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QUOTE: Originally posted by skibbs4 Why bring back Student Fare when the whole magazine is devoted to beginners now? If MR went back to publishing the best of the best and stopped dumbing down their content in an attempt to gain readership, then there would be more of a need for Student Fare type content. Right now, all the articles are shorter, less detail is given, articles are of a more basic nature, and in an attempt to make all articles as widespread as possible, everything feels washed out. I think MR needs to rekindle some WOW factor, and show everyone some amazing modeling so that we can dream about being better modelers and then work to become better modelers. Give us something to strive for. Mike Skibbe www.cgwrr.com
Originally posted by seacoast [ How about a monthly picture of a student, Elementary, Middle or High School aged in the side bar columns instead of another obiturary ( soon the train hobby will be going that way) OOOOOOOHhhhhhhhh soooooo true!!! I dont think I would have put it quite that way, because we do owe homage to those that have shaped the hobby so far, but I do agree with the thought! My sons are fledgling hobbiests, and I try to point out stuff in MR that might interest them, but they view MR as an "old man's" magazine. Nothing really reaches out to them past the layout photos. Then I think back to when I was thier ages (@1973). I remember student fare fondly. It's one thing for a 14 year old to look at something that an adult did, and say wow, but it's quite another to look at something one of thier peers did and say WOW! While were at it, how about bringing Paint Shop back! Reply Edit Hawks05 Member sinceOctober 2003 From: Southern Minnesota now 956 posts Posted by Hawks05 on Saturday, November 29, 2003 10:19 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan QUOTE: Originally posted by skibbs4 Why bring back Student Fare when the whole magazine is devoted to beginners now? If MR went back to publishing the best of the best and stopped dumbing down their content in an attempt to gain readership, then there would be more of a need for Student Fare type content. Right now, all the articles are shorter, less detail is given, articles are of a more basic nature, and in an attempt to make all articles as widespread as possible, everything feels washed out. I think MR needs to rekindle some WOW factor, and show everyone some amazing modeling so that we can dream about being better modelers and then work to become better modelers. Give us something to strive for. Mike Skibbe www.cgwrr.com Now this is funny. "Devoted to beginners" now? Not according to people posting on the "Best Magazine" thread; they're complaining that it's ALL "wow" factor and no basic how-to. Amazing how perceptions can differ, ain't it? i have 2 MR magazines and so far from the 2 i've learned 1 thing. well i haven't read it but i know i will later. its about weathering. other wise the rest i don't need. its all wow factor to me since i'm beginning. i'd like to see a student section for sure. that would be nice. get to see what people my age are doing instead of people twice my age who are more experienced and have been in the hobby for 20-30+ years. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 29, 2003 10:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan Now this is funny. "Devoted to beginners" now? Not according to people posting on the "Best Magazine" thread; they're complaining that it's ALL "wow" factor and no basic how-to. Amazing how perceptions can differ, ain't it? Hmm... maybe I should explain my perspective. I've read about 98% of the MR's ever published, so my views arn't based on the last ten years worth of magazines or anything. Given that, I like to look for articles that push people towards realism in their modeling. Take a recent article by Tony Thompson about moving the trucks on a CB&Q caboose farther inward in order to run the car on tighter curves. How much inspiration is there when the head editor is taking a nice prototypical Walther's caboose, and making it unprototypical by moving the trucks inward and cutting corresponding details off the side sill of the caboose? MR used to be about converting 3-rail toys into 2-rail models, about adding details and bashing readily available models into better representations of real life, about creating real life in miniature. Now they are including articles about moving backwards when the market supplys better models to start with? What's the deal? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 30, 2003 7:40 PM Student fare was read by both students and adults no longer students. It is probably the most requested piece to be returned to MR. Reply Edit pwkrueger Member sinceDecember 2001 28 posts Posted by pwkrueger on Sunday, November 30, 2003 8:35 PM I enjoyed Student Fare, but I hope it doesn't get resurrected in the magazine again. A moderated forum on the MR web site would be a better venue for that type of thing. The "I'm a 14-year old living in Peoria, IL who models BNSF - how do I keep my track clean?" sort of thing is made for this media. Rather than wait 8-16 weeks to see his letter in the magazine and get one response to his question, the 14-year old from Peoria can connect a dozen other modelers who model BNSF or have ideas on track cleaning within a couple of hours. I'd rather see the young author contest be made a regular occurance or have a regular column that features models or techniques of a young model railroader. Maybe there could be modeling contests - build DPM kit #??? using these rules and send us a photo by two months from now . Manufacturers could get involved, perhaps sponsoring the contest, offering prizes for the winners or coupons for every contest entry. Anyway, I guess my point is that a young modelers column in MR should focus on model building instead of letter writing. That's my two-cents. Paul Krueger Seattle, WA Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 30, 2003 8:44 PM It seems Paint Shop and Student Fair are the two most often requested former regular columns to be returned to the pages of MR. I stopped buying MR on a monthly basis about a decade ago. Since then, I've bought the occasional article here or there when a set of plans or (amazing as this might sound) when an article struck my interest. Otherwise, I feel MR has become a sort of "Reader's Digest" train oriented magazine. The articles are all pretty much written in the same writing style, are about the same length word/paragraph count-wise and don't vary much month to month. What happened to the variety you could get in the 80's? An Art Current kitbashing article, a Malcolm Furlow scenery article, some electronics project, a nice freight car done by Jim Hediger in Paint Shop, an interpolation of a few letters from teen modelers by Andy Anderson in Student Fair, a beefy Bull Session column towards the rear of the magazine, Club News and so much more I may be overlooking? I randomly picked out a recent copy of MR in a stack by my PC here and the layout feature was about a layout the owner had built for him - it's not his work but rather the work of a professional layout builder, no wonder I skipped that article the first time around. More variety is what MR needs. Reply Edit Hawks05 Member sinceOctober 2003 From: Southern Minnesota now 956 posts Posted by Hawks05 on Sunday, November 30, 2003 9:22 PM that would be cool have a contest for teens to build stuff. i'd gladly do that as i want to start building kits since they are cheaper to get than RTR pieces. it could test our modeling skills and help us learn. send out coupons or something for say $.50 off something from a company sponsoring the contest. that would be cool. or even a photo contest say teens send in photos of their layouts. i'd be interested in stuff like that. especially the build a kit thing. that would be cool. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 30, 2003 9:24 PM I voted a BIG YES! I feel a page in the magazine wouldn't be that big of deal but I'm not a publisher so I could be wrong. I loved student fare, it was awesome. Now, I do feel some what insulted by the idea that student fare would be "basic" or "dumb down". I know some of us are new and need to learn but some of us have been doing this longer than some adults and have sharpened our skills. I do a proto freelance ACL in modern. Due to necessity I have been forced to learn how to air brush and have gotten pretty good at it. I know that might not be saying a lot but I do feel that airbrushing, decaling, and detailing your locos is more advanced than what some of you think we are capable of. I know I still have a lot to learn and I'm learning from 3 of the best model railroaders (to me) Bob Harpe, Nate Stone, and Jack Armstrong. All are award winning modelers (by the NMRA) and they can vouch that the young guns have some talent that needs to be recognized. I feel too often in Model Railroader it focuses on the adults. I'm sure there are young modelers you can teach the adults a thing or two. Just my thoughts... Jason Castine PS-If the ACL guy sees this, please email me, I’d like to talk to you. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:07 PM They need to bring it back. Youths would write to Willard Anderson telling them how pleased they were that they just assembled their Athearn boxcar, and he would write back words of encouragement and advice. That's what it was all about. The kids want someone who will listen to them, react favorably to their enthusiasm, and encourage them to go one. Rick Selby tried hard but couldnt do it. The letters he selected were off-topic and too broad. Basically, there needs to be a forum where kids can interact with the MR staff and get encouragement. I used to read Student Fare all the time. I even got a couple of letters in! The editor at MR at the time told me that students are just like everyone else and need to be integrated into the hobby as peers and equals- that was their reason for getting rid of the column then. Bring it back. And stop dumbing-down the content of the rest of the magazine. Reply Edit Hawks05 Member sinceOctober 2003 From: Southern Minnesota now 956 posts Posted by Hawks05 on Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:21 PM students are just like everyone else? what the heck. students are like the 30 year veterans of the hobby. we have a lot to learn before you can even call us equal to any of them. peers yes but not equals thas Bull. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:27 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by omv6369 [Bring it back. And stop dumbing-down the content of the rest of the magazine. That and a few more articles, i swear the thing is 140 pages of ads and 10 pages of content now. Jay. Reply Edit walthuston Member sinceSeptember 2002 60 posts Posted by walthuston on Monday, December 1, 2003 12:03 PM This is one way to get and keep youth in the hobby. Another way is for clubs/groups to invite youth to their meetings/shows. Walt Huston President Aberdeen, Tacoma & Spanaway Forrest Railroad Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 1, 2003 3:09 PM I feel that this subject heading should be reinstated into the magazine. I feel the more information included in the magaine the better it will be. They should start catering more towards the younger generation, they are the future. Gregg Staley Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 1, 2003 3:30 PM What is the student fare? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 1, 2003 4:09 PM Bringing back Student Fare will not help bring beginners into the hobby. First of all, beginners would have to know the magazine exists, and many of them do not. I work at a hobby shop (part time) and a Jo-Ann's (Full Time). There are 2 people at JoAnns who are beginners, who are totally clueless, and come to me (of all people) for guidance. I, in turn (and with no compensation; LOL) turn them towards Model Railroader, but not without 1600 additional comments. You see, bringing back a small two or three page (once all the ads are smashed into the page) is not going to bring new people into the hobby. You need people who are basically ambassadors to do nothing but go around to schools, community clubs, after-school places (YMCA, YWCA, etc...) and profess the wonderful apsects of the hobby. I have many new friends because of model railroading (the internet and railfanning helped), and we all like to show off our latest and greatest. I am choosing not to vote. Bring it back if you want, but if there are no new people to cater to, then what's the point? If you want to bring new people in, Athearn could stop rasing the prices on American-made products, and they (all manufacturers, that is) could do something amazing..... Advertise in NON railroad forums..... Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 1, 2003 4:32 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by OHIC_B23-7R_4095 Bringing back Student Fare will not help bring beginners into the hobby. First of all, beginners would have to know the magazine exists, and many of them do not. I work at a hobby shop (part time) and a Jo-Ann's (Full Time). There are 2 people at JoAnns who are beginners, who are totally clueless, and come to me (of all people) for guidance. I, in turn (and with no compensation; LOL) turn them towards Model Railroader, but not without 1600 additional comments. You see, bringing back a small two or three page (once all the ads are smashed into the page) is not going to bring new people into the hobby. You need people who are basically ambassadors to do nothing but go around to schools, community clubs, after-school places (YMCA, YWCA, etc...) and profess the wonderful apsects of the hobby. I have many new friends because of model railroading (the internet and railfanning helped), and we all like to show off our latest and greatest. I am choosing not to vote. Bring it back if you want, but if there are no new people to cater to, then what's the point? If you want to bring new people in, Athearn could stop rasing the prices on American-made products, and they (all manufacturers, that is) could do something amazing..... Advertise in NON railroad forums..... Yes and no. How about those who do come across Model Railroader? If they see lots of huge kitbashing/scratch building projects and massive 30' x 40' layouts with expensive brass equipment runnign on it, it will, chances, are, intimidate them. Student Fare gave a place for the younger crowd in Model Railroader, a place where they felt welcomed without being intimidated by some of these prototype/detail freaks. So yes, I feel Student Fare should come back. Another thing Kalmbach could do (HINT HINT) is start a forum for teens, mainly for them to get help, but also for discussion of general railroad interest. Anyways, time for me to step down off of the soapbox. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 1, 2003 5:00 PM I voted a yes to Return Student Fare. When it was closed it was the first time I ever remember being absolutly pissed with the Magazine and almost let my subscription run out. I also dearly miss the Paint Shop. That was where I generated about 2/3s of my modeling ideas. I agree that while stuent fare might not directly contribute to recruiting younger members to the hobby, it will (did) give them a place to show what they have accomplished and make them feel like they are a welcome and valued member of the model railroad hobby. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 1, 2003 5:17 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Grayhound Challenger I voted a yes to Return Student Fare. When it was closed it was the first time I ever remember being absolutly pissed with the Magazine and almost let my subscription run out. I also dearly miss the Paint Shop. That was where I generated about 2/3s of my modeling ideas. I agree that while stuent fare might not directly contribute to recruiting younger members to the hobby, it will (did) give them a place to show what they have accomplished and make them feel like they are a welcome and valued member of the model railroad hobby. Exactly. (I didn't even notice Paint Shop was gone! :'-( ) Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 1, 2003 9:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Grayhound Challenger I voted a yes to Return Student Fare. When it was closed it was the first time I ever remember being absolutly pissed with the Magazine and almost let my subscription run out. I also dearly miss the Paint Shop. That was where I generated about 2/3s of my modeling ideas. I agree that while stuent fare might not directly contribute to recruiting younger members to the hobby, it will (did) give them a place to show what they have accomplished and make them feel like they are a welcome and valued member of the model railroad hobby. I completely agree, Teens need a a place to "make them feel thy are a welcome and valued member". This true of any activity, they need to feel as if they belong. This space devoted to teens encourages them to take an active role, rather than stand back and watch the rest of us. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 1, 2003 10:20 PM Nick, MR needs to give you a job promoting their forum. Just look at the number of former lurkers who came out to make a first or second post for "Student Fare"! JJ Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 2, 2003 2:53 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by TiVoPrince Nick, MR needs to give you a job promoting their forum. Just look at the number of former lurkers who came out to make a first or second post for "Student Fare"! JJ He's right, Nick. You can take that good old skill displayed with TAMR and actually get paid for it! Reply Edit BRAKIE Member sinceOctober 2001 From: OH 17,574 posts Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, December 2, 2003 4:32 PM I think student fare would be more wasted space and not in the best interest of improving the magazine.I mean all you will have is this,see my layout, see my SD40-2,see my what ever and no real modeling information..More like a show and tell at the local high school like it was before... Larry Conductor. Summerset Ry. "Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!" Reply CBQ_Guy Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: North Central Illinois 1,458 posts Posted by CBQ_Guy on Tuesday, December 2, 2003 6:34 PM To be fair, and to Kalmbach's credit, I recently discovered they are sponsoring the Teen Association of Model Railroaders (TAMR) web page at http://tamr.org/ Thanks MR, I belonged to this group for a short time over 30 years ago. I was wondering if they still existed. "Paul [Kossart] - The CB&Q Guy" [In Illinois] ~ Modeling the CB&Q and its fictional 'Illiniwek River-Subdivision-Branch Line' in the 1960's. ~ Reply 123 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan QUOTE: Originally posted by skibbs4 Why bring back Student Fare when the whole magazine is devoted to beginners now? If MR went back to publishing the best of the best and stopped dumbing down their content in an attempt to gain readership, then there would be more of a need for Student Fare type content. Right now, all the articles are shorter, less detail is given, articles are of a more basic nature, and in an attempt to make all articles as widespread as possible, everything feels washed out. I think MR needs to rekindle some WOW factor, and show everyone some amazing modeling so that we can dream about being better modelers and then work to become better modelers. Give us something to strive for. Mike Skibbe www.cgwrr.com Now this is funny. "Devoted to beginners" now? Not according to people posting on the "Best Magazine" thread; they're complaining that it's ALL "wow" factor and no basic how-to. Amazing how perceptions can differ, ain't it?
QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan Now this is funny. "Devoted to beginners" now? Not according to people posting on the "Best Magazine" thread; they're complaining that it's ALL "wow" factor and no basic how-to. Amazing how perceptions can differ, ain't it?
QUOTE: Originally posted by omv6369 [Bring it back. And stop dumbing-down the content of the rest of the magazine.
QUOTE: Originally posted by OHIC_B23-7R_4095 Bringing back Student Fare will not help bring beginners into the hobby. First of all, beginners would have to know the magazine exists, and many of them do not. I work at a hobby shop (part time) and a Jo-Ann's (Full Time). There are 2 people at JoAnns who are beginners, who are totally clueless, and come to me (of all people) for guidance. I, in turn (and with no compensation; LOL) turn them towards Model Railroader, but not without 1600 additional comments. You see, bringing back a small two or three page (once all the ads are smashed into the page) is not going to bring new people into the hobby. You need people who are basically ambassadors to do nothing but go around to schools, community clubs, after-school places (YMCA, YWCA, etc...) and profess the wonderful apsects of the hobby. I have many new friends because of model railroading (the internet and railfanning helped), and we all like to show off our latest and greatest. I am choosing not to vote. Bring it back if you want, but if there are no new people to cater to, then what's the point? If you want to bring new people in, Athearn could stop rasing the prices on American-made products, and they (all manufacturers, that is) could do something amazing..... Advertise in NON railroad forums.....
QUOTE: Originally posted by Grayhound Challenger I voted a yes to Return Student Fare. When it was closed it was the first time I ever remember being absolutly pissed with the Magazine and almost let my subscription run out. I also dearly miss the Paint Shop. That was where I generated about 2/3s of my modeling ideas. I agree that while stuent fare might not directly contribute to recruiting younger members to the hobby, it will (did) give them a place to show what they have accomplished and make them feel like they are a welcome and valued member of the model railroad hobby.
QUOTE: Originally posted by TiVoPrince Nick, MR needs to give you a job promoting their forum. Just look at the number of former lurkers who came out to make a first or second post for "Student Fare"! JJ
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"