it's own building? Look at people who love fishing. Could that be considerd a hobby? I would think so Although some consider it a sport.. I have been doing that for yrs and very very rarely do I run into any pricks. 90% of the time if you ask are they biting you will get a prompt answer. Most times they will even tell you what bait is working and what is not. I certainly hope it is not me. I have walked into many clubs will say Hi only maybe 70% of the time I will get a hello. The reason I bring this up is with rising gas prices. Some people who wish to join a club have extremely limited choices on a club to join. People in this hobby really need to lighten up. With prices for this hobby going through the roof. they are only rushing along a dying breed.
The last trains show I went to in Pine Bluff was packed wall to wall with people. Hardly a dying breed. Once in a while a customer will be asking questions like is this Atlas track any good while trying to get into the hobby. I usually keep my opinonated big mouth shut and let the store keep deal with the customer. Both stores I go to understand the customer's needs and they do a good job taking care of that new customer.
But the experience of a customer getting into model railroading as a new hobby with all the possibilities is a very wonderful day in any hobby shop.
Will that person be in the hobby a year from now? Depends on their ability to learn and work with good quality products while avoiding the junk. There are alot of other things they can do like buy an expensive boat and fishing gear and go to the lake.
Know what? I have to agree with Da Beast here. Heaven knows that most model railroaders I know are perfectly sociable, pleasant folks, but I must say that I run into far more... let's say surly... people in this hobby than in any other I engage in (and among these I include competitive sports such as soccer and running)).
A few years ago, I might have said that stamp collecting (another of my pastimes) was populated with just as many grouches as our hobby, but I have seen a remarkable change over the last ten years or so in the way philatelists of all ages deal with one another and, most importantly, with newbies and young people. My kids have come to enjoy stamp collecting, a hobby that is even harder for teens to relate to than model railroading, largely because of the help and encouragement they've received from experienced collectors at stamp shows.
Juan
Big Beast wrote:I do not know if it is the area I live in or just common in this type of hobby. I have noticed sometimes when walking into clubs you get this sense of being ignored. Me and a few freinds have noticed this more often in this hobby then any other. Why?
Don't feel rained on... I got into Cowboy Action Shooting about three years ago, and at first it was a lot of fun. Then one day I noticed that everyone had all of a sudden turned real cold toward me. At first I didn't let on or say anything, then one day I wasn't in the best of moods and came out and asked one of the other members what was going on. He said that from what he could gather everyone felt that I considered myself to be a "pretty boy", and that the word was that I was more into looking good in my seemingly unlimited wardrobe of cowboy clothes than I was shooting. That was the end of it for me, and I haven't been back since. I even sold all of my cowboy guns, and used the money to buy train items with - which is what I should have done in the first place...
Tracklayer
Tracklayer wrote: ...He said that from what he could gather everyone felt that I considered myself to be a "pretty boy", and that the word was that I was more into looking good in my seemingly unlimited wardrobe of cowboy clothes than I was shooting...Tracklayer
...He said that from what he could gather everyone felt that I considered myself to be a "pretty boy", and that the word was that I was more into looking good in my seemingly unlimited wardrobe of cowboy clothes than I was shooting...
Aaah, the politics of envy. Still, you have to give the guy credit for spilling the beans honestly...ya gotta give him that much.
I'll try a mini-dissertation here. Over time, any organization adopts a flavour, for want of a better word, and that flavour is a confluence of attitudes, charisma in one or two people (often unofficial elders or leaders, infleuntial people, in the group), limitations caused by necessity, and so on. Over time, the group that remains, that can stick it out and adapt, will have a mini-culture that they come to view as theirs to protect. They are gate keepers.
When a new person enters the setting, and unknown if you will, that person can be a real threat to a group that has nutured and sustained a protectionist form, or a proprietary form, of modeling and operations. If that group, severally, comprises weak characters or personalities, those whose indentity (ego) is largely tied to what they have come to accept and view as "successful and masterful accomplishment" in their hobby, they will feel threatened by an interloper. They will actively resist when someone new begins to impose, or to suggest, a change in "ways of doing what they do the way they do it, and why they do it."
Simply, the atmosphere or culture of the organization is the result of hundreds of accepted changes by those who are actually present the first time you meet them...with the odd variation, of course. You may simply not be very welcome if the group has a practise of being rigid and have learned, collectively, to keep a straight arm between themselves and would-be newbies to the group. So, if you want into such a group, then you must begin a lengthy negotiation with them, a dance of sorts, and get them to accept you. Then, if you still feel a distinctive need to change the group when you have their acceptance, you can begin to get their support as a leader and get them working with/for you.
It won't happen in the first year.
I dont know anything about the pretty boy stuff. But I have seen cases where truckers have paid 4000 dollars for Chrome and later discovered over the phone long distance because thier kid is sick and need medicine for 300 dollars. I dont know.
I have seen one or two people in Living History (Civil war) where alot of money is spent on the uniform and equiptment. To the public that Rifleman wearing a expensive outfit looks just like another one who may be wearing home spun at 100 yards during a battle demonstration. But to the others inside the Infantry company who are in close proximity to the one who is spending alot of money.. well.. there probably is some tension.
I have stood in line of battle wearing second hand materials and holding a borrowed rifle. I did not look any different than the one next to me who has a weapon that is orginal and is maintained very well and wearing hundreds of dollars in costume for a specific Officer or soldier that actually existed in history.
Trains is expensive too. But it is a activity where you can do it by yourself or you can share a little bit with others who are of the same feather as they say. All are welcome, regardless if they make minimum wage part time or enjoy a multi million income from bank interest. Let's just focus on running trains and teach each other things that are useful.
Hmm. I'll toss another one in. I also do a bit of electronics and radio hobbying. The people in the main short-wave radio store here are about as much help as gravestones at a wedding. I have to ask for service; and never mind advice - they point to a book on the wall. Even after I bought a $600 short-wave receiver and a few magazines from them.
Funny thing, they are all in my age group. So it can't be that.
PBoiler, thanks for saying that! When ever or where ever I go railfanning, NO ONE talks! Its pretty sad, I usually see atleast 2 or 3 railfans a day, and rarely do they even say hi. And yes, a lot of "wierd" people like trains, seems like a lot of people who have some disability love them. It kind of bothers me how our hobby attracts introverts more than anything. I have a few good friends (all older, and most work on the railroad) that I go to slide shows with, and they seem like the only people who talk. Anyone Ive met when railfanning, ive came up to them, not once has someone introduced themselves to me. Im 15 by the way, so I can feel these 17 year olds pain also. Oh well I guess, right?
Alec
I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING THERE...
tracklayer said,"He said that from what he could gather everyone felt that I considered myself to be a "pretty boy", and that the word was that I was more into looking good in my seemingly unlimited wardrobe of cowboy clothes than I was shooting. That was the end of it for me, and I haven't been back since. I even sold"
Uhhhh, tracklayer, Uhhh I been meanin to talk to you about that new conductor outfit you been wearin lately ,Uhhh
Well,I also race 1/24th and 1/32nd slot cars..I will tell you very little about making your car go faster..I love to fish..Think I will tell you exactly where my "honey hole" is? Guess again.I might send you to one of my old fishin' hole but,not where I am currently catching fish.
Think charter boat captains will tell you where the fish are baiting? Same for bass and walleye fishermen.No way.
engineerjoey wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: PBoilermaker wrote: To be blunt, I have noticed more socially inept people in this hobby than in others. Let's face it, a lot of "weird" people like trains. Considering this demographic, your treatment isn't too surprising. That doesn't excuse the behavior, it is just par for the course I guess.-MikeMaybe they/we are attracted to this hobby precisely because--unlike, say, bowling--it does not require interaction with others. I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING THERE...
Unfortunately, I've noticed that too. Many, but not all people at LHSs, train meets or other modeling venues seem to be either grouchy men adorned with zillions of articles of railroadania or socially inept introverts. When you try to either introduce yourself or ask questions pertaining to trains (heaven forbid you try to talk about any other subject), you either get a rude brush-off or a look like you just came from Alpha Centauri. Although I'm somewhat of a loner, I DO have many other interests and engage in other activities with others besides model railroading. I realize not everyone fits this stereotype but I believe this kind of behavior, besides being inexcusable, fosters the negative reputation others have about our hobby and the people who enjoy it. I believe there are many closeted model railroaders who truly love and are open about the hobby but are turned off by these negative stereotypes. Because of this they avoid the so-called model railroading "social" scene, hence, they are not counted in polls pertaining to model railroaders (sort of like me).
myred02 wrote: I feel your pain. I'm 17 and I feel like I don't get taken seriously enough. For instance, my friend and I (he also happens to be 17, at least for another month...) have been out railfanning on many occasions when the local police shows up and asks us what we're doing. Being on public property, we would honestly say "We're trainwatching!" Usually, the officer looks at us with disbelief and then tells us to "mind ourselves". With that, he usually takes his leave.I know he's just doing his job, though. I mean, what would you think if you saw a couple of teenagers hanging around the tracks? -Brandon
I'm 14 and have been trainwatching a number of times when the cops go by. Up here they leave you alone just as long as you don't get too close to the tracks.
As for being leftout. It's like that day in and Day out at school, all because I like trains and want to become an engineer working for a railroad in Northern Maine.
on30francisco wrote: engineerjoey wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: PBoilermaker wrote: To be blunt, I have noticed more socially inept people in this hobby than in others. Let's face it, a lot of "weird" people like trains. Considering this demographic, your treatment isn't too surprising. That doesn't excuse the behavior, it is just par for the course I guess.-MikeMaybe they/we are attracted to this hobby precisely because--unlike, say, bowling--it does not require interaction with others. I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING THERE...Unfortunately, I've noticed that too. Many, but not all people at LHSs, train meets or other modeling venues seem to be either grouchy men adorned with zillions of articles of railroadania or socially inept introverts. When you try to either introduce yourself or ask questions pertaining to trains (heaven forbid you try to talk about any other subject), you either get a rude brush-off or a look like you just came from Alpha Centauri. Although I'm somewhat of a loner, I DO have many other interests and engage in other activities with others besides model railroading.I realize not everyone fits this stereotype.
Unfortunately, I've noticed that too. Many, but not all people at LHSs, train meets or other modeling venues seem to be either grouchy men adorned with zillions of articles of railroadania or socially inept introverts. When you try to either introduce yourself or ask questions pertaining to trains (heaven forbid you try to talk about any other subject), you either get a rude brush-off or a look like you just came from Alpha Centauri. Although I'm somewhat of a loner, I DO have many other interests and engage in other activities with others besides model railroading.I realize not everyone fits this stereotype.
I think you sum it up best when you said "Although I'm somewhat of a loner"..Sadly I find most loners stand offish and quite rude when spoken to.
As far as rude maybe your body language was not the best.Been there as well and had to learn what parts body language plays in meeting new people..I was told by my late wife she was drawn to me by my "lost look".She said I looked lost,timid and like a loner when I walked into the room.Of course my speech is slightly impaired and I sound like I am from Brooklyn with a Cajun drawl.I learn to over come that problem socially as well.
As a former loner I came to realize those sad but,true facts as well it wasn't them as much as it was me at times.
I have learned that it is best to take things into one's own hands when wanting something from others, even if it is acceptance into a circle or merely information. Eye contact is forthright and is moderately aggressive, but it engages the other person...and humanizes you. Avoiding eye contact because you are submissive, shy, insecure, whatever, will send messages that make others uncomfortable.
Secondly, make "the announcement." It goes like this, "Hi, my name is Crandell. I heard from Bob that you guys know a lot about model trains. I wonder if I would be welcome to join you for this evening." The ball lunges across the low net and is heading straight between their collective eyes. They flinch, duck, or they whack it back at you...it's up to them on their side of the net.
Nine times out of ten, they'll give you a reply like, "Sure, c'mon over." Or, it'll be, "Do you have any trains, a layout yourself?" They'll say something that will tell you they acknowledge your request to be included, and that you know it is their decision to make...not yours. They won't feel so threatened, and will probably warm up to you quickly. Don't come across as a smart a.s.s., don't monopolize the converstation, learn that one or two well chosen questions can get them eager to explain things to you. Few folks don't like talking about themselves or their hobbies.
Communications comes in many disguises, and it is only half as effective when it is one-sided. Politeness, inquisitiveness, a willingness to listen mostly and to talk only when necessary, active listening (nodding, giving the occasional "mhmm", eye contact, rephrasing or restating what you have heard in other words to convince them you really are trying to understand what they tell you, and so on), they will help the others to warm up to you.
You only get contact initiated solely by the other person in a restaurant or in a place of sales. Even then, you must present yourself first so that they can acknowledge you and begin to serve you.
selector wrote:Secondly, make "the announcement." It goes like this, "Hi, my name is Crandell. I heard from Bob that you guys know a lot about model trains. I wonder if I would be welcome to join you for this evening."
Secondly, make "the announcement." It goes like this, "Hi, my name is Crandell. I heard from Bob that you guys know a lot about model trains. I wonder if I would be welcome to join you for this evening."
Okay, I'll try it. But it will be kind of awkward being called Crandell.
SteamFreak wrote: selector wrote: Secondly, make "the announcement." It goes like this, "Hi, my name is Crandell. I heard from Bob that you guys know a lot about model trains. I wonder if I would be welcome to join you for this evening." Okay, I'll try it. But it will be kind of awkward being called Crandell.
selector wrote: Secondly, make "the announcement." It goes like this, "Hi, my name is Crandell. I heard from Bob that you guys know a lot about model trains. I wonder if I would be welcome to join you for this evening."
...or Bill, or Bob, anything but Sue! (with due regard to Johnny C.)
reklein wrote: tracklayer said,"He said that from what he could gather everyone felt that I considered myself to be a "pretty boy", and that the word was that I was more into looking good in my seemingly unlimited wardrobe of cowboy clothes than I was shooting. That was the end of it for me, and I haven't been back since. I even sold"Uhhhh, tracklayer, Uhhh I been meanin to talk to you about that new conductor outfit you been wearin lately ,Uhhh
Now, now reklein. Let's leave my conductor's outfit out of it!.
Actually, I think the real reason those guys acted the way they did toward me was because I'm single and was talking to some of their wives a little more than I should have been (?).
As several of you have said, and I paraphrase, this is the human condition. I have noticed when i have joined a new organization, the same thing has happened to me. I joined two different Boy Scout troops over the years with my sons and could see a "good old boys" club among the adults in the troops. However, as time when on, i was accepted. It took getting involved with the troops and contributing something.
The Boy Scout troop I am currently involved with recognizes this behavior. We have discussed at Troop Committee meetings this stuff and have vowed to warmly greet any visitors at our troop functions. This shows Scout Spirit and what we are suppose to be made of. But, because of this "human condition", we have to discuss the problem and make that effort to overcome ignoring any visitors.
As for train shows, the majority of everyone I talk to is friendly and has helpful advice to my questions.
Ever take a Meyers-Briggs personality test? It's fun. They define an introvert as someone who gets their energy by being alone and doing things alone, and an extrovert who is energized by being around people.
Yours In Model Railroading,
John
Littleton, CO
I have been presented with a battery of tests in the past for work related duties and I gotta tell you, that paper does NOT tell THEM anything. What it will tell is how you will function against thier rules, policies and situations in the work.
I applied to a computer store some years ago and took one of those "tests" and adopted a very heavy approach to thier questions like zero compliance etc... they never called me LOL. I guess they want people who are sunshine and smiles without regard for actual ability. =)
My way of testing people is a winter storm with a little bit of everything coming across Sandstone in West Virginia. How they hold up under the stress is all I need to know. Some handle it well, others cower in the sleeper sucking thier thumbs.
Safety Valve,
You are correct about those tests and how they are used. I just found it interesting on how that one test defined introverts and extroverts.
Clubs of any sort can be cliquish environments...
on30francisco wrote:a look like you just came from Alpha Centauri.
I could give you several examples of why I think Railroads are getting grumpy.
I set up to Shoot video of UP's Challanger. I was totally alone. About a half mile up from me was another guy shooting video. He turned on his camera and walked all the way down to me and wanted to talk over my video.
I was in Napperville with hundreds of people. As I was shooting video of the train leaving. A PUNK shooting stills walked down off the enbankment and seen me shooting. He stopped right in front of me. He knew what he was doing because he got the big smerk on his face.
I was attending a GR convention in Seattle Wa. I was in a person's big yard shooting video of action in the persons switching yard.
Nobody was around where I was. I checked several times to see if I wa blocking anyone. It was clean.
A man walked 1 foot in front of my lens and began shooting over my back. When I looked behind NObody was there. When I asked the guy why he got infront of me instead of behind me. He said I was in his place. I had no right to occupy one place for so long.
Last week end. I was standing on the platform shooting video during the RR days in Rochelle Il. A man and his two kids walked out to the end of the walk way. Then he walked exactly under my camera.
Great he was out of everyone way. Now he began telling his kids where to stand for his shots and all about the trains.
I attempt to give everyone there due. I attempt to respect everyone right to return with outstanding photos.
Now I flatly tell someone to shutup or get out of my way.
Having read through this thread, let me offer my take.
My first point is the occasional "cliquishness" or coldness of some model railroaders as absolutely not exclusive to our hobby. I'm also into Civil War reenacting, golf, and general aviation, and all of these hobbies have various "cliquey" elements. There are also plenty of really good people in all of these hobbies.
My other point:
I've shown my layout at a number of shows. Now, I'm as friendly as I can be because I really do enjoy talking to people and inspiring them to join our hobby. But, especially during those 2-day shows, some things start to break me down. They are:
1. Really, really, really stupid questions from adults who ought to know better.
2. Kids (most of whom are old enough to know better) who touch everything, in spite of signage to the contrary.
3. Parents who don't control said kids. Before you say it, I'll answer: I have a 4 and a 2 year-old, and I do control them at shows. They have a healthy respect for my home layout as well.
4. Getting asked the same mundane questions by everyone (i.e., "How fast can those trains go?" or "Who built this for you?" as if I couldn't possibly have done it myself).
5. Standing for 8+ hours straight. Unlike some exhibitors, I refuse to address a standing visitor from the seated position. It would be rude of me. So I stand.
6. The super nit-picker (who will invariably admit, when pressed, that he has no layout of his own).
Now, 95% of the time, my interactions with the public are very positive, and I really do enjoy the process, and look forward to it. But, my point is that some people don't handle the aforementioned stresses as well, and for all you know, you may have caught the club members after one of the above issues.
That does not ever excuse rudeness, but it might explain why some club members might be acting in what is otherwise an unusual way for them.
Here's me enjoying some time with a visitor, who is being a very good spectator in that she is preventing her young one from dismantling my layout. As I said, the vast majority of my interactions are very positive, and I enjoy shows very much. Some people may not enjoy it as much, or are more apt to cave to the stresses of a public show.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Dave,I can FULLY UNDERSTAND what you are saying..After several (hundreds?) of open houses at the various clubs I been a member of I think I seen it all or very near of seeing it all to include adults with touchy feely fingers.
Why is it adults can ask hairball questions like
"Did you guys build all of this?"
From a old lady "Do you put this train set away every night?"
Do you guys ever wreck your trains for fun?
Do you ever race your trains?
Who has the fastest train set here?
No kidding..I have been ask those questions by ADULTS!
I have found most teenagers and young adults will ask intelligent questions and have some very nice comments.
Of course there is always the young lady with a kid or two in tow that will say"See that locomotive? Thats the type your Grandfather drove.
BRAKIE wrote:Why is it adults can ask hairball questions like"Did you guys build all of this?" From a old lady "Do you put this train set away every night?"Do you guys ever wreck your trains for fun?Do you ever race your trains?Who has the fastest train set here?No kidding..I have been ask those questions by ADULTS!
My favorite is "Do they run on batteries?" I've been asked that several times about HO scale.
Dave Vollmer wrote:Here's me enjoying some time with a visitor, who is being a very good spectator in that she is preventing her young one from dismantling my layout.
Here's me enjoying some time with a visitor, who is being a very good spectator in that she is preventing her young one from dismantling my layout.
Yeah, but that kid behind the mountain is up to no good.
Spikejones52002, you certainly have had some bad luck with your camera locations. I hope that was unusual, and not the rule.
Good hunting.
Too funny and apparently true.
secondhandmodeler,Is that supposed to be humorous? If so, here's my take on it (as a veteran club member):
Welcome to the train show folks. Come on down to see the worlds greatest hobby! Please interrupt any club member you see running a train. Heck, they don't need to pay attention to their train, and if they wreck? Well, that's part of the fun! They are only cheap toys, so it's not like it's a big deal or anything. If you are not an experienced modeler, try to ask these engineers the most complicated questions possible while also sprinkling in the story of your life while you're at it. That your mom threw away your trains, that your great-great grandfather used to work for the Central Pacific, that you always like the blue engines over the yellow ones, and so on. Also, please rest your elbow on the track, after all, that's why we built that benchwork so high. And kids? Oh, encourage them to run around all day, zooming under the layout and yanking wires like it's taffy. If they break anything, just say you'll sue for making little Johnny curious about electricity. Please help yourself to play with any model autos on the layout, too. It's no different from Matchbox cars when you were a kid, so just fling them about without a care. Remember, we build model railroads to entertain you! If you want to treat our layout like a toddler in a sand box, why just go ahead. It's all just toys. It's not like they're important or anything.
Well. I had to walk away from that post and decide if I was offended or not. However be that all chips fall where they will, I think that the topic of train-show behavior and personality traits should go onto it's own thread. I dont want to elaborate with my take on the trainshow stuff without totally wrecking this thread.
At the recent show in Pine Bluff I over heard one of the operators admonish another "Slow down." That operator had his head deep into the DT400 he was holding with total concentration. That would not be a good time to say "HI! My name is SV! Whatcha doing?" If he loses the train mentally and gets distracted bad things happen.
Also it can be difficult for someone to pull out a crown jewel worth a kings ransom for a few laps at the show. A few oohs and aahs later it goes back into the box. I feel that if you bring something to show, run it for all to see. If it gets broke.. well... you dont have a heart issue do ya?
Now the people that comes to the show cannot get off scot free either. Some folks dont understand the true cost of some of the higher dollar equiptment and just how much money is literally rolling down the track. Let's say a 400 dollar engine or engines towing 20 cars at up to 40 dollars apeice retail. **taps calculator... that is 1200 dollars rolling on that track driven by another few hundreds or thousand more dollars in associated control system. the list goes on but you get my idea. The structures can be expensive and the scenery is 5 dollars a shake bottle out of what you get sometimes.
I think that if there is adequate insurance for shows, there should be no problem.. except that these products are one off- limited run- OOP never will be made again and in some cases like Life Like, bought out and no longer in existance except with a totally different support system.
No wonder the show people are nervous like a teaser at a foaling barn.
The public might go to walmart and buy a trainset and run it for an afternoon, decide that nothing works and pick up something else to do.
Tell me again about what people think and do at shows one more time please.
Well, I wasn't so much offended as I was trying to point out the other side of the coin. It's easy to knock a club for not being "friendly" as it's totally subjective. Sometimes I get to the point where I think that if I wish someone at a train show "Good day!", I get the "What do you mean by that?" kind of look.
See, here's the other thing, too. I have worked in retail since I was 14 (and I'm 32 now), and I've seen some crazy customers come in the door. But you can bet your bottom dollar that these folks don't go home and tell their friends and family that they were complete loons. "Yeah, you should have seen him, Ethel! I had that guy twisting in the wind so bad he should have changed his name to Dorothy. It got to the point where he just let me keep the product, gave me my money back, and gave me a coupon rather than listen to me wail and drop f-bombs on him. Woo hoo!"
Nope, it's more like, "That guy at the store was so mean to me, I had to beg and plead for mercy. Boo hoo! I got barely a crust of bread from that meany. I will never shop there again, and you shouldn't either." You just know that they paint themselves as the hero, with the retailer cast in the role of the bad guy. BTW, we call these people, "Customers of the Week"...or, even worse, "Customers of the Month". And, rarely, those that are "Customers of the Year" are the one's where I have one hand on the phone to call the cops (like the one ranting, loudly, about some quasi-religious/gov't conspiracy). My fav of all time, however, is the one that tried to return merchandise without a reciept to my store for a full cash refund. No big deal, you say? Well, the capper is that she had bought the item at a completely different store! She couldn't understand why I wouldn't give her $15, because after all, I could then turn around and sell it for $15 and I wouldn't lose any money, right? Heh. You have got to have some brass ones (and I don't mean trains) to try to pull that one off.
Sorry, but I digress...
As for why we have the show, there are several reasons (in no particular order):1). We like to show off. We're proud of our accomplishments, and want see it enjoyed by others.2). We need the money. It's not much of a secret that the train shows for our club brings in the most money. More than dues, more than club car sales, more than anything else. No show = no club layout.3). To recruit new members. The best way to get new members is to show off what we can do and stir up their interest in us.4). To create goodwill in the town we're in (we're in a town park).5). As a 501(c)3 Non-Profit, we are educational. You can't educate anyone if they don't come and see you.
As for stupid questions, no question is truly "stupid". However, there's just so much free information available on the web these days (and most any public library will give you internet access), it does make one wonder why people don't use it for basic (and I mean basic) knowledge of model railroading. Like, how do trains change tracks? Or, what's a scale? That kind of basic question. It's totally different if someone wants a judgement call (as in, what's the best flex track to use), but when folks don't know what flex track is... Sigh.
secondhandmodeler,I will echo want Paul said..There are times when questions should not be ask especially the stupid ones and yes there are stupid questions..I expect intelligent questions but,my golly keep those "how fast do they go,do you wreck your trains for fun to yourself so you won't show your ignorance after all I EXPECT KIDS to ask such questions but,not mature adults.Besides what does those questions have to do with any hobby or help questions? None that I can see..
Try answering ANY question while dispatching and there is 8 trains on the layout and yardmasters are requesting permission to foul the inbound and outbound leads plus you have engineers calling out signals! Did I mention the local wants track time so he can do his work?.Think you have time? Yes we "WOW!" them with our operations.You will be surprise how many ask how we keep so many trains moving without wrecking?
So,our club uses 3 greeters/security that wonder around and welcome our guest and will answer any questions they may ask.
* Security is needed to keep folks from wondering into the wrong areas such as the club room,tool storage closet(its a walk in) and the locker room.
I can appreciate your frustration with the " do you wreck them for fun" questions. I just thought that this might have been some peoples first exposure to model trains. Knowing that you have greeters to interact with the visitors changes my thinking. Sorry again for offending anyone. I have never been on your side of the benchwork.
secondhandmodeler wrote: I can appreciate your frustration with the " do you wreck them for fun" questions. I just thought that this might have been some peoples first exposure to model trains. Knowing that you have greeters to interact with the visitors changes my thinking. Sorry again for offending anyone. I have never been on your side of the benchwork.
No offense, just having a healthy discussing are we?
Once in a while it's good to talk about something that no one wants to deal with as a subject from time to time.
secondhandmodeler wrote:I can appreciate your frustration with the " do you wreck them for fun" questions. I just thought that this might have been some peoples first exposure to model trains. Knowing that you have greeters to interact with the visitors changes my thinking. Sorry again for offending anyone. I have never been on your side of the benchwork.
I remember reading years ago about a club that "lost their lease". As their final operating session they ran trains made up with the cheap cars and locos and shot at them with BB guns as they went around the layout.
One thing I remember about Gomez was how much fun he had with his trains.
So while these are not things I would do, I'm not so sure they are stupid questions. After all, to much of the public we're a little odd to begin with, they're just trying to find out much.
Shot up by BB cannons!!!?, that is no way for engine and cars to die.
The proper way is have to truss Span Bridge failure right over your 100 gal Aquarium.
Pretty dramatic for the fish, and instant dramatic scenery on your seafloor.
secondhandmodeler wrote:Sorry, I guess I can see where you are coming from. One question, why go to a show if you can't be bothered? I just thought that the comments about stupid questions were rather.....stupid. I realize that some questions probably get asked over and over. What I don't understand is, how are these people suppose to realize that their questions are somehow invalid? Yes my post was a wise guy attempt at humor. I am sorry if I offended you.
Secondhand,
Stop apologizing, you hit the nail on the head.
Being the hosts, there is no excuse for being anti-social and rude, period.
IRONROOSTER wrote:One thing I remember about Gomez was how much fun he had with his trains.
I can understand frustration with destructive behavior, like touching or derailing equipment, damaging scenery, or pulling wires; these should not be tolerated. Short of those things anything goes. The average person who has no contact with model trains is going to ask questions that might make most of us want to roll our eyes, but ignorance isn't necessarily stupidity. I always liked the Gomez Addams questions; if someone asked if I ever blew them up, I usually told them there are days when I'd like to.
Don't try to convince me that even the most sober modeler doesn't have an inner Beavis and Butthead that thinks "Uh-huh-huh-huh - that was cool!" when a harmless derailment occurs on their pike.
At any kind of show the majority of people are just passing through, so we have to accept the fact that they're not going to take it as seriously as we do.
Brakie questions like How fast or do you wreck on purpose are legit questions. Seriously think about it. Most people like speed. We see high speed trains in movies all the time. So why wouldnt they askhow fast does it go?
How many times have you watched Nascar on TV hoping to see a killer wreck? "Ofc we want everyone to walk away from it" I do if I do not see a wreck inside of 5 minutes I change the channel. Remember how cool the train wreck was on the Fugitive? I have yet to see a train wreck in a movie or show look as realistic as that to me or others. Some people do not know the difference between a Bachman and a Walthers or Athearn. I know when ever I get into a rampage mood I grab my cheap Bachman f7 put the cheap boxcar in the way and see how far I can send that box car creaming into a set of life like cars I set in my yard.
Big Beast wrote: How many times have you watched Nascar on TV hoping to see a killer wreck? "Ofc we want everyone to walk away from it" I do if I do not see a wreck inside of 5 minutes I change the channel.
Big Beast wrote: I know when ever I get into a rampage mood I grab my cheap Bachman f7 put the cheap boxcar in the way and see how far I can send that box car creaming into a set of life like cars I set in my yard.
I don't.
Big Beast wrote: Brakie questions like How fast or do you wreck on purpose are legit questions. Seriously think about it. Most people like speed. We see high speed trains in movies all the time. So why wouldnt they askhow fast does it go?How many times have you watched Nascar on TV hoping to see a killer wreck? "Ofc we want everyone to walk away from it" I do if I do not see a wreck inside of 5 minutes I change the channel. Remember how cool the train wreck was on the Fugitive? I have yet to see a train wreck in a movie or show look as realistic as that to me or others. Some people do not know the difference between a Bachman and a Walthers or Athearn. I know when ever I get into a rampage mood I grab my cheap Bachman f7 put the cheap boxcar in the way and see how far I can send that box car creaming into a set of life like cars I set in my yard.
You go and wreck if you want to.
I spent 8 of my 9 lives fighting to keep my 40 ton 18 wheel ramming sled out of other people's vehicles and can attest to several lives directly saved by my or other's actions via radio etc.
I am angry with your casual attitude to wrecks.
Edited, story too disturbing to some.
Big Beast wrote:Brakie questions like How fast or do you wreck on purpose are legit questions. Seriously think about it. Most people like speed. We see high speed trains in movies all the time. So why wouldnt they askhow fast does it go?How many times have you watched Nascar on TV hoping to see a killer wreck? "Ofc we want everyone to walk away from it" I do if I do not see a wreck inside of 5 minutes I change the channel. Remember how cool the train wreck was on the Fugitive? I have yet to see a train wreck in a movie or show look as realistic as that to me or others. Some people do not know the difference between a Bachman and a Walthers or Athearn. I know when ever I get into a rampage mood I grab my cheap Bachman f7 put the cheap boxcar in the way and see how far I can send that box car creaming into a set of life like cars I set in my yard.
You must just live for You Tube then. Sad...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Maybe you use train set cars I use cars that cost $10.00-22.00..Think I want to wreck those high dollar cars to impress the crowds? If you do there is a bridge I would like to sell you.
I must protest your lack of better judgement..During a open house should we not put our best foot forward as ambassadors for the hobby? After all don't you think for one minute the public doesn't judge us AND THE HOBBY by our actions? We are trying to show the public that model railroading is a ADULT hobby and we should act like mature adults and not like Gomez Adams.
You would be very surprised at the insanely stupid questions adults sometimes ask. I go to shows for the 95% of questions that are insightful, or at least not obvious. I enjoy shows very much.
It's the 5% of questions from adults (not children... their questions/statements are nearly always forgivable) that makes your jaw drop.
Unfortunately there is such thing as a stupid question.
Such as (from an adult): "Who bought this for you?" Um, me , I guess! Although, technically I was just the middle man. The money flowed from the Air Force to the hobby shop through me. So, your tax dollars bought it for me, right?
Also from an adult: "Do you ever run them head-on into each other on purpose?" Yeah, that's what I do.
Here are the real questions I expect and enjoy answering:
"How long did it take to build?" "How much did it all cost?" "How did you build the table?" Etc.
Big Beast wrote: How many times have you watched Nascar on TV hoping to see a killer wreck? "Ofc we want everyone to walk away from it" I do if I do not see a wreck inside of 5 minutes I change the channel. Remember how cool the train wreck was on the Fugitive? I have yet to see a train wreck in a movie or show look as realistic as that to me or others. Some people do not know the difference between a Bachman and a Walthers or Athearn. I know when ever I get into a rampage mood I grab my cheap Bachman f7 put the cheap boxcar in the way and see how far I can send that box car creaming into a set of life like cars I set in my yard.
I don't watch Nascar. And as a combat veteran who has seen the impact when people's lives are ended violently, I don't much care for death or crashes.
Also, I find operating my railroad the way it was intended to operate is a far more relaxing experience when I'm stressed than it would be to smash engines and cars together. But then, I've custom detailed and weathered every locomotive and car I have, so I don't have any "throw-aways" to crash if I wanted to. But my point is I don't want to.
I would also up the ante by suggesting that perhaps ramming F7s into parked freight cars falls outside of the consensus of what is defined by model railroading.
SteamFreak wrote: I can understand frustration with destructive behavior, like touching or derailing equipment, damaging scenery, or pulling wires; these should not be tolerated. Short of those things anything goes. The average person who has no contact with model trains is going to ask questions that might make most of us want to roll our eyes, but ignorance isn't necessarily stupidity. I always liked the Gomez Addams questions; if someone asked if I ever blew them up, I usually told them there are days when I'd like to.Don't try to convince me that even the most sober modeler doesn't have an inner Beavis and Butthead that thinks "Uh-huh-huh-huh - that was cool!" when a harmless derailment occurs on their pike. At any kind of show the majority of people are just passing through, so we have to accept the fact that they're not going to take it as seriously as we do.
Nelson,There is a time for a chuckle over a derailment..However,its not during a open house where the viewing public as a whole come to see trains run and not derail.
During our 3 day open house this past weekend I had a gentleman tell me he never saw model trains run so nicely(or words to that effect)..He then ask how we keep them on the track..I then explain how its done and showed him a NMRA gauge and KD coupler height gauge.I then took one of my cars and demonstrated the technique we use.I also told him good smooth track work is a must as well for derailment free operation.The gentleman was impress and thank me for showing him.
Questions and demonstrations can be done during a open house especially on a modular layout when trains are running smooth and free of derailments..
Now had I been at the other club DS'ing or working one of the yards there is NO time for such pleasantries.
See the difference?
BRAKIE wrote: We are trying to show the public that model railroading is a ADULT hobby and we should act like mature adults and not like Gomez Adams.
We are trying to show the public that model railroading is a ADULT hobby and we should act like mature adults and not like Gomez Adams.
Hear THAT kids! It's an ADULT hobby. NO FUN ALLOWED!!!
Maybe that's the attitude the OP ran into that started this thread in the first place.
loathar wrote: BRAKIE wrote: We are trying to show the public that model railroading is a ADULT hobby and we should act like mature adults and not like Gomez Adams.Hear THAT kids! It's an ADULT hobby. NO FUN ALLOWED!!!Maybe that's the attitude the OP ran into that started this thread in the first place.
Good grief man lighten up and understand the majority of the public sees our models as kids toys and sees us as adult playing with toy trains or reliving our childhood..
Dave Vollmer wrote: secondhandmodeler wrote:Sorry, I guess I can see where you are coming from. One question, why go to a show if you can't be bothered? I just thought that the comments about stupid questions were rather.....stupid. I realize that some questions probably get asked over and over. What I don't understand is, how are these people suppose to realize that their questions are somehow invalid? Yes my post was a wise guy attempt at humor. I am sorry if I offended you.You would be very surprised at the insanely stupid questions adults sometimes ask. I go to shows for the 95% of questions that are insightful, or at least not obvious. I enjoy shows very much.It's the 5% of questions from adults (not children... their questions/statements are nearly always forgivable) that makes your jaw drop.Unfortunately there is such thing as a stupid question.Such as (from an adult): "Who bought this for you?" Um, me , I guess! Although, technically I was just the middle man. The money flowed from the Air Force to the hobby shop through me. So, your tax dollars bought it for me, right?Also from an adult: "Do you ever run them head-on into each other on purpose?" Yeah, that's what I do.Here are the real questions I expect and enjoy answering:"How long did it take to build?" "How much did it all cost?" "How did you build the table?" Etc.
To the majority of casual observers, model railroading is not a serious subject. I would bet that a lot of people view it as playing with trains. I would also imagine that a fair amount of people come to shows to entertain their children. Some of these adults only exposure to model trains is from tv. What do you see people doing with trains on tv, crashing them. If you can get past their "stupid" question, their next questions may be more intelligent. Can you imagine if somebodies only exposure to golf was Happy Gilmore? There would be a fair amount of correction needed when that person arrived at the golf course!
Then I guess I pre-suppose too much intellgence in some people.
Nevertheless, having done half a dozen shows, most folks ask good questions, but some people (who otherwise look and sound as if they should know better) ask some really stupid questions.
People sometimes forget themselves. They'll sometimes talk about you and your layout as if you're not really there (that's the TV effect) or will sometimes say completely rude and insensitive things.
I had one guy stand at my layout for several minutes pontificating about how "N scale is too small, you can't se the trains, they don't run well, and you can't even get them on the tracks, etc." to the other folks at my layout. I politely reminded him that, in fact, my trains were doing a fine job running and staying on the tracks, and even though I wear glasses, I have no trouble doing work on them without the aid of an optivisor. He eventually agreed that N scale "might be for some people." Hopefully my layout spoke louder than his words to the other people at my layout.
TA462 wrote:Sometimes when I'm in a Golf tournament at work I'll put a hockey stick in my Golf bag. I get more then a few comments, lol.
Suffice it to say I have a Athearn 50' double door boxcar that weighs over a pound..The wheels are glued..Many a new member has had his pride and joy sit and spin its wheels as the new guy gets bombarded with cat calls like "Sheesh,get that junk off the layout since it can't pull! I would be ashame if my locomotive couldn't pull 15 cars! Etc,etc.
We then shout "Welcome to the club!"
I was cuss out once by a sourpuss.He later apologized for his out burst over a harmless joke..
BRAKIE wrote:Suffice it to say I have a Athearn 50' double door boxcar that weighs over a pound..The wheels are glued..Many a new member has had his pride and joy sit and spin its wheels as the new guy gets bombarded with cat calls like "Sheesh,get that junk off the layout since it can't pull! I would be ashame if my locomotive couldn't pull 15 cars! Etc,etc.We then shout "Welcome to the club!" I was cuss out once by a sourpuss.He later apologized for his out burst over a harmless joke.
I was cuss out once by a sourpuss.He later apologized for his out burst over a harmless joke.
Brakie, I'm surprised at you. I thought this was a mature adult hobby, not an opportunity for immature frat pranks. Tsk, tsk.
loathar wrote:I am "lightened up". I didn't make the MATURE ADULT HOBBY post.
Well take a CLOSER look at the next open house or train show..What do you see kids? Sadly no..You see adults running trauins..This is what the none modeling public sees as well so,as adults we must show the public that we are not reliving our childhood or adults playing with toy trains..We are in fact mature adults enjoying what can be a adult hobby.
Understand now?
Now, Pranks I can do.
I was taught to drop a box of parts behind a operator intense on concentration at a coupling.
See the man jump 5 feet.
SteamFreak wrote: BRAKIE wrote: Suffice it to say I have a Athearn 50' double door boxcar that weighs over a pound..The wheels are glued..Many a new member has had his pride and joy sit and spin its wheels as the new guy gets bombarded with cat calls like "Sheesh,get that junk off the layout since it can't pull! I would be ashame if my locomotive couldn't pull 15 cars! Etc,etc.We then shout "Welcome to the club!" I was cuss out once by a sourpuss.He later apologized for his out burst over a harmless joke.Brakie, I'm surprised at you. I thought this was a mature adult hobby, not an opportunity for for immature frat pranks. Tsk, tsk.
BRAKIE wrote: Suffice it to say I have a Athearn 50' double door boxcar that weighs over a pound..The wheels are glued..Many a new member has had his pride and joy sit and spin its wheels as the new guy gets bombarded with cat calls like "Sheesh,get that junk off the layout since it can't pull! I would be ashame if my locomotive couldn't pull 15 cars! Etc,etc.We then shout "Welcome to the club!" I was cuss out once by a sourpuss.He later apologized for his out burst over a harmless joke.
Brakie, I'm surprised at you. I thought this was a mature adult hobby, not an opportunity for for immature frat pranks. Tsk, tsk.
Well there is a time to act crazy..We all do that but,not when the non modeling public is watching us.Well maybe a little laughter or prank is harmless but,not train wrecks,trains at running at hyper speed etc.Thats what I am talking about
Even Thomas is ok for the kids.
Safety Valve wrote: Now, Pranks I can do.I was taught to drop a box of parts behind a operator intense on concentration at a coupling.See the man jump 5 feet.
LOL! LOLROF! Gotta try that one!
Can't we all just get along??,,,, or can we agree to disagree??
Adios Wyatt
We can all agree to disagree about the disagreement we're agreeing upon.
Not too long ago I went to an promenent local HOn3 club's open house and was completely ignored even when I asked questions. I'm in my 40's, so its not just youngsters getting the brush off at these open houses, needless to say I left unimpressed by their attitude. This is not the first time I have encountered the brush off attitude at an open houses or at a train show, in fact, over the years its been one of the most consistent things I've come to expect in the smaller scales.
One of the main benifits of switching to large scale is that everyones a whole lot more friendly in LS than the ever were in HO or N, must be all that sunshine and fresh air from working in the garden
Have fun with your trains
BRAKIE wrote: loathar wrote:I am "lightened up". I didn't make the MATURE ADULT HOBBY post.Well take a CLOSER look at the next open house or train show..What do you see kids? Sadly no..You see adults running trauins..This is what the none modeling public sees as well so,as adults we must show the public that we are not reliving our childhood or adults playing with toy trains..We are in fact mature adults enjoying what can be a adult hobby.Understand now?
The last show I went to was about 50/50 (adults/kids) I was surprised to see quite a few kids in the clubs too.(under 16 I'd say) THEY were the ones that seemed happy to be there and explained things to people. (really good young modeling talent too) It was the older club guys that acted like they had been sucking lemons all day. This is what turned me off on the club thing when they tried to recruit me. They were bad mouthing each other to me and the rest of the audience.(NOT cool!)
I wish we could get junior members..One club has 3 the other has 1 only because Grandpa goes there.We need young blood because none of the members is getting any younger.At one club we have a wide age group from 16 to 75.
Both HO clubs I am a member we believe in behave in front of our guest.The N Scale club is still untried as far as open houses.It is my belief we will do well.
That's like standing behind a printing press operator and crumbling up a hand full of paper real loud. They make a mad dash to shut the press off.
Although I run the trains at the appropiate speed and an serious, I sometimes get in the mood and put a cheap highly-geared engine hooked to a few cheap, toy-like boxcars on the track and turn the throttle up full to see it zip down the track and wipe out on the curve. I've done the same by putting a hopeless boxcar at the intersection and ram it with a cheap loco that I could care less about. Although I'm serious about my modeling, I like to mess around occasionally - as long as take precautions that these incidents don't wreck anything important. I would never do or advocate this at a public show or train meet.
vsmith wrote:We can all agree to disagree about the disagreement we're agreeing upon.Not too long ago I went to an promenent local HOn3 club's open house and was completely ignored even when I asked questions. I'm in my 40's, so its not just youngsters getting the brush off at these open houses, needless to say I left unimpressed by their attitude. This is not the first time I have encountered the brush off attitude at an open houses or at a train show, in fact, over the years its been one of the most consistent things I've come to expect in the smaller scales. One of the main benifits of switching to large scale is that everyones a whole lot more friendly in LS than the ever were in HO or N, must be all that sunshine and fresh air from working in the garden
on30francisco wrote: vsmith wrote: We can all agree to disagree about the disagreement we're agreeing upon.Not too long ago I went to an promenent local HOn3 club's open house and was completely ignored even when I asked questions. I'm in my 40's, so its not just youngsters getting the brush off at these open houses, needless to say I left unimpressed by their attitude. This is not the first time I have encountered the brush off attitude at an open houses or at a train show, in fact, over the years its been one of the most consistent things I've come to expect in the smaller scales. One of the main benifits of switching to large scale is that everyones a whole lot more friendly in LS than the ever were in HO or N, must be all that sunshine and fresh air from working in the garden I have noticed that also - that the Large Scale community is a whole lot more friendly, tolerant, and laid back than the small scalers. NOTE: Besides modeling indoor LS from a model railroader's point of view (super detailed and as close to fidelity as practical - good running takes priority over detail) I still dabble in On30 and HO.
vsmith wrote: We can all agree to disagree about the disagreement we're agreeing upon.Not too long ago I went to an promenent local HOn3 club's open house and was completely ignored even when I asked questions. I'm in my 40's, so its not just youngsters getting the brush off at these open houses, needless to say I left unimpressed by their attitude. This is not the first time I have encountered the brush off attitude at an open houses or at a train show, in fact, over the years its been one of the most consistent things I've come to expect in the smaller scales. One of the main benifits of switching to large scale is that everyones a whole lot more friendly in LS than the ever were in HO or N, must be all that sunshine and fresh air from working in the garden
Holy broad, sweeping generalizations, Batman!!!
Dave Vollmer wrote: on30francisco wrote: vsmith wrote: We can all agree to disagree about the disagreement we're agreeing upon.Not too long ago I went to an promenent local HOn3 club's open house and was completely ignored even when I asked questions. I'm in my 40's, so its not just youngsters getting the brush off at these open houses, needless to say I left unimpressed by their attitude. This is not the first time I have encountered the brush off attitude at an open houses or at a train show, in fact, over the years its been one of the most consistent things I've come to expect in the smaller scales. One of the main benifits of switching to large scale is that everyones a whole lot more friendly in LS than the ever were in HO or N, must be all that sunshine and fresh air from working in the garden I have noticed that also - that the Large Scale community is a whole lot more friendly, tolerant, and laid back than the small scalers. NOTE: Besides modeling indoor LS from a model railroader's point of view (super detailed and as close to fidelity as practical - good running takes priority over detail) I still dabble in On30 and HO.Holy broad, sweeping generalizations, Batman!!!
I guess that would make Z-scalers REALLY vicious. If cornered, throw down some red meat and RUN!
Dave Vollmer wrote: You would be very surprised at the insanely stupid questions adults sometimes ask. I go to shows for the 95% of questions that are insightful, or at least not obvious. I enjoy shows very much.It's the 5% of questions from adults (not children... their questions/statements are nearly always forgivable) that makes your jaw drop.Unfortunately there is such thing as a stupid question.Such as (from an adult): "Who bought this for you?" Um, me , I guess! Although, technically I was just the middle man. The money flowed from the Air Force to the hobby shop through me. So, your tax dollars bought it for me, right?Also from an adult: "Do you ever run them head-on into each other on purpose?" Yeah, that's what I do.Here are the real questions I expect and enjoy answering:"How long did it take to build?" "How much did it all cost?" "How did you build the table?" Etc.
When you're asked these stupid questions do you answer them to their face the way you are answering them here? How do you deal with the situation?
Reading some of the posts here about how train guys are at shows makes me glad I didn't get exposure to this hobby by visiting one of these open houses/shows. As rude and stuck-up that some of the behavior seems, I would have lost all initial interest in the hobby since I would have assumed that ALL train modelers are like that. I guess seeing a club layout or whatever is out the door since I don't want to deal with those types of people or attitudes. I've dealt with the faces and snooty attitude from the LHS when I first started to go there. After they see me spending loads of money do they change their attitude to their superficially polite and helpful ways. Thank goodness for online stores!!
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
jasperofzeal wrote:Reading some of the posts here about how train guys are at shows makes me glad I didn't get exposure to this hobby by visiting one of these open houses/shows. As rude and stuck-up that some of the behavior seems, I would have lost all initial interest in the hobby since I would have assumed that ALL train modelers are like that.
jasperofzeal wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: You would be very surprised at the insanely stupid questions adults sometimes ask. I go to shows for the 95% of questions that are insightful, or at least not obvious. I enjoy shows very much.It's the 5% of questions from adults (not children... their questions/statements are nearly always forgivable) that makes your jaw drop.Unfortunately there is such thing as a stupid question.Such as (from an adult): "Who bought this for you?" Um, me , I guess! Although, technically I was just the middle man. The money flowed from the Air Force to the hobby shop through me. So, your tax dollars bought it for me, right?Also from an adult: "Do you ever run them head-on into each other on purpose?" Yeah, that's what I do.Here are the real questions I expect and enjoy answering:"How long did it take to build?" "How much did it all cost?" "How did you build the table?" Etc.When you're asked these stupid questions do you answer them to their face the way you are answering them here? How do you deal with the situation?Reading some of the posts here about how train guys are at shows makes me glad I didn't get exposure to this hobby by visiting one of these open houses/shows. As rude and stuck-up that some of the behavior seems, I would have lost all initial interest in the hobby since I would have assumed that ALL train modelers are like that. I guess seeing a club layout or whatever is out the door since I don't want to deal with those types of people or attitudes. I've dealt with the faces and snooty attitude from the LHS when I first started to go there. After they see me spending loads of money do they change their attitude to their superficially polite and helpful ways. Thank goodness for online stores!!
Tony asks: When you're asked these stupid questions do you answer them to their face the way you are answering them here? How do you deal with the situation?
Seeing these folks are our guest during open house we treat them with respect and with courtesy.We will answer all questions regardless-even the one about crashing..
Now at one club we added a sign at the DS office doorway that reads in bold letters:
Please Do Not Disturb The Dispatcher..
IF you have questions about this operation
please feel free to ask any member.
Thank You for your cooperation.
jasperofzeal wrote:Reading some of the posts here about how train guys are at shows makes me glad I didn't get exposure to this hobby by visiting one of these open houses/shows. As rude and stuck-up that some of the behavior seems, I would have lost all initial interest in the hobby since I would have assumed that ALL train modelers are like that. I guess seeing a club layout or whatever is out the door since I don't want to deal with those types of people or attitudes. I've dealt with the faces and snooty attitude from the LHS when I first started to go there. After they see me spending loads of money do they change their attitude to their superficially polite and helpful ways. Thank goodness for online stores!!
Many years ago when I was about 17 and not into the hobby I was going by a model railroad store in Washington D.C. I was curious so I went in - the owner and the customer were so unfriendly I left and never went back. It wasn't until 8 years later I got into the hobby after finding a copy of Model Railroader in the PX newstand in Germany.
I realize that people don't become model railroaders in order to hone their people skills. Still if you're going to exhibit or sell to the public, you should be willing to exercise tolerance and show friendliness. Otherwise why bother. Also, remember that not everyone who comes by has great people skills either so they may not be intentionally insulting.
I freely admit I can be one of those people that dismisses other people, but only at shows, and only if I am running. Explination: Unlike most groups at shows ours is actually able to sit outside the layout and run, wireless throttles are great, but because of this ease members of our club like to see how many trains that they can cram onto the two mainlines. The club record is 14. Being distracted during these operations can be...intresting. I also freely admit that I have border line anxiety issues. This makes operations in large crowds very intresting. A mixture of not liking crowds, claustiphobia, near panic can make for a very irritated me. Since I am actually trying to over come these issues (it's tough being a caver when you have claustiphobia) without meds, I know I have snapped at people. I have tried to make it up to them, by appologizing and generally giving them a guided tour of the layout and trying to explain things.
On the other hand when it is just me and one other person on my main, I don't usually have a problem talking to people about the setup or the engines themselves. Though my wife generally gets different reactions when she is running. I gotta say that the "Girls don't run trains." bit is getting old; FAST.
Often times it not the questions that bother me it's the timing that bothers me. Spotting reefers to a siding, tapped on the back, "Watcha doing?" Um...you couldn't have waited 20 seconds for me to spot the cars, uncouple and get moving again? Ah well.
Strangely enough the dumb questions don't really bother me. Try teaching kids to down-hill ski for a coupla years and pretty soon the dumb questions become the fun ones to answer... and lets face it often times we can begin to tell when the person is being purposely dim or really doesn't know.
The things that bother me the most are the touching or disrespect shown towards things that aren't theres or couldn't fathom doing. I mentioned the "girls don't run trains" thing. Word to wise...DON'T say that. Whatever your beliefs about women in the work place or the things that are supposed to be "girlish" my wife, my niece, my mom and one of my aunts have all taken dispatches on either my layout or the club layout and aside from my mom's lead foot, have all done a very good job and had fun doing it. The other thing that REALLY burns me is the, "let's walk my fingers down the track right in front of an engine" I have had this happen to me, and other's on the club layout at shows. My initial reaction is a glare and if that doesn't work I explain to thier parents (because invariably it's kids) how much of thier kids lives I will own if any thing happens to the engine and train. Most parents are truely shocked at how much the engines and cars cost and have had no real idea how much a steamer and 40 cars is really worth.
Think of those few "mature" adults and that causes derailments by pushing on the side of a freight car.. Then how about the HO car or truck that shows up on a road crossing waiting for the next train? Think that was done by magic? The perpetrator knew exactly want they wanted to do and moves along to watch the show.
Still we grit our teeth and rerail the train or replace the car or truck in its rightful place.
Of course visitors can be rude as well in many ways..Not speaking when spoken to,snickering and making rude comments.
SteamFreak wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: on30francisco wrote: vsmith wrote: We can all agree to disagree about the disagreement we're agreeing upon.Not too long ago I went to an promenent local HOn3 club's open house and was completely ignored even when I asked questions. I'm in my 40's, so its not just youngsters getting the brush off at these open houses, needless to say I left unimpressed by their attitude. This is not the first time I have encountered the brush off attitude at an open houses or at a train show, in fact, over the years its been one of the most consistent things I've come to expect in the smaller scales. One of the main benifits of switching to large scale is that everyones a whole lot more friendly in LS than the ever were in HO or N, must be all that sunshine and fresh air from working in the garden I have noticed that also - that the Large Scale community is a whole lot more friendly, tolerant, and laid back than the small scalers. NOTE: Besides modeling indoor LS from a model railroader's point of view (super detailed and as close to fidelity as practical - good running takes priority over detail) I still dabble in On30 and HO.Holy broad, sweeping generalizations, Batman!!!I guess that would make Z-scalers REALLY vicious. If cornered, throw down some red meat and RUN!
Nah, just wave the red meat in front of them quickly then throw it into a corner, the Z gaugers will try chasing it, but becuase their trains are so small and they have to constantly squint to see them, they cant refocus their eyes when they chase after the meat and invariably run straight into the wall, just keep repeating this when they get back up again, its hours of fun!
Dave, I wish it was a generalization, but I've been in this hobby since a teen, and thats over 20 years now, and I was a lone wolf modeler almost all the time I was in HOn30 just because of all the sour people I encountered at shops and shows. I switched to large scale, and my oh my, it was like day to night! I have run into a few sourpuss's in LS also, but overall, it is a very much more freindly crowd.
No, clearly I don't. I answer as a gentleman would. I offer nicely that I paid for the materials and constructed it myself over the period of several years, and that this was a labor of love.
For the other question, I smile and say that "sometimes it's tempting," but that I try to follow real railroad practices when possible... and the real railroads typically tried to avoid head-ons.
I've been around as a military officer long enough to know how to be polite.
I've never lost patience with, nor dismissed, a spectator at my layout. At most I will politely suggest that there are other folks with questions and that I need to pay them attention as well, if someone is monopolizing me.
jasperofzeal wrote:When you're asked these stupid questions do you answer them to their face the way you are answering them here? How do you deal with the situation?Reading some of the posts here about how train guys are at shows makes me glad I didn't get exposure to this hobby by visiting one of these open houses/shows. As rude and stuck-up that some of the behavior seems, I would have lost all initial interest in the hobby since I would have assumed that ALL train modelers are like that. I guess seeing a club layout or whatever is out the door since I don't want to deal with those types of people or attitudes. I've dealt with the faces and snooty attitude from the LHS when I first started to go there. After they see me spending loads of money do they change their attitude to their superficially polite and helpful ways. Thank goodness for online stores!!
In fact, if you'd like to know exactly how I conduct myself at shows, please read this thread:
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1141249/ShowPost.aspx
What you're missing is that all I'm doing is griping to fellow modelers who have probably also experience the same thing. That's not the same thing as how I would act around spectators at a show.
We all have or pet peeves, and we should be able to share them with one another from time to time without it calling our characters into question.
I wouldn't do shows if I didn't enjoy interacting with the public.
Let's face it: dealing with the public can try anyone's patience. I worked enough retail years ago to speak from experience. Then again, I enjoyed talking to the majority of customers, as I seem to have a knack for schmoozing them, even the irate ones.
It all depends on the attitude you carry into it. If you walk in with a chip on your shoulder, determined to bristle at the first dumb question someone asks, you're probably going to be miserable. If you take a more positive approach, you can look at a dumb question as an opportunity to educate someone, and show how much you do know. The person who asked "Who bought this for you?" may have simply been amazed at the level of craftsmanship in your layout, and convinced that one guy couldn't have done it on his own. In that light, it's a compliment, albeit a clumsy one.
You're dealing with the uninitiated. EXPECT STUPID QUESTIONS. Your blood pressure will thank you.
As for the destructive ones, keep a wooden ruler at the ready at all times.
Edit: Didn't realize when I posted this that the thread had spilled onto its seventh page!
BRAKIE wrote: Think of those few "mature" adults and that causes derailments by pushing on the side of a freight car.. Then how about the HO car or truck that shows up on a road crossing waiting for the next train? Think that was done by magic? The perpetrator knew exactly want they wanted to do and moves along to watch the show.Still we grit our teeth and rerail the train or replace the car or truck in its rightful place. Of course visitors can be rude as well in many ways..Not speaking when spoken to,snickering and making rude comments.
Brakie, best way to discourage this sort of behavior is give them a result. For a bit on the club layout we had "issues" with a canal. Cars a people kept ending up in it. So finally we put a couple of junked cars in it and a junked car along a mainline, that looked like it got tagged. Now the only problem is keeping the junkers in the water. Parents keep pulling them out and placing them on the apron, because they think thier kids put the cars in the drink. Caught two or three parents scolding thier kids, and had to intervene.
vsmith wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: on30francisco wrote: vsmith wrote: We can all agree to disagree about the disagreement we're agreeing upon.Not too long ago I went to an promenent local HOn3 club's open house and was completely ignored even when I asked questions. I'm in my 40's, so its not just youngsters getting the brush off at these open houses, needless to say I left unimpressed by their attitude. This is not the first time I have encountered the brush off attitude at an open houses or at a train show, in fact, over the years its been one of the most consistent things I've come to expect in the smaller scales. One of the main benifits of switching to large scale is that everyones a whole lot more friendly in LS than the ever were in HO or N, must be all that sunshine and fresh air from working in the garden I have noticed that also - that the Large Scale community is a whole lot more friendly, tolerant, and laid back than the small scalers. NOTE: Besides modeling indoor LS from a model railroader's point of view (super detailed and as close to fidelity as practical - good running takes priority over detail) I still dabble in On30 and HO.Holy broad, sweeping generalizations, Batman!!!Dave, I wish it was a generalization, but I've been in this hobby since a teen, and thats over 20 years now, and I was a lone wolf modeler almost all the time I was in HOn30 just because of all the sour people I encountered at shops and shows. I switched to large scale, and my oh my, it was like day to night! I have run into a few sourpuss's in LS also, but overall, it is a very much more freindly crowd.
vsmith, I have had the same experiences you had in regards to hobby shops and shows. I've been in model railroading since I was a kid in the 60s. I have always inquired about help and other questions at public train shows and LHSs - politely and at the appropiate times - and have been given the attitude. I feel that at a public show, modelers should be much more congenial and show some positive spirit provided you ask your questions at the appropiate times. Those that don't want to meet the public should stay in the background or at home since the main idea of a public show is to present the positive aspects of modeling to the public. Grouches and sourpusses further alienate potential modelers from taking up the hobby.
I've had this experience at many LHSs also. Since LHSs are in business to make a profit, they should treat every paying or potential customer with respect regardless of their interests or the amount of time they wish to spend in the shop. I usually zip in, get what I need, and zip out but my money is just as green as those who wish to spend all afternoon there. My money is also just as good (and worth more) at online shops. True, there are some rude or pushy customers but the majority come there with the intent to purchase something - either now or in the future. I have noticed since I switched to Large Scale and even when I started in On30, that I have met many more positive and congenial people - both online and in the LS and On30 sections of the LHSs.
Dave Vollmer wrote: jasperofzeal wrote:When you're asked these stupid questions do you answer them to their face the way you are answering them here? How do you deal with the situation?Reading some of the posts here about how train guys are at shows makes me glad I didn't get exposure to this hobby by visiting one of these open houses/shows. As rude and stuck-up that some of the behavior seems, I would have lost all initial interest in the hobby since I would have assumed that ALL train modelers are like that. I guess seeing a club layout or whatever is out the door since I don't want to deal with those types of people or attitudes. I've dealt with the faces and snooty attitude from the LHS when I first started to go there. After they see me spending loads of money do they change their attitude to their superficially polite and helpful ways. Thank goodness for online stores!!In fact, if you'd like to know exactly how I conduct myself at shows, please read this thread:http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1141249/ShowPost.aspxWhat you're missing is that all I'm doing is griping to fellow modelers who have probably also experience the same thing. That's not the same thing as how I would act around spectators at a show.We all have or pet peeves, and we should be able to share them with one another from time to time without it calling our characters into question.I wouldn't do shows if I didn't enjoy interacting with the public.
I guess the way I phrased my question did give the impression that I was questioning your character. I hope you understand that was not my intent. I agree that we all have pet peeves about whatever and we should vent it out sometimes, but in doing so, a lot of people will always give their two cents and sometimes not help the situation. Again, I hope you understand that I wasn't trying to question your character, I guess I should have just asked the second part of my original question which read: "How do you deal with the situation?" Thanks for your response to that by the way.
Good thread about how to prepare for a show. What I wonder is, if these shows are meant to recruit potential members to a club or whatnot, why not just make it so the trains can run around with minimal supervision, that way a higher amount of attention can be devoted to the public? A "scheduled" op session can be planned for later in the show that way the public can see what a typical op session is about. Specifying that nobody operating a train at that time should be bothered with questions would possibly eliminate the appearance of arrogance or any other negative message that may be conveyed. Also, why not place the layout behind a protective shield (maybe plexiglass) so as to discourage the public from touching anything on the layout? I know it's probably not cheap to do this, and I realize that basic manners would avoid a stranger from touching anything that is now theirs, but we all know that is not always the case. I guess the plexiglass might also impede throwing switches or other needs from the operator, but it would probably prevent small nuances that you guys see.
I started My "G" collecting when I moved to N.W. Indiana.
There are several "HO" clubs around. One day I found out about a "G" gauge club, Illana RR In Valpo, In. I found out when they are meeting and was asked to attend.
It was a typical Winter Evening for N.W Indiana. I fought the Ice and snow to attend.
I got there just early enough. I found the meeting room and found a seat.
Just before the meeting started. I introduced myself.
Everone looked up at me and NO ONE responded with a greeting.
During an interesting meeting. I made several comments and asked several questions. The comments and questions were answered.
Besides that NOT ONE PERSON SAID A WORD TO ME.
After the meeting in the back of this persons factory was a large "G" floor layout and some riding RR rolling stock.
Refreshments was available and enjoyed. One person walked by me and said, " look at the names on the (riding) cars."
I told the Person (NEVER MET) (that E-mailed me the invite) to take me off his mailing list.
...you mean, uh...that we're not supposed to wreck the trains?!!! OMG, I've got to redo my track plan!
So this thread seems to have established:
1) many model railroaders are socially inept introverts.
Knock me over with a feather.
2) when going to hobby shops or shows one can sometimes encounter an attitude
See point 1.
3) a lot of the general public think model railroaders are adults playing with children's toys.
See point 2.
Somewhere in there its a bit of a vicious circle.
I hope you all have been following the cartoons at toy trunk http://www.toytrunkrailroad.com/
Does this one sum it up, too?
Yep.
Spikejones52002, that about takes the cake. Are you sure you were not in New Hampshire, Massachusetts, or Maine? Several groups of people are like that there.
cordon,I'd like to know what "groups" you're talking about. There aren't that many RR clubs in NH, MA or ME, and since I'm in one of them, I'd like to know what you have against us. Here's a guy (Spikejones52002) complaining about some G-scale club in Indiana, and here you are out of right field tossing darts at three states' worth of RR clubs not only 1000 miles from Indiana, but even further away than where you are (Texas). What did we ever do to you? BTW, please be specific. If you can't remember names of people, at least tell us which clubs gave you a hard time.
We don't know what Spikejones52002 was like to this club in IN. As far as we know, he could have come across as a jerk or a saint to these people. I know that if a new person came into my club and started questioning things we do, I don't think they'd get a very favorable response. That's basic human nature. If you go into a club, realize that it's you joining the club, not the club joining you.
Paul,I agree when it comes to clubs there are those that use a mighty wide paint brush to cover all clubs that they have never visited.I am in 3 wonderful clubs(2 HO 1 N Scale) and from your many "my club" replies in our pass discussions on clubs I read yours sounds as nice.
I do not know why many think clubs are full of terrible folk.Grant it I have met some sourpusses in clubs I have visited most members I spoke to was open and friendly.
Brakie,I think it's due to the fact that some people are just too sensitive. For example, say you are a visitor to a club, and a club member rushes past you without stopping, making eye contact or saying so much as "Hi!" Now, is it because the club member is A). An unfriendly jerk, or B). He has to go to the bathroom in a big, big hurry?
Or, say you are that visitor again, and you see another member standing near you working on the layout but doesn't say anything to you. Now is this member, 1). a rude, obnoxious person, 2). a little shy, or 3). busy working on the layout as he only can get to the club 4 times a month for his $28 monthly dues.
This is sort of like the glass being half full or half empty (but to engineers, the glass is too big ). Each person reacts to certain situations differently (optimist or pessimist or engineer). And what may be perfectly benign and drama-free may seem off the charts of bad behavior to someone else.
I've said it before...clubs are not for everyone. You have to have a thick skin, you have to be able to accept someone else's ideas over your own, you have to be able to think about what's good for the club over your own personal needs, and you have to sacrifice something of yourself (ego, money & time) for the greater good of the club. Not everyone is built that way, and that's okay (it would be boring if everyone was the same). But to join any club, you have to be the type of person that can check your ego at the door, or you (or the club) won't last long.
BRAKIE wrote:I wish we could get junior members..One club has 3 the other has 1 only because Grandpa goes there.We need young blood because none of the members is getting any younger.At one club we have a wide age group from 16 to 75.Both HO clubs I am a member we believe in behave in front of our guest.The N Scale club is still untried as far as open houses.It is my belief we will do well.
Where is your club? If it's in MA I'll join!
The link to my club is at the bottom of my posts as the one marked "www". Or, you can just click here: www.ssmrc.org I'm the one with the full beard and wearing a hat behind the sign.
The club is the South Shore Model Railway Club, Inc., est. 1938, in Hingham, MA. We have approx. 60 members, and are in the process of filling our 6300 sq ft. layout room in our 10,000 sq. ft. club building. Our HO layout is about 1/3rd built, with a long way to go.
We are located in an old (WWI-era) U.S. Navy ammunition depot, inside an above ground bunker used to store battleship rounds when ships would come to the Boston Navy Yard. As such, when we moved in, there was nothing but an empty shell with a 30' hole in the roof. Since then, we have added electricity, plumbing, telephone, heat & A/C (and fixed that hole). We patched the floor and sealed it, bricked over all the windows and painted the exterior (twice now), and have removed all the asbestos roof shingles and replaced them all with asphalt shingles.
Our club is very democratic, with a monthly member's Business Meeting that confirms or overturns all decisions. There is a 9-member Board of Directors (Pres.,V.P., Sec., Treas., Chief Engineer, and 4 Board Members) that takes care of the business of running club, but they, too, need their minutes confirmed at each monthly Business Meeting by the members. Each member gets one vote, and gets equal say about anything that comes before the body. We also have a lot of committees, ranging from the Audit Committee to the White Elephant Table Committee that are run by their Chairmans. These committee Chairmen are appointed by the Pres., approved by the BOD, then confirmed by the Members as they have a large effect on the club's layout, appearance, and future. The Chairman must read, then hand in a written report detailing all they've done in the past month, with all money's spent, etc. At this time, they can be questioned by the membership, and can make motions to get things done or confirmed.
Our club has a lot of rules. But these rules are written with 69 years of experience behind them in running an model railroad club. So far, they seem to work.
I can't deny there are "cliques" in our club. Folks with common interest are drawn together by their common experiences. It's human nature. But at least I feel, as a 14 year member, that I can talk to anyone in the club without being uncomfortable. Even those that I disagree & argue with the most are still those that I can sit back and have a drink with while discussing life, the universe and everything. Not all clubs are like that.
I like my club, I'm glad I joined, and I'm a much better model railroader because of it. I must admit, there are times when I want to rip my hair out and scream, but over all, the experience has been good for me and has provided a lot of good times (as well as some good friends).
Big Beast wrote:Well if some you cannot handle so called stupid questions maybe you should not attend shows. It is people like you that turn people away from the hobby. Like I have said most who do not get involved in the hobby have no idea how expensive some of what we have is. If you cannot look past that then join the nearest snoot club.
Ah, the anger...
I think we've made it crystal clear that most of us, although we don't care for the stupid questions, patiently abide and answer them because they are an unfortunate component of the show. I have never once lost my temper at a show in spite of those stupid questions and have always remained polite and helpful. I have answered every question in a polite manner, even though those stupid questions can get old very quickly.
You need to seriously tone down your accusations. I feel very confident that I have not ever turned anyone away from the hobby. Maybe then it makes me dishonest that I act interested in stupid questions, but I have every right to feel privately annoyed by them even if I don't show it publically.
I will be very interested for your proof that I have ever turned anyone away from the hobby. I'm waiting.
Paul3 wrote:The link to my club is at the bottom of my posts as the one marked "www". Or, you can just click here: www.ssmrc.org I'm the one with the full beard and wearing a hat behind the sign.....
....
NOW that's a motley looking crew if ever I saw one.
Shoot, if I lived in massachusetts I'd fit right in.
Paul3 wrote:cordon,I'd like to know what "groups" you're talking about. There aren't that many RR clubs in NH, MA or ME, and since I'm in one of them, I'd like to know what you have against us. Here's a guy (Spikejones52002) complaining about some G-scale club in Indiana, and here you are out of right field tossing darts at three states' worth of RR clubs not only 1000 miles from Indiana, but even further away than where you are (Texas). What did we ever do to you? BTW, please be specific. If you can't remember names of people, at least tell us which clubs gave you a hard time.We don't know what Spikejones52002 was like to this club in IN. As far as we know, he could have come across as a jerk or a saint to these people. I know that if a new person came into my club and started questioning things we do, I don't think they'd get a very favorable response. That's basic human nature. If you go into a club, realize that it's you joining the club, not the club joining you.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
You're right, of course. We don't know how he presented himself on that first visit. But the description of the visit struck me as the people being very, very reserved.
Please don't read too much into my comments. I was trying to make light of the situation a little bit to hint that Spikejones52002 wasn't necessarily being singled out. I don't have anything against anyone, especially New Englanders, because I am one.
I was born in Concord, NH, and grew up in eastern Massachusetts. My whole family still lives in eastern Massachusetts. My recollection is that when people moved to New England from other parts of the country, they often found that New Englanders were slow to welcome them and even slower to make friends. This was especially tough on grade school children and teenagers who moved to our town. When I moved to other parts of the country (and to Europe, too), it appeared to me that people were much more outgoing than in New England.
I should have been more specific about the "groups" I wrote of. Please see my post on the first page of this thread about one model RR club. In my sentence I meant that in those states one may find Boy Scout groups, parent-teacher groups, church groups, bicycle riding groups, etc., that appear to be slow to warm up to a newcomer.
The original theme of this thread was trying to understand why model railroaders sometimes appear to be standoffish. Many people have contributed anecdotes and opinions to try to explain why we sometimes appear that way. Mine was just one more attempt.
These are my honest opinions, which I make on the basis of having lived in Massachusetts and New Hampshire 25 years and visiting there over another 40 years and talking/visiting with my relatives. I apologize if I overdid it.
Is that suppose to be a honest response or a smart *** one? I am guessing the ladder.
As far a clubs go. The second a new member pays his/her Dues he/she has every right to speak up against somthing that does not seem right. At least to voice there opinion. If the said club says you have no say so in it yet I would promptly ask for my cash back. I do not beat around the bush I say what is on my mind.
At the same time I understand why the so called "stupid" questions come up. Ive had freinds who was turned away from the hobby because of jerks. First impressions are everything.
A club looking to expand their membership, Should have Greeted me.
I respectively walked into the meeting room. Before the Standing Host or moderator opened the meeting. I respectively greeted and said my name.
ALL I GOT WAS LOOKS, NOBODY returned my greeting....
After the meeting and during the refreshments, ONLY one person said something in my direction as he passed by me.
IF you are a closed club DO NOT accept a request for attendance.
Later I did meet members from this club at G.R. conventions and Displays in Malls seeking people to attend their club. I just passed by with out a second look.
spikejones52002 wrote: A club looking to expand their membership, Should have Greeted me.I respectively walked into the meeting room. Before the Standing Host or moderator opened the meeting. I respectively greeted and said my name.ALL I GOT WAS LOOKS, NOBODY returned my greeting....After the meeting and during the refreshments, ONLY one person said something in my direction as he passed by me.IF you are a closed club DO NOT accept a request for attendance.Later I did meet members from this club at G.R. conventions and Displays in Malls seeking people to attend their club. I just passed by with out a second look.
Those Yankees can be hard to get to.
Come down here to the south there is plenty of Hellos to go around. Not exactly open arms at first until you are evaluated for your interest in various local activities LOL.
Back home the Grocery store was a place where you got your stuff and left quick. Here in Arkansas it can take 2 hours to catch up for that week with 10-20 people from one end to the other.
Safety Valve wrote: Back home the Grocery store was a place where you got your stuff and left quick. Here in Arkansas it can take 2 hours to catch up for that week with 10-20 people from one end to the other.
Your not kidding about THAT! Here in Tn. it takes an hour to get one thing from the store on a Sunday. Too many folks blocking the aisles talking to people they just saw in church 10 minutes ago.
spikejones52002 wrote: I started My "G" collecting when I moved to N.W. Indiana.There are several "HO" clubs around. One day I found out about a "G" gauge club, Illana RR In Valpo, In. I found out when they are meeting and was asked to attend.It was a typical Winter Evening for N.W Indiana. I fought the Ice and snow to attend.I got there just early enough. I found the meeting room and found a seat.Just before the meeting started. I introduced myself. Everone looked up at me and NO ONE responded with a greeting. During an interesting meeting. I made several comments and asked several questions. The comments and questions were answered.Besides that NOT ONE PERSON SAID A WORD TO ME.After the meeting in the back of this persons factory was a large "G" floor layout and some riding RR rolling stock.Refreshments was available and enjoyed. One person walked by me and said, " look at the names on the (riding) cars."I told the Person (NEVER MET) (that E-mailed me the invite) to take me off his mailing list.
Spike sorry to hear of that bad experience, especially with G gaugers, maybe its just them frozen northern winters that brings out the curmongenly side of folks.
I guess being down here in the land of perpetual sunshine just brings out the better nature of people.
I had to laugh reading your experience cause it was almost verbatum my experience with that HOn3 group I mentioned...except that NO ONE responded even to my being there, at least they AKNOWLEDGED your existance.
Sometimes I just really have to wonder how these "clubs" manage to stay alive with such ty treatment of possible new members
I should point out that the HOn3 group was also looking for new members, but sad to say I think they weren't looking for new memebrs with an interest in narrow gauge, but looking for new members of the same age, race, religion, income, political, clothing and taste in automobiles as existing members, which was sad becuase they looked like they would soon be dropping off like flies in the coming years.
I also noticed in hindsight a warning sign, namely that this layout had been under construction for over 10 years, half of it was only partially hardshell sceneried, most of it was still just track on benchwork, IOWs I had the impression they spent more time aurguing over HOW to do it then in actuall doing OF it
vsmith wrote: spikejones52002 wrote: I started My "G" collecting when I moved to N.W. Indiana.There are several "HO" clubs around. One day I found out about a "G" gauge club, Illana RR In Valpo, In. I found out when they are meeting and was asked to attend.It was a typical Winter Evening for N.W Indiana. I fought the Ice and snow to attend.I got there just early enough. I found the meeting room and found a seat.Just before the meeting started. I introduced myself. Everone looked up at me and NO ONE responded with a greeting. During an interesting meeting. I made several comments and asked several questions. The comments and questions were answered.Besides that NOT ONE PERSON SAID A WORD TO ME.After the meeting in the back of this persons factory was a large "G" floor layout and some riding RR rolling stock.Refreshments was available and enjoyed. One person walked by me and said, " look at the names on the (riding) cars."I told the Person (NEVER MET) (that E-mailed me the invite) to take me off his mailing list.Spike sorry to hear of that bad experience, especially with G gaugers, maybe its just them frozen northern winters that brings out the curmongenly side of folks.I guess being down here in the land of perpetual sunshine just brings out the better nature of people.I had to laugh reading your experience cause it was almost verbatum my experience with that HOn3 group I mentioned...except that NO ONE responded even to my being there, at least they AKNOWLEDGED your existance. Sometimes I just really have to wonder how these "clubs" manage to stay alive with such ty treatment of possible new membersI should point out that the HOn3 group was also looking for new members, but sad to say I think they weren't looking for new memebrs with an interest in narrow gauge, but looking for new members of the same age, race, religion, income, political, clothing and taste in automobiles as existing members, which was sad becuase they looked like they would soon be dropping off like flies in the coming years. I also noticed in hindsight a warning sign, namely that this layout had been under construction for over 10 years, half of it was only partially hardshell sceneried, most of it was still just track on benchwork, IOWs I had the impression they spent more time aurguing over HOW to do it then in actuall doing OF it
Or one that is starved of manpower, funds and left to rot for want of TLC.
I don't even want to join a MRR club after the reception I got from the currator of the LHS. I'm a fairly friendly person and I went to the LHS to purchase my start up items and was trying to make new friends in the hobby. Well this place had been previously owned by an older gentleman who still hung out at the shop although he had sold the business off. I started talking to him and he invited me to the club layout get togethers on Friday nights. But after I got the extreme cold shoulder from the current owner (one more than one occassion)(sp?)of the shop and knew that he was part of that club I totally lost interest. I mean cold, like I was a bother to him and I was a customer in his store for crying out loud!!!
Listen, if you are not friendly towards new comers and you want to gaurd your MRR secrets, then don't complain when you have to pay more dues to your own club because you can't get new lasting memberships. What's the old axim,? you catch more flies with honey? Something like that. Regardless, just as I'm not part of any yuppie motor cycle club, a loner, I will not belong to any MRR club around my town either.
BUT!!! I may check out the one that Penn State, http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/mrrc/ , has since I work here and practically live at work anyhow. Whew!! Thanks, just had to get that off my chest.
ARR
AltoonaRailroader,Lemme see if I got this right: You refuse to join any club (even a motorcycle club) because the owner of a local hobby shop who happens to be a member of a local model railroad club isn't a friendly person to you? What about the rest of the members of said club? Are they like the current owner, or the ex-owner of said LHS?
Now if you're really a connisseur of attitude, try going into a music store, one that sells instruments. Now that is attitude...makes a hobby shop or a club look like triple A. Sales musicians are a perfect storm of ego, insecurity and arrogance. I like going in there just to noodle on a guitar and enjoy all the reactions.
Things could be worse. At least the clubs have trains to watch.
I too was ignored at the local model railroad club. They were having an open house one night, so I went down there to check it out. Nobody even acknowledged my existence--they all ignored my questions. They were more concerned about who made the best F unit.Needless to say, I haven't been back, and I bet the other guests haven't been either.
shawnee wrote:I too was completely ignored when I went to a club, but i guess I should have known better. After all, it was named "Existential Model Railroaders Club" and it was held in a Benedictine monastery.
Shawnee,Should you by happenstance find yourself visiting either of the clubs I am a member of I guarantee you will be spoken to not only by me but,by all members present except "Old Dad"..He doesn't speak to much to anybody because of his speech problem.
shawnee wrote:Now if you're really a connisseur of attitude, try going into a music store, one that sells instruments. Now that is attitude...makes a hobby shop or a club look like triple A. Sales musicians are a perfect storm of ego, insecurity and arrogance. I like going in there just to noodle on a guitar and enjoy all the reactions. Things could be worse. At least the clubs have trains to watch.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! :P i know this one all too well! whats even better is when the crotchety salesperson pulls you on the side later and says "dude.. dont tell anyone i said this but you ROCK on the guitar"
:P haha gotta love musicians.
selector wrote:Walk in wi' a set of bagpipes and offer tay play them a wee tune.
Scotland the Brave
Then
Highland Laddie
There will be a few running TO your pipes the rest will want to find a exit LOL.
Safety Valve wrote: selector wrote:Walk in wi' a set of bagpipes and offer tay play them a wee tune.Scotland the BraveThenHighland LaddieThere will be a few running TO your pipes the rest will want to find a exit LOL.
Especially since I don't know even how to play the bagpipes!
Hey, can I get arrested for that?
Ok Selector..where do i get the bagpipes.
Luckily, I've only been in one music store that treated me with arrogance. They went out of business last year.
I'm honestly concerned about so many reports of unfriendly model railroaders at clubs. When this thread started, I expected it to be a rare event. Now, I'm wondering.
cordon,You have to realize that all you're going to hear about are negative reactions (more or less). People who have positive experiences hardly ever post about it. For example, how many posts have you seen extolling the virtues of Athearn Genesis F-units & SD45's or Atlas SD26's (all three considered "better than brass" when it comes to fidelity to prototype by those who I figure know what they are talking about). These are great, highly accurate models, but no one seems to talk much about them.
OTOH, take something like BLI products. How many threads are there that are negative in nature against BLI?
It's like anything. Bad news sells, good news is boring. Watch the evening news in any city, and all they talk about is death, fires, accidents, war, diseases, etc. They may have one "feel good" story, but that's about it. You would think that there's just as many good things that happen as bad, but not according to the news.
And on any forum, on any subject, it's the negative that get's all the replies and all the attention. So don't be surprised that you get all these negative stories about clubs and few good stories. It's just human nature.
Paul3 wrote: cordon,You have to realize that all you're going to hear about are negative reactions (more or less). People who have positive experiences hardly ever post about it. For example, how many posts have you seen extolling the virtues of Athearn Genesis F-units & SD45's or Atlas SD26's (all three considered "better than brass" when it comes to fidelity to prototype by those who I figure know what they are talking about). These are great, highly accurate models, but no one seems to talk much about them.OTOH, take something like BLI products. How many threads are there that are negative in nature against BLI? It's like anything. Bad news sells, good news is boring. Watch the evening news in any city, and all they talk about is death, fires, accidents, war, diseases, etc. They may have one "feel good" story, but that's about it. You would think that there's just as many good things that happen as bad, but not according to the news.And on any forum, on any subject, it's the negative that get's all the replies and all the attention. So don't be surprised that you get all these negative stories about clubs and few good stories. It's just human nature.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Paul is 100% correct.
I will add we have ONE SIDE of the Story..We never hear the other side of the story.