Furlow-bashing

[CNJ831]

I've got to admit that a number of respondents to this topic have given me a real belly-laugh, and I mean this in the literal sense! This is particularly true of those who first espouse that everyone should be allowed to enjoy the hobby as they please and that they would defend absolutely any aberation of style. But in the very same breath these folks vehemently condem and ridicule those who enjoy being serious modelers! Obviously, their version of tolerance diviates widely from the accepted norm.

Anyone who cares to re-read my original post will see that I criticized MR for, in my opinion, wasting space on an article such as Furlow's, which I considered down right silly. I note that garden railroad articles, which were rendered closer to reality than Furlow's efforts, have been even more severely criticized in recent forums. I did not condem Furlow but indicated that his layout article offered nothing in the way of information of use to any serious modeler. I still contend this and my opinion - and it's just that - was held by a great many posters on this and other forums when it first appeared. In fact, the version appearing in, I think, the Narrow Guage Gazette drew extreme fire from at least 75% of posters who subscribed to that magazine, in spite of what vsmith insists was published in the pages of that magazine's correspondance column. Many threatened not to renew if similar material was published!

Finally, to those who revile clubs of "serious" modelers, by all means stay away and leave us alone, as we are very much enjoying our close-knit fellowship and the many other aspects of the hobby in our own way. Thanks!

CNJ831

[IRONROOSTER]

Hmmm a "dungeons & dragons layouts". Now that sounds interesting. Has anyone built one?, published pics?
Enjoy
Paul

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Johnnydash9

HOLY *** BATMAN....

First id like to point out that i dont read MR...i read RMC when i feel like buying it...so i never saw the article in question and i havnt the foggiest idea who Furlow is...what i would like to point out is this...

If the man is having fun...great...leave him alone...he had his crap published...i have had crap published...there are TONS of other people on this site that have had their crap published...WOO HOO. I hate to remind people like CNJ....but this is a hobby. I was a member of the Western Pennsylvania Model Railroad Musem (formerly the Pittsburgh model railraod historcial society) for almost 7 years...and i finally had to leave beacouse everyone there was so serious i wanted to VOMIT on a secondly basis...i couldnt stand it anymore. And its people like CNJ that make me think of a room full of bad haired, stuck up, self richeous Republicans when i think of a model railroad club. GOD CAN I PUKE NOW????????????

Feel free to hug the porcellien at any time, I wouldnt blame ya...

[Anonymous]

HOLY *** BATMAN....

First id like to point out that i dont read MR...i read RMC when i feel like buying it...so i never saw the article in question and i havnt the foggiest idea who Furlow is...what i would like to point out is this...

If the man is having fun...great...leave him alone...he had his crap published...i have had crap published...there are TONS of other people on this site that have had their crap published...WOO HOO. I hate to remind people like CNJ....but this is a hobby. I was a member of the Western Pennsylvania Model Railroad Musem (formerly the Pittsburgh model railraod historcial society) for almost 7 years...and i finally had to leave beacouse everyone there was so serious i wanted to VOMIT on a secondly basis...i couldnt stand it anymore. And its people like CNJ that make me think of a room full of bad haired, stuck up, self richeous Republicans when i think of a model railroad club. GOD CAN I PUKE NOW????????????

[Anonymous]

I think Mr. Furlow's work is beautiful. I almost built the San Juan Central (from the book).

My problem with Mr. Furlow is his presence (or lack therof) in the hobby in the last 10 years or so.

It seems like Mr. Furlow finds something, goes crazy with it, then moves onto something else. He seemed to go from modeling southwestern railroads, then suddenly disappeared.

Then, he was (still is?) an artist - painting native american themes... selling paintings for hundreds or even thousands of dollars.

I felt like he used model railroading to further a career in something else...

Then, he just moved on.

That may not be the case, but it's sure how I feel.

I really enjoyed his work back in his MR heyday. I didn't mind the goofiness in the videos, or in his articles. I felt (and still feel) he had real talent. I felt like, but buying the books and reading the articles, I supported that... then he just disappeared.

It may sound silly, it may sound stupid, but it's just the impression I got. He used us to build a name, then moved on.

Rob

[vsmith]

It seems to the fact that it gets published at all, and that is what gets the rivit counters all bent up. Of course I would rather see a highly detailed layout like Furlow's published anytime, but thats me.

Apparently some people seem to have a hard time with the very fact that it gets published.(and they dont or cant? maybe thats part of the issue).

My question to the rivit counters is "what would you publish in its place?" an article on decal placement? Or a riviting article on dwarf signals? or the "accurately detailing of yet another generic freight car car in HO guage".

Please, if you keep looking at the trees, you'll never see the forest, or the vistas beyond.

[dharmon]

I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to "bash" Malcom Furlow. He models his way. I like his work, but it's not personally my style. But then again, neither is Proto87, rivet counters or scratch building purists who cast their own parts.....but I almost always find something that they have done to be interesting or applicable to how I model. MR seems to cover just about all aspects.....from Garden or in some cases estate railroads to Z inside a coffee table. They can't please all the people all the time, so try to get most of the people most of the time. The are forums and sources dedicated to the "serious" modeler. Unfortunately, I am not in a financial position to quit my day job and become a serous modeler. So in the meantime I model my way, just as Mr. Furlow does his way, which would probably draw fire from purists also.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MiniCG


BTW, I didn't realize the MR was a serious model railroad magazine. I don't think I would subscribe to it if it was. I love the wow factor of layouts like Furlow or Vic Smith that are in it's pages. And educate myself with it's articles at the same time.

Cindy

As a point of disclosure I need to point out that I have never been published.

I wish my train models were 1/10 as good as Furlow's. The only place I have had any exposure is on the Bachmann web page photo gallery, and that was only for a kitbashed 2-4-0 plantation loco.

[dknelson]

Wish I had Furlow's skills so i could choose either to model as he does or not. Right now it is the mootest of moot points!
Thinking in terms of railroad art, compare a Howard Fogg painting -- as detailed and accurate as a photograph -- with a Ted Rose painting, which obscured or even distorited details but concentrated on atmosphere. I think most people want their layouts to be Howard Fogg paintings. Furlow ignores reality -- including laws of gravity and physics -- but does capture a certain dreamlike atmosphere. I enjoy it but would not emulate it -- but note my first remark -- I have no choice! Can't be done! I live in a perpetual skill-free zone.
Dave Nelson

[Pruitt]

OH MAN!

I must be into model trains for all the wrong reasons! I don't approach the hooby as art. Nor do I approach it as craft. I approach it as fun. I do it because I like trains, and I like to build things.

I'm in the early construction stages of a rather large multi-deck layout based on the Burlington through the Wind River Canyon in Wyoming. Hopefully some of the scenes will be realistic enough that people from the area would recognize them. I've spent quite a bit of time studying the railroads and the local areas, and I continue to do so. I've put together a web site (www.thecbandqinwyoming.com) that deals not only with the layout, but also with the history of the rail lines, and their environs. It may look like I'm a very serious modeler, but I'm not. I do the research, I maintain the website, I'm building the layout all for the same reason: I like to do those things. It's fun.

Is it art? No. Is it a craft? No. It's a hobby. Acting like it's more than that, if you don't make your living from it, is just pompous conceit.

If Furlow wants to model a fantasy world that caracitures the southwestern part of North America, it's not my place (nor anyone else's, to my mind) to criticize. What anyone wants to do is their business, and no one else's.

So you don't want to read about it? Then skip those pages! If you have to skip too many pages too often, read a different magazine!! For those who don't like, and don't want to see, the fantasy worlds of Furlow and those like him, that's fine. If you think the magazine you read shows too much of that sort of thing, complain to the mag about their content.

But bashing ANYONE for being to "whimsical" or "not serious enough" of too "artsy" or anything else is just crap.

Let people enjoy their hooby their own way, can't ya?

[Anonymous]

Somewhere in all of that (I'm not gonna bother to actually dig out the quote) someone said that there is nothing to be learned from a Furlow article, since he models fantasy. I would beg SO MUCH to differ with this; if you find that there is truly nothing to learn from his layouts, then you have reached the stub-end of your journey through this marvelous hobby, and you better hope there's a turntable so that you can get back to the mainline. The pictures of his layouts are wonderful compositions, because he plans them that way; how many "serious" prototype modellers conceptualize their layout plan, scenery, and details so that they work together as a powerful visual composition? Isn't this a useful critical vantage point, even if one is a dedicated prototype modeler? Sure, for some the lessons to be learned (in this case visual composition) might not matter that much, because of their particular hobby interests. But I can assure you that the photos that get printed in MR are judged on their compositional quality, as well as other critieria, and so it follows that if one wants to see more "serious" model railroads published, then those layout builders better learn some of these lessons that Furlow has to teach us.

Iain Rice is one of the current contributors I can point to who has learned from Furlow, and it was the stunning photos of his shelf layout that got me to read the whole article about Proto-87 standards... even though I model in N-scale and have "nothing to learn" from it.

[Jetrock]

I do kind of wonder about that--many of the people who criticize folks' layouts for not being realistic enough or for having the wrong number of rivets on the side of a boiler are people WHO DO NOT HAVE LAYOUTS. The best thing to ask someone who criticizes one's layout is "Well, what do you do on *yours*? This often shuts them up because it becomes pretty plain that they don't have one--and their plaintive cries of "well, if I *DID* have a layout, I wouldn't do XYZ" become a lot easier to tune out.

John Allen did include some whimsical stuff--an infinitely large two-car garage, a dinosaur switcher, etcetera--but he was first and foremost a skilled modeler, a stickler for detail in construction, scenery, operation and planning of model railroads. If someone has a railroad that can hold a candle to the G&D I certainly won't mind if they have a little fun.

I like Furlow's stuff just fine. There are far more important things to argue about...

my favorite non-PC quote:
"Arguing on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard."

[BRAKIE]

Frankly I think Furlow thinks outside of the box and enjoys the hobby his way..I see nothing wrong with that....

[brothaslide]

At least Malcom's has a layout. I wish I had his talent, money, and time to complete such a great layout.

I think we should be more worried about being good husbands, fathers, friends, and responsible members of our communities.

Sean

[fec153]

Hey Mal, as Harley riders say- If I have to explain it-You'll never understand.
Enjoyment of Gods gifts is what life is about. Thankyou for sharing your talents.

[Rene Luethi]

I like Malcolm Furlow's work, and I try to apply his ideas in my own layout. But for this time, what I have seen in the coverage of the “Mexican Hat Canyon “ (MR), I think lesser would be more.
Rene.

[Anonymous]

I find it so interesting how Furlow's work can divide a room. His work is amazing to my husband and myself, and it has sparked alot of creativity in us for our first layout.

We are new in this hobby, and our layout will be totally freelanced, and with trains that we both like. And I doubt that my husbands Heisler and my Santa Fe Superchief were ever near each other in real life. But they will be on our layout. So what. This hobby, I thought, is suppose to be fun and creative. We are not knowledgable enough to build or run a true prototypical layout. And according to a recent MR poll, only 10 percent do that. While 40 percent do totally freelance, and 50 percent a little of both. Would we like to learn to run prototypical? Of course. But right now we are just getting our feet wet. And the stuff that we need to know before we build our first HO layout is a bit overwhelming. Wiring, DCC, decoders, track laying, workbench building and other stuff. We just want to see our trains run in our little utopia. From there, we will see how much further we will go. We are doing this to have fun and get our creative juices going.

BTW, I didn't realize the MR was a serious model railroad magazine. I don't think I would subscribe to it if it was. I love the wow factor of layouts like Furlow or Vic Smith that are in it's pages. And educate myself with it's articles at the same time.

No, I don't see "smurf engineers" on store shelves. But I have seen Thomas the Tank. So that means to me that this hobby is for everyone.

Well that was my .02 cents.

Cindy

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

I honestly don't think most of Furlow's critics, including myself, give a darn about his actual style of modeling. If he enjoys it, well, that's fine with the rest of us and the way it should be. What I think is found objectionable by a great many is the fact that his material wastes a mulitude of pages in an otherwise serious modelling magazine that the consumer is paying good money for. Other than the pictures' ooh-aah value, there is little of worth to be gleaned from his latest article.

Whimsical, bizarre, dungeons & dragons layouts may have been more common and to some extent popular 30-50 years ago. But it is neither the norm or readily accepted by most model railroaders today. This feeling has absolutely nothing to do with envy or jealousy of Furlow's work. If fanciful layouts were truly a popular modeling venue then we would not see superdetailed, high-end, RTR locomotives and rolling stock dominating hobby shop shelves (do you see any current locomotives offered with Smurf engineers?).

While many whimsical layouts appeared in the pages of MR long years ago, Furlow is virtually alone today in modeling in this fashion for mainstream publications today, outside of in publications like A.W.N.U.T.S. And for those who contend that Furlow's work is high, expressive art, I would reply that MR is not a publication aimed at artists and art critics, it's about realistically modeling railroads in miniature.

CNJ831

Give me a $%#&@ break, it takes PAGES away from SERIOUS model railroads?????? You've been at the Atlas forum for too long...[:(!]

Oh for PETE'S SAKE you obviuosly HAVENT REALLY LOOKED AT THIS LAYOUT!!!! It is far better detailed and envisioned that 99.9% of the SERIOUS layouts that have been published recently. This was published also in Narrow gauge and Short Line Gazette and praise was all that i read in the letters that were published afterwords. And THAT is a magazine devoted to outstanding serious modelers. [;)]

It is the dismissive, wrong headed attitude towards anything OUTSIDE of your own universe thats got me ticked off! SO $%#^& WHAT if its SLIGHTLY whimsicle, it has better viniettes, better detailed engines and rolling stock, better sceneries and buildings that anything recently published. Most of the SERIOUS layout lately have been BORING and STAGNANT. Is that what your advocating?? No wonder I dont belong to a club or organization, it was that thick headed rivit counting attitude that burned me out of this hobby for a long time and now that I'm back into it, I'm NOT GOING TAKING IT SITTING DOWN ANYMORE. So you'll have to put up with my alligator mouth rants from now on[}:)]

How do you expect to get new-comers interested in this hobby with a NO, YOU HAVE TO BE SO SERIOUS LIKE US AND NO TOLERANCE WILL BE GIVEN TO ANYONE WHO THINKS OUTSIDE OUR SMALL RIDIG BOX attitude?. Furlow's return to the hobby is the best thing that could happen to it. Creativity is VITAL to the survival of this hobby, you stiffle it out and theres going to be no future in it. This layout is only 1/4 complete and I hope to heaven he makes the rest with the same WIT that he rattles ALL of the stiff rivit counters out there and maybe just maybe, you'll see the forest thru the trees and realize he is doing EXACTLY the same as everyone else only a 100 times better, and that he invigorates the hobby by saying "Hey, it OK to be creative". People pick up the magazine and say "WOW, I didnt know you could do this with model trains" and maybe they get encouragement to pick up the hobby or if there in it to try something new. If your only running RTR thats fine but to bash someone because they are creative and aa magazine thinks it amazing enough to be promonently published, then I think the problem isnt the magazine, but that perhaps you've become too rigid in your viewpoints to see that there is a demand for this kind of coverage. You mentioned "other" forums, which ones, If your refering to the Atlas forum forget admitting it, I avoid that hole like the plague. to me its the domain of the NMRA, National Meanspirited Rivitcounters Association that is, and I want nothing to do with those types anymore [:D]

As for Furlow being alone? I'm doing the same thing, so are alot of others on this forum, I'm even in the same scale and have to kitbash almost everything I have because of a lack of selection in large scale (maybe thats why Furlow kitbashed all his trains?). The pages of Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazzette are full of freelanced and semi-freelanced layouts. How come so many praise his work? is it that maybe there are more of us that enjoy a good freelance layout and are open minded enough to admit it? MR being for"realistic model railroads in miniatures"? lets see, it has trains, it has track and its in miniature and those details sure look realistic to me! I dont see any "dragons" in it either. MR NOT for artists? WHAT DO YOU CALL WHAT YOUR DOING THEN? I take it you DONT use a brush or airbrush, or imagination, or creativity, as those are all aspects of "artistry". [xx(]

If MR only published SERIOUS (dull,repetitious, stagnant,boring) layouts I for one would never buy it. I dont buy Model Railroad Craftsman because its so damn dull. It hasnt changed or grown in 30 years, (yes, Ive been around the hobby for THAT long). They published Joe Crea's narrow gauge Pitkin Tram and thru unimaginative presentation sapped the life out of it. This layout was also covered in the Gazette and in Garden RR magazine and both did a superior job of presenting this unique, freelance line. It was one of the reasons I got back into the hobby, as it shown a great deal of craftsmanship interpreted thru a open minded willingness to be creative about the layout and presentation. Just as Furlow has done with his Mexican Hat Canyon layout. So Hurrah for Malcomn, and BOOO to the rivit counters who want to drive creativity out of the hobby.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND PLEASE LOOK AT IT WITH AN OPEN MIND
I say this for your own good, just because you dont like MR covering this layout doesnt mean the rest of us agree with your view. I hope that MR publishes every scrap of info they can get on it, including "how-to's" authored by Furlow. He is VERY GOOD for this hobby. If you dont like it covered in MR or its not "serious" enough for you, I'm sure MRC has a lot of back copies readily avalible[V]

The Old-Alligator-Mouth is back and doesnt like it when someone takes his raw chicken away!![}:)]

[Catt]

Serious?? If I want serious I'll stay at work.This is a hobby.Why don't you try looking at the modeling involved in Furlow's modeling.

As I said this is a hobby enjoy it anyway you like .just don't tell anyone else to take it seriously.That is their choice.

[CNJ831]

I honestly don't think most of Furlow's critics, including myself, give a darn about his actual style of modeling. If he enjoys it, well, that's fine with the rest of us and the way it should be. What I think is found objectionable by a great many is the fact that his material wastes a mulitude of pages in an otherwise serious modelling magazine that the consumer is paying good money for. Other than the pictures' ooh-aah value, there is little of worth to be gleaned from his latest article.

Whimsical, bizarre, dungeons & dragons layouts may have been more common and to some extent popular 30-50 years ago. But it is neither the norm or readily accepted by most model railroaders today. This feeling has absolutely nothing to do with envy or jealousy of Furlow's work. If fanciful layouts were truly a popular modeling venue then we would not see superdetailed, high-end, RTR locomotives and rolling stock dominating hobby shop shelves (do you see any current locomotives offered with Smurf engineers?).

While many whimsical layouts appeared in the pages of MR long years ago, Furlow is virtually alone today in modeling in this fashion for mainstream publications today, outside of in publications like A.W.N.U.T.S. And for those who contend that Furlow's work is high, expressive art, I would reply that MR is not a publication aimed at artists and art critics, it's about realistically modeling railroads in miniature.

CNJ831

[fec153]

I run the D&P R..R..The Dismal & Pathetic. Idont want any mothers child bashing my
lack of roadbed,ballast or scenery. My trains run,turnouts turn and switches switch.
I envy,admire,and would give a good leg if I could be 1tenth as good as Mr.Furlow.
His layouts are to be admired and saved for what they are.
Being older than Mal, all I can say is, Mal, do what you want. As long as you like it,
if it works for you,DO IT. I wish you Joy and Health.

[Anonymous]

Furlow-bashing is a strong sign that there is envy present.
Maybe intolerance of someone else's modeling philosophy, too.

Most of us would not want a Furlow-basher type visiting our own layouts...there would be no reason to invite their particular brand of "criticism".

I enjoy the good-natured criticism / sarcasm that round-robin layout friends generally develop. This is humor....and fun.[:p]
Model Rairoading is fun....Furlow is particularly good at the creative, or even the satirical & whimsical side of it, as was John Allen.[;)]

John had his detractors too.[xx(] Humbug to all of them !

Furlow's stuff has always impressed me...the overall "look" is so interesting...most detractors could only dream of being able to convey a modeling message to his level.
regards
Mike

[Anonymous]

i have many old MR copies (80's). They were bashing him even then.

[bruce22]

the real world is tough , in our world of model rr i would suggest to some of u to lighten up!

[vw-bug]

I agree. Malcom has way with modeling that most of us try to aspire to. It is an impossibility to most a true to scale prototype rr. But we all for some reason or another believe that is what we should be trying to obtain. Malcom has found a way to bring the feeling and life of the RR into his models. He captures feelings, social and physical settings, politics in mis displays. It is hard to say that he is not an Artist in the truest sense of the word. Being only 25 I hope that someday that people can say that about me someday. Hopefully one day I'll get to me Malcom Furlow. But until then we had better make sure his work is well recorded for generations to look back see how greatest is done in Model railroading

[Anonymous]

Furlow does railroading the way I like to see it done: bold, visionary, uninhibited. I know the scenes he models end up being a bit impossible, but WOW look at just how much I do not care. He seems to have as his focus an attempt to capture the raw wonderment and thrill that we all got the first time we saw a train come rumbling round the bend. Remember being a kid, and having a simple love for trains? Furlow clearly does.

Very few of us approach our hobby as art; we approach it as craft. Those that nitpick his creations are thinking along craftsman lines, and they really don't understand what art is all about. Art produces subjective response. When you look at it, you can't help but have a reaction, be it emotional, instinctive, cognitive, or whatever. Many modern artists go for shock value by challenging social norms, but this is really the easiest (and lowest) form of art (I'm thinking of the likes of photos of urine in jars, that kind of thing). Worthwhile art seeks a resonance with a cultural condition, to harmonize or amplify the emotional state of the viewer.

Furlow as a model railroader is working in a medium where he knows what the viewer (i.e. railroad enthusiasts) esteems, and he builds his scenes to draw out our passion. Some of us, who criticize his work, are probably doing so because we have over-sophisticated ourselves, to the point that we can no longer enjoy trains at that basic, wide-eyed kid level. If this is true, then I pity the critics. Sure, I strive to keep improving my skills and upgrading my fleet, achieving ever higher standards and definining in very specific terms what my hobby interests are, but I will always enjoy a non-prototypical flight of fantasy led by Malcolm Furlow.

[FJ and G]

Apologies if this topic has been brought up before.

Wow. Either you love his work or you hate it; so it seems.

I happen to love it and was amazed at some of the derogatory comments I heard (not directed at him but at his latest Mexican/SW theme featured in recent MR) on another forum. Also, a sampling of letters to editor in latest MR reflected this polarization.

It was obvious to me, anyway, that the artist was painting, and modeling an IMPRESSION of the scenery and culture, not modeling a 100% accurate prototype scene. The impression came thru as a great capture of the feel for that part of the country, as well as the narrow-gauge trains.

Some of his techniques, btw, are rather interesting. The backdrop painting, for example, with bold brush strokes, the figures--which appear to be modeled out of clay; some fine weathering techniques; and great use of vertical space.

Not since John Allan have I been so inspired.

While I enjoy nearly every layout featured in MR, Furlow's unique talents add some salsa and vive to the mix.

Keep up the good work, MR, and don't let Malcolm go back into extended retirement again!