Furlow-bashing

[Anonymous]

Years ago, when I was in college, my art major girlfriend got me into the Art Metals (Jewelry) class. When the professor was critiquing my work at the end of the semester, he told me that I was an excellent craftsman but a poor artist (I got a B because I wasn't an art major).

When I look at my layout, I know I haven't improved. I'm still a decent craftsman but no artist. Therefore, I envy Malcolm Furlow, because he's both a good craftsman and an outstanding artist.

Most of the articles in MR and RMC are on things I don't model and will never model. However, I read these articles and, especially, look at the pictures because there's always something I can get out of them, if only admiration. Furlow's lastest layout is something I'd never imitate, but I can admire it greatly!

[jfugate]

After nearly 40 years in the hobby, I find I get good ideas from just about everyone's work, even if it doen't happen to fit my approach to the hobby.

And like many who have posted to this topic, I applaud anyone who's graduated beyond the armchair stage into actually building something!

[hd8091]

lighten up guys this is a hobby and i admire anyone who gets off his but and attempts to do something creative instead of watching tv on the couch. i love Malcoms work for its humor,fine modeling and attention to detail. i only wish i was half as good.while i may nevere copy his work it has been an inpsiration to me in mine ; just looking at the pictures opens new ideas for me to use on my layout. for this i find his work and the work of everyother modler worthy of praise..at least they are doing something

[Anonymous]

ROFLMAO @ Andre

Yeah, that might work.

[andrechapelon]

Well, there is a cure for all the Furlow-bashing that;'s been going around. We gotta form a group and convince one of the manufacturers to come out with a prototypically accurate model of ol' Malcolm.

Maybe Broadway-Limited. Then we coul d have sound.

Andre (ducking and covering)

[Anonymous]

While one can argue all day (many have) about Furlow's vision, I think that another purpose of MR and other magazines is to inspire us to go build models. I would suggest that it is not the lack of information that keeps layouts from progressing, but the lack if motivation/inspiration. If seeing Furlow's work in a magazine causes people to go out and work on their railroad, for whatever reason, I think that is as valid as articles such as "prototype Cars from the......"

My two cents,

Guy

[Anonymous]

CP5415: It's not the modelling, it's the pages devoted to it. Furlow is skillful, but IMHO they could have put the article in half the space and devoted the rest to other, more informative content. Now if they'd put a two-parter in the issue, with 2-3 pages on the layout and the rest on one of his kitbashes (Including instructions) like they used to do with cover articles some of the time, I wouldn't be annoyed with the number of pages devoted to Furlow.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I don"t care for Furlow"s style of modeling, I"m not criticizing the man, I just am not interested in the narrow guage, diminutive, worn out looking style of models that he builds, He has talent, for shure, I just happen to like the modern equipement style of modeling, again not being critical of Mr. Furlow, to each his own, but no narrow guage for me.


Mac

[CP5415]

Wow, if people are critizising other people for wanting to build a MODEL railroad in the way he/she see's fit then all the fun has been washed away from the hobby then in my opinion..
Give it up people, not everyone is interested in modeling everything exactly the way it is on real life.
I'm not!

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

[Anonymous]

GREG/SWchief:

Did you enjoy the article on signaling (SP) that was in that issue. It amazed me that MR called it high tech signal system, gave it one page, and then later did an articel by Bruce Chubb on singaling made simple and took three or four issues to tell me how simple it was.

I work (?) on the high tech signaling layout and it is not high tech - it is simple.

Have a blessed day and remember SANTA FE ALL THE WAY

Bob

[Anonymous]

The timing of this post's re-surfacing is uncanny - I just picked up that issue two days ago for a buc. I buy MR almost regularly, but when that isuue came out last fall I didn't think it had enough in it to interest me, including Malcom's article. ...but for a buc I'll buy practically anything. LOL

Last fall I was really interested to see that article because I so very much enjoyed Malcom's modeling back in the 70's and 80's (and also liked John Olsen's articles immensely) and wanted to see what he's up to these days in modeling. For me personally, I came away disappointed with the latest offerings. I think Brothaslide hit the nail on the head - it's a right brain left brain thing. I'm not criticising Malcom and I don't deny his abilities and his artistic talents. It's not even a rivet counting thing, because if you saw my modeling and knew my tastes, you'd call me almost anything but a rivet counter or super detailer. LOL Besides, even the stuff that Malcom and John did back in the 70's and 80's, which I did so thoroughly enjoy, is itself pretty far from being purist stuff and used a lot of artistic license too. I guess Malcom's latest style maybe takes it even further into one side of the brain than he did before - maybe that's why it's not clicking for me now. Whatever. I'm glad MR published it because I wanted to see what's up with Malcom these days and I'm happy to see him enjoying the hobby again in the way that works best for him. I'm even glad many have enjoyed his latest offering. For me and for what ever it's worth, though, it doesn't work too well modeling interest-wise. One thing I don't really understand is some of the juvenile postings (more like attacks) that occurred in this thread last November - they were neither right brain or left brain, rather they were kind of bizarre. Others don't have to like what you like and you don't have to like what other's like. That's the beauty of this hobby. Just agree to disagree and keep it civil. Above all, remember ...Enjoy the hobby in the way that works best for you!

Greg

[krump]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Frankly I think Furlow thinks outside of the box and enjoys the hobby his way..I see nothing wrong with that....

wholeheartedly agree.
I LOVE Furlow's unique approach, and his work / passion has impressed me for years. The fact that his work has been featured in MRR and other publications several times (dozens ?), is more than I can say...
he has built model rr layouts in a variety of styles and scales - there are no limits. Can't wait to see what he comes up with next.
If Furlow now completed a realistic layout, then, simply by definition, it wouldn't be too far away from the expertise of numerous others. Reality has limits, Furlow has no boundaries on his imagination. That stated, I'd love to see what Furlow came up with now that represented a true / real railroad - I'm sure it would be fabulous also.

- there are so many exceptional modellers out there and that is what makes this hobby so fascinating. Furlow is one that I remember. (I wasn't involved in the hobby when John Allen was the "mentor" of many, however I am reading any article about Allen with great interest also.)

- exceptional modelling will always bring opinions, but I'm now curious about what percentage of the NMRA members actually ever get articles published ??? % [?]

[Anonymous]

While I have no objections to Furlow's articles from the 70's and 80's, some were brilliant, some weren't (His Watermaking method was definitely lacking), I think I can see why some, especially prototype-oriented modellers like myself, dislike the publishing of Furlow's latest layout with such a lavish spread.

It's quite simple, MR publishes less & less info as time goes by, and much of what has been cut (Paint Shop, prototype drawings in every issue, scratchbuilding articles) are the very content we want to see in MR. And with Prototype modelling becoming more & more popular, we wonder why Furlow gets a lavish spread while MR can't offer any content along the lines of RMC's excellent Essential Freight Cars series (Which boasts lots of prototype info along with some excellent instructions on building & kitbashing the cars) or RMJ's One Detail at a Time series. It seems that MR either publishes beginner articles, 'I Love Me' Layout tours or very thin 'Prototype info' articles. I know it's not all MR's fault, but the meatier articles are making it into RMC and RMJ, so they are out there.

[brothaslide]

I know this is an old subject but it dawned on my why some had problems with Marlcom Furlow's last layout. Many model railroaders have more of a mechanical/engineering mind set (including myself - I have a degree in Engineering) and this lends it self more to the building, operation, electronics side that model railroaders get into. However, Mr. Furlow is an artist and he was trying to create a peice of art with his last layout.

So. . . I guess it all comes down to the left brain vs. right brain thing.

[Anonymous]

To CNJ.

MR did us all a great service in showing us Furlows work. They showed us that there are many ways to have fun in this hobby. MR has a responsibility to cover ALL aspects of our hobby, whether you like it or not. To say it was a waste of paper and space in a magazine is not only insulting to Mr. Furlow, but to the editors of MR as well. And since MR represents the hobby, you are also insulting all of us.

[Anonymous]

Ok...this will be my last post in this subject line...and im only making one last one to see if what i was trying to do hit home...

To CNJ and all the others who criticize and nit-pick and scoff somone elses work.

CNJ...when i said all the nasty crap i said about you and other nit-pickers, when i criticized you for being anal retentive, when i said all that stuff before...How did it make you feel? Did it make you feel like somone didnt appriciate what you had to say? Did it make you feel like somone didnt appriciate YOUR modeling ideals? Did it kinda make you feel like somone was looking down on you? I hope that it did.

Everytime you (personally) or anyone else bashes somone for their modeling ideals, styles, and whatever else...that hurts... And when you SAY that your not bashing it, but the magazine for wasting space...well that kinda is bashing whats in the article if its such a waste. The whole reasoning behind why i went off the way i did was to make you feel the way your kind make others feel. Did it work? I dont know. Im usually a pretty normal and gentile person...but sometimes it takes a little "BACK AT YOU" to get people to think...and i really hope that you do think the next time you criticise somone elses work...you should criticise your own...and not others...unless invited to.

Once again im sorry if i offended anyone with my language...but im not sorry for what i said.

Johnny Dash 9

[vsmith]

To CNJ831, Thanks for clarifying your opinion clearer.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Furlow is a huge inspiration for me and after getting really ticked off yesterday after reading another topic where a fellow actually had a custom freelanced model thrown to the ground by an irate rivit counter who didnt like seeing a classic Rock Island paint job on a new Dash9. It got me to thinking that I need to cool down myself and make it a point to try to understand others view points relative to my own.

I respect your opinion but again I hold to my point. It was absolutely not a waste of space to publish it, ALL LAYOUTS OF DIFFERENT TYPES should be published. Do you know how many layouts I dont even bother to look at deeply because I've seen it already 15 times. If you dont like it just skip those pages but DO NOT DEPRIVE us fans of seeing Furlow work, Thats whats really unfair, if we only have to look at the same old same old.

I would like to know where you got you info regarding the NG&SL Gazette responces. I checked every magazine since for any negative comments, there were none. I would like to read those because I came away with a very different observation.

The Old-Alligator-Mouth

P.S. To MiniCG, I saw that layout, it was really good. Totally freelanced, so I'm sure the rivit counter were scoffing and poohing at it, but very well done. Not mine though, havent ever done normal HO, prefer narrow guage. working now in 1/2" scale. Keep'em steaming.

[Anonymous]

CNJ...thank you for pointing out my belligerency and use of foul language, it has never dawned on me that i have a mouth. As for my ability to be openminded...correct me if im wrong...but wasnt i the one who was saying just let everyone do their own thing...and if you dont like it deal???? I dont know...maybe some of my foul language misconstrued my point there somewhere. And as for logically jusdging somone elses viewpoint...i dont judge anyone elses viewpoint...i just simply state what i see...

Also...please note one thing...and this is very important....if my language offended anyone...hey im sorry. As for WHAT i said...well...i am sorry...but the things that i say come from my feelings...and i dont think there is a soul on this planet that should EVER have to apologize for their feelings...so i wont...and i never will.

As for am i a troubled individual??? Well DUH i been saying that for years...i mean come on LOL. Is my behavior unacceptable...ya know...when i read that last post...you made me think of a teacher i had...cuz you used a bunch of big words that really just made you sound like the anal retent i think you are...and well yes...if you cant already tell...you did kinda strike a nerve in me...and now im just doing this to get a rise outta ya...LOL....gee...i guess im troubled...and if it gets me reprimanded on here...im sure ill just die.

Sincerely yours....

The Nightmare

[ironhorseman]

The Wild West Masterpiece was pure art, in my opinion.

Why must we "bash" other's ideas or styles? Let's get back to kit-bashing and not feelings-bashing or model-smashing or negative opinions or name calling.

It's hard to weed through the real hard-core modeling topics from the politics of the hobby on this forum. I think we need a seperate forum for opinions and editorials. I left this MR forum over a month ago because it was getting too depressing and I come back and see same thing going on as before.

There is no one way to to model. If it's got rails, it's a model railroad not matter the scale (unless it's full scale) or the realisticness (it that a real word? realisticness? I think I meant to say realness). Anyway you look at it, to each his own. The right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness and if a wild west layout or a dash-9 loco in Rock colors is your idea of happiness then bully for you.

[Anonymous]

Bunton wrote:

QUOTE: OH MAN!

I must be into model trains for all the wrong reasons! I don't approach the hooby as art. Nor do I approach it as craft. I approach it as fun. I do it because I like trains, and I like to build things.

I am disheartened that my point has not been heard or understood.

I tried to establi***hat we all approach our hobby as either art or as craft; these are two opposing attitudes. Of course, we all delve into our hobby and spend lots of money because we find it fun. My point is that some of us have more fun treating it artistically, and others have more fun treating it as craft. I would say that someone who just likes trains and likes "to build things" has more of a "craft" attitude. One is not better than another.

Malcolm Furlow's article in MR spurs us to consider this dichotomy, and to figure out for ourselves where we lie along the spectrum. If the "artistic" layouts (and dioramas and innovative non-layouts and what-have-you) are not published in a leading magazine, then most hobbyists are never going to be challenged with the alternative. Then model railroading becomes a traditionalist play-by-the-rules affair that narrows its popular appeal. Already, I have been lamenting the fact that MR does not publish innovative or surprising articles to the degree it used to; every layout tour seems to read the same way, listing the same construction techniques, in the same overall format, etc. This may just be my sour perception, though.

My main disagreement in all of this thread is with those who claim that there is no value to publishing a Furlow article in MR. A lot of my faith in the magazine was restored when I saw that article, and I sincerely mean that. There is so much to be learned, not just from the article but also from this valuable discussion (provided one edits out the derisive remarks and alluded profanity).

It is disheartening to see that model railroaders are so unwilling to learn.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

I honestly don't think most of Furlow's critics, including myself, give a darn about his actual style of modeling. If he enjoys it, well, that's fine with the rest of us and the way it should be. What I think is found objectionable by a great many is the fact that his material wastes a mulitude of pages in an otherwise serious modelling magazine that the consumer is paying good money for. Other than the pictures' ooh-aah value, there is little of worth to be gleaned from his latest article.

Whimsical, bizarre, dungeons & dragons layouts may have been more common and to some extent popular 30-50 years ago. But it is neither the norm or readily accepted by most model railroaders today. This feeling has absolutely nothing to do with envy or jealousy of Furlow's work. If fanciful layouts were truly a popular modeling venue then we would not see superdetailed, high-end, RTR locomotives and rolling stock dominating hobby shop shelves (do you see any current locomotives offered with Smurf engineers?).

While many whimsical layouts appeared in the pages of MR long years ago, Furlow is virtually alone today in modeling in this fashion for mainstream publications today, outside of in publications like A.W.N.U.T.S. And for those who contend that Furlow's work is high, expressive art, I would reply that MR is not a publication aimed at artists and art critics, it's about realistically modeling railroads in miniature.

CNJ831

Jeez and Casey Jones On A Crutch!![:0]

Nothing Furlow has ever done was a "waste"!. The man brought narrow gauge modeling to the forefront during a time when it was a hidden asset.! I'll "ohh and ahh" over everything he ever did or ever will do!!!

I've been in this hobby for 45+ years and I don't seem to recall "Whimsical, bizarre, dungeons & dragons layouts " being common. Back in the Dark Ages we strived for realism too. AND, we had a hell of good time trying and accomplishing it too!!

CNJ, you've obviously missed out on the fun and enjoyment of creating a model world to enjoy... seems you may be too busy just trying to mimic the real one!!!!

BTW...If you were to apologise for bashing Malcome, Maybe Santa will bring you a Thomas The Tank Engine set to brighten up your otherwise dull existance!!

[CNJ831]

Johnnydash 9 - Your belligerency and use of foul language on what is supposed to be a family form simply reveals your ignorance and inability to appreciate or logically judge anyone elses viewpoint. I trust the moderator of these pages will contact you about your totally uncalled for and unacceptible behavior here. It is clear to me that you are a very troubled individual.

CNJ831

[fec153]

Gee whiz, fellas. Calm down. Go run a train and watch it run. Have fun . Do it your
way while others do it theirs. THIS IS A HOBBY. NOT A JOB. PERFECTION IS FOR
SELLING MODELS. LET YOUR IMAGINATION RUN WILD.
The way some of you carry on is stupid.
The next time you think your perfect, try walking on water.......

[Anonymous]

oh....and speaking of lightening up...wow...i sound like im yelling dont i???? gee maybe its beacouse i am...but im trying to prove a point here...ya know...its great that your close-knit groups like to do your own thing...but your turning away others who want to learn...

If you are so close knit...and so intent on doing things your way...thats all fine and dandy. But if you want this hobby to continue as something that people will always be able to enjoy, try being a little more sensitive to those who are always learning...and yes i hate to point this out...but you are still learning...we are all still learning. And the day you think you know everything...god help you.

If you think that doing some goofy *** dungeons and dragons layout is not serious....why dont you take a long hard look at your own layout. I am willing to bet...that there are a few things on there that are un-prototypical....beacouse if i am reading you right (and if im not please feel free to correct me)...you are modeling things EXACTLY as they were...well im sorry but that is virtually impossible. It is not humanly possible to model something exactly as it was. You cannot get every tree right, every blade of grass right, or every tie in the exact position as the prototype. And if your telling me that you can and you did...well...please see the comment above...and see a surgeon about having that large object removed.

People take life way to seriously....and if i continue with what all i wanna say...this will go political and i WILL NOT DO THAT. LOL

[Anonymous]

And yet again...thank you CNJ for just making it clearer to me that you have something really large wedged in your anal cavity.

Serious modeler???? OK...lets take some time to discuss Serious Modeler...lets look at a 17 year old who is just getting into this hobby....you think he is a serious modeler? I do...he is serious, he is still learning...and may not have his crap published like some others here...but he is serious...you may find his attempts at a custom paint job not up to par...but HE IS SERIOUS...Am i serious? well...LOL...im never serious...but for all intensive purposes...yes i am a serious modeler...but i will NEVER be so serious about this hobby that its no longer fun...i will never be so serious about this hobby that it becomes stressful...and i have seen people get stressed about this hobby....NEED I REPEAT MYSELF ITS A G#D DA#M FU#KING HOBBY......HOBBY....HOBBY.....HOBBY...HOBBY....thats all...hobbies are supposed to be fun...soemthing you do in your spare time...if you take this to seriously then its not a hobby anymore...its just another part of an anal retentive life...and if that ever happens to me...thats then i drive up to New Kensington and throw myself off the Bessemer Bridge.

But again...thank you for your recent posts...beacouse your doing nothing but digging yourself in deeper and proving the point that your an anal retent that needs to LIGHTEN THE FU#K UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

I saw the "offending" article in MR, and I have to say I can't see why some people have become so incensed with it. While it's not a subject I'd choose to model, I can still appreciate the amount of time and effort that must have gone into it, and the scenery is some of the most spectacular I've ever seen. It kinda reminded me of some old photo's I've seen of the slate mines in North Wales - they ran little 0-4-0 narrow-gauge locos with tiny 4-wheel cars. A few of the lines are still operating as tourist attractions.

[CNJ831]

Since I still happened to be on-line when FJand G posted, let me answer their queries.

As to the first paragraph, the answer is, yes, absolutely. "Serious" modeling reflects the real world, it does not wildy distort it. All the aspects you mention are part of serious modeling. But there is a decided dichotomy between serious and silly.

With regard to the second paragraph, no one called Furlow's work shoddy. What he did was well exicuted but in a totally Disneyesque fashion. The layout may well reflect his flavor and style but is very distant from that of mainstream model railroading.

Finally, let me offer a piece of history for those who think Furlow is such an original thinker. From what I see of Furlow's current path in the hobby, it can be characterized as nothing more than following in the footsteps of John Olsen. John was an excellent, serious modeler in the 1980's, with a number of layout articles appearing in MR. John was clearly a realistic modeler and his work inspired many. However, at some point (before or during his stint as an MR author) he became a member of the actual Walt Disney Co., working if I recall on designing/modeling features for the Disney parks.

At least two of his layouts had Southwestern themes. The first had a very slight leaning toward the unprototypical. The second, which some posters might recall as his final example to appear in MR, was done as a Mexican narrow guage of tiny dimensions. It was purely a Disneyland ride in miniature, showing exactly the same sort of bizarre distortions in elevation, terrain, and trackplan as Furlow's does. John and Malcholm worked together on several Kalmach videos and I have to wonder just how much of an original thinker Furlow really is.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith
[
As a point of disclosure I need to point out that I have never been published.

I wish my train models were 1/10 as good as Furlow's. The only place I have had any exposure is on the Bachmann web page photo gallery, and that was only for a kitbashed 2-4-0 plantation loco.

I was referring to Victor M. Smith's urban layout in the same Sept 2003 MR issue as Furlows. Mr. Smith's layout is on page 53.

Cindy

[FJ and G]

In reply to CNJ831,

What exactly is a "serious modeler"? Exact prototype modeling perhaps? That is what most of us would strive for but unless we are modeling a 2 mile section of railroad, most of what we model are merely impressions, some better than others. Would someone who models a free lance railroad be a serious modeler, despite using a road that never existed. What about forced perspective and selective compression. Are these less than serious?

Furlow's modeling is a reflection of his impression; his style. It doesn't make him any less serious. In fact, I would argue that his layout is very serious, meaning it is well executed; consistent and coherent in flavor and style. There is nothing shoddy about his work.

In reply to others, it is the mark of a creative person to move back and forth through various endeavors. If Furlow wants to paint, ride horses, grow vegetables, or ride off into the sunset disappearing yet again from the model railroad scene, so be it.

Yet, his legacy will endure, and we can thank him and others like him for helping to inspire a new generation of model railroaders.