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Why are so many of these New England roads laking so many locos in N scale?

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Why are so many of these New England roads laking so many locos in N scale?
Posted by trainfreek92 on Sunday, January 7, 2007 8:46 PM
Hey guys Im here to complain about N scale manufactures and how little they offer in the way of New England road names. Lets see theres a good amount of New Haven, but thats about it. For B&M Atlas is coming out with GP38-2 soon but thats all the B&M they offer. Intermountain offers a F3 A and B set but thats it.. LL offers a SW8 switcher. Why not have a GP7/9 offered in any of there schemes? Why no other swicthers why no other F units?? Theres not that many freight cars for B&M offered ethier why? It would seem to me B&M would be a pretty good selling roadname no? Maine Central has 2 Gp7s offered by Atlas a RS 11, GP38 and 2 F3s offered by Intermountain. Why no switchers for MEC? Why dont they offer the green scheme  GP7/9? They have only about 10 cars on the market for MEC. BAR only has a F3, GP7 , 38  and thats it they have like 5 cars for them.....Banged Head [banghead]! They offer NO New england Central stuff at all. They do make a few Green Mountain locos but no cars.. 1 Central Vermont loco and no cars. 1 older rutland rs3 but I dont think it was ever made with knuckle couplers. No Mass Central stuff why??? I just wish the manufactures would realise the Northeast exists.. Any one else share my fellings? off SoapBox [soapbox] Tim
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Posted by pcarrell on Sunday, January 7, 2007 9:03 PM
Wait till you go find cars in those road names!  Talk about scarce!  A couple B&M, some BAR, and not much else!
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Posted by CNJ831 on Sunday, January 7, 2007 9:08 PM

Tim - You need to appreciate the fact that, except perhaps for the New Haven, the roads you cite were/are very much regional affairs, some very local and little known outside our area, with really quite small followings in the hobby. In a number of cases in the mid and far west, single very large railroads dominated the scene, often running widely known long-distance passenger service, or famous fast freights like the PFE. Because of that situation, the cross section of hobbyists interested in them is going to be many times larger than interest in NE lines.

Since in your post you do indicate that the manufacturers have, from time to time, offered some locos or rolling stock for various New England railroads, it indicates they certainly have "tested the waters" to see how well such products will sell. I suspect that they learned from their sale figures that they will not be making any killings selling such equipment as compared to say SP, UP, SF. Likewise, I think that there probably are simply more hobbyists residing in the mid west than in the northeast when it comes to a market. So, it only makes sense for manufacturers to mainly offer what they are likely to sell the most of.

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Posted by alco_fan on Sunday, January 7, 2007 9:31 PM

I think you need to take a look at this in the longer view. There are so many roadnames and so many models of diesels offered by various manufaturers today that they are not all in production at once. eBay can be your friend, if you don't want to wait for re-runs and are not willing to custom paint.

Right now there are B&M GPs, FTs, and SWs of various models and in various color schemes listed on the auction site, from Atlas and other manufacturers. And a search of completed sales shows a number more in the last few weeks, along with many freight cars.

That's just an example. Even for my obscure small western prorotypes in HO, models have occasionally been made. When I had space for a paint booth, I did my own, now I pick the occasional commercial unit up when it turns up on the auction site.

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Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, January 7, 2007 9:49 PM

 trainfreek92 wrote:
Hey guys Im here to complain about N scale manufactures and how little they offer in the way of New England road names. Lets see theres a good amount of New Haven, but thats about it. For B&M Atlas is coming out with GP38-2 soon but thats all the B&M they offer. Intermountain offers a F3 A and B set but thats it.. LL offers a SW8 switcher. Why not have a GP7/9 offered in any of there schemes? Why no other swicthers why no other F units?? Theres not that many freight cars for B&M offered ethier why? It would seem to me B&M would be a pretty good selling roadname no? Maine Central has 2 Gp7s offered by Atlas a RS 11, GP38 and 2 F3s offered by Intermountain. Why no switchers for MEC? Why dont they offer the green scheme  GP7/9? They have only about 10 cars on the market for MEC. BAR only has a F3, GP7 , 38  and thats it they have like 5 cars for them.....Banged Head [banghead]! They offer NO New england Central stuff at all. They do make a few Green Mountain locos but no cars.. 1 Central Vermont loco and no cars. 1 older rutland rs3 but I dont think it was ever made with knuckle couplers. No Mass Central stuff why??? I just wish the manufactures would realise the Northeast exists.. Any one else share my fellings? off SoapBox [soapbox] Tim

Why so eclectic in your tastes? Localize your interests and it gets easier. For someone modeling MEC in N, there's quite a bit depending on your era. Do the Rockland branch in diesel between 1950 and 1959, and basically all your needs are covered by GP-7's and an odd F-3, although some of the SW-7's and 9's did show up.

MEC Mountain Division: Until the coming of the GP-38's, it was F-3's, GP-7's and the SW-7's/SW-9's initially assigned to replace steam helpers at Bartlett. RS-11's #801 and 802 showed up on occasion, also. By the 1960's, the SW's had been reassigned and you could get by with GP-7's, F-3's and the 2 RS-11's (on occasion).

Most of MEC's RS-2's and RS-3's were used east of Bangor either on the line to Vanceboro or on the Calais Branch. How about painting an UNDEC? RS-2 #554 had a rather interesting (and easy to do) paint scheme in the later years.

As for B&M, you're forgetting the LL BL-2. As a matter of fact, there's one on eBay as we speak.

BAR is a small railroad in a lightly populated state. Even if you can't get factory painted units, ALL of the EMD models used by the BAR have been done in N scale and the "dip" blue paint job shouldn't be that hard to do. The BAR used F-3's, BL-2's, GP-7's, GP-9's, E-7's and SW-9's and those oddball switchers they got secondhand off the NH. That's it. Compare that to the diesel rosters of NYC, Pennsy, SP, Santa Fe.

In any case, you neglected to mention the Canadian Pacific and its use of RS-10's, RS-18's, FP-7's/9's.

ANdre

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by trainfreek92 on Monday, January 8, 2007 3:16 PM
I realise that these railroads have a smaller fan base even though in my opinion there paint schemes are nicer then stupid SP...... no offene to SP fans butDisapprove [V] I dont really model any real place in New England just a  mixture of New England stuff. I have a freind that can paint so I guess I could have him do stuff for me. I run some CP stuff and also hate how little is offered for them. You guys all have valid points,I just wish they were not true.....
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Posted by trainfreek92 on Monday, January 8, 2007 3:18 PM

 pcarrell wrote:
Wait till you go find cars in those road names!  Talk about scarce!  A couple B&M, some BAR, and not much else!

 

I know I have found about 5 cars for B&M. MEC at least has a little more but more could be made...

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Posted by SOU Fan on Monday, January 8, 2007 3:27 PM

 trainfreek92 wrote:
Hey guys Im here to complain about N scale manufactures and how little they offer in the way of New England road names. Lets see theres a good amount of New Haven, but thats about it. For B&M Atlas is coming out with GP38-2 soon but thats all the B&M they offer. Intermountain offers a F3 A and B set but thats it.. LL offers a SW8 switcher. Why not have a GP7/9 offered in any of there schemes? Why no other swicthers why no other F units?? Theres not that many freight cars for B&M offered ethier why? It would seem to me B&M would be a pretty good selling roadname no? Maine Central has 2 Gp7s offered by Atlas a RS 11, GP38 and 2 F3s offered by Intermountain. Why no switchers for MEC? Why dont they offer the green scheme  GP7/9? They have only about 10 cars on the market for MEC. BAR only has a F3, GP7 , 38  and thats it they have like 5 cars for them.....Banged Head [banghead]! They offer NO New england Central stuff at all. They do make a few Green Mountain locos but no cars.. 1 Central Vermont loco and no cars. 1 older rutland rs3 but I dont think it was ever made with knuckle couplers. No Mass Central stuff why??? I just wish the manufactures would realise the Northeast exists.. Any one else share my fellings? off SoapBox [soapbox] Tim

You could model SOUTHERN.  They have a good selection, for what you need. 

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Posted by trainfreek92 on Monday, January 8, 2007 3:33 PM
I still love New England RRs im not gonna abandon them lol.
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Posted by alco_fan on Monday, January 8, 2007 3:36 PM
 trainfreek92 wrote:

I know I have found about 5 cars for B&M. MEC at least has a little more but more could be made...

Did you even look at the auction site? There are more than that listed right now.

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Posted by pcarrell on Monday, January 8, 2007 4:06 PM
 alco_fan wrote:
 trainfreek92 wrote:

I know I have found about 5 cars for B&M. MEC at least has a little more but more could be made...

Did you even look at the auction site? There are more than that listed right now.

A lot of times when you get more era specific it narrows the field conciderably. 

Scott, I feel your pain.  I model central Maine in the late 20's and early 30's.  Imagine what I have to pick from!

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Posted by alco_fan on Monday, January 8, 2007 4:29 PM
 pcarrell wrote:

A lot of times when you get more era specific it narrows the field conciderably. 

Since the original poster states in his profile that he models from the late 50s to the 80s, his era is broad enough to include a lot of what's available in the resale market.

My point is just that, especially for those in N scale, you have to look beyond what's in stock today. There's been a lot sold of variety over the last few years and lots of of it keeps coming up for resale, even less-common roadnames.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, January 8, 2007 4:57 PM
This is your opportunity to learn the arts of painting and decalling.  The decal sets are commercially available, and with luck you might find a close enough match in canned spray paint.  When you're done, you will not only have learned something, but you'll have a unique model that you'll really appreciate.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by pcarrell on Monday, January 8, 2007 5:33 PM
 alco_fan wrote:
 pcarrell wrote:

A lot of times when you get more era specific it narrows the field conciderably. 

Since the original poster states in his profile that he models from the late 50s to the 80s, his era is broad enough to include a lot of what's available in the resale market.

My point is just that, especially for those in N scale, you have to look beyond what's in stock today. There's been a lot sold of variety over the last few years and lots of of it keeps coming up for resale, even less-common roadnames.

Point made!

Philip
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Posted by Bapou on Monday, January 8, 2007 5:50 PM

You'll definately get more in HO scale NEC GP38-2 by Atlas. Vermont Rail Geep 40 Atlas. Green Mountain GP40 Atlas alot of cars too (alot means at least 10 seen on ebay over the past few weeks) Oh and a Vermont Rail RS3 Atlas

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Posted by trainfreek92 on Monday, January 8, 2007 7:26 PM

Alco fan do you mean Ebay?? I checked a few days ago there was only a few 40 foot box cars for B&M under N scale. MisterB, I have been intrested in learning to airbrush, Is it a easy skill to learn? Pcarrel. My names Tim again you confused me with TrainFreak409Sign - Oops [#oops] Yes you have about 1 car out for your region.

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Posted by GAPPLEG on Monday, January 8, 2007 7:40 PM

 trainfreek92 wrote:
I realise that these railroads have a smaller fan base even though in my opinion there paint schemes are nicer then stupid SP...... no offene to SP fans butDisapprove [V] I dont really model any real place in New England just a  mixture of New England stuff. I have a freind that can paint so I guess I could have him do stuff for me. I run some CP stuff and also hate how little is offered for them. You guys all have valid points,I just wish they were not true.....

 Even though I model the "stupid"  SP , I never waited for anything to come out pre-painted. I have and always will paint my own. There have been exceptions. The BLI AC6000 I got was factory painted. Other than that I paint and decal my own, including freight cars for the most part. Just part of the hobby I enjoy. Not everyone enjoys the painting and decaling. I tend to buy undecorated units, these days those are hard to get, So I just buy the one I want and strip it and paint it up. Decals are available for even most of the roads you mentioned. Try it , you might like it. 

 

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Posted by trainfreek92 on Monday, January 8, 2007 7:54 PM
Haha sorry about the SP thing but I get annoyed when they make a million western roads
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Posted by alco_fan on Monday, January 8, 2007 11:46 PM
 trainfreek92 wrote:

Alco fan do you mean Ebay?? I checked a few days ago there was only a few 40 foot box cars for B&M under N scale.

I did a search at 2134 PST on 1/8 and stopped counting at 20, including what's being offered at the eBay Stores. That's lots more than for my fairly obscure western road in HO.

MT 40' steel boxcars, Milk cars, flat cars, Seico boxes, covered hoppers, open hoppers, USRA double sheathed wood boxcars, gons, caboose, etc., etc.

They are not all at the greatest prices, so some patience might be in order for additional auctions to come on-line. Again, my point is, there is a lot in the resale market if you look beyond what's on the LHS shelves right now and can be patient over a few weeks or months.

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Posted by MAbruce on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 7:14 AM

 trainfreek92 wrote:
They offer NO New england Central stuff at all.

What?!  Atlas did a GP38 in NEC a few years ago.

Don't forget all the Guilford locos that have been rolling off lately:  SD26, GP40, SD35 (new), GP7 (new).

Also, Providence & Worcester:  B23-7, RS3, GP38, GP40.

Then an obsure New England like:  Bay Colony (who would have thought??) GP9.

Not to mention all the modern day CONRAIL and NS locos that ran/run through NE.

The New England roads are there, and I'm sure more are on the way...

 

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Posted by Bapou on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 8:02 AM
The gp38-2 is Atlas ho scale
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Posted by Bapou on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 8:03 AM
The gp38-2 is Atlas ho scale. As i pointed out before
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Posted by pcarrell on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 8:15 AM
 trainfreek92 wrote:

Pcarrel. My names Tim again you confused me with TrainFreak409Sign - Oops [#oops]

Ooops!  How embarassing!  I'm sorry Tim.

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Posted by MAbruce on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 8:17 AM

 Bapou wrote:
The gp38-2 is Atlas ho scale

Are you talking about the NEC GP38 (not -2) in N-scale?  Atlas did produce one in 2001 in two road numbers:  9528 & 9537 (Atlas part #49820 & 21).

As a reference, you can still get one of these for MSRP at Amherst Depot:  http://www.amherst-depot.com/atlas-n-GP38.htm

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 3:09 PM
 trainfreek92 wrote:
Haha sorry about the SP thing but I get annoyed when they make a million western roads
Sorry, but if you look at the facts many more people model midwestern and western roads. Perhaps you should switch to HO, lots of New England stuff here.
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Posted by Paul3 on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 5:56 PM

trainfreek92,
The main problem for N-scale is that Kato doesn't even know what is and isn't New England.  My example is when someone on the Atlas Forum went to the Kato booth at the Big E (Springfield, MA) show a few years back, and asked them why they didn't offer B&M RDC's as it would be nice if Kato did some New England railroads.  The Kato USA rep. replied that they had just covered New England railroads by releasing some PRR F-units...  Yikes!

The main reason why the NH stuff gets made is because the NH, while small, ran through some of the most dense population centers in North America while connecting three state capitals to one of the largest cities in the world.  Sure, the ATSF, SP, etc. all were far longer, but most of their milage goes through population zones of about .001 person per mile (that's a made up figure...obviously).

The B&M just kind of went from Boston to...not much.  Yes, they had connector service to Montreal, but the B&M had really only one major, big time city that it served...and it shared that with the B&A and NH. 

The MEC has the same problems, except that it's based out of Portland, ME...and that's not exactly on par with Boston.

The BAR, while famous for it's "State of Maine" cars, is even more in the hinterlands.

The NEC/CV went from Montreal to...New London (not exactly a booming business even in the old days).  If they had built the SNE, then it would have made a world of difference as they would have had a line to Providence.  But it never happened thanks to the Titanic.

The point I'm making here is that there were a millions of people every day that saw the NH come through one town or another which translates to more fans spending more money on the hobby.  The other New England roads weren't as fortunate.

Paul A. Cutler III
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Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

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Posted by grayfox1119 on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 6:06 PM
I guess we will just have to buy unlettered locos and do our own work until one of the manufacturers decides..."hey, there is a nitch market out that that no one is covering, hmmmmm an opportunity arises".
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Posted by Eriediamond on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 7:39 PM
I can kind of understand the manufacturers products not representing the lesser known road names or smaller regional roads. I have some what of the same problem with modeling the ERIE. Not quite as bad though, as there are plenting of locos, both steam and diesel and plenty of rolling stock, both freight and passenger. But try to find an ERIE caboose?? There are some for the E-L after the Erie-Lackawanna merger. Ken
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Posted by trainfreek92 on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 8:23 PM
 Paul3 wrote:

trainfreek92,
The main problem for N-scale is that Kato doesn't even know what is and isn't New England.  My example is when someone on the Atlas Forum went to the Kato booth at the Big E (Springfield, MA) show a few years back, and asked them why they didn't offer B&M RDC's as it would be nice if Kato did some New England railroads.  The Kato USA rep. replied that they had just covered New England railroads by releasing some PRR F-units...  Yikes!

The main reason why the NH stuff gets made is because the NH, while small, ran through some of the most dense population centers in North America while connecting three state capitals to one of the largest cities in the world.  Sure, the ATSF, SP, etc. all were far longer, but most of their milage goes through population zones of about .001 person per mile (that's a made up figure...obviously).

The B&M just kind of went from Boston to...not much.  Yes, they had connector service to Montreal, but the B&M had really only one major, big time city that it served...and it shared that with the B&A and NH. 

The MEC has the same problems, except that it's based out of Portland, ME...and that's not exactly on par with Boston.

The BAR, while famous for it's "State of Maine" cars, is even more in the hinterlands.

The NEC/CV went from Montreal to...New London (not exactly a booming business even in the old days).  If they had built the SNE, then it would have made a world of difference as they would have had a line to Providence.  But it never happened thanks to the Titanic.

The point I'm making here is that there were a millions of people every day that saw the NH come through one town or another which translates to more fans spending more money on the hobby.  The other New England roads weren't as fortunate.

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

Paul you seem to make a lot of sense. I may not want what your saying to be the truth but Sadly it is.... I am not switching to Ho, even with the small number of cars out there I can still have more fun for me in N scale. I have been working on my current layout but I only need a few more locos and cars to fill the layout so you say whats the big deal right?? Well I was planning to build a realistic Pennsy RR layout also once I was done my current RR. I am now thinking about making a mainly MEC/B&M mountain division layout and with my current rr modeling a present day layout based on Western Mass/ Vermont (not realistic) with Green Mountain trains. New England RR trains P&W trains,CSX trains and a few NS trains. My current layout is all flat and only desinged to run one train in one direction!!!!!!!!!!! I am going to make it look good but for a MEC layout I want something realistic. Thanxs for the ebay infoApprove [^] I wish Kato would look at a map sometimesWhistling [:-^] Phillip no problem no ones perfect! Tim

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Posted by Dave-the-Train on Tuesday, January 9, 2007 11:12 PM
So, where is New England?  Confused [%-)]  Just to the east of New South Wales? Whistling [:-^]

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