Paul3 wrote: cordon,You have to realize that all you're going to hear about are negative reactions (more or less). People who have positive experiences hardly ever post about it. For example, how many posts have you seen extolling the virtues of Athearn Genesis F-units & SD45's or Atlas SD26's (all three considered "better than brass" when it comes to fidelity to prototype by those who I figure know what they are talking about). These are great, highly accurate models, but no one seems to talk much about them.OTOH, take something like BLI products. How many threads are there that are negative in nature against BLI? It's like anything. Bad news sells, good news is boring. Watch the evening news in any city, and all they talk about is death, fires, accidents, war, diseases, etc. They may have one "feel good" story, but that's about it. You would think that there's just as many good things that happen as bad, but not according to the news.And on any forum, on any subject, it's the negative that get's all the replies and all the attention. So don't be surprised that you get all these negative stories about clubs and few good stories. It's just human nature.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
cordon,You have to realize that all you're going to hear about are negative reactions (more or less). People who have positive experiences hardly ever post about it. For example, how many posts have you seen extolling the virtues of Athearn Genesis F-units & SD45's or Atlas SD26's (all three considered "better than brass" when it comes to fidelity to prototype by those who I figure know what they are talking about). These are great, highly accurate models, but no one seems to talk much about them.
OTOH, take something like BLI products. How many threads are there that are negative in nature against BLI?
It's like anything. Bad news sells, good news is boring. Watch the evening news in any city, and all they talk about is death, fires, accidents, war, diseases, etc. They may have one "feel good" story, but that's about it. You would think that there's just as many good things that happen as bad, but not according to the news.
And on any forum, on any subject, it's the negative that get's all the replies and all the attention. So don't be surprised that you get all these negative stories about clubs and few good stories. It's just human nature.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Paul is 100% correct.
I will add we have ONE SIDE of the Story..We never hear the other side of the story.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Luckily, I've only been in one music store that treated me with arrogance. They went out of business last year.
I'm honestly concerned about so many reports of unfriendly model railroaders at clubs. When this thread started, I expected it to be a rare event. Now, I'm wondering.
Safety Valve wrote: selector wrote:Walk in wi' a set of bagpipes and offer tay play them a wee tune.Scotland the BraveThenHighland LaddieThere will be a few running TO your pipes the rest will want to find a exit LOL.
selector wrote:Walk in wi' a set of bagpipes and offer tay play them a wee tune.
Scotland the Brave
Then
Highland Laddie
There will be a few running TO your pipes the rest will want to find a exit LOL.
Especially since I don't know even how to play the bagpipes!
Hey, can I get arrested for that?
Ok Selector..where do i get the bagpipes.
shawnee wrote:Now if you're really a connisseur of attitude, try going into a music store, one that sells instruments. Now that is attitude...makes a hobby shop or a club look like triple A. Sales musicians are a perfect storm of ego, insecurity and arrogance. I like going in there just to noodle on a guitar and enjoy all the reactions. Things could be worse. At least the clubs have trains to watch.
Now if you're really a connisseur of attitude, try going into a music store, one that sells instruments. Now that is attitude...makes a hobby shop or a club look like triple A. Sales musicians are a perfect storm of ego, insecurity and arrogance. I like going in there just to noodle on a guitar and enjoy all the reactions.
Things could be worse. At least the clubs have trains to watch.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! :P i know this one all too well! whats even better is when the crotchety salesperson pulls you on the side later and says "dude.. dont tell anyone i said this but you ROCK on the guitar"
:P haha gotta love musicians.
shawnee wrote:I too was completely ignored when I went to a club, but i guess I should have known better. After all, it was named "Existential Model Railroaders Club" and it was held in a Benedictine monastery.
Shawnee,Should you by happenstance find yourself visiting either of the clubs I am a member of I guarantee you will be spoken to not only by me but,by all members present except "Old Dad"..He doesn't speak to much to anybody because of his speech problem.
I too was ignored at the local model railroad club. They were having an open house one night, so I went down there to check it out. Nobody even acknowledged my existence--they all ignored my questions. They were more concerned about who made the best F unit.Needless to say, I haven't been back, and I bet the other guests haven't been either.
AltoonaRailroader,Lemme see if I got this right: You refuse to join any club (even a motorcycle club) because the owner of a local hobby shop who happens to be a member of a local model railroad club isn't a friendly person to you? What about the rest of the members of said club? Are they like the current owner, or the ex-owner of said LHS?
I don't even want to join a MRR club after the reception I got from the currator of the LHS. I'm a fairly friendly person and I went to the LHS to purchase my start up items and was trying to make new friends in the hobby. Well this place had been previously owned by an older gentleman who still hung out at the shop although he had sold the business off. I started talking to him and he invited me to the club layout get togethers on Friday nights. But after I got the extreme cold shoulder from the current owner (one more than one occassion)(sp?)of the shop and knew that he was part of that club I totally lost interest. I mean cold, like I was a bother to him and I was a customer in his store for crying out loud!!!
Listen, if you are not friendly towards new comers and you want to gaurd your MRR secrets, then don't complain when you have to pay more dues to your own club because you can't get new lasting memberships. What's the old axim,? you catch more flies with honey? Something like that. Regardless, just as I'm not part of any yuppie motor cycle club, a loner, I will not belong to any MRR club around my town either.
BUT!!! I may check out the one that Penn State, http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/mrrc/ , has since I work here and practically live at work anyhow. Whew!! Thanks, just had to get that off my chest.
ARR
vsmith wrote: spikejones52002 wrote: I started My "G" collecting when I moved to N.W. Indiana.There are several "HO" clubs around. One day I found out about a "G" gauge club, Illana RR In Valpo, In. I found out when they are meeting and was asked to attend.It was a typical Winter Evening for N.W Indiana. I fought the Ice and snow to attend.I got there just early enough. I found the meeting room and found a seat.Just before the meeting started. I introduced myself. Everone looked up at me and NO ONE responded with a greeting. During an interesting meeting. I made several comments and asked several questions. The comments and questions were answered.Besides that NOT ONE PERSON SAID A WORD TO ME.After the meeting in the back of this persons factory was a large "G" floor layout and some riding RR rolling stock.Refreshments was available and enjoyed. One person walked by me and said, " look at the names on the (riding) cars."I told the Person (NEVER MET) (that E-mailed me the invite) to take me off his mailing list.Spike sorry to hear of that bad experience, especially with G gaugers, maybe its just them frozen northern winters that brings out the curmongenly side of folks.I guess being down here in the land of perpetual sunshine just brings out the better nature of people.I had to laugh reading your experience cause it was almost verbatum my experience with that HOn3 group I mentioned...except that NO ONE responded even to my being there, at least they AKNOWLEDGED your existance. Sometimes I just really have to wonder how these "clubs" manage to stay alive with such ty treatment of possible new membersI should point out that the HOn3 group was also looking for new members, but sad to say I think they weren't looking for new memebrs with an interest in narrow gauge, but looking for new members of the same age, race, religion, income, political, clothing and taste in automobiles as existing members, which was sad becuase they looked like they would soon be dropping off like flies in the coming years. I also noticed in hindsight a warning sign, namely that this layout had been under construction for over 10 years, half of it was only partially hardshell sceneried, most of it was still just track on benchwork, IOWs I had the impression they spent more time aurguing over HOW to do it then in actuall doing OF it
spikejones52002 wrote: I started My "G" collecting when I moved to N.W. Indiana.There are several "HO" clubs around. One day I found out about a "G" gauge club, Illana RR In Valpo, In. I found out when they are meeting and was asked to attend.It was a typical Winter Evening for N.W Indiana. I fought the Ice and snow to attend.I got there just early enough. I found the meeting room and found a seat.Just before the meeting started. I introduced myself. Everone looked up at me and NO ONE responded with a greeting. During an interesting meeting. I made several comments and asked several questions. The comments and questions were answered.Besides that NOT ONE PERSON SAID A WORD TO ME.After the meeting in the back of this persons factory was a large "G" floor layout and some riding RR rolling stock.Refreshments was available and enjoyed. One person walked by me and said, " look at the names on the (riding) cars."I told the Person (NEVER MET) (that E-mailed me the invite) to take me off his mailing list.
I started My "G" collecting when I moved to N.W. Indiana.
There are several "HO" clubs around. One day I found out about a "G" gauge club, Illana RR In Valpo, In. I found out when they are meeting and was asked to attend.
It was a typical Winter Evening for N.W Indiana. I fought the Ice and snow to attend.
I got there just early enough. I found the meeting room and found a seat.
Just before the meeting started. I introduced myself.
Everone looked up at me and NO ONE responded with a greeting.
During an interesting meeting. I made several comments and asked several questions. The comments and questions were answered.
Besides that NOT ONE PERSON SAID A WORD TO ME.
After the meeting in the back of this persons factory was a large "G" floor layout and some riding RR rolling stock.
Refreshments was available and enjoyed. One person walked by me and said, " look at the names on the (riding) cars."
I told the Person (NEVER MET) (that E-mailed me the invite) to take me off his mailing list.
Spike sorry to hear of that bad experience, especially with G gaugers, maybe its just them frozen northern winters that brings out the curmongenly side of folks.
I guess being down here in the land of perpetual sunshine just brings out the better nature of people.
I had to laugh reading your experience cause it was almost verbatum my experience with that HOn3 group I mentioned...except that NO ONE responded even to my being there, at least they AKNOWLEDGED your existance.
Sometimes I just really have to wonder how these "clubs" manage to stay alive with such ty treatment of possible new members
I should point out that the HOn3 group was also looking for new members, but sad to say I think they weren't looking for new memebrs with an interest in narrow gauge, but looking for new members of the same age, race, religion, income, political, clothing and taste in automobiles as existing members, which was sad becuase they looked like they would soon be dropping off like flies in the coming years.
I also noticed in hindsight a warning sign, namely that this layout had been under construction for over 10 years, half of it was only partially hardshell sceneried, most of it was still just track on benchwork, IOWs I had the impression they spent more time aurguing over HOW to do it then in actuall doing OF it
Or one that is starved of manpower, funds and left to rot for want of TLC.
Have fun with your trains
Safety Valve wrote: Back home the Grocery store was a place where you got your stuff and left quick. Here in Arkansas it can take 2 hours to catch up for that week with 10-20 people from one end to the other.
Back home the Grocery store was a place where you got your stuff and left quick. Here in Arkansas it can take 2 hours to catch up for that week with 10-20 people from one end to the other.
Your not kidding about THAT! Here in Tn. it takes an hour to get one thing from the store on a Sunday. Too many folks blocking the aisles talking to people they just saw in church 10 minutes ago.
Big Beast wrote:Well if some you cannot handle so called stupid questions maybe you should not attend shows. It is people like you that turn people away from the hobby. Like I have said most who do not get involved in the hobby have no idea how expensive some of what we have is. If you cannot look past that then join the nearest snoot club.
spikejones52002 wrote: A club looking to expand their membership, Should have Greeted me.I respectively walked into the meeting room. Before the Standing Host or moderator opened the meeting. I respectively greeted and said my name.ALL I GOT WAS LOOKS, NOBODY returned my greeting....After the meeting and during the refreshments, ONLY one person said something in my direction as he passed by me.IF you are a closed club DO NOT accept a request for attendance.Later I did meet members from this club at G.R. conventions and Displays in Malls seeking people to attend their club. I just passed by with out a second look.
A club looking to expand their membership, Should have Greeted me.
I respectively walked into the meeting room. Before the Standing Host or moderator opened the meeting. I respectively greeted and said my name.
ALL I GOT WAS LOOKS, NOBODY returned my greeting....
After the meeting and during the refreshments, ONLY one person said something in my direction as he passed by me.
IF you are a closed club DO NOT accept a request for attendance.
Later I did meet members from this club at G.R. conventions and Displays in Malls seeking people to attend their club. I just passed by with out a second look.
Those Yankees can be hard to get to.
Come down here to the south there is plenty of Hellos to go around. Not exactly open arms at first until you are evaluated for your interest in various local activities LOL.
Is that suppose to be a honest response or a smart *** one? I am guessing the ladder.
As far a clubs go. The second a new member pays his/her Dues he/she has every right to speak up against somthing that does not seem right. At least to voice there opinion. If the said club says you have no say so in it yet I would promptly ask for my cash back. I do not beat around the bush I say what is on my mind.
At the same time I understand why the so called "stupid" questions come up. Ive had freinds who was turned away from the hobby because of jerks. First impressions are everything.
Paul3 wrote:cordon,I'd like to know what "groups" you're talking about. There aren't that many RR clubs in NH, MA or ME, and since I'm in one of them, I'd like to know what you have against us. Here's a guy (Spikejones52002) complaining about some G-scale club in Indiana, and here you are out of right field tossing darts at three states' worth of RR clubs not only 1000 miles from Indiana, but even further away than where you are (Texas). What did we ever do to you? BTW, please be specific. If you can't remember names of people, at least tell us which clubs gave you a hard time.We don't know what Spikejones52002 was like to this club in IN. As far as we know, he could have come across as a jerk or a saint to these people. I know that if a new person came into my club and started questioning things we do, I don't think they'd get a very favorable response. That's basic human nature. If you go into a club, realize that it's you joining the club, not the club joining you.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
cordon,I'd like to know what "groups" you're talking about. There aren't that many RR clubs in NH, MA or ME, and since I'm in one of them, I'd like to know what you have against us. Here's a guy (Spikejones52002) complaining about some G-scale club in Indiana, and here you are out of right field tossing darts at three states' worth of RR clubs not only 1000 miles from Indiana, but even further away than where you are (Texas). What did we ever do to you? BTW, please be specific. If you can't remember names of people, at least tell us which clubs gave you a hard time.
We don't know what Spikejones52002 was like to this club in IN. As far as we know, he could have come across as a jerk or a saint to these people. I know that if a new person came into my club and started questioning things we do, I don't think they'd get a very favorable response. That's basic human nature. If you go into a club, realize that it's you joining the club, not the club joining you.
You're right, of course. We don't know how he presented himself on that first visit. But the description of the visit struck me as the people being very, very reserved.
Please don't read too much into my comments. I was trying to make light of the situation a little bit to hint that Spikejones52002 wasn't necessarily being singled out. I don't have anything against anyone, especially New Englanders, because I am one.
I was born in Concord, NH, and grew up in eastern Massachusetts. My whole family still lives in eastern Massachusetts. My recollection is that when people moved to New England from other parts of the country, they often found that New Englanders were slow to welcome them and even slower to make friends. This was especially tough on grade school children and teenagers who moved to our town. When I moved to other parts of the country (and to Europe, too), it appeared to me that people were much more outgoing than in New England.
I should have been more specific about the "groups" I wrote of. Please see my post on the first page of this thread about one model RR club. In my sentence I meant that in those states one may find Boy Scout groups, parent-teacher groups, church groups, bicycle riding groups, etc., that appear to be slow to warm up to a newcomer.
The original theme of this thread was trying to understand why model railroaders sometimes appear to be standoffish. Many people have contributed anecdotes and opinions to try to explain why we sometimes appear that way. Mine was just one more attempt.
These are my honest opinions, which I make on the basis of having lived in Massachusetts and New Hampshire 25 years and visiting there over another 40 years and talking/visiting with my relatives. I apologize if I overdid it.
Paul3 wrote:The link to my club is at the bottom of my posts as the one marked "www". Or, you can just click here: www.ssmrc.org I'm the one with the full beard and wearing a hat behind the sign.....
The link to my club is at the bottom of my posts as the one marked "www". Or, you can just click here: www.ssmrc.org I'm the one with the full beard and wearing a hat behind the sign.
....
NOW that's a motley looking crew if ever I saw one.
Shoot, if I lived in massachusetts I'd fit right in.
Enjoy
Paul
Ah, the anger...
I think we've made it crystal clear that most of us, although we don't care for the stupid questions, patiently abide and answer them because they are an unfortunate component of the show. I have never once lost my temper at a show in spite of those stupid questions and have always remained polite and helpful. I have answered every question in a polite manner, even though those stupid questions can get old very quickly.
You need to seriously tone down your accusations. I feel very confident that I have not ever turned anyone away from the hobby. Maybe then it makes me dishonest that I act interested in stupid questions, but I have every right to feel privately annoyed by them even if I don't show it publically.
I will be very interested for your proof that I have ever turned anyone away from the hobby. I'm waiting.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
The club is the South Shore Model Railway Club, Inc., est. 1938, in Hingham, MA. We have approx. 60 members, and are in the process of filling our 6300 sq ft. layout room in our 10,000 sq. ft. club building. Our HO layout is about 1/3rd built, with a long way to go.
We are located in an old (WWI-era) U.S. Navy ammunition depot, inside an above ground bunker used to store battleship rounds when ships would come to the Boston Navy Yard. As such, when we moved in, there was nothing but an empty shell with a 30' hole in the roof. Since then, we have added electricity, plumbing, telephone, heat & A/C (and fixed that hole). We patched the floor and sealed it, bricked over all the windows and painted the exterior (twice now), and have removed all the asbestos roof shingles and replaced them all with asphalt shingles.
Our club is very democratic, with a monthly member's Business Meeting that confirms or overturns all decisions. There is a 9-member Board of Directors (Pres.,V.P., Sec., Treas., Chief Engineer, and 4 Board Members) that takes care of the business of running club, but they, too, need their minutes confirmed at each monthly Business Meeting by the members. Each member gets one vote, and gets equal say about anything that comes before the body. We also have a lot of committees, ranging from the Audit Committee to the White Elephant Table Committee that are run by their Chairmans. These committee Chairmen are appointed by the Pres., approved by the BOD, then confirmed by the Members as they have a large effect on the club's layout, appearance, and future. The Chairman must read, then hand in a written report detailing all they've done in the past month, with all money's spent, etc. At this time, they can be questioned by the membership, and can make motions to get things done or confirmed.
Our club has a lot of rules. But these rules are written with 69 years of experience behind them in running an model railroad club. So far, they seem to work.
I can't deny there are "cliques" in our club. Folks with common interest are drawn together by their common experiences. It's human nature. But at least I feel, as a 14 year member, that I can talk to anyone in the club without being uncomfortable. Even those that I disagree & argue with the most are still those that I can sit back and have a drink with while discussing life, the universe and everything. Not all clubs are like that.
I like my club, I'm glad I joined, and I'm a much better model railroader because of it. I must admit, there are times when I want to rip my hair out and scream, but over all, the experience has been good for me and has provided a lot of good times (as well as some good friends).