I have F units from Athearn (blue box and some older), Athearn Genesis and Stewart. I enjoy all of them and consider them all to look and run well. The old Athearns captured the F unit look but showed mold lines and many had poor paint jobs. Still, with a little work, they look good, are reliable and run well. I prefer the ones with metal sideframes as the newer ones with the plastic sideframe with add-on details will not take a sharp turn once the details are added.
The Stewarts have gone through many drive train changes and I don't know which ones are the best, they all seem to run well and they really look nice. Just have to detail them. I have some from every era, I think, and at least the bodies look to have stayed the same. It was called the most accurate F unit ever made and maybe it is. They were the first plastic F to offer every phase of F unit production from FT through F9's. I applaud their effort.
I have a couple of MRC F 7's from their platinum series and they are nicely detailed, have stainless grills but I suspect the accuracy is not as good as Stewart or Athearn. They just look alittle different. Also, you almost never see them for sale so making up a set is not easy.
Then came the Athearn Genesis line. I've bought a few and like their looks. I have yet to run any but I'm sure I'll be satisfied with their performance. Right out of the box, they have as much detail as any and rival brass in outward appearance.
I don't have any Broadway Limited F's but given their other products and the price that you have to pay, they are probably as good as brass, maybe better in some ways. I'm sure that I will own some of them at some point in time.
Of the ones that I have, it's a toss-up between the Stewarts and the Athearn Genesis as to which is my favorite. The Genesis are more ready to go but it's hard for me to say that I like either one more than the other. How bout the rest of you?
If it's sound that you want, I think you're stuck with BLI or the latest from Athearn Genesis. I have not taken that step yet and am more concerned with looks and performance. I'm not even DCC yet so I guess I'm alittle behind the times. Many of my engines are DCC ready but I don't have any of the rest of the requirements. Probably will get into it in time.
Bill
NOBODY YET!
It will be whoever does FL-9's first!!!
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
_________________________________________________________________
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Well, my fave is still the ol' Athearn bluebox Fs. The price is right, and removing/adding/modifying detail is fairly easy. If I botch a project, I have found that acquiring a new shell is both simple and inexpensive. The units with the heavy weight are nice pullers and smooth runners once broken in, and maintenance is simple. I have a customized GN F7 that can pull over 50 forty foot cars up a 3.5% grade.
I also own a few Stewarts which I really enjoy for their variety of types of F units and smooth operation. I have even modified a coupla Stewart shells to fit Athearn drives.
I do own an Intermountain kit, but have yet to get the puppy road worthy.
Lotsa good choices out there depending on what one wants to invest monetarily.
I have both Athern (blue box) and Stewart F units. I like them both. The Athern units are inexpensive and are good pullers.
JIM
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Colorado Front Range Railroad: http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/
David_Telesha wrote: NOBODY YET! It will be whoever does FL-9's first!!!
tstage wrote:The only F-unit I have is a Stewart FT A-B with a Lenz Gold decoder installed in it. It runs amaaaaazingly smooth and absolutely crawls. You're right, you do have to detail them but they are still very nice looking. The one chip in Stewart's armor is their paint jobs. It doesn't take much to ding or chip the paint.Tom
Do you know what drive system they are? I'd guess Kato but not sure. I have a later set of FT's for CB&Q and I'm not sure which drive system is used, maybe Beuler. It seems that all of them were excellent. Stewart might have done the best job in recreating the F units of anyone and among the best running as well. Just alittle work to dress them up and somewhat iffy paint jobs but all in all, very fine plastic models.
I think my favorite is the P1K F3s .... the shells are excellent, even if they have cast on grabs, the paint is top quality and the drive is sooooo smoooooth. Bang for buck you can't beat 'em.
The MEC F3 #672 pictured in my Avatar is a P1K, detailed with cast grabs shaved off and replaced with wire ones and some other bits and pieces, and fitted with a DH163AO decoder.
I also really like the Athearn Genesis ones - their great too, better detailed, but much more expensive of course, hence second place.
I really don't rate the Stewart models, the paint is poor on my MEC example to the extent that I'll probably end up stripping it and re-paint. The mechs OK, but not as good as the Athearn G or P1K.
I had an old Bachmann F7 once - its mech got robbed out for another project and I used the shell for paint practice. It was dreadful. Edit: reading another thread it was probably an F9 - but its still sucked ...
I think the Genesis Fs are by far the best available. I own a few of the Warbonnet F7s, and I think they are spectacular. The Highliner shells are REALLY close to having accurate dimensions. The nose looks great.
I expected more out of the BLI Warbonnet F7s, but those are terrible. I am glad I didn't hold out for those.
csmith9474 wrote:I expected more out of the BLI Warbonnet F7s, but those are terrible. I am glad I didn't hold out for those.
Just went to BLI's website and saw a picture of the SF F7s, and I agree, they don't look nearly as good as the Genesis F units. So I know who'll be getting my business for high quality F units.
http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/images/f7/production/atsf.jpg
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG10700
I think I made the right choice when I got my F3.
Darth Santa Fe wrote: csmith9474 wrote:I expected more out of the BLI Warbonnet F7s, but those are terrible. I am glad I didn't hold out for those. Just went to BLI's website and saw a picture of the SF F7s, and I agree, they don't look nearly as good as the Genesis F units. So I know who'll be getting my business for high quality F units. http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/images/f7/production/atsf.jpg http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG10700 I think I made the right choice when I got my F3.
I am happy they are doing another run of Warbonnet F7s finally. I think the Genesis Fs with sound are awesome. They really sound great.
jbangelfish wrote: David_Telesha wrote: NOBODY YET! It will be whoever does FL-9's first!!! Well, I had to look that one up in a diesel spotters guide. I don't see that anyone had them other than NH, so finding someone to make them might be difficult. Looks like a kitbash project would be the only way. I think Atlas made some FP7 or FP9's but you'd have to fabricate your own drive system. E units are A1A so if you could somehow shorten up an E unit chassis and modify an F unit B truck onto the front, you'd be about as close as you could get. Sounds like a challenge but I'm sure somebody could pull it off. Probably not me. I have ongoing projects that began almost 30 years ago. Bill
On the contrary, you left out Penn Central, Amtrak, Conrail, Metro North, CDOT, Maine Eastern, Morristown & Erie, Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley, and Adirondack Scenic Railroad....not to mention the commemorative Metro North New York Central scheme applied to 2 units, and at least 2 PC schemes, 2 Amtrak schemes, at least 3 or 4 Metro North schemes, combined with a service life of 1957-2006+ and a following in one of the more popular railroads out there (New Haven sells quite well, just ask Atlas and Life-Like) and you have a sure winner the rest of the civilized world knows about.
There's always somebody there to poo-poo an FL-9...its getting old folks...as is kitbashing a unit that should've been made yesterday...
None of these folks seemed dis-interested:
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2005121921124531754.jpg
jbangelfish wrote: I have F units from Athearn (blue box and some older), Athearn Genesis and Stewart. I enjoy all of them and consider them all to look and run well. The old Athearns captured the F unit look but showed mold lines and many had poor paint jobs. Still, with a little work, they look good, are reliable and run well. I prefer the ones with metal sideframes as the newer ones with the plastic sideframe with add-on details will not take a sharp turn once the details are added. The Stewarts have gone through many drive train changes and I don't know which ones are the best, they all seem to run well and they really look nice. Just have to detail them. I have some from every era, I think, and at least the bodies look to have stayed the same. It was called the most accurate F unit ever made and maybe it is. They were the first plastic F to offer every phase of F unit production from FT through F9's. I applaud their effort. Then came the Athearn Genesis line. I've bought a few and like their looks. I have yet to run any but I'm sure I'll be satisfied with their performance. Right out of the box, they have as much detail as any and rival brass in outward appearance. Of the ones that I have, it's a toss-up between the Stewarts and the Athearn Genesis as to which is my favorite. The Genesis are more ready to go but it's hard for me to say that I like either one more than the other. How bout the rest of you? If it's sound that you want, I think you're stuck with BLI or the latest from Athearn Genesis. I have not taken that step yet and am more concerned with looks and performance. I'm not even DCC yet so I guess I'm alittle behind the times. Many of my engines are DCC ready but I don't have any of the rest of the requirements. Probably will get into it in time. Bill
I have the older F units blue box Athearn, Stewarts F units , PK1 F units, Intermounain F units and off course several dozen Genesis F units. The Stewarts I have all are Kato drive and probably run as good as anything you can buy. The PK1 F units run very well also bit I use the drives only for power to the Highliner shells, since the PK1 shells are not detailed. The Intermountain is the best running current F unit for my money and the Genesis are the best in detail and fidelity to the prototype.
Most all of the F units available in the past few years run good and with a few exceptions. and are some of the best in the model world today.
And for the sound, the only way I would recommend is Soundtraxx in the Genesis units. It is great!~! Don't accept the sound in the installed Athearn. BLI is better for sure, but the model still has some problems.
All except the blue box models have a place in my model railroading.
As a famous man once said, " I never met an F unit I did't like! "
boxcar_jim wrote: I think my favorite is the P1K F3s .... the shells are excellent, even if they have cast on grabs, the paint is top quality and the drive is sooooo smoooooth. Bang for buck you can't beat 'em. The MEC F3 #672 pictured in my Avatar is a P1K, detailed with cast grabs shaved off and replaced with wire ones and some other bits and pieces, and fitted with a DH163AO decoder. I also really like the Athearn Genesis ones - their great too, better detailed, but much more expensive of course, hence second place. I really don't rate the Stewart models, the paint is poor on my MEC example to the extent that I'll probably end up stripping it and re-paint. The mechs OK, but not as good as the Athearn G or P1K. I had an old Bachmann F7 once - its mech got robbed out for another project and I used the shell for paint practice. It was dreadful.
I had an old Bachmann F7 once - its mech got robbed out for another project and I used the shell for paint practice. It was dreadful.
Yes, the Genesis line is pricey but they are so nice that it may be worth it.
Stewart paint is just so so and depends on the road that you are modeling. If you are lucky enough to need a simple paint scheme, they may fit the bill very nicely and as everyone mentions, they run great. I still believe that they may have the most accurate body of all.
I have a couple of old Bachman F9 shells that I painted for NP freight and was going to adapt them to Athearn drives. I never found a Bachman B unit. Anyway, my project was also rather dreadful and the decals look horrible. I painted flat black and did not learn til later that decals don't like flat paint. The shells are sitting in a shoebox and have been for 20 years.
Darth Santa Fe wrote:So far, Athearn Genesis. My Genesis SF Warbonnet F3A is the best looking and quietest running diesel I own. It's even quieter than my Atlas 8-40B, or Kato SD80MAC.
My favorite F units are my Stewart's. Half of the 18 units are older Kato drives and the rest are the newer ones. Stewart shells were always lacking in detail out of the box and it can be pleasurable to do all the detail work. Many of us, myself included, are becoming lazy in our modeling with all the fantastic RTR out now. The Intermountain/ Regal are not bad at all, but the Genesis is about the finest paint and detail of any yet. Genesis drives are good, don't think they are as great as the Stewart/ Kato's but they run smooth, pull well and so far haven't heard of ant chronic troubles. I am still turned off with BLI, especially after the WM F unit paint/ detail screwup. Others haven't been that impressed either.
So if you take the Kato drive and use the Highliner shell(Genesis) you can have the best F unit all around.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
tankertoad70 wrote: Well, my fave is still the ol' Athearn bluebox Fs. The price is right, and removing/adding/modifying detail is fairly easy. If I botch a project, I have found that acquiring a new shell is both simple and inexpensive. The units with the heavy weight are nice pullers and smooth runners once broken in, and maintenance is simple. I have a customized GN F7 that can pull over 50 forty foot cars up a 3.5% grade. I also own a few Stewarts which I really enjoy for their variety of types of F units and smooth operation. I have even modified a coupla Stewart shells to fit Athearn drives. I do own an Intermountain kit, but have yet to get the puppy road worthy. Lotsa good choices out there depending on what one wants to invest monetarily.
I haven't picked up any of the Intermountain units but they do look nice. They just don't seem as readily available. I buy almost everything from ebay.
Years ago, Tenshodo made some awful F units in brass. You can buy them now cheaper than plastic. Hallmark had some too and I had a set of early ones (FT's) that I had thought I'd use for GN. They were actually made to be AT&SF and I eventually sold them. I didn't care for them but the buyer was very happy with them. I think they got better in later runs.
It seems that overall most guys are favoring the Athearn Genesis line and it's not hard to see why. They look great, offer a variety of F units and everyone raves about how they run. The paint is sure nicer than the old blue boxes and with the detailing nearly complete out of the box, it's not hard to see why they are so popular.
I have more F units than any other engine (42 of them at last count and I've probably sold that many off as well) so they must be my favorite engines. Their versatility is part of the appeal for me and I think their styling was also great. Basically, the FT was responsible for the demise of the steam engine which is sad but a business fact. A four unit set could do what a large steam engine could do for a lot less money and without stopping for hundreds of miles.
Modeling the 50's, they fit just about any road that I'd care to model. I can't choose a clear winner as to being a favorite for who made them. For ease and appeal out of the box, it would probably be Athearn Genesis. For the best look in body shape, maybe Stewart. For the best bang for the buck, probably the old blue boxes. Nothin really wrong with any of them.
Thanks to all
David_Telesha wrote: jbangelfish wrote: David_Telesha wrote: NOBODY YET! It will be whoever does FL-9's first!!! Well, I had to look that one up in a diesel spotters guide. I don't see that anyone had them other than NH, so finding someone to make them might be difficult. Looks like a kitbash project would be the only way. I think Atlas made some FP7 or FP9's but you'd have to fabricate your own drive system. E units are A1A so if you could somehow shorten up an E unit chassis and modify an F unit B truck onto the front, you'd be about as close as you could get. Sounds like a challenge but I'm sure somebody could pull it off. Probably not me. I have ongoing projects that began almost 30 years ago. Bill On the contrary, you left out Penn Central, Amtrak, Conrail, Metro North, CDOT, Maine Eastern, Morristown & Erie, Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley, and Adirondack Scenic Railroad....not to mention the commemorative Metro North New York Central scheme applied to 2 units, and at least 2 PC schemes, 2 Amtrak schemes, at least 3 or 4 Metro North schemes, combined with a service life of 1957-2006+ and a following in one of the more popular railroads out there (New Haven sells quite well, just ask Atlas and Life-Like) and you have a sure winner the rest of the civilized world knows about. There's always somebody there to poo-poo an FL-9...its getting old folks...as is kitbashing a unit that should've been made yesterday... None of these folks seemed dis-interested: http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2005121921124531754.jpg
Didn't show up in my book. I'm not trying to poo-poo anything, just an observation, albeit an incorrect one. OK, see if you can talk someone into making FL9's. P2k and others seem to be making some of the less common things such as E units painted black widow. This would be a bit different and require a whole new engine. NH is certainly a popular road but it's not one of the biggies like UP or ATSF. Has a brass company ever made one? They have made some that were quite rare.
jbangelfish wrote:Very nice Tom: Do you know what drive system they are? I'd guess Kato but not sure. I have a later set of FT's for CB&Q and I'm not sure which drive system is used, maybe Beuler. It seems that all of them were excellent. Stewart might have done the best job in recreating the F units of anyone and among the best running as well. Just alittle work to dress them up and somewhat iffy paint jobs but all in all, very fine plastic models. Bill
Very nice Tom:
Bill,
jbangelfish wrote: Darth Santa Fe wrote: csmith9474 wrote:I expected more out of the BLI Warbonnet F7s, but those are terrible. I am glad I didn't hold out for those. Just went to BLI's website and saw a picture of the SF F7s, and I agree, they don't look nearly as good as the Genesis F units. So I know who'll be getting my business for high quality F units. http://www.broadway-limited.com/products/images/f7/production/atsf.jpg http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG10700 I think I made the right choice when I got my F3. I am surprised by that one. I thought BLI did everything first class. Photos that I've seen of their E units looked very nice but I have not had one in hand. It seems that overall most guys are favoring the Athearn Genesis line and it's not hard to see why. They look great, offer a variety of F units and everyone raves about how they run. The paint is sure nicer than the old blue boxes and with the detailing nearly complete out of the box, it's not hard to see why they are so popular. I have more F units than any other engine (42 of them at last count and I've probably sold that many off as well) so they must be my favorite engines. Their versatility is part of the appeal for me and I think their styling was also great. Basically, the FT was responsible for the demise of the steam engine which is sad but a business fact. A four unit set could do what a large steam engine could do for a lot less money and without stopping for hundreds of miles. Thanks to all Bill
I agree with you about the popularity of the F units and I do not actually know how many I have at this time. If I started to count them, it might stop me from buying more.
The BLI pictures show the protruding number board inserts. They should be recessed into the number boards. The grills can be fixed since they tend to expand differently than the plastic. I was surprised they would publish the picture since it is not good.
The rest of the unit looks OK and the sound is the same as the E8's so it should sound good.
jbangelfish wrote: Oops: Didn't show up in my book. I'm not trying to poo-poo anything, just an observation, albeit an incorrect one. OK, see if you can talk someone into making FL9's. P2k and others seem to be making some of the less common things such as E units painted black widow. This would be a bit different and require a whole new engine. NH is certainly a popular road but it's not one of the biggies like UP or ATSF. Has a brass company ever made one? They have made some that were quite rare. Bill
Oops:
OK..glad you aren't an FL-9 poo-pooer.. There has been much buzz about the FL-9's and I've done my part helping it along...considering the popularity of the FL-9 its a travesty it has not been done in plastic mass-production. On Page 6 of the February 2004 Model Railroader, there is a Most Wanted poll in which the FL-9 scores 7th on a list of 10 unit...considering that could've been anything else, that speaks volumes about the FL-9. The B-A1A wheelbase is a non-issue as Canadian Model Trains is offering a CPA24-5 (in New Haven too) on the same B-A1A type set up. Its frustrating getting the manufacturers to see things the way they are; beyond the big "holy 13" road names. Despite all the aforementioned, that not mentioned, 3 sold out NH DL-109 runs, 3/4 NH PA-1 runs sold out (with the most recent not-yet-sold out run in May 06), and Atlas making models of the NH NE-6 in every scheme the NH slapped on their NE-6 cabooses, they still shrug the FL-9 off, with no reasonable explanation.
There have in fact been a couple runs of FL-9's done in brass, and you guessed it -- despite being out of my and many other's price ranges, they sold out. The most recent was done by OMI and were beautys, but I wouldn't spend $700 on a locomotive on my budget and niether would most people -- especially when I can use 5-6 FL-9's...2/3 New Haven (orig), 1 Metro north Beachball, and 2 CDOT units (NH Mc Ginnis scheme) with the numbers 2024 and 2026. They aren't very rare units....as any railfan in this the most populated region in the US, could tell you, 60 units roaming around all those carriers made them ubiquitus (sp) in this region -- combined with the fact anyone alive 1957 to this very day could've seen/ can see right now, FL-9's in active passenger revenue service.
My Stewart F3 runs nicer than my newer Atlas models, and it can PULL. Detail isn't the greatest, but it does look nice. But Stewarts are pricey- I got my CGW F3 AB (B is a dummy) for about $110 with shipping. Then a power chassie for the F3B is $65, so I'll have $175 in each A/B set. I don't think I'll have too many Stewarts at that price.
I'm going to get getting an ABBA set of P1K F3s now that they've got 'em in CGW
I'm gonna get a few intermountain FP7As and F7Bs now that they've got 'em in CGW
Still waiting for Athearn Genesis to release undecorated F units or CGW F units.
I've got a first run Atlas FP7 from around 1975 that runs worse than an Athearn BB. It died a few months ago.
I suspect I'll get a few BB F7s to help "get the railroad running" without spending too much ($30 for undec F7 A or B)
Nobody makes my favorite F-unit - in plastic, brass, pot metal or compressed cow chips. I don't have one. In fact, with my present prototype, I don't even have a favorite diesel-electric. I run center-cab diesel-hydraulic hood units, plus one with a slightly off-center cab,
Even if I planned to change to a U. S. prototype (which I don't) my choice would be pre/merger N&W - all hood units. Simply put, I don't need and don't want an F unit as such.
I do use a couple of train set F units as pushers in hidden storage. They would be just as effective for the purpose if I removed and discarded the shells. They came as yard sale specials (courtesy of my sister) with no pedigree. When they die, I'll replace them with some other yard sale junk.
Chuck
bogp40 wrote: My favorite F units are my Stewart's. Half of the 18 units are older Kato drives and the rest are the newer ones. Stewart shells were always lacking in detail out of the box and it can be pleasurable to do all the detail work. Many of us, myself included, are becoming lazy in our modeling with all the fantastic RTR out now. The Intermountain/ Regal are not bad at all, but the Genesis is about the finest paint and detail of any yet. Genesis drives are good, don't think they are as great as the Stewart/ Kato's but they run smooth, pull well and so far haven't heard of ant chronic troubles. I am still turned off with BLI, especially after the WM F unit paint/ detail screwup. Others haven't been that impressed either. So if you take the Kato drive and use the Highliner shell(Genesis) you can have the best F unit all around.
I like the Kato Drive from the Stewarts and since the Stewarts did not have the stainless grills or details that the Highliners have, I just used the drives from the Stewarts but not the shell. When the Stewarts first came out, I purchased a few ABBA sets powered and got a few more later on at bargain prices. After the Highliner B shells came out, I started the switch, but the B units came out about ten years before the A unit.
I believe the Intermountain drive system is just as good and is still available. I purchased a bunch of the PK1 F unit drives also when they were blown out by Trainworld for $20 each . You had to buy both the A and B unit for about $40, but both were powered. The drive from the PK1 is super and where can you buy anything that runs that well for $20.
The Genesis units sold as RTR are the best overall in looks and detail, but the Kato drive is a much better drive system. I don't have any of the new Stewarts / Bower, but they were basically a copy of the Kato drive and ran good also if I remember correctly.
dingoix wrote: My Stewart F3 runs nicer than my newer Atlas models, and it can PULL. Detail isn't the greatest, but it does look nice. But Stewarts are pricey- I got my CGW F3 AB (B is a dummy) for about $110 with shipping. Then a power chassie for the F3B is $65, so I'll have $175 in each A/B set. I don't think I'll have too many Stewarts at that price. [ Still waiting for Athearn Genesis to release undecorated F units or CGW F units.
[
The only way to get the A unit is by buying the Highliner shell. Highliner sells the undecorated shells and Athearn uses the same shells for decorated units. They don't seem to compete directly. You can purchase the Athearn drive units if you prefer them from Horizen. I did pick up two of the Genesis drives without shells for replacement parts for the other Genesis drives. The come in black or silver tanks and trucks.