Plastic v. Brass

[orsonroy]

I only buy brass when I can't get an engine or signature car any other way. Looking at my brass collection shows three cabooses that would be real PITA's to scratchbuild, three steamers that will never be offered any other way, and five Orienta Powerhouse USRA mikes that are actually the best and most affordable choice for diehard USRA mike fans (Athearn's are POS, as are IHC's and Bowsers, "real" brass is too expensive, and BLI's aren't out yet).

In all cases, I prefer plastic or cast metal over brass. The collector's market has driven the prices of new brass through the roof, making it out of reach for most (including myself). And from what I've seen, I superdetail steam at least as well as the brass manufacturers, plastic runs better than brass (I've worked on more brass steamers than I own), plastic is more DCC- and sound-friendly, and plastic costs around 1/10th of brass. Add up all the variables, and it's plastic for me!

[darth9x9]

If money is no object, Overland's RTR brass is a no brainer. They even come with Kadee couplers installed.

[cjcrescent]

Jetrock;

I LOVE IT!!!, "Every engine ever made is available in plastic!" Wish I had seen it. I'm sure I really would have blown a gasket. I probably have a list as big as yours of what I would like to have but is not made at all.

Since I model SRR in steam, lets see what is and what's not available, plastic or brass. Start with best known SRR locos, Ps-4's 5-heavy Pacifics, 3-brass, 2-with elesco FWH, 1-with Worthington FWH, 2-different tenders, 2-plastic, 1 needs major redetailing to make a Ps-4 of either type, 1 needs trailing truck changed. These were the only USRA 4-6-2 types on the roster. Where are the P, P-1, P-2, P-3's? None of these are USRA's. 2-mikes, brass Ms-4's USRA heavy clones . One plastic USRA heavy, needs major redetailing. 1-Ms-7 Brass, only because prior WWII, was ERIE RR, real odd looking compared to rest of roster with the only vandy tenders on roster. 3-light USRA's Ms-3's, 1-brass, 3-plastic again specific detail highly lacking on all, but plastic is worse. 1-Ms mike, brass real POS, # specific 4501.
Where are the rest of the pre USRA mikes, M, Ms, Ms-1,Ms-2, or the Ms-5 & 6's which were converted from light 2-10-2's. 4-0-8-0 switchers, USRA 3-brass, 1 plastic, none are specific, SRR never owned USRA 0-6-0's, so there are none of those usable. There is one brass 0-6-0 that is close in boiler shape and size of clinders and drivers are close, but to make SRR results in major rebuilding.
What plastic can I use to give me class B's,(4-4-0's), C's (4-4-2's), D,E,F (4-6-0's) 1-F-1 4-6-0 brass # specific-949. 1 F-11 4-6-0 plastic, needs major redetailing to make correct.
How about, G, (1 old kit long OOP), H, I, J, K, Ks-1, Ks-2, Ks-3, 2-8-0's. There is one 1-Ks 2-8-0 brass. Each one of the 4-6-0 & 2-8-0 classes were so different from the other, that not even driver, boiler, or cylinder size were similar, most were built prior to 1900, except the class K's, and most lasted until after WWII.
Here again where are the class L shays, class L, (same class as shay, SRR considered the shay an articulated) articulated 2-6-8-0, Ls-1 2-8-8-2, Ls-2 2-8-8-2. S-class 2-10-2, 4 brass USRA's,3 lights and 1 heavy, 1-USRA light kit, and a new plastic USRA light just announced. We do almost as well with USRA light mountains, with 2 Brass Ts-1's, 1 kit, and one plastic. SRR didn't have heavy 4-8-2's.
This does not even cover the oddballs that all RR's had. There is one "Tractor" in brass a 2-10-2+2-8-0, the 2-8-0 mech is mounted under the tender. This of course leaves out the 2-8-2+2-6-2 variations. I haven't even touched on SRR 3' narrow gauge 2-6-0, 2-6-2's and others. And all of this is just steam, never mind the diesels like the big Trainmasters that aren't available at all. Both plastic versions, Atlas & Athearn, come with the standard high ends. SRR bought their locos with the ends cut down to standard EMD height by FM to allow access, via regular drop steps on the Geep's these were run between.
Sorry about the rant, but at times it really irks me to hear a blanket statement like that.

[Jetrock]

If there were ***ANY*** plastic models available for the things I like to model most, I suppose I would buy them. When I do buy brass, I don't buy four-digit-pricetag monster master brass, because I don't like big engines anyhow.

I own three brass locomotives. The most expensive was $130, the cheapest $50. They have NEVER been made in plastic, so if I wanted to own a Baldwin-Westinghouse Class D steeplecab or a Birney single-truck safety car, brass was THE ONLY WAY TO GO. If anyone produced them in plastic, I'd be happy but I don't think it is going to happen any time soon. On another plastic vs. brass thread, some user mentioned "EVERY ENGINE EVER MADE IS AVAILABLE IN PLASTIC!" I replied with a list of things I would give my eye-tooth to see in plastic (but do not exist) but that user got very, very quiet after that point...

So, in general, if you model common stuff then there is plenty of plastic for you. If you model obscure things, you may have to go brass--which MAY mean spending a lot of money but does not HAVE to mean that.

[Anonymous]

Top end modern brass (you DID say money was no object), blows the friggin doors off plastic.
Plus in 20 years, it will hold its value and most importantly, if it dies, a good mechanic can fix it. Just try to find parts for a 20 year old plastic model!!
I can work on brass mechanisms. With a NWSL catalog under my arm, I can bring a dead one back to life. I doubt that will be so plastic stuff dies!

[Anonymous]

Its not what it is made of, but what it is made to resemble, that is most important to me.

Brass models generally rate better for durability, but are also very high in cost, and in the case of older ones, do not run so well out of the box. Yes you can upgrade the guts with newer parts, but that only drives up the costs even further.
Plastic models are cheaper, and are getting much better in running and detail quality. But its rare that you'll see some one-road, low in number prototype done in plastic. The demand is to low.

Alvie.

[Anonymous]

I can't afford brass, and besides just about everything I need is made in plastic.

[Anonymous]

I chose plastice because some of the best runners are in plastic in N-scale these days, and because I can detail the plastic ones easier, and modify those that I need to to create engines that aren't even available in brass in N-scale.

---jps

[mikebonellisr]

You did say 'if money were no object'...In that case I'd buy the brass and have it re-powered,super detailed and custom painted.If I could'nt do that, then I would go for a good running plastic model....but in the morning I'd still have only a piece of PLASTIC.

[twhite]

Sorry, there is no 'Versus'. It's like apples and oranges, mountains and valleys, Britney S;pears and Ella Fitzgerald. What you like is what you like and that's what you get if you want it bad enough. I've got both brass and plastic (steam) and I've had good luck with both, lemons with both. I've got an old AHM plastic cab-forward that I run only if desperate, and a fairly new brass MOPAC 4-6-2 that is so weak that I'm planning on putting her on a permanent storage track as soon as I get my locomotive servicing facilty modeled. I've also got new BLI, SPECTRUM and P2K plastic that runs as well as anything I've ever seen, and old AKANE and PFM brass that I can still hook to the garage door to raise it. It's a moot point. Plastic is often generic (USRA) and brass is often specific (Missabe 2-8-8-4) and that has to do with a manufacturer targeting either a general or a specific market. For instance, some months ago, OVERLAND came out with a GE steam turbine. Egad, what a beautiful locomotive, but I wouldn't hold my breath for either BLI or P2K to come out with a duplicate soon, because as much as I'd like to see one in plastic, there just may not be that big a market for it. But then again, you never know--the SPECTRUM 2-6-6-2 USRA. Who'd have thunk? A not so well known WW1 articulated suddenly mass-produced in plastic? And it's selling, to boot. Do you know how difficult it was to find in brass, before SPECTRUM? Dang near impossible unless you could find a used AKANE or PFM. So, there's room for both. Generic and specific, either plastic or brass, whatever you want. "Versus" is just not a key word here. Especially since some of the prices of plastic locomotives are beginning to approach that of brass, which makes this whole topic moot.

[cjcrescent]

"The following opinions are those of the writer's, and are not reflective of the opinions of the management of this or any other station."

I didn't vote, as I didn't like the choices, (so-so brass?, money no object?) but I prefer brass. I think that brass has many advantages over plastic but I will mention only a few.

I do own 2 plastic steamers and would like to get one more to round out the roster. All are Spectrum. The only advantage plastic has over brass, in my mind, currently is price. Add on sound, and DCC the MSRP approaches what I paid for my brass articulated many years ago.

I know that brass is expensive nowadays, and I haven't bought any new since 1985. But even in todays dollars it didn't seem that expensive then for what you got. Most I ever paid was $300 for an articulated, (Akane). I had a very cooperative LHS who let me put them on layaway then nickel and dime him until they were paid for. Even my oldest brass, which dates from 1964, is as nicely detailed, if not better detailed, as the current crop of plastic steamers. Plastic steamers are well detailed and they are very nice, but brass is detailed MINIMALLY to a specific prototype's class of engine, some even to a specific single loco. The plastic locos are, with some exceptions, more generic. For most plastic locos the only difference is the paint applied to the model.

Brass is definitely easier to work on than plastic. Brass steamers, no matter which make, generally have only three or four screws to remove to release the boiler from the frame, whereas each maker of the plastic steamers have a different way to disassemble theirs.

Brass is also way easier to paint. Need to strip a brass, Disassemble it, dunk it into lacquer thinner and remove 15 mins later. Paint is gone. Plastic steamers may or may not disintergrate in any of the popular paint strippers on the market, provided you can find one that works on that particular brand. After they are stripped, the paint media itself may damage the surface if applied wrong.

Brass definitely holds its value. I could sell any piece of my brass and at the very least, get what I paid for it. More than likely I will get more. Plastic locos are like a new automobile, they loose value as soon as they leave the dealer and are run for any length of time.

I'm not saying there are not so-so pieces of brass and there are. Worst I ever saw was Empire Midland's model of the SRR 4501. The frame on 6 of the 7 my LHS had was warped such that the loco rocked back and forth from the front drivers to the back drivers. EM said it was not their problem. I believe the quality of this piece and their attitude insured that they weren't in business for long. I think that this was the only model they imported before they went out of business. Took me six months to repair all of them for him, as I basically wound up scratchbuilding new frames for them out of heavier gauge brass.

[Anonymous]

I'll stick with so-so brass passenger cars.
Ch

[Anonymous]

So-so brass??? there is not such thing. Brass rules, sure plastic is nice looking, but still can not compare to brass. I buy quality brass only.

[Anonymous]

None of the above. I'll vote when all the candidates, such as quality brass engines are on the ballot.

Wayne

[3railguy]

I got a little confused by the question. You ask us to choose between finely detailed plastic to so so brass which I took as high end plastic or budget brass, yet money is no objective. So I answered plastic although I would prefer fine scale high end brass (if I could afford it)

[Fergmiester]

As was originally posted "price no object" Then I would definately go Brass for the following reasons: More durable and robust, will not devaluate but rather increase in value with time, you can actually get "hard to find" types, though in limited quatities. They will stand the test of time.

Regards
Fergie

[on30francisco]

I prefer plastic because it's affordable and looks great. Even if some of the plastic locomotives aren't as detailed as their brass brethern, you can always add more details to them at your leisure. I tried modeling in On3 and Sn3. The only locos available in those scales were (and still are) extremely expensive brass. Consequently I never bought a loco. When Bachmann came out with their line of high quality Spectrum plastic On30 locos, I immediately switched scales and gauges. Even the BLI locos in On30 are much, much cheaper than the brass locos in On3 and Sn3. If it wasn't for plastic locos, We would all have to be either master craftsmen or very wealthy to be in this hobby.

[Martin4]

For many years now plastic has surpassed brass with the finesse of detail that technology has made possible ; for the price, nothing in brass even comes close to the diesels you get from Proto 2000, Genesis, Atlas or Kato. I'm not so sure about the steam engines but I guess the plastic new ones will set a higher reference in that category too.

Martin
Québec City

[vsmith]

If anyone out there needs to be convinced of how far plastic has come you need to find a store that carries Bachmanns Large Scale 2-8-0 Consolidation or their 2-4-0 or 2-6-0 spectrum lines WOW are they well done, If this can be done in large scale,their HO specrum must be as good

A premium detailed brass engine is $1000+ no matter what scale your in. OK brass is still around $500 so give me high quality plastic.

[Anonymous]

Detting , I agree whole Heart'dly. Nough said.[8D]

[detting]

I would neverer buy a brass diesel, the new plastic engines are much better in looks, performance and price. Also because I am a steam head :-)

Anyway, I am less likely to buy brass in the future, since there is so many nice plastic and diecast pieces out there. It is hard to justify spending $400 on a brass piece when I can get a similiar unit with sound for about $100 less. The problem is, and this has been debated ad nasuem in other forums, but brass is the domain of the collectors. Fortunately, operators have more choices now than ever before.

[vw-bug]

Brass...as it will outlast any plastic model outhere. And when I am old I'd love to see my grand children running the old 2-8-0 that I have.

I, of course, have several plastics that I enjoy and they look pretty darn good. It really comes down to money at the end of the day.

[Anonymous]

Gentlemen, You are correct about the wording of the poll. Obviously a top notch Brass Model will be in or close to the four figure price range. I put the "So-So" wording in to give an impression of parity price wise.

I for one, would love to have nothing but Brass, but as other comments reflect, cost is the determining factor. (Who woulda guessed[;)] huh?) It appears justification of such expense is quite prevalent in this poll.

[CP5415]

I have a brass 0-4-0 Dockside. It out pulls everything i have. I would love to have a brass 4-6-4 Canadian Pacific Hudson or a 4-8-4 in CP livery as well. But until I can convince the wife to shell out the G-note for these, I'll stick with plastic

Gordon

[Anonymous]

I' m just a cheap Dutchman who can't (or won't) justify the expense of brass. Besides, the level of detail is excellent on my plastic Shay. I would like a galloping goose and if its not available in plastic, I will just have to kit bash and make one, just like the real one was.

[preceng]

I have some brass, but theyare the showcase collector pieces. The stuff on my layout is plastic

[tomwatkins]

Plastic works for me. Brass is just too expensive for me to justify. I'm comfortable working with plastic and enjoy kit bashing and adding details to get an accurate model.

Tom Watkins

[Anonymous]

It's all plastic here, accept I have a brass 4-6-0. I would love to have a brass big boy, too.

[DSchmitt]

I bought brass N scale diesel locomotives GP 7, GP9, S1, S4, F's) 20+ years ago when there was no plastic available of comparable accuracy and detail. I bought plastic then also. The 1970's Atlas GP9 is was a nice model which could be upgraded with thinner handrails and the brass U50 while very nice was not a lot better looking than the Minitrix at the head of a train. But the plastic modes available now are a lot better. I still buy brass if its a good model of what I want and there isn't a good alternative in plastic. (recently a beautiful brass WP caboose)

[Anonymous]

The only brass I might consider buying would be a certain type of relatively rare protoype that is not likely ever to appear as a plastic kit or R-T-R. Examples: modern multi-compartment tank cars or carbon black covered hopper cars.

Even then, I would rather scratchbuild or kitbash something to make what I want, if only for the sense of accomplishment.

John