The "N" Crowd

[n2mopac]

Thanks!  I always appreciate a visit to my site. Nice to know that someone looks occasionally when you go to the trouble of posting it. Thanks again.

Ron

[Blue Flamer]

 

After 25 Years, that Caboose is in desparate need of some SERIOUS weathering. Dont'cha think???  " border="0" />

Blue Flamer.

 

Uh...actually I'm modeling about 25 years ago...yeah, that's it.....

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. 

You've got me believing you Kenfolk. But then I really do believe that there is a, "STARGATE PROGRAM". Who could write stories like that. Huh!

Blue Flamer. 

nscale1969 

You will get a lot of help here on the "N Crowd" and the MRR Forums in general. Enjoy and do not be afraid to ask any question. Someone should be able to help you out.

Blue Flamer. 

You know. Stargate SG1. Jack O'Neill. Step through a vertical pool of shimmering water and come out a couple of seconds later on the other side of the known Universe. You know? Don't you? It is real, isn't it? 

B F 

[fluff]

Good to see a thread for us N scalers! I am currently working a completely freelanced layout in a 10 x 9 x 10 around the walls config. I seem to gravitate towards the pieces that made up the BN as well as the BN itself and thus have GN, CB&Q and BN engines. I also have some modern NS power.

All of my trackwork is Atlas c55 as it looks the most prototypical to me. Here is a shot of some of my progress...Hope the pic isn't too big..

 

 

Rob

rob, looks great! i am building an almost identical size layout. mine will be an around the wall 12x12x12 u-shaped deal. is yours a point to point or continuious running? i have all the benchwork done and the foam glued down. ready to lay some 55 rail and needing some ideas. tried to post some pics, cant do it for some reason. what i really want to know is your track plan configuration...thanks

[nscale1969]

Hi Fluff,

In terms of track plan all I have is a visio that I have created and it's not yet complete and neither is the layout trackage.... It is a continuous run, double track main with a yard and interchanges via each main as well as numerous spurs to industry. I really just tacked track down and did what worked best operationally as I went. Nothing was ballasted until I was certain I would not be changing that portion of trackage. At this point I would say that 10% of it is complete in terms of permanent trackage. The rest is tacked and will remain so until I have made darn sure that's what I want to do.

I probably could have done a lot more planning but I have had great fun just flying by the seat of my pants so to speak...This doesn't work for many people of course and to each his own.

I can send the visio if you like. Just let me know.

 Thanks,

Rob

[STOCKCAR]

I'm looking for a site for a Pennsy layout on a door. I know about Dave Vollmer's great layout, which I really enjoy, but I'm also trying to find this other layout. The only thing I remember is that the coal mine is flipped from where Dave's mine is located, but on the same end.

 Thanks for any help.

[Blue Flamer]

I'm looking for a site for a Pennsy layout on a door. I know about Dave Vollmer's great layout, which I really enjoy, but I'm also trying to find this other layout. The only thing I remember is that the coal mine is flipped from where Dave's mine is located, but on the same end.

 Thanks for any help.

I seem to remember another door layout but not whose it was. Maybe if I give this a little BUMP to get it up to page 1 someone may jump in to help you out.

    to the "N" Crowd.
 

Blue Flamer. 

[mazdamn02]

I have to decide whether or not to join the "n" crowd. I'm back after a 10yr hiatus, and I have tons of HO scale stuff from a while back, but don't have much room, 4' x 8' absolute max. I love the fact that I could put way more stuff in N scale, but I'd have a bunch of HO scale stuff sitting around, it'd be like starting all over... thoughts?

[Wdlgln005]

If a 4x8 is all the space you have, forget that Horribly Oversize & convert to Normal scale!

You could follow the same trackplan, with curves of the same diameter, just not as wide, unless you want to run doubletrack on the old HO ROW. You may also be able to salvage the power supply till/unless you want to run DCC.

All of the scenery techniques will still apply in N scale. The trees don't have to be so large. THere may be some structures & other items not available in N scale yet.

Something to consider is Z scale. Check out the new MTL product line. You may want to have a Zscale item when somebody says N is "too small". A 4x8 could be quite an empire in Z!
BTW you may have seen the Hallmark Lionel American Freedom Train ornaments this year. They are very close to Z scale!

[SS Express]

Go easy on me fellas......I don't post much but this is a really good thread. My dad got me into N scale when I was a little kid, I guess around 7 or 8 years old. I am 42 now and I still love my N scale!! I still have some of the trains my dad bought for me from the early 70's. I usually put up the layout for the holidays every year and keep it going until early spring. That's why I love N scale. It stores easy. I have a variety of power, everything from steam to SD-45's. I model mostly local RR's from my area. Pennsy, Reading, and Lehigh Valley, NYC, Erie, and some B&O.

Here is a pic......

or 2....

[PhilSF]

Hi mazdamn02,

Just to bump this up and maybe get you some responses.

4' x 8' can be an EMPIRE in N scale compared with what one can do in the same area in HO.  I don't know what you're modeling but whatever it is, you'll have more room for it.

I have a 3' x 6.5' layout based on a rural scene with a (very) small town and 2 industries serviced by my short line with a double mainline going by.  It's not a monster, but at 64, it's my first (and probably last) layout and I get a lot of kicks with scenery modifications.

If you're still interested in N, e-mail me and I can send you a list of several sites for layout plans and more.

 Phil

[R. T. POTEET]

I get "The 'N' Crowd" entry #1300; I get "The 'N' Crowd" entry #1300. Yah-Yah-Yah-YahYah!

Actually there PhilSF, welcome to the MR Forum and to "The 'N' Crowd". A lot of useful information up here and the tone of your first entry indicates you are going to become a responsible member; pleased to meet you.

I have been in N Scale since the early '80s and, as stated elsewhere in the forum, I am rapidly approaching the ripe-old-age of 68. My wife and I recently retook possession of the 14X68 two bedroom mobile home on the adjacent lot and I am currently working up plans for my next - and, most likely last - layout. By knocking out a wall converting this unit to a one bedroom I will have a working area greater than 150 square feet for my layout; the kitchen area will also be mine for my train room - library, work area, storage, etc. One of my previous layouts was the HO Railroad That Grows, an old Linn Westcott project railroad dating to the 1950s. I also utilized a 4X8 panel for my N Scale version but with modified curve radius and about fifty percent more industrial capacity. I am giving considerable attention to redoing this design using a 54 to 60 inch wide platform and 18/19.5 inch radius curves. It may not be the exact space I would kill for but it is more space than I have ever had available to me before and this is going to be my (scale) empire.

[PhilSF]

Thanks, rtpoteet.  I guess I should have waited for one more post.

I remember the HO Railroad That Grows, and wanted to build it.  However college, family and life got in the way.  Now that I have time I'm just going to do the best I can with my little 36" x 80" door layout and have fun.  That's what it's all about.

[Cox 47]

Afternoon all...Havn't dropped in for awhile..I post over on the Dinner most days...I have been doing alittle on the layout..I scrapped my coal mine and am going with a truck dump just don't have room for a mine done right...also rehabing 15 to 20 "junk Box" cars from Ebay...I have been body mounting Atlas couplers and adding weight..today I took the shell off a LL GP 20 to see if I can come up with a homemade coupler conversion.....




This is a photo of a IC switcher spotting a Staley tanker on the team track at Greenup Illinois on my Illinois and Southern.....Cox 47

[jaretos]

I hope a fellow n scaler can help me with this question:  I recently purchased an atlas geep 38-2 low nose w/ a lenz decoder equipped and notice a humming that comes from the engine upon starting and stopping.  I played around with cv2 to change the start voltage, but still get the hum.  I compare this to an atlas mp-15dc which i personally installed a TCS decoder, and has no hum whatsoever, and runs beautifully.  Are the Lenz decoders inferior to the TCS decoders or am I missing something?  Is there a fix to this problem, have I not broken in the engine enough?  PS, I have two of the same atlas gp38-2's, so I know it is not the particular engine.  Sorry for the rambling, and thanks for the help!!

 John 

[jaretos]

I hope a fellow n scaler can help me with this question:  I recently purchased an atlas geep 38-2 low nose w/ a lenz decoder equipped and notice a humming that comes from the engine upon starting and stopping.  I played around with cv2 to change the start voltage, but still get the hum.  I compare this to an atlas mp-15dc which i personally installed a TCS decoder, and has no hum whatsoever, and runs beautifully.  Are the Lenz decoders inferior to the TCS decoders or am I missing something?  Is there a fix to this problem, have I not broken in the engine enough?  PS, I have two of the same atlas gp38-2's, so I know it is not the particular engine.  Sorry for the rambling, and thanks for the help!!

 John 

[mls1621]

The Lenz decoders that Atlas is using are not full function units.  I've exchanged Emails and phone conversations with one of their techs.

I've replaced a decoder in an SD24 with a Digitrax unit and everything is now fine.  I've since purchased a second SD24, but this time without the decoder.

The Decoder equiped N scale locos from Atlas cannot be speed matched to other locos.

Buy them decoder ready and put in a Digitrax decoder, it will save you alot of stress.

 

[jaretos]

Thanks for the info!  Now I feel like I have wasted money in the decoder equipped units.  I will try to find a replacement for the gp38-2's.  One question though, what is the differencebetween full function and the alternative?

 thanks,

john

[mls1621]

John, 

I guess I can't really give you a full answer to that question.  When I asked Atlas why they didn't used a better decoder, I was told it was on their "to do list" to change the decoders.

For me, a full function decoder allows alterations to the basic CV's.  I've never had to resort to using speed tables when speed matching locomotives, just CV's 2, 5 and 6.

He Emailed an Excel file with some settings for enabling the speed tables as well as a  set of values as a starting point, but I couldn't get them to work at all.  The settings he recommended for CV29 would have negated my four digit address capability, I use the locomotives number for my addressing.  My SD24's and my H15-44 have three and four digit numbers respectively.

I have a brass UP turbine.  I bought my first SD24 to MU with it, but the Lenz decoder prevented speed matching.  I had contacted Digitrax and John didn't know if one of their decoders would correct the situation.  He sighted the "scale speed motors" that Atlas is using in their newer products as the cause.

Rather than using it for a lone switcher, I finally bit the bullet and bought a Digitrax decoder and installed it.  Shazam!!, problem solved.  I've only used Digitrax decoders in the past and have never had a problem with them.  I'm sure there are others that are just as good, but I'll stick with what works for me.

One note, however.  The Lenz decoder had large blobs of solder at the points where they make contact with the chassis.  Those chassis points had been broadened to accept the decoder.  As a result, I had to do some creative mounting to get the Digitrax decoder to make a good connection.  When you change the decoder in your GP38-2, you may have to close the gap in the chassis to acheive good contact.  Be very careful not to break the chassis.  The white metal chasis is soft, but some care needs to be taken.

My second SD24 was purchased without a decoder installed.  The chassis didn't have the spread contact points like the other and made decoder installation much easier.

I hope this helps, John.  I've sweated over the same thing you're going through and though it isn't rocket science, it's disconcerting.

My neighbor has four or five of the newer Atlas locos and he's looking at having to replace the decoders in all of them.

Please don't read more into my post than my discontent with the decoder, Atlas makes some of the best locos available in N scale.   

[n2mopac]

I have this same loco w/ factory installed decoder by Lenz. This is not Lenz's top of the line decoder, but it is not as bad as made sound here. They can be speed matched and mu'ed--I run mine in a lash-up for local freights. Your humming problem is not due to you decoder. The decoder is a glorified computer chip--there is nothing there to make noise. You are getting vibration in your motor. Try lubing all of your motor bearings. Especially grease the bearing at the extreme end of the drive shaft at both ends.

Ron

[jaretos]

Thanks for the information from both of you!  I will try the lubrication route and attempt to continue to break in the engines, if not I will definatley try the decoder route.

John

 

[mls1621]

I have this same loco w/ factory installed decoder by Lenz. This is not Lenz's top of the line decoder, but it is not as bad as made sound here. They can be speed matched and mu'ed--I run mine in a lash-up for local freights. Your humming problem is not due to you decoder. The decoder is a glorified computer chip--there is nothing there to make noise. You are getting vibration in your motor. Try lubing all of your motor bearings. Especially grease the bearing at the extreme end of the drive shaft at both ends.

Ron

Please tell us how you were able to speed match your locos.  I'm not being sarcastic here, I'd really like to know.

When I tried to adjust CV's 2, 5 or 6, they seemed to accept the new values, but when rechecking, they reverted back to factory settings of CV2-002, CV's 5 and 6-000. 

As mentioned in my previous post, when attempting to enter the speed table values supplied by Atlas, and trying to maintain my four digit addressing, nothing worked.  I had to revert to my previous setting to CV29 just to get the loco to respond to the throttle.

When MU'ing with Kato or earlier Atlas, the loco drags behind in the consist.  My H15-44 needs a throttle setting of 28 to start creeping, my other locos are moving right along at that setting.

If I'm missing something, please tell me what it is.

From what I've experienced, it costs no more, other than time, to buy the loco decoder ready and install a decoder that you know will work to your satisfaction.

[navygunner]

The lenz decoders in Atlas locomotives for the past few years are low cost, low frill items.  The sound that you hear is the motor reacting to the frequency of the output of the decoder.  The decoder puts out about 8KHZ square wave to the motor and at low speeds you hear the motor oscillating at that frequency.  A lot of the consumer installed decoders are 'supersonic', they output at a frequency above 20KHZ.  This frequency is above that which we can hear.

On the H16-44, there is only the factory supplied  decoder due to the class lights.  They are going to make noise.

When buying decoder equipped models, you are going to have to deal with the sound and complain to Atlas.  If you keep buying the same old thing, you are going to get the same old thing.

 Bob

 

[Anonymous]

I want to convert a Kato SD90-43 MAC into a SD90 MAC with a Ferromex paint scheme and have beveled edges to the engine compartment as the 6000 horse power locomotives have. I've never altered a locomotive in any way and I was wondering if I could acquire N-scale Ferromex decals to make my job less tedious. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[R. T. POTEET]

Thanks, rtpoteet.  I guess I should have waited for one more post.

I remember the HO Railroad That Grows, and wanted to build it.  However college, family and life got in the way.  Now that I have time I'm just going to do the best I can with my little 36" x 80" door layout and have fun.  That's what it's all about.

Phil, about ten years ago when I was preparing to build what became my last N Scale layout I went into a Home Despot in Phoenix and checked into an interior/hollow core door. The largest size I could find was 32X80; when I inquired of a clerk I was told that that was their largest in-stock size but they could order up to 42X84. I was directed to a door manufacturer - since out of business but I know where another one is - who informed me that he could construct an interior/hollow core door in about any size I wanted. There was a $17.00 special order fee but that still put about any door of practical size at less than $50.00. I bring this up to inform you that there are these doors available in sizes exceeding 36X80 in case you might be interested in something a tad larger.

[PhilSF]

Thanks for the info, R.T.  I already have my door and have attached the foam.  I found the door at Home Depot - it had a hole in one side about the size of a silver dollar (no, not the new ones) and I picked it up for $5.

[jaretos]

The lenz decoders in Atlas locomotives for the past few years are low cost, low frill items.  The sound that you hear is the motor reacting to the frequency of the output of the decoder.  The decoder puts out about 8KHZ square wave to the motor and at low speeds you hear the motor oscillating at that frequency.  A lot of the consumer installed decoders are 'supersonic', they output at a frequency above 20KHZ.  This frequency is above that which we can hear.

On the H16-44, there is only the factory supplied  decoder due to the class lights.  They are going to make noise.

When buying decoder equipped models, you are going to have to deal with the sound and complain to Atlas.  If you keep buying the same old thing, you are going to get the same old thing.

 Bob

Bob:  This sounds more like the situation I am trying to describe.  It is the "Humming" that occurs when the loco starts and stops.  Once up to speed, the loco runs great.  The TCS decoder I have in my MP-15DC is "quiet" upon start and stop.  It is obvious when you run the two locos side by side.  This is why I am concluding it is the decoder.  I am going to install a digitrax decoder in one unit, and leave the Lenz in the other GP-38 and we will then know for sure!  Thanks to all for the great info!

 

John

[R. T. POTEET]

The NSR HORIZONS column in the new issue of N Scale Railroading blurbs that Hornby is - I don't quite know whether to say 'considering' or 'in the process of' - retooling at least some of their Rivarossi, Arnold, and Lima dies. This column states that Hornby has been

..........lobbied to bring back some of the better models currently unavailable with various upgrades...........

. I would relish a reissue of the Arnold S-2; Lima - at one time I believe - issued an RSD-15 and FA2/FB2 both lokes being on my transition era wish-list.

Let me inject a comment here: it used to be that the differing mechanics between manufacturers necessitated lashing up like units - or at least like manufacturers - into motive power consists. An A-B-B-A lashup of F7s is very handsome but DCC makes it possible to mate,say, an FA2 with an F3B with a GP18 - and that, probably more than anything else, has stimulated my growing interest in DCC.

[Walleye]

Mike,

If you go to this url,

http://www.atlasrr.com/pdf/LE063XF%20Manual_Atlas.pdf

you can download the manual for the Lenz decoder which comes installed in Atlas DCC locos. There is a table in the manual which lists all the programmable CVs, their defaults, and ranges. It should be helpful to anyone working with one of these decoders. A couple of things to note: On this decoder, CVs 5 and 6 are not addressable, so you can't change top and mid voltages. Also, CV29, bit5 switches between 2-digit and 4-digit addressing. If you have a value for CV29 which sets 2-digit addressing, you need to add 32 (2^5) to that value to change to 4-digit addressing.

Hope this is useful to you.

-Walleye

 

[trainchris]

I would also love to see pictures of other N scale layouts - complete, under construction, or just a plan!

Its been just about two years since my last post on this forum. I had started a HO layout in the old house and then of course we moved. Now that were in our new house (two years) and all has settled down... I was able to claim my new layout space and my wife gave up trying to keep me from starting another one. That brings me to this post, I don't have the same size room as I did before so I decided to start fresh with N scale. I told the wife it would cost less because the trains are smaller. Its working for now.    Anyway, I started working on the bench work and got so excited while doing it I forgot to add wood work for any elevations, so now I have to go back and do some cutting to fix that. Its overall size measures 16' 2" X 4' 0" and after a few changes will have some elevation to it just not sure where and how yet. I will post some pictures ASAP.                                                          

[Wdlgln005]

The NSR HORIZONS column in the new issue of N Scale Railroading blurbs that Hornby is - I don't quite know whether to say 'considering' or 'in the process of' - retooling at least some of their Rivarossi, Arnold, and Lima dies. This column states that Hornby has been

..........lobbied to bring back some of the better models currently unavailable with various upgrades...........

. I would relish a reissue of the Arnold S-2; Lima - at one time I believe - issued an RSD-15 and FA2/FB2 both lokes being on my transition era wish-list.

Let me inject a comment here: it used to be that the differing mechanics between manufacturers necessitated lashing up like units - or at least like manufacturers - into motive power consists. An A-B-B-A lashup of F7s is very handsome but DCC makes it possible to mate,say, an FA2 with an F3B with a GP18 - and that, probably more than anything else, has stimulated my growing interest in DCC.

 

It would be great news if Hornby or somebody released a New & Improved Alco S2. I'd take anything in the Alco S1, S2, S3, S4 line. Anything made by Lima would be junk today. Still, a New & Improved RSD-15 Gator would be nice. We don't need any more FA type units. Menano/IHC has released a cheap version. Walthers/LL version is a fine model.