Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Sometimes you can be around Modelers and feel alone. It happens with any group of people doing whatever.
Most clubs say hello! Make you welcome and steer you to the trains and show you the good stuff and help introduce you to others. The two in my area that I know of (Arkansas Valley and the Crooked Rails) do this really well.
Now if that person has a throttle in thier hand and are "Locked" on to a train getting converstation out of that person will be the same as trying to elict a response from a boulder. Sometimes the quiet ones who dont want too much human contact hide behind the operating area where the public cannot get to them. These Gophers are generally very effective at keeping the railroad functional. They are just too "Busy" being happy doing what they are doing and not have to deal with you and me.
If you do happen to find yourself in a club that gives you the cold sholder or otherwise reacts to you as one would react to a spider in the kitchen then maybe you want to find another one that will be better for you socially or more open to communciation.
Not everyone will have the ability to walk up to you and say "HELLO!" some folks are shy and others too grumpy and occupied with thier own issues to deal with you.
What I think is worse is showing up at a high-brow club full of expensive technology trying to run that new Tyco. You will either be coldly showed the door or be center of attention.
One clue to me is the noise level. If everyone is being loud and talking to each other alot and things are going on such as a short somewhere or a train is being made up or perhaps a new member is being shown DCC for the first time... it is a great place to be.
Others with silence and bulletproof glass 3 feet from the edge of the railroad are not so good.
I deal with many people at work. And my favorites are those who ask a question that is safety related and recieve a negative response and return a few moments later trying the same problem from another angle. Those are the ones I remember. No is no and yes is yes. LOL.
Fifty years ago our local club just didn't like kids, period. They were the only club, and they were associated with the biggest local hobby shop (LHS). Needless to say, we kids did business with the other LHS, a garage operation where the man and wife owner were friendly and helpful. But they had no room for a layout in the garage, unfortunately.
People are funny (odd), and sometimes you just can't figure them out.
bb4884 wrote:I'm 17 and I feel cast-out wherever I go.
I'm seventeen and the club I go to really likes us youngins. We are handy for stuff like getting under the benchwork, stuff like that.
Add in the vacuum and your in business.
-Smoke
I feel your pain. I'm 17 and I feel like I don't get taken seriously enough. For instance, my friend and I (he also happens to be 17, at least for another month...) have been out railfanning on many occasions when the local police shows up and asks us what we're doing. Being on public property, we would honestly say "We're trainwatching!" Usually, the officer looks at us with disbelief and then tells us to "mind ourselves". With that, he usually takes his leave.
I know he's just doing his job, though. I mean, what would you think if you saw a couple of teenagers hanging around the tracks?
-Brandon
To be blunt, I have noticed more socially inept people in this hobby than in others. Let's face it, a lot of "weird" people like trains. Considering this demographic, your treatment isn't too surprising. That doesn't excuse the behavior, it is just par for the course I guess.
-Mike
PBoilermaker wrote:To be blunt, I have noticed more socially inept people in this hobby than in others. Let's face it, a lot of "weird" people like trains. Considering this demographic, your treatment isn't too surprising. That doesn't excuse the behavior, it is just par for the course I guess.-Mike
I agree. We're like the computer geeks - we relate more to the technology.
Enjoy
Paul
zxb1 wrote:At least you were'nt insulted on what scale you were running, The last train show I attended they the club I was observing asked what scale am I running. I told them Ho, then one of the club members laughed and said yeah hughley oversized. I guesse that what you expect from n-scalers at a train show.
The correct response is "But I can't see the Nothing scale". If they laugh the ice is broken, if they don't it's time to walk away.
PBoilermaker wrote: To be blunt, I have noticed more socially inept people in this hobby than in others. Let's face it, a lot of "weird" people like trains. Considering this demographic, your treatment isn't too surprising. That doesn't excuse the behavior, it is just par for the course I guess.-Mike
Midnight Railroader wrote: PBoilermaker wrote: To be blunt, I have noticed more socially inept people in this hobby than in others. Let's face it, a lot of "weird" people like trains. Considering this demographic, your treatment isn't too surprising. That doesn't excuse the behavior, it is just par for the course I guess.-MikeMaybe they/we are attracted to this hobby precisely because--unlike, say, bowling--it does not require interaction with others.
Any hobby that revolves around technology and allows one to be reclusive is going to be a nerdy one. That's why I try not to take it or myself too seriously, and because the goal is to relax and reduce stress, not pile it on. Becoming disabled brought the effects of excessive stress on our bodies home to me in a big way, which is why I try not to sweat the small stuff anymore. I do what I like, and have little time for people who are obsessed with pointing out what you ought to care about. Yes, I've been known to use the "lighten up " mantra, because some people need to. You'll find a significant number of people in any activity who are enjoying their ego trip more than the activity itself.
Any group of people that responds to a newcomer with indifference or a "circle the wagons" mentality is a sure sign of their insecurity, and that it's time to move on.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
myred02 wrote: bb4884 wrote:I'm 17 and I feel cast-out wherever I go.I feel your pain. I'm 17 and I feel like I don't get taken seriously enough. For instance, my friend and I (he also happens to be 17, at least for another month...) have been out railfanning on many occasions when the local police shows up and asks us what we're doing. Being on public property, we would honestly say "We're trainwatching!" Usually, the officer looks at us with disbelief and then tells us to "mind ourselves". With that, he usually takes his leave.I know he's just doing his job, though. I mean, what would you think if you saw a couple of teenagers hanging around the tracks? -Brandon
Actually, that happens to people of all ages. I am 70, a church pastor, and have been an active modeler since my teen years. But I have been approached by police at various times and various places and asked "what I am doing". The funniest time was a couple of years ago when I was parked at a crossing on the ATSF Transcon mainline, 1/2 mile from my church watching trains, and the sheriff patrol stopped to check on me. One came over and started giving me a bad time, suddenly the second officer came running over and told the first to leave me alone, I was his pastor. We had a good laugh, I told the story the next Sunday and all was well.
Just remember, they are doing their job and if so, they will question anyone of any age. Enjoy the hobby, I have.
Bob
I agree with this too, although I don't think that this hobby is dominated by ‘socially inept' participants - we just a higher proportion than a typical group.
In my experiences, I think our hobby tends to attract introverts. Introverts generally don't prefer to socialize and would much rather be doing something on their own. In fact, I would not be at all surprised if ‘lone wolf' modelers out number those who belong to clubs.
As far as clubs go, it's always tough to break into an established club. There always seems be a core group who been there forever and tend warm up very slowly to new people. Perhaps because they are waiting to see if a newbie will hang around long enough to learn the ropes and contribute. Maybe they have seen too many new people come in, look around, play a little, and then disappear. I'm not saying that this justifies their cold behavior, but it might explain it.
Big Beast,A question or two for you: How many other types of hobbies have club buildings, and what kind of non-RR clubs have you been to? Most other clubs are 1st and foremorst a social club that does other things (organizations like the Jay-Cees, KofC, Lions, Elks, etc.). Model RR clubs are 1st and foremost building and operating a model railroad, and the social part comes from that. For example, my club's By-Laws states that the purpose of the club is to: 1). Build, operate and maintain a model railroad, 2). Promote fellowship amongst the members, etc. Note the order of those.
My point is that in most other non-RR clubs, the reason people join is to be sociable. For RR clubs, the reason people join is to build or operate a model railroad and increase their hobby skills or to share them. Being sociable is a derivitive of that, and as long as you are just a tiny bit sociable to your own fellow members, you can last a long, long time in a RR club. Meanwhile, if you aren't socially outgoing in a more typical non-RR club, I don't think you'd last too long.
My second question is: is it the club, or is it you? No offense, but as 14 year member of my club, I have often been ignored by visitors, too. For example, when I see a stranger in the club as I'm walking by, I'll say "Hi.", but if the guy blows me off with a mumbled greeting...what am I supposed to do? Stop and ask him about his family? Quiz him on his modeling techniques? Ask him what his favorite RR is? It's a two way street, this communication thing.
As far as not being taken seriously, I still get that too, IMHO. And I'm 32. But since I'm in a club that has far, far more gray hairs in it than dark ones (if you know what I mean), and since I've been in the club since I was 15 (before I was a paying member), I think that there's a lot of carry over from those days. That folks still see me as "the kid", and heck, except for one other guy, I've been the youngest guy in the club since I joined it in 1993.
For example, if I say that a certain siding should or shouldn't be on the plan, I get a lot of resistance. Meanwhile, if someone who is a retiree (or close to it) says the same thing I do, suddenly it's given real consideration. The funny thing is that I've been a member and a model railroader longer than several of these members even if they are decades older than I. Sigh.
Sometimes I feel like Rodney Dangerfield.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Paul3 wrote: For example, if I say that a certain siding should or shouldn't be on the plan, I get a lot of resistance. Meanwhile, if someone who is a retiree (or close to it) says the same thing I do, suddenly it's given real consideration.Sometimes I feel like Rodney Dangerfield. Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
For example, if I say that a certain siding should or shouldn't be on the plan, I get a lot of resistance. Meanwhile, if someone who is a retiree (or close to it) says the same thing I do, suddenly it's given real consideration.
I know what you mean on that one. I guess it's that old saying "With age comes wisdom." (Not always)
pastorbob wrote: myred02 wrote: bb4884 wrote:I'm 17 and I feel cast-out wherever I go.I feel your pain. I'm 17 and I feel like I don't get taken seriously enough. For instance, my friend and I (he also happens to be 17, at least for another month...) have been out railfanning on many occasions when the local police shows up and asks us what we're doing. Being on public property, we would honestly say "We're trainwatching!" Usually, the officer looks at us with disbelief and then tells us to "mind ourselves". With that, he usually takes his leave.I know he's just doing his job, though. I mean, what would you think if you saw a couple of teenagers hanging around the tracks? -Brandon Actually, that happens to people of all ages. I am 70, a church pastor, and have been an active modeler since my teen years. But I have been approached by police at various times and various places and asked "what I am doing". The funniest time was a couple of years ago when I was parked at a crossing on the ATSF Transcon mainline, 1/2 mile from my church watching trains, and the sheriff patrol stopped to check on me. One came over and started giving me a bad time, suddenly the second officer came running over and told the first to leave me alone, I was his pastor. We had a good laugh, I told the story the next Sunday and all was well. Just remember, they are doing their job and if so, they will question anyone of any age. Enjoy the hobby, I have.Bob
Back in the fall of last year I was parked at the T&OC station and was reading the latest issue of Railfan between train while sipping on a Diet Pepsi when a Police Officer drove by..I heard him tell his dispatcher on my scanner that "The car in question is just that train guy that comes here a lot." He wave as he drove by.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
on30francisco wrote:I've had many experiences of being ignored or given the attitude by other modelers in clubs, NMRA meetings (during my days of membership), LHSs, or train shows. I have found many of these places very cliquish and unfriendly toward newcomers and others whose modeling interests are different than the majority. This is a shame because it discourages potential modelers and showcases our hobby in a very negative light to the general public. Despite my negative experiences, I have found the Large Scale community to be much more laid back, less cliquish, open-minded, and diverse when it comes to modelers and modeling. Although I love this hobby, I try to avoid going to most hobby shops or modeling events. I get most of my supplies either online or at arts and crafts stores. I must say that the online hobby shops and suppliers, in contrast to the many LHSs I've been to, treat me as if I'm their only customer.
No offense meant here but,maybe its your attitude? The way you breeze into a hobby shop,club or NMRA can turn friendly folks off..Maybe you show a unfriendly attitude by being stand offish by not speaking to anybody..I have seen guys I would not give the time of day to because of their haughty looking attitude because of the smirk on their face.Its really a 2 way street.On the other hand I have visited clubs where some of the members was rather stand offish while others was friendly.Another thing..Local NMRA meets usually means there are guys there that has known each other for years..So,what might seem like a "cliquish atitude" is no more then long standing friendships.
Now I buy 99% of my stuff on line and I feel I am no more then a cold computer page to the dealers I been dealing with for the last 6 years unlike some of the friendly hobby shops I been in.
BRAKIE wrote: No offense meant here but,maybe its your attitude? The way you breeze into a hobby shop,club or NMRA can turn friendly folks off..Maybe you show a unfriendly attitude by being stand offish by not speaking to anybody..I have seen guys I would not give the time of day to because of their haughty looking attitude because of the smirk on their face.Its really a 2 way street.On the other hand I have visited clubs where some of the members was rather stand offish while others was friendly.Another thing..Local NMRA meets usually means there are guys there that has known each other for years..So,what might seem like a "cliquish atitude" is no more then long standing friendships.
I think in the case of new club members (or prospects), the burden of initiating a friendly attitude should fall squarely on the existing club members. After a time, I think the new guys will have to make up their minds if they intend to stay and what sort of attitude they will have going forward. Hopefully it will be positive and an asset to the club.
In a case of a LHS (or any retail environment), it's a whole different story. All customers HAVE to be treated well regardless of whatever vibe they put off - unless they intend to rob the store or something...
Bruce,I think that its a 2 way street.The new members (or prospects) should start by introducing their selves to other club members and vice versa.In times past I am sure there are those that thought I was stand offish at first when I join a club.However,in MY case I was observing the other members for their reactions to me as a new member...Many broke the ice by speaking first.Once I broke my ice I found the group was open and friendly to all.
I will speak to visitors at the club and wait and see their response will be.Some mumble a reply while others start asking questions..Then there are the very few that doesn't acknowledge my "Hello" or "Hello and Welcome!".
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
BRAKIE wrote: Bruce,I think that its a 2 way street.The new members (or prospects) should start by introducing their selves to other club members and vice versa.In times past I am sure there are those that thought I was stand offish at first when I join a club.However,in MY case I was observing the other members for their reactions to me as a new member...Many broke the ice by speaking first.Once I broke my ice I found the group was open and friendly to all.I will speak to visitors at the club and wait and see their response will be.Some mumble a reply while others start asking questions..Then there are the very few that doesn't acknowledge my "Hello" or "Hello and Welcome!".
Larry,
I agree that it's a two way street - but the ice needs to be first broken. I think it's got to be up the club members to make the first move to break the ice, and then it's up to the new person to reciprocate or do whatever he/she is going to do. Hopefully it will be reciprocated and the new person will feel welcome.
Now there will be new people who will take it upon themselves to make that first move, and that's great. But I think clubs really shouldn't depend on that.
When I first moved into my neighborhood, I was surrounded by well established owners who have lived there for many years. Not one ever welcomed us. After a time we found most of them not to be bad neighbors, but as we bought the first house to be sold there in a number of years, they were not used to dealing with new people. One of my sourest early encounters occurred when I was (unknowingly) dumping leaves just across a property line and was confronted by a cantankerous old neighbor I had yet to ever meet. After his rant, I apologized and then openly wondered why he would greet a new neighbor in that fashion. He complained that since I never bothered to introduce myself that I was the one being unfriendly.
Sometimes I see this same sort of attitude played out in clubs, schools, and churches.
I was in 3 Rocket clubs in my youth with lots of people with various ages. Rarely did I run into a *** as I like to call them. One did have it's own building they leased for projects and such. However to bring first question to a fine point. should it matter if a club has it's own building?
Look at people who love fishing. Could that be considerd a hobby? I would think so Although some consider it a sport.. I have been doing that for yrs and very very rarely do I run into any pricks. 90% of the time if you ask are they biting you will get a prompt answer. Most times they will even tell you what bait is working and what is not.
I certainly hope it is not me. I have walked into many clubs will say Hi only maybe 70% of the time I will get a hello. The reason I bring this up is with rising gas prices. Some people who wish to join a club have extremely limited choices on a club to join. People in this hobby really need to lighten up. With prices for this hobby going through the roof. they are only rushing along a dying breed.