Are "pure" free lanced model railroads dead?

[pastorbob]

I strive to stay railroad pure on my Santa Fe, but there is a large chemical plant at Guthrie Oklahoma nestled amongst the milling and grain storage places called Stench Chemical.  I even have done a fleet of 10 chemical tanks and some covered hoppers lettered for Stench Chemical.  (STCX) reporting marks.

Bob

[fwright]

Fred, that's all fine and good, for someone with the knowledge and skills to carry it off, which I reckon you must have.

But I've seen so many freelance layouts that were neither realistic or plausible, because the builder lacked any real knowledge or insight into how things work. They didn't know much about railroads, history, architecture, graphic design, economics, geography, geology or botany, for starters.

I would argue that to build a freelance layout that is realistic and plausible, you need to have a good understanding of all these things. Ironically, the people who would most benefit from a bit of prototype research seem to be the ones most hostile to the idea.

But in the meantime, I'll go with what Ray Breyer stated in an earlier post - many freelance layouts suck.

All the best,

Mark.

Mark

Thanks.  Don't know if I have the skill to make the vision a reality, but I'm giving it my best shot.  But I am incredibly grateful to prototype modelers like yourself, and the authors of books about prototypes.  It is through these sources that I have learned what is realistic and plausible, and what is not.  And I have to take the research one step further and determine why particular prototypes used the practices they did.  Examples such as figuring out what size Shay would be appropriate, and which classes were being built in the 1880s and 1890s, why certain car manufacturers were shunned by some railroads and favored by others, and so on.  Then I decide what stance my free-lance line will take based upon the reasoning of the era. 

I've had to change the location of my free-lance line because the real world topography and situation didn't match the LDEs I had in mind.  The mismatch grated on me.  I might be turning into a rivet counter after all! 

I grew up in the hobby modeling other people's models and layouts because that's all I understood.  But buying some books about prototypes and the point being made about what I was modeling by the prototype modelers changed my direction.  Although my LDEs are still sometimes based on other model railroads, I am making sure they are plausible for the location and setting.

I do believe the most common reason for free-lance layouts not being realistic or plausible is falling into the trap of modeling other people's layouts.  Like I said, I enjoy the research and engineering across all disciplines that are required to build a railroad.  It's given me a much greater appreciation for our forefathers and what they accomplished.

But that's me, and how I enjoy the hobby.

Fred W 

[marknewton]

I don't think I've read a post by you yet that isn't arguing with somebody.  I just couldn't stand to see you start an argument with a ghost.

Then don't read my posts.

[marknewton]

Here we go, I predict a several paragraph long response with many,many quotes and witty retorts. 

Hope you make better models than you make predictions.

[secondhandmodeler]

I don't think I've read a post by you yet that isn't arguing with somebody.  I just couldn't stand to see you start an argument with a ghost.

Then don't read my posts.

Most of your posts are quite informative.  I appreciate your knowledge on most subjects.  I was addressing your combative responses to a few of the posts on this forum.  I have to apologize, part of my earlier response was based on an annoyance of old threads being brought up.  I noticed that the old threads were brought up without a new post.  I'm guessing someone posted a B.S. post, then deleted their post to show the last historical post as the most current post. 

[Geared Steam]

Here we go, I predict a several paragraph long response with many,many quotes and witty retorts. 

Hope you make better models than you make predictions.

Mark

But I was correct on the "witty retort" wasn't I? 

[Autobus Prime]

I do believe the most common reason for free-lance layouts not being realistic or plausible is falling into the trap of modeling other people's layouts. 

fw:

I agree with this. I wish I could say that particular practice was restricted to freelancers or one particular group, but unfortunately, it's not; people who are modeling real-life RRs do it as often as anybody else does.

Still, I think it is possible to overthink this.  You can overdo the studies into history, architecture, graphic design, economics, geography, geology, botany, and the exact thickness of the foam layer on top a draft of Ballantine Beer in 1956.  You can even let them stop you before you can get started.  I do like to look at the old photos in the libraries and browse online treasure-troves like the HABS archive and the RPI site.  I like things to look right.  In the end, though, I've got a railroad in my head and I'm going to bring it out, and if this or that isn't quite as it "would have been", well, one real world is never quite enough for us humans, is it?

Creativity and careful observation are really all you need in this hobby.

[Lateral-G]

I plan to freelance my forthcoming layout. It's narrow guage, loosely based on the D&RGW, with some C&S thrown in. I won't be running ACF hoppers or hi-cube box cars on it but what I do run will look like it belongs. I'm researching books and photos right now to get a flavor of bridges and structures. But if I find a structure of something from the eastern US that I like and looks like it could fit in my chosen theme then I'll put it in.

 

After all, my railroad has to make me happy, first and foremost.

As one of the finest scale modelers once said:

“Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to, and above all, have fun.”
- Al Superczynski (1947 - 2007)

-G- 

 

 

 

[vsmith]

Well since I'm feeling in a particularly jaunty mood today, lets toss this Atom Bomb into the mix:

My definition of freelancing is "that which has been made up or altered from the original prototype"

Thus it could be argued the ALL model railroads are "freelanced", even by those who claim to be following the most rigorous rules of prototyical standards out there. Heres why:

1. It is physically impossible to exactly model most real world pre-existing conditions due to space constrants. Any model railroad based on any real place will by necessity require condensing or compromises in order to fit any given location. 

2. These compromises are determined by what the individual modelers own preferences and prejudices are.

3. Given that no 2 modelers will ever model something that is identical to any other modeler, it must be given that the choices made by the modeler are unique interpretations of any pre-existing condition. Thier models become unique expressions of the modeler.

4. If its an interpretation, its by definition a freelancing if you will, even if that intrepretation is ment to follow the original condition as closely as possible. It still a personal expression of that modelers interpretaion of the existing condition.

Therefor any model railroad has had to have been "freelanced" to one degree or another, in order to meet the given space and conditions avaiable to model in, and as the personal interpretation of the individual.

As evidence, I read Shortline and Narrow Gauge Gazette religiously, I cannot tell you how many different layouts have been featured on the same segments of D&RGW lines, I cannot tell you how many different layouts have featured a segment, say like the Ophir loop, yet none of the layouts have been anywhere near identical, in fact far from it, each layout is singularly unique from the other.

Thats due to the interpretational "freelancing" that occurs when we take any existing condition and impose our own personal take on it, its all "made up", regardless of how prototypical the modelers strove to be. Every model railroad is a "made up" line, made up from real world source to fit a modelers given condition, made up from real world sources to express the modelers personal preferences and skills, its STILL all made up! so its all "freelanced".

OK... light the flamethrowers! but play nice...

 

[TheK4Kid]

My layout is totally freelanced.
The only theme to it is so fat it's all PRR.I may put in a NKP mixture later on since the NKP did cros PRR in my hometown of Ft wayne Indiana.
I do what I want and I have fun doing it!

TheK4Kid

Working on the Pennsy 

 

 

[PA&ERR]

Didn't there use to be a Private Road Name SIG at one time? Anybody know what happened to it?

-George