New QSI upgrade chip - 6/30 update

[tstage]

Crandell,

That's entirely possible - and a thought that has crossed my mind. I've tried both the OPS and programming mode. The CV2 Fine Adjustment is supposed to be performed in OPS mode, as suggested by the manufacturer.

The first thing they have you do is to change the locomotive from Regulated Throttle Control (default) to Standard Throttle Control. Then you go in Program on the Main and change CVs 49 and 56. Next you are told to "set your throttle to the 128 speed step range and advance throttle speed to speed step 8". You then increase and decrease CV2 values until the locomotive starts and just stops, respectively. It's at the increase and decreasing part that my locomotive doesn't seem to want to respond. And, as you suggested Crandell, it seems that the inputs are not "taking".

I just e-mailed Tony @ TTE. I'm hoping he might have some insight into all this. Crandell, thanks for your willingness to suggest the obvious. [:)]

Tom

[davekelly]

Why is it that I get the feeling that the solution will be so simple that all of us will say "duh"?

Thanks for starting this thread Tom, I'm sure there are many more folks out there running into the same thing.

[sledgehammer]

that is weird tom I can do that with mine and it tells me the scale speed of my loco and keeps going. the other thin you mentioned is that you can barely hear the voice, On mine it muts the loco sounds in half and then the voice says it s thing and then it returns the loco back to it full sound.

on thing I have notice for my 8-40c , is if I change the cv numbers when the train is moving they do nothing until I stop the train. Also the voice only works when the train is not moving when you change the cv numbers.

Im going to look throught the manual tonight to see if youcan make the voice louder.

[tstage]

Derrick,

F10 on my Power Cab responds exactly how you described. But even when the engine chuff mutes, it's still somewhat difficult to hear the numbers. I had originally reduced the volume for the chuff because it was too loud. There should be a way to increase the volume for the scale speed without having to increase the overall volume to the chuff. Anyone know?

Tom

[tstage]

Next segment...

Got a quick response from Tony @ Tony's Train Exchange this morning. Tony suggested putting the old chip back in and verifying the findings - an idea that I had considered doing. He also said that he will try and duplicate the issue at the shop.

I'll report back later after I've had a chance to try things out at home tonight. (Oooooo....the tension mounts..)

Tom

[selector]

I have heard that a chip can be locked, too. I don't suppose, at the risk of stating something obvious once more, that these chips are shipped locked?

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

I have heard that a chip can be locked, too. I don't suppose, at the risk of stating something obvious once more, that these chips are shipped locked?

Another viable possibility. Crandell, I'm just thinking this through. If what you suggest were indeed the case, would you then not be able to change ANY CV settings?

Like Dave Kelly, I hoping that there is just going to be a "Well, duh!" solution to all this. I also hope that this thread will somehow be helpful to others down the line. I'll keep you all posted...

Tom

[DigitalGriffin]

Tom,

I'm taking a real stab at this as I don't have the new operators manual. But try this.

1. Reset your chip. Write 128->CV49, 255->CV50, 113->CV56 (You will get 3 hoots)
2. Reprogram your long address on programming track
3. Reprogram your BEMF drive as specified in the sheet that came with your new chip
4. Read Section 3.15 of QSI programming manual (Page 51/184) to make a > speed curve w/o reprogramming speed tables Set Bit 4 of CV29 to "1", Set values 2 to 7->CV 25. (7 is the highest fast start curve)


If that doesn't work you may have to redo your speed table as specified in 6.2 (page 116/184) in the QSI DCC manual Version 3.0

[tstage]

Thanks, Don. I'm going to tackle the easier things first but I will definitely leave that as a possible option. [:)]

Tom

[tstage]

Chapter 3...Partial good news [:)]

I swapped out the new chip for the old chip last night, as suggested by Tony of Tony's Train Exchange. The BLI MIke responded just like it had previously before installing the new upgrade chip.

I then pulled the old chip and reinstalled the new chip. Happily this time, the low-end speed response actually improved. [tup] Instead of the Mike stuck at a constant low-end speed from speed step 001 through speed step 21, the locomotive actually started to noticeably accelerate at around speed step 12. (Previously it wouldn't increase to it got to "22".) I can live with that.

However, the F10 issue is still there so the Power Cab "locks up" after I try using that function. (It's entirely possible that it's an NCE issue with the upgrade chip.) I'm also still unsure about the CV2 fine tune adjustment and whether I'm successfully changing anything or not. I e-mailed Tony again to report to him my findings this past evening. At least there's been a little progress with things.

I'll keep you all posted when I get word of anything. Thanks again for everyone's input. [:)]

Tom

[rexhea]

Tom: I would also like to thank you for reporting these finding. I have considered the upgrades, but have been putting it off until they have been in the field awhile.

REX

[NZRMac]

Tom is the Power Cab able to read the CV's on the programming track? If so read it, change it, and read it again, then you'll know if your having success or not??

Ken.

[sledgehammer]

Tom Heres some food for thought

You are adjusting the start up voltage setting by adjusting CV2. Now my question is this when does the starup votage end and the mid voltage take effect. Im thinking the mid voltage should play apart of this as well. Its a thought.

Now I looked in my manual for the verbal voice sound. ther is a mute setting on it somewhere. I just have to find it and how to set it. The manual i have has 175 pages in it. so It's going to take me sometime to find it.

You are still havin problems with the F10 key in the upgrade chip. Was this feature on the old chip,and did it work?

[rexhea]

Tom:
I am not sure that you have reset your new chip or not, but you should always try this to clean up any gremlins that may be running around. If you don't want to use the software method, do a manual using the wand or built-in switch as per instructions.

Also and after a reset, go to standard mode and then enter a 2 into CV29 for short address or a 34 into CV29 for long address. This will disable the speed tables. You shouldn't need to mess with the speed tables when you switch to RTC.

If this doesn't help, I would reset the chip and then start reading what the CV's are set at to see if one of them is not resetting. The JMRI computer software is ideal for this, but many throttles do allow a memory read on the programming track using Page mode.

FYI: A couple of years ago, I had asked why there was no MidV CV. The answer was that QSI had another way of controlling that voltage.

[tstage]

(Oooooo...Latest update?....Pass the chips...)

Received a response back this morning from Tony (Tony's Train Exchange) and Larry Larsen (NCE). Tony couldn't replicate the issue with the upgrade chip and Power Cab that he had there so he is going to ship out a replacement chip to see if that doesn't take care of the problem. (Siskel and Ebert award for Tony from me. [tup][tup]) Larry inquired if F10 worked on my old chip, which it does. (FYI: On the old chip, F10 is steam pop-off(?); on the upgrade chip, verbal speed.)

Well, it looks like in the meantime I may try some of the suggestions that a few of you have mentioned and see what happens. Thanks again for the ideas. You all have been great. [:)]

Tom

[scubaterry]

Tom - It will be interesting to see if the new chip makes a diff, As I mentioned my Hudson is doing the same thing after the upgrade?? I think it is either a bug common to the programming in the new chips or it is a simple CV setting that has escaped us at the moment. I will dig my Hudson out tomorrow and see if I can stumble onto something.
Terry[8D]

[M&PWJOHN]

Very informative! hey guys, it would probably help the rest of us out here reading this if we could find out what brand, type system you are using. I have an NCE system at home, and it has spoiled me for the Digitrax system at my MR club.

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mlwjohn

... I have an NCE system at home, and it has spoiled me for the Digitrax system at my MR club.

I was up much too early this morning, and must confess that I can't make sense of your statement.

-Crandell

[jondrd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

(Oooooo...Latest update?....Pass the chips...)

Received a response back this morning from Tony (Tony's Train Exchange) and Larry Larsen (NCE). Tony couldn't replicate the issue with the upgrade chip and Power Cab that he had there so he is going to ship out a replacement chip to see if that doesn't take care of the problem. [:)]

Tom

Another vendor to log into the "good guys" archive.
Interesting thread. I haven't gone the QSI chip upgrade route yet. Still putting decoders in my non BLI engines. Hope solution is forthcoming via replacement chip-hacking through the CV jungle can be sooo much fun.

Keep posting these DCC gremlins guys, of great help to neophytes like myself(turns on the light bulb over one's head much faster).

Jon [:)]

[scubaterry]

Tom - As I mentioned my BLI Hudson was doing the same thing. It would start moving at spd step 1 and crawl. It wouldn't go noticibly faster until about spd step 26 then it would acc normally.

I followed the directions on how to adj CV2 from the online blurb on the QSI page. The same procedure I think that came with the chip. I will just go thru what I did and see it it makes a diff with you. Mine now works fine. It acc from a crawl at spd Step 1 and is moving/acc normally about spd step 8 rather than 26.

You probably all ready have done this but here goes:

You first have to disable RTC. OPS mode: CV49=4, CV 56=0

Make sure throttle is in 128 spd step mode (I use digitrax DT-400)

Put loco on main line, throttle to spd step 8

OPS mode: increase CV2 (default 8) just until Loco starts to move(mine moved at 31)
OPS mode: decrease CV2 just until loco stops (mine stopped at 28)

CV2 is set

RTN to RTC CV49=4, CV56=1

My Hudson just started to move at step 31 and stopped moving at 28 which is where it is now set. They say you shouldn't have more than a difference of ten between the two numbers (start/stop)? It now seems to work normal for me. And I still have the great crawl at spd step 1. It does act kind of weird until you reset the RTC then all runs fine.

Hopefully this will work for you as well.
Terry[8D]

[rexhea]

Terry: That certainly is encouraging. Interesting how they adj for CV2. When you say step 27, do you mean the CV is set at 27?
EDIT: Oops! I understand what you mean now. THANKS
REX

[tstage]

Terry,

Thanks for looking into that. That's encouraging. [:)] Maybe it's an issue with my Power Cab. I(I guess I'll find out after I receive the replacement chip.)

I did reset the chip to the factory defaults last night, ran the F10 test again, and it locked up as before. I'm going to attempt to fine tune CV2 again tonight. I'll let you know what (or what doesn't) happen.

Tom

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NZRMac

Tom is the Power Cab able to read the CV's on the programming track? If so read it, change it, and read it again, then you'll know if your having success or not??

Ken.

Ken,

Yes, the Power Cab does read the CVs in Service mode. Like Crandell expressed earlier, I'm beginning to wonder myself if anything is really changing when I'm programming in OPS mode. [%-)] You just sort have to wondering if the solution is going to be something REALLY simple and/or REALLY stupid...

Tom

[scubaterry]

Tom - What was/is the deal with F10 again? I don't think I caught that.
Terry[8D]

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

Tom - What was/is the deal with F10 again? I don't think I caught that.
Terry[8D]

Terry,

With the QSI chip, after I press F10 to get the verbal speed feedback (which is SHIFT + PROG/ESC pressed simultaneously on the Power Cab), the Mike is locked in at its current speed. And, even though the speed step numbers can be raised or lowered on the LCD and the "engine load" sound changes audibly, neither the acceleration or deceleration buttons will slow the locomotive down. The only way to stop the Mike is to press the EMERGENCY button.

Once the Mike is stopped and I press the acceleration button to start it up again, the Mike will only move at a VERY slow speed - no matter what the speed step indicates on the LCD display. The speed step can be set at 010 or 126; the Mike will only move at approximately the speed of 001. F10 works on the old chip but it's only a steam pop off valve sound.

Terry, I have a question for you. When you were performing the fine tune adjustment and were increasing and decreasing the CV2 values in OPS mode, did your Hudson maintain a constant speed during those changes – i.e. until you lowered the value till it stopped – in your case, 028? To put it another way, while in OPS mode, if you increased CV2 to, say – 255, would you Hudson be traveling faster or the same speed as if you had it at 031? The reason for asking is that I’m trying to determine if my Power Cab is actually making those changes in OPS mode. Thanks.

Tom

[tstage]

Yet another installment...

Last evening I decided to try one more attempt to performing the fine tune adjustment on my new QSI upgrade chip in my BLI Mike.

After I increased CV2 (in OPS mode) from the default of 008 to 010 (according to the chip upgrade installation info sheet supplied by QSI), I removed my Mike and placed it on the programming track to actually get a readout value of CV2. When I checked CV2, I got a value of 022, not 010. [%-)] So, from what I could tell, nothing was changing during my adjustment attempts.

I finally decided to try making the CV2 adjustment outright in Service (or Program) mode and skip OPS mode all together. I increased the values of CV2 from 022 till a saw an increase in speed a speed steps under 005. Using Terry’s findings as a base (mentioned above), I finally honed in on a CV2 value of 035 and it’s working fairly well.

With that said, my question to all you DCC gurus out there – and it’s probably going to come across as a pretty imbecilic one at that – what real advantage is there for changing your throttle from RTC (Regulated Throttle Control) to Standard Throttle Control (STC) to perform an OPS mode CV adjustment? I could change CV2 to a different value in Service mode much quicker than in OPS mode…AND I got to see what value CV2 was programmed to before changing it.

Maybe the chip really is the issue. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see what happens when I switch out the upgrade chip for the replacement upgrade chip coming from Tony’s.

Is there anyone here in the NE Ohio area with a DCC system willing to let me come over and try performing the fine tune adjustment with this current QSI upgrade chip? I have greatly appreciated everyone who has added input to this thread so far. [:)]

Till another episode…

Tom

[rexhea]

Tom:
I don't know why you are having problems with the Ops mode, but it is always much safer to use Program mode anyway.

The reason you have to switch out of the RTC mode to get a good program for CV2 is because CV2 is used only to overcome the initial resistance to get the engine moving. With RTC on, you can't get an accurate starting voltage set because its trying to do all the controlling by sensing the current draw on the motor. There still needs to be enough kick voltage (CV2) set for RTC to start controlling properly.
Clear as mud?[:o)]

REX

[scubaterry]

Tom - It certainly seems you have more going on than meets the eye. My F10 seems to be working fine. I have the Digitrax Super Chief FWIW. It will be interesting to see if the new decoder works or if it is a particular DCC system incompatability/bug. You may be the first to find the bug. Maybe they will name a decoder after you. The "Tominater"

As far as changes to CV2 (or any CV for that matter) in ops mode....As soon as I hit enter for the new CV value I get immediate changes in loco speed acc/decc etc. Along with the verbal acknowledgement

Payday I am going to buy the upgrade chip for my BLI 2-8-2. That aught to be interesting. But the good thing is threads/problems like these make us roll our sleeves up and get into the system and learn how they operate. So its all good.

Rex - Good explanation of the RTC. I sure do like it. What a difference it makes.

Terry [8D][:D]

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

Tom -

As far as changes to CV2 (or any CV for that matter) in ops mode....As soon as I hit enter for the new CV value I get immediate changes in loco speed acc/decc etc. Along with the verbal acknowledgement

Terry [8D][:D]

Terry,

I get verbal acknowledgment when I change the values of CV49 & 56. But when I change CV2 (in Standard Throttle Control mode), the speed is constant (i.e. it neither increases or decreases in speed with the adjustment) and I get no verbal acknowledgment at all. Since that's the case for me and not for you, it sorta makes you think that I could be the chip. The reset to factory settings didn't make any difference along those lines.

Terry, you're right about problems like this. It does make you dig more to try and narrow down where the problem is, as well as force you into the DCC manual more. Hopefully in the next couple of days I'll be able to come up with something more definitive.

Tom

[scubaterry]

Tom - Yep things are looking bad for that Chip! I dug out my 2-8-2 tonight and played with it and the Hudson. Big difference in operations between the two. Particularly low speed. My next upgrade will be for the Mike.
Anxious to see if the new chip solves your problem.
Terry[8D]