FORUM CLINIC: Operating like the prototype

[jfugate]

How about a new clinic - Operating like the Prototype ...

However, I would be inclined to post the installments over on my own forum under the operations section. That way, I would not have to continually bump it like I have to do here, I can easily post images without issues, and I could even post some short video clips if I want.

What do you think? Is this a topic anyone would be interested in?

People could post comments over here in this thread if they like. You can read my forum without joining it, but you would have to sign up over there to post comments. If we keep any questions and discussion over here then you wouldn't have to join any new forums if you didn't want to.

Thoughts?

[SilverSpike]

Sounds good to me Joe!

Any time you want to share with us your vast model railroading expereince I am "ALL EYES AND EARS."

Have you already started this clinic on your own forum?

Cheers,

Ryan

 

[Dave Vollmer]

Absolutely.  Sign me up.

[IRONROOSTER]

Sounds like a good idea to me.  I would prefer to keep it here.  I don't mind signing up for your forum, but I usually don't have the time to check more than one forum.

Which eras are you planning to cover?

Enjoy
Paul

[WickhamMan]

Another awesome idea from Joe. Just give us a link to the clinis and I'm there.

Thanks.

 

[NS2591]

I'll be there. I'm trying to build my layout so that it can be run by prototype practices. the hardest part is I'm not exactly sure how to use car cards and waybills. As for it being here or on your forum, It doesn't matter to me.

[tstage]

I am always up to learning about prototype operations.  That's something that is and will always applicable to my layout.  Joe, will you be concentrating more on modern (ca. 1970-present) prototype operations vs. older (pre-1970) operations?

Tom

[jfugate]

Sounds like a good idea to me.  I would prefer to keep it here.  I don't mind signing up for your forum, but I usually don't have the time to check more than one forum.

Which eras are you planning to cover?

Enjoy
Paul

Paul:

I hear you. I think what I would do is as I post installments over there, I would add a post to this thread and include a link so the content is only one click away. That way you wouldn't have to crawl my forum over there to find it, you could just stay here on this forum and this thread would be "grand central station" to the content ... I would just host it over there so I can control the formatting and presentation easier.

I'll start working on postings and we'll give it a try ... think of it as an experiment.

I'm going to be covering Track Warrants, which is a more modern method of granting authorization for trains to move that works especially well for model railroads. I'll be using my own HO Siskiyou Line as an example. Later we can also discuss Timetable and Train Order (pre 1970) if you like, since I have some experience operating T&TO as well on a model railroad, having done it as a visiting operator to several other layouts.

[ShadowNix]

Great idea, Joe.  But I concur with Paul...keep it here.  I also would request you split it up by eras, or at least inform when such specific operations were used.  Otherwise us noob's will be operating our 1950's train in the 1980's instructions.... LOL. Anyways, I look forward to your post.  Perhaps email Bergie and see if he can sticky it.

 

Brian

[Anonymous]

Joe;

Having observed this hobby for over forty years now I can tell you this much:  the insertion of the word "operation" into a phrase is automatically going to be a Bru-ha-ha Breeder; it is almost always immediately followed by weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth.

I will admit that I am more of a railfan operator than a how-many-cars-can-I-shove-into-the-spurs-on-this-particular-trip operator; I prefer watching trains roll although I do, upon occasions, enjoy watching a peddler drop and pick up cars at an online industry; call me impatient if you will but I get just a little nausious of that after four solid hours of it.  I simply don't orient my railroad around that particular function - I know of some who do.  If operation is your bag then have at it; don't tell - or imply - that I am out of the mainstream of model railroading if I don't share your enthusiasm.  Discussion of prototype operation quickly degenerates - at least in silent opinions if not in audible verbage - into rationalizations of "IDIOT(S)"and "BLASPHEMER(S).  I am sure, at this particular moment in time, there are literally dozens out there reading this post shouting those exact invectives at me for my I-don't-enjoy-operations heresy and further advocating that I should be called to account before the Spanish Inquistion!!! This attitude is usually followed with statements like, "The XYZ railroad ................"; I have encountered this on numerous occasions and I am sure you have also.

Operations - and operations principles and procedures - are not written in blood, a fact lost on more than one model rail.  "I am an operator and if you don't operate your layout the way I operate my layout then you obviously are not really serious about operations!!!"  I enjoy reading "Trains of Thought" but T.K. is a legend in his own mind!!!  

Now, there are some hard facts of life regarding (prototype) railroad operation and I try to run/operate my ABC railroad on sound operational principles and practices, but it is the ABC railroad and not the PDQ Railroad, or the XYZ Railroad, or the Sneaky Falls, Regurgitation, and Pacific Railroad.  Being a freelancer (a heretical word which is usually accompanied by another explative, "lazy") you will almost never hear me say "The 'real' railroads never or always did or did not do something" specific because I really don't know (and, with a few exception, don't really care) whether these "real" railroads never or always did or did not do something specific; such advocacy carries the implication that any railroad which does something differently is not a "real" railroad!!!  My ABC Railroad may not have a 'real' corporate identity but it is singularly unique in its requirements and its operational policies and procedures is going to be singularly unique.

I'll follow your forum but I'm going to keep my boots off of the floor and my tongue in my cheek - that's to keep from choking off spasms of laughter - while I do; I am extremely curious to see if you can moderate this topic to keep it from degenerating into a virtual donnybrook.

[jfugate]

TOPIC THIS POST: Railfan versus Engineer

Read this forum clinic post by clicking here.

Post your comments or questions here in this thread on the MR forum. This keeps the forum clinic thread itself free of any distracting posts or digressions.

[Railfan Alex]

***** (Five Stars)

Great Idea!!!!!

[GearDrivenSteam]

Sounds great Joe. Will you be representing both diesel as well as steam?

[ShadowNix]

VERY, nice, Joe.  Keep it coming!!! 

Brian

[WickhamMan]

Nice start. I'm looking forward to the rest.

 

 

[jfugate]

Sounds great Joe. Will you be representing both diesel as well as steam?

Actually, prototype operations is more related to time and era, than the equipment per-se. Many of the concepts will apply to any era, and the era-specific topics will be post 1970 track warrants. Later, we can expand the discussion to include pre-1970 Timetable & Train Orders.

But T&TO operation can get really involved, so saving it for last will be best since people will have all the other less complex discussion under their belts first.

[howmus]

Sounds like another winner, Joe!  I will definately watch this thread as I am just about ready to start some operations with some friends and have no clue of where to start.......

[tstage]

Joe,

I really like it so far.  I appreciate the discussion/explanation on the difference between the railfan and engineer modeler and how that reflects in their approach to modeling and enjoying their layout.  I look forward to the upcoming installments.

Tom

[MIKE0659]

Great idea Joe. I went and read your first one and you're doing a great job.

One suggestion you might want to work in someplace though, if I may?

Remind everyone to name every single track and siding on their railroad. If you spend any time around the prototype, you will find they do it. Even if it isn't the official railroad name, the local guys have names for everything. Every track has a name, even if it is just a number, it is still named.

Some names are rooted in the past and have no link to what is there now. The "New Siding" that is over 70 years old. The "Turntable Lead" that hasn't led to a turntable for 30 years. The "Scale Track" that has no scale, at least for 20 years. But it's the name that has been used and everyone is familiar with them. The old heads pass them down to the new kids, and so forth.

It's a basic, but important component of operations. I'm guessing you know this, but I've run across many who don't.

Keep up the great work, I'm looking forward to reading the rest.

[jfugate]

TOPIC THIS POST: What do we mean by 'prototype operation'?

Read this forum clinic post by clicking here.

[ShadowNix]

Mike,

 

Great point on naming the sidings, etc.... I never new that.  Something fun I can let my kids help me with someday too!

Brian

Brian

[jfugate]

TOPIC THIS POST: Figuring out what trains to run

Read this forum clinic post by clicking here.

[electrolove]

Joe,

I really like this clinic.

I have the book Track Planning for Realistic Operation but it's so much in there so it's sometimes hard to read and understand.

You are explaining this in a way that is very easy to understand. I'm looking forward to the rest of this clinic.

BTW: Is this the same content that you will show us on the Prototype operation secrets DVD?

Thanks Joe

[Tom Bryant_MR]

I'm always willing to learn something.  I'm in.

Regards,

[Dave-the-Train]

Very good... but that yardmaster is way out of scale

[jfugate]

Joe, I really like this clinic. I have the book Track Planning for Realistic Operation but it's so much in there so it's sometimes hard to read and understand. You are explaining this in a way that is very easy to understand. I'm looking forward to the rest of this clinic. BTW: Is this the same content that you will show us on the Prototype operation secrets DVD? Thanks Joe

Electro:

Yes, this is essentially what will be in video volume 5 on DVD. The video, of course, will have video illustrations of all the points, and the video will include footage from an actual op session on my Siskiyou Line, and will include a bonus chapter that's an excursion of SP4449 down the model Siskiyou Line, using a  nicely detailed brass SP4449 with a Tsunami decoder.

Glad you are liking the info. I'm trying to take it slow so we don't bury people in too much info too soon.

[n2mopac]

Joe,

Thanks for starting this new clinic. You and I have written many times here, on your forum, and via email concerning operations and operating rules. It is a somewhat new area of interest to me. I have learned much from your insights in the past and I look forward to finding some new nuggets in this clinic. Each of your clinics here have been greatly valuable and this one is beginning with signs of the same. I look forward to following it closely.

Thanks for the insight on the railfan/engineer debate. I don't know why these two points of view always have to be at odds. Being newer to the hobby I have begun to make the real transformation from the pure railfan that I was when I started 10 years ago to a more deeply interested engineer. I still, however, enjoy just watching the trains run sometimes. These are two sides of the same coin and should be able to peacefully coexist.

Thanks again,

Ron

 

[BRAKIE]

Joe,Can  current  or past railroaders  join in on the discussion?

[jfugate]

Joe,Can  current  or past railroaders  join in on the discussion?

Absolutely. Have any insights you could share?

[jfugate]

Thanks for the insight on the railfan/engineer debate. I don't know why these two points of view always have to be at odds. Being newer to the hobby I have begun to make the real transformation from the pure railfan that I was when I started 10 years ago to a more deeply interested engineer. I still, however, enjoy just watching the trains run sometimes. These are two sides of the same coin and should be able to peacefully coexist.

Ron

Ron:

You have nailed my sentiments exactly on the whole railfan/engineer debate.

That's why my preferred operating scheme incorporates railfanning as a part -- and that's my preference for two-person crew operations. One person is the engineer, and he focuses on running the train the right speed, and keeps his eye on the locomotive. The other person, the conductor, converses with the dispatcher, and must watch the train as it runs.

So the conductor *has* to railfan the train! I know, it's a tough job, but somebody has to do it! Anytime I'm gettting a railfan urge, I like to volunteer to be the conductor ... and then I thoroughly enjoy *railfanning* the train!

You could say I'm firmly in the engineer camp, but with some definite railfan moments or leanings. Unlike the hard-case engineer, I also love to just watch trains run through really nice looking scenery -- which is more railfan than engineer. So I am fastidious about nice looking scenery. And my two person crews lets me run trains prototypically and railfan the train at the same time!