Student Fare!

[AltonFan]

I doubt "Student Fare" had an effect on the number of young people entering the hobby one way or the other. There are a lot of other explanations why people are not going into model railroading. One is that railroads are less visible and less important than they were even in the 1960s. There are more hobby activities to compete with model railroading.

Moreoever, more than one of the "old timers" has reported that they dropped interest in model railroading during their teen years as school, cars, and girls occupied their attention. It was only once these guys got themselves established that they resumed the hobby.

However, there must be some growth in model railroading: the prices keep going up and new stuff keeps being introduced.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by TAMR159

[ That is the exact reason model railroading went downhill in my opinion: adult modellers being prejudice towards teen modellers. [/b]

I was unaware that model railroading "went downhill" at all.

Please elaborate on what you mean by this.

I meant in terms of participants. Model railroading has been slowy decreasing in it's amount of participents, hence the creation of WGH. However, WGH still doens't seem ot have it right, as it seems like they are still targetting the older audience when the real audience to target is teens & youth. Why? Because people usually develop their interests when they're relativeley young and go by experiences from those times. So, if you sort of like trains, but also like cars, and don't feel appreciated in the hobby of model railroading (like you're insignificant), well, you're going to get into the hobby of cars and whatnot. That's why I say target the youths!Get them hooked on trains when they're young and keep them hooked. There are MANY other perfectly good hobbies out their mesides model railroading and railfanning, so they can easily join one of those instead. That's one of the reasons I'm part of the TAMR (Teen Association of Model Railroads): Because I want to help make a difference and save this hobby.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TAMR159

[ That is the exact reason model railroading went downhill in my opinion: adult modellers being prejudice towards teen modellers. [/b]

I was unaware that model railroading "went downhill" at all.

Please elaborate on what you mean by this.

[Anonymous]

Student Fare was at it's best when it was like paint shop. A nice article with a letter's section at the end. That was before my time as a subscriber, but as I'm collecting the old issues (Way better deal than buying new ones, I'm afraid), I do read the older Student Fare's.

The best solution for both is probably a moderated forum here, and an obvious reference in the magazine.

[AltonFan]

First things first...

QUOTE: 4884bigboy asks:
What is the student fare?

"Student Fare" was a long-running column in Model Railroader, which was devoted to young modelers ranging in age from about ten or twelve through high school and college age. IIRC, the column was started in the late 1960s and disappeared in the 1990s. (IIRC, "Student Fare" readers were directed to an internet feature - where is that feature now?.) In the columns heyday, say the late 1970s-mid 1980s, it was moderated by a semi-retired MR editor, Willard "Andy" Anderson, who took letters from young readers and edited them into a coherent article. On one occasion, an article written by a high school student was billed as a "'Student Fare' Special Feature". During one of the Olson layout series, a column led off with a picture and a few paragraphs about then 12-year old Heidi Olson, who was working with her Dad on the project layout being featured.

QUOTE: pwkrueger reminds us:
..."I'm a 14-year old living in Peoria, IL who models BNSF - how do I keep my track clean?"...

pwkrueger's comments here do accurately capture the flavor of the typical "Student Fare" column.

About a quarter of a century ago, when I was a teen, I routinely skipped "Student Fare" to look at the other articles. (I must have read the column to some extent, given that I remember so much about it.) I have to agree with pwkrueger's complete assessment:

QUOTE: I enjoyed Student Fare, but I hope it doesn't get resurrected in the magazine again. A moderated forum on the MR web site would be a better venue for that type of thing. The "I'm a 14-year old living in Peoria, IL who models BNSF - how do I keep my track clean?" sort of thing is made for this media. Rather than wait 8-16 weeks to see his letter in the magazine and get one response to his question, the 14-year old from Peoria can connect a dozen other modelers who model BNSF or have ideas on track cleaning within a couple of hours.

I have to say I'm not sure sure a specialized, age-specific column is necessarily the best idea to promote young people's involvement in the hobby or interest in the magazine. (The "young author contest" seems a better approach in this regard.) ISTM that efforts to promote youth involvement would be best done apart from the magazine.

[Anonymous]

I wasn't a reader of MR in the period when Student Fare was a feature of the magazine. So my input is strictly theoretical.

If the aim is to interest teens in model railroading why not make the Teen Fare feature a part of the online Model Railroader? The teen target audience is the most computer literate of any age demographic so it makes sense to take advantage of the fact.

Second, I'd like to see a regular feature (monthly) of the print version of MR targeted to novices in the hobby, regardless of their age. From the comments it seems that the 'Paint Shop' filled that bill.

Third, how about adding a topic heading in this forum for Teens/Novices and testing the ideas presented so far for interest viability. From what I can tell many of the current forum posters are teens or near teens.

I'm all for encouraging beginners in the hobby in any way which offers promise of success.

Randy

[Anonymous]

Yeah you should bring back student fare,although on secoud thought I dont know maney students that could afford to stay in this increasingly high cost
hobby .I`m 65 retired,living on soc. sec.and a pension that gets eaten up by
my medical plan.If I didn`t already have motive power ,rolling stock,track&turnouts,I would not be able to afford to get in the hobby now !!!! Good luck kids.
Geo.
In OHIO

[detting]

When I was a student, I hardly had extra money or time for hobby stuff. I think that this basic fact is ignored in our dealing with students.

What can they do with the materials on-hand or cheaply available to further their efforts in the hobby. I think that we should go back to the days of the $1 model how-to articles. Present simple one evening cheap projects that students can get a sense of accomplishment without trying to squeeze the "Middle Division" in the dorm room.

For example RMC had an article on rolling 55 gallon drums. This would be the kind of article that everyone could use.

Later...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

I think student fare would be more wasted space and not in the best interest of improving the magazine.I mean all you will have is this,see my layout, see my SD40-2,see my what ever and no real modeling information..More like a show and tell at the local high school like it was before...

Well, picture this. You're a teen, write a letter to Model Railroader, and have it published in their magazine for thousands and thousands of people worldwide to see. Do you know how big of an honor that is? It basically makes the teens feel welcomed by having a place for them to be able to voice their opinions and whatnot in the world's largest model railroading magazine. This is a good way to help teens in the hobby and even get more teens into the hobby instead of having them get frustrated one day trying to lay track or whatnot on their layout and just quit all together. Besides, we're trying to save this hobby and youth is the key. That is the exact reason model railroading went downhill in my opinion: adult modellers being prejudice towards teen modellers. Why? Because most of these people believe the average teen is a punk kid who hangs out on the streets, destroys and vandalizes public property, and constantly blasts loud music in the middle of the night. In reality, however, this is far from true, as only a very small percentage of teens are this way. So, in my opinion, this column would help the model railroading world and certainly help WGH's campaign towards saving model railroading from utter abandonment. Now, I'm not pointing any fingers, but it still seems to me that there is still a large number of modellers out there who are prejudice towards teens. To those people, I simply have two words: GROW UP!

[bluepuma]

Always read it in the older issues, sometimes good stuff, but what would we lose? Perhaps it should appear now and then. If it's really value, there should be a forum topic that addresses modelers under 25.

I read for entertainment and information, perhaps a smile.

[CBQ_Guy]

To be fair, and to Kalmbach's credit, I recently discovered they are sponsoring the Teen Association of Model Railroaders (TAMR) web page at

http://tamr.org/

Thanks MR, I belonged to this group for a short time over 30 years ago. I was wondering if they still existed.

[BRAKIE]

I think student fare would be more wasted space and not in the best interest of improving the magazine.I mean all you will have is this,see my layout, see my SD40-2,see my what ever and no real modeling information..More like a show and tell at the local high school like it was before...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TiVoPrince

Nick,

MR needs to give you a job promoting their forum. Just look at the number of former lurkers who came out to make a first or second post for "Student Fare"!

JJ

He's right, Nick. You can take that good old skill displayed with TAMR and actually get paid for it!

[Anonymous]

Nick,

MR needs to give you a job promoting their forum. Just look at the number of former lurkers who came out to make a first or second post for "Student Fare"!

JJ

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Grayhound Challenger

I voted a yes to Return Student Fare. When it was closed it was the first time I ever remember being absolutly pissed with the Magazine and almost let my subscription run out. I also dearly miss the Paint Shop. That was where I generated about 2/3s of my modeling ideas. I agree that while stuent fare might not directly contribute to recruiting younger members to the hobby, it will (did) give them a place to show what they have accomplished and make them feel like they are a welcome and valued member of the model railroad hobby.

I completely agree, Teens need a a place to "make them feel thy are a welcome and valued member". This true of any activity, they need to feel as if they belong. This space devoted to teens encourages them to take an active role, rather than stand back and watch the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Grayhound Challenger

I voted a yes to Return Student Fare. When it was closed it was the first time I ever remember being absolutly pissed with the Magazine and almost let my subscription run out. I also dearly miss the Paint Shop. That was where I generated about 2/3s of my modeling ideas. I agree that while stuent fare might not directly contribute to recruiting younger members to the hobby, it will (did) give them a place to show what they have accomplished and make them feel like they are a welcome and valued member of the model railroad hobby.

Exactly. (I didn't even notice Paint Shop was gone! :'-( )

[Anonymous]

I voted a yes to Return Student Fare. When it was closed it was the first time I ever remember being absolutly pissed with the Magazine and almost let my subscription run out. I also dearly miss the Paint Shop. That was where I generated about 2/3s of my modeling ideas. I agree that while stuent fare might not directly contribute to recruiting younger members to the hobby, it will (did) give them a place to show what they have accomplished and make them feel like they are a welcome and valued member of the model railroad hobby.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by OHIC_B23-7R_4095

Bringing back Student Fare will not help bring beginners into the hobby. First of all, beginners would have to know the magazine exists, and many of them do not. I work at a hobby shop (part time) and a Jo-Ann's (Full Time). There are 2 people at JoAnns who are beginners, who are totally clueless, and come to me (of all people) for guidance. I, in turn (and with no compensation; LOL) turn them towards Model Railroader, but not without 1600 additional comments.

You see, bringing back a small two or three page (once all the ads are smashed into the page) is not going to bring new people into the hobby. You need people who are basically ambassadors to do nothing but go around to schools, community clubs, after-school places (YMCA, YWCA, etc...) and profess the wonderful apsects of the hobby. I have many new friends because of model railroading (the internet and railfanning helped), and we all like to show off our latest and greatest.

I am choosing not to vote. Bring it back if you want, but if there are no new people to cater to, then what's the point?

If you want to bring new people in, Athearn could stop rasing the prices on American-made products, and they (all manufacturers, that is) could do something amazing..... Advertise in NON railroad forums.....

Yes and no. How about those who do come across Model Railroader? If they see lots of huge kitbashing/scratch building projects and massive 30' x 40' layouts with expensive brass equipment runnign on it, it will, chances, are, intimidate them. Student Fare gave a place for the younger crowd in Model Railroader, a place where they felt welcomed without being intimidated by some of these prototype/detail freaks. So yes, I feel Student Fare should come back. Another thing Kalmbach could do (HINT HINT) is start a forum for teens, mainly for them to get help, but also for discussion of general railroad interest. Anyways, time for me to step down off of the soapbox.

[Anonymous]

Bringing back Student Fare will not help bring beginners into the hobby. First of all, beginners would have to know the magazine exists, and many of them do not. I work at a hobby shop (part time) and a Jo-Ann's (Full Time). There are 2 people at JoAnns who are beginners, who are totally clueless, and come to me (of all people) for guidance. I, in turn (and with no compensation; LOL) turn them towards Model Railroader, but not without 1600 additional comments.

You see, bringing back a small two or three page (once all the ads are smashed into the page) is not going to bring new people into the hobby. You need people who are basically ambassadors to do nothing but go around to schools, community clubs, after-school places (YMCA, YWCA, etc...) and profess the wonderful apsects of the hobby. I have many new friends because of model railroading (the internet and railfanning helped), and we all like to show off our latest and greatest.

I am choosing not to vote. Bring it back if you want, but if there are no new people to cater to, then what's the point?

If you want to bring new people in, Athearn could stop rasing the prices on American-made products, and they (all manufacturers, that is) could do something amazing..... Advertise in NON railroad forums.....

[Anonymous]

What is the student fare?

[Anonymous]

I feel that this subject heading should be reinstated into the magazine. I feel the more information included in the magaine the better it will be. They should start catering more towards the younger generation, they are the future.

Gregg Staley

[walthuston]

This is one way to get and keep youth in the hobby. Another way is for clubs/groups to invite youth to their meetings/shows.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by omv6369
[Bring it back. And stop dumbing-down the content of the rest of the magazine.

That and a few more articles, i swear the thing is 140 pages of ads and 10 pages of content now.

Jay.

[Hawks05]

students are just like everyone else? what the heck. students are like the 30 year veterans of the hobby. we have a lot to learn before you can even call us equal to any of them. peers yes but not equals thas Bull.

[Anonymous]

They need to bring it back. Youths would write to Willard Anderson telling them how pleased they were that they just assembled their Athearn boxcar, and he would write back words of encouragement and advice. That's what it was all about. The kids want someone who will listen to them, react favorably to their enthusiasm, and encourage them to go one. Rick Selby tried hard but couldnt do it. The letters he selected were off-topic and too broad. Basically, there needs to be a forum where kids can interact with the MR staff and get encouragement. I used to read Student Fare all the time. I even got a couple of letters in! The editor at MR at the time told me that students are just like everyone else and need to be integrated into the hobby as peers and equals- that was their reason for getting rid of the column then.

Bring it back. And stop dumbing-down the content of the rest of the magazine.

[Anonymous]

I voted a BIG YES! I feel a page in the magazine wouldn't be that big of deal but I'm not a publisher so I could be wrong. I loved student fare, it was awesome. Now, I do feel some what insulted by the idea that student fare would be "basic" or "dumb down". I know some of us are new and need to learn but some of us have been doing this longer than some adults and have sharpened our skills. I do a proto freelance ACL in modern. Due to necessity I have been forced to learn how to air brush and have gotten pretty good at it. I know that might not be saying a lot but I do feel that airbrushing, decaling, and detailing your locos is more advanced than what some of you think we are capable of. I know I still have a lot to learn and I'm learning from 3 of the best model railroaders (to me) Bob Harpe, Nate Stone, and Jack Armstrong. All are award winning modelers (by the NMRA) and they can vouch that the young guns have some talent that needs to be recognized. I feel too often in Model Railroader it focuses on the adults. I'm sure there are young modelers you can teach the adults a thing or two.
Just my thoughts...

Jason Castine

PS-If the ACL guy sees this, please email me, I’d like to talk to you.

[Hawks05]

that would be cool have a contest for teens to build stuff. i'd gladly do that as i want to start building kits since they are cheaper to get than RTR pieces. it could test our modeling skills and help us learn. send out coupons or something for say $.50 off something from a company sponsoring the contest. that would be cool. or even a photo contest say teens send in photos of their layouts. i'd be interested in stuff like that. especially the build a kit thing. that would be cool.

[Anonymous]

It seems Paint Shop and Student Fair are the two most often requested former regular columns to be returned to the pages of MR. I stopped buying MR on a monthly basis about a decade ago. Since then, I've bought the occasional article here or there when a set of plans or (amazing as this might sound) when an article struck my interest. Otherwise, I feel MR has become a sort of "Reader's Digest" train oriented magazine. The articles are all pretty much written in the same writing style, are about the same length word/paragraph count-wise and don't vary much month to month. What happened to the variety you could get in the 80's? An Art Current kitbashing article, a Malcolm Furlow scenery article, some electronics project, a nice freight car done by Jim Hediger in Paint Shop, an interpolation of a few letters from teen modelers by Andy Anderson in Student Fair, a beefy Bull Session column towards the rear of the magazine, Club News and so much more I may be overlooking? I randomly picked out a recent copy of MR in a stack by my PC here and the layout feature was about a layout the owner had built for him - it's not his work but rather the work of a professional layout builder, no wonder I skipped that article the first time around. More variety is what MR needs.

[pwkrueger]

I enjoyed Student Fare, but I hope it doesn't get resurrected in the magazine again. A moderated forum on the MR web site would be a better venue for that type of thing. The "I'm a 14-year old living in Peoria, IL who models BNSF - how do I keep my track clean?" sort of thing is made for this media. Rather than wait 8-16 weeks to see his letter in the magazine and get one response to his question, the 14-year old from Peoria can connect a dozen other modelers who model BNSF or have ideas on track cleaning within a couple of hours.

I'd rather see the young author contest be made a regular occurance or have a regular column that features models or techniques of a young model railroader. Maybe there could be modeling contests - build DPM kit #??? using these rules and send us a photo by two months from now . Manufacturers could get involved, perhaps sponsoring the contest, offering prizes for the winners or coupons for every contest entry.

Anyway, I guess my point is that a young modelers column in MR should focus on model building instead of letter writing. That's my two-cents.

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA

[Anonymous]

Student fare was read by both students and adults no longer students. It is probably the most requested piece to be returned to MR.