FORUM CLINIC: Operating like the prototype

[SilverSpike]

Keep 'em coming Joe!

Glad to hear that the water works issue has been resolved, two weeks between updates on this thread was way to long!

As usual, and once again you keep me motivated and intrigued with the finer details of model railroad operations.

Thanks and cheers,

Ryan

 

[devils]

Keep it coming Joe, this is providing a whole stack of inspiration for the layout we are planning for our club and the Layout design group site link was a help too.

Thanks again Paul

[jfugate]

NEW CLINIC POST!

TOPIC THIS POST: Helper Operations

Read this forum clinic post by clicking here.

Finally, another installment in the series, now that we no longer are trying to make model railroading a water sport.

[n2mopac]

Now that I'm finally done bailing water out of my basement, I hope to post the next installment of this clinic in the next day or so.

Bailing water? Did I miss something?

Ron

No kidding, you missed something. See my web site ...

Oh man! That really stinks! Sounds like recovery is progressing well though. I hope the city covers all of  your repair as they should. If not, I hope you have flood insurance.

Ron

[dehusman]

Giving a "work between" to a following train if they are really both going in the same direction is very dependent on the railroad and their individual rules.  Some railroads frown on this type of operation (especially if its for any distance).

Also some railroads give every train regardless of where they operate a "track warrant", but in CTC they would get a "track warrant for bulletins" which is similar to a clearance in TT&TO days, it doesn't convey any authority, just lists the bulletins the train gets (bulletins being informational messages such a slow orders, gangs working and other information affectin ght eoperation of the trains.

Dave H.

[btransue]

Now that I'm finally done bailing water out of my basement, I hope to post the next installment of this clinic in the next day or so.

Are you going to post your water bill - after the city was nice enough to help you clean your layout and driveway?

Hopefully everything is getting back to normal.

[jfugate]

Now that I'm finally done bailing water out of my basement, I hope to post the next installment of this clinic in the next day or so.

Bailing water? Did I miss something?

Ron

No kidding, you missed something. See my web site ...

[BRAKIE]

Of course a lot depends on the railroad..What you are calling train procures we called WHEEL REPORTS and WORK ORDERS...On the PRR a Form 19 could be use as special instructions for handling special moves such as moving MOW cars say from MP115.8 to MP132.4.These types of moves was usually done by locals or extras and was govern by work rules and operation rules..The good part is if these MOW cars had steel under frames then we could place them behind the locomotive consist if not then they had to be place in front of the cabin.Of course some conductors would place these cars behind the cabin..This was done to save moves and was still within the rules.A red flag would protect the end of the train.

[n2mopac]

Now that I'm finally done bailing water out of my basement, I hope to post the next installment of this clinic in the next day or so.

Bailing water? Did I miss something?

Ron

[jfugate]

Now that I'm finally done bailing water out of my basement, I hope to post the next installment of this clinic in the next day or so.

[SilverSpike]

So far I am injoying this clinic very much!

 

I agree, Joe's clinics are the highlight of the MR forum.

Keep them coming Joe!

[Railfan Alex]

So far I am injoying this clinic very much!

[jfugate]

TOPIC THIS POST: Train Procedures

Read this forum clinic post by clicking here.

[WSOR 3801]

It all depends on the Railroad.

On our outfit, with no passing siding long enough to hold a train, we get a line 2 usually:

2.  Proceed from Yard Limit Horicon South to Yard Limit Slinger North on main track.

If there is another job coming out right after us, we both get line 4 Work Between, with a line 11.

11  Between YL Hor S and YL Slin N make all movements at restricted speed.  Limits occupied by train.

This doesn't cost us much time as all but 2 miles of this territory is 10 mph.  Restricted speed is able to stop within 1/2 the range of vision, don't hit anything, look for broken rail, not exceeding 20 mph (15 on some roads).

We also get a line 16 Track bulletins in effect.  If there are none, we write "None" in the space provided.

When we are coming towards our yards, we call about 30 mins. out, to find out if we should hold outside of town, drag our feet, or come right in.  Sometimes we call at the yard board, sometimes further out.  Sometimes you find out about "bonus moves" at this point, but usually 5 mins before you try to get off the train.

In the CTC I run over (CN using USOR rules), things are different.  You get a TGBO (Tabular General Bulletin Order), which shows all the foremen out working, any messages (watch out for ribbon rail laying along side main track, etc.), and any speed restriction not in the timetable.  If the signal system doesn't work right, or you need headroom or to tie back on to your train, you get talked by the signal if needed.  "WSOR 3801 South, after stopping, you may proceed past the signal displaying Stop indication, hand throw the swich at Grand Ave, and proceed south, CN main to WSOR main, restoring the switch to power."  Then you have to repeat the whole thing back over the radio.  Then do what needs to be done.  If emergency type work needs to be done, the foreman gets a Track and Time.  "Foreman Smith has track and time between South Waukesha switch no and Grand Ave switch no until released.  DS."  The switch yes/no is the area around the switch between the signals.

It seems overwhelming at first, but when you do it every day, it becomes second nature.  You know you work too much when you call out traffic signals.  "Clear"  "Diverging Clear"  "All red, that'll do"

[cpeterson]

Love the new clinic, would love a pdf version later to refer to if possible.

[BRAKIE]

Joe,Remember a track warrant *may* not take you all the way to a yard but to a given CP or mile post depending on the yard inbound tracks..Also under CTC no track warrants is needed EXCEPT for SPECIAL moves because train movement is govern by the DS using signals.

What are these special moves? Hi/Rail vehicles,Burro cranes,MOW  equipment working a section of track,reverse switching moves that require entering another block WITH PERMISSION to pass a absolute stop for head room,permission by a stop indication etc..

A track warrant can also be issued with a time limit.

Track Form 23A Permit number 40 dated 08-30-06 issued to L49 At West Benson at 12:02Pm.From West Benson to East Benson single to single and back to your train.Good till 12:30PM

Dispatcher Lowery

All of this adds realism to our operations.

[johncolley]

I would think that in the pre-radio days ('47-'50) that I model, the last operator before Roseburg would have OS'ed the train so the YM Roseburg would know when to expect it in and would have the siding or A/D track lined up and ready for an inbound that would indeed have to "clear main track at last named point." Happy railroading, eh? jc5729

[SilverSpike]

Hmmm ... no questions so far?

I guess you're all so stunned by the latest post that you're speechless.

(Or maybe you're thinking what bunch of $%^#$#@?)

Hey Joe, just gettin around to the forum since yesterday. I am sure it is all well and good!

Your attention to prototype detail and prototype operations is certainly one I am striving to match, and your clinics continue to point me in the right direction. Thanks once again!

Cheers,

Ryan

[jfugate]

Hmmm ... no questions so far?

I guess you're all so stunned by the latest post that you're speechless.

(Or maybe you're thinking what bunch of $%^#$#@?)

[jfugate]

TOPIC THIS POST: Track Warrants

Read this forum clinic post by clicking here.

Yay, finally got a chance to add the next installment to this clinic. Post your comments here in this thread.

[BRAKIE]

Ron,Your are correct if you follow the rules..However..I know several guys that uses real 10 minutes as one hour without braking it down into "scale" time.On my industrial switching layouts I use 15-1 thats 15 real minutes to one wee hour.60 minutes would be 4 wee hours to my HO crews..

This 10-1 works especially well and doesn't put the rush on the yard masters like your mention 6:1 ratio..Remember there is NO law/rule stating you need to break real time to scale time ratios.

 

I didn't want to come off like the ratio police. I was just trying to avoid what might cause confusion to some by clarifying the meaning of the ratio.

Ron

 

Thats cool..

[n2mopac]

Ron,Your are correct if you follow the rules..However..I know several guys that uses real 10 minutes as one hour without braking it down into "scale" time.On my industrial switching layouts I use 15-1 thats 15 real minutes to one wee hour.60 minutes would be 4 wee hours to my HO crews..

This 10-1 works especially well and doesn't put the rush on the yard masters like your mention 6:1 ratio..Remember there is NO law/rule stating you need to break real time to scale time ratios.

 

I didn't want to come off like the ratio police. I was just trying to avoid what might cause confusion to some by clarifying the meaning of the ratio.

Ron

[BRAKIE]

Ron,Your are correct if you follow the rules..However..I know several guys that uses real 10 minutes as one hour without braking it down into "scale" time.On my industrial switching layouts I use 15-1 thats 15 real minutes to one wee hour.60 minutes would be 4 wee hours to my HO crews..

This 10-1 works especially well and doesn't put the rush on the yard masters like your mention 6:1 ratio..Remember there is NO law/rule stating you need to break real time to scale time ratios.

 

[n2mopac]

Joe,As food for thought I like 10-1 ratio.Thats 10 real minutes equal 1 scale hour..Why? Because I find this gives the YMs more working time to build or break down trains..Of course SPEED must be adjusted to match the scale time.I found on a large layout 40smph for freights an 45smph for passenger trains seems about right. A down and dirty way of tracking scale time can be done with a  standard wall clock with a red tick mark every ten mintues...

I believe what you describe here would be not a 10:1 but rather a 6:1 fastclock ratio (60 scale minutes:10 real minutes = 6:1). Both sides of a ratio must be rendered in the same measurement as opposed to 10 real minutes:1 scale hour.

Ron

 

[johncolley]

Joe, et al: It seems to me that the way you are set up either part would be a good interesting layout. The focus of operation would be a little different, but the upper level could be mainline run from Eu-Me and Me-Eu with maybe a small staging yard where the Coos Bay branch takes off. For a different approach, a similar staging yard could be a source/destination for a Coos Bay branchline layout. And either one would be a fun entity in itself, just a slightly different focus of operations, eh? Gee, I love this hobby! jc5729

[jfugate]

Bob:

So if I understand this correctly, the layout room is upstairs and the stairs come up into the room, right?

If so, this means it's possible to have the stairs come up into the room at one side and to run a narrow shelf along one edge of the stairs. If the stairs are say, 3 feet wide, having a 6" - 12" shelf along one side wouldn't be too bad and if it helps the layout could continue right across the stairs. If you don't put any turnouts in that part of the layout design and lay the track especially carefully on that section, you will be able to minimize any maintenance needs on that section.

Another consideration with stairs into a layout room is keep in mind the need to bring in lumber later for layout construction. If you place the stairs with that in mind as well, you won't create a situation later where you could kick yourself because you made it nearly impossible to get lumber up there!

Otis McGhee has a well done example of stairs coming up into a layout space. Here's a link to a closeup of his plan with the stairs, and then a link to the overall plan in the room (stairs are in the bottom middle-right). Notice Otis is doing a double-decked mushroom design and the upper deck goes right over the stairs like nothing's there.

[Bob Hayes]

Joe,

I'm in the process of designing a garage & shop area with a layout room above.  Looks like the footprint will be 30x60 or so.  Depends on where the stairs go. The upstairs will loose the area for the stairs, bathroom, and some cabinets for microwave & refrigerator.  Also need a spot for paint booth & workbench, probably under the layout.  Stairs cannot go on ends as the garage doors are on one end, and a large access door is on the other.  First plan was to have the stairs running across the middle, so as to divide the room into two parts.  That made planning easier, but left me with several 20' long blobs.  If I put the stairs along the side, there are no obstructions in the middle, but I end up with a lot of 60' runs.  I want switching areas with a good distance between them.  I like long trains(40-60 cars), and UP/BNSF joint operation with a little D&RGW thrown in.  I like David Barrow's "sincere" layout designs but not his 18" wide dominos(they use too much wood). There is an additional area that can be used for staging, however layout height may be a problem.  Access for this area is at one corner.  Any suggestions?

Bob Hayes

[BRAKIE]

Joe,As food for thought I like 10-1 ratio.Thats 10 real minutes equal 1 scale hour..Why? Because I find this gives the YMs more working time to build or break down trains..Of course SPEED must be adjusted to match the scale time.I found on a large layout 40smph for freights an 45smph for passenger trains seems about right. A down and dirty way of tracking scale time can be done with a  standard wall clock with a red tick mark every ten mintues...

[SilverSpike]

Another great installment as always!

Thanks Joe!

[jfugate]

TOPIC THIS POST: Adding more complexity to the operations

Read this forum clinic post by clicking here.