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MTH DCS. . .Next evolution of DCC?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Shanksville PA
  • 311 posts
Posted by tsgtbob on Monday, November 27, 2006 3:12 PM
As an O scaler, (and I commented on this about a bazillion posts ago) I feel that the ill will in the O gauge world has done nothing but pollute the well of potential converts to the King of Scales!
I model in O scale, 2 rail, and still use good old reliable DC control! I am considering DCC, but, I am not a big fan of more complications in a hobby.
As far as a supplier/manufacturer, I prefer Weaver!
For the most part made in Pa. (some limited runs are imports), and they are priced to buy.
  • Member since
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  • From: Dallas, GA
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Posted by TrainFreak409 on Monday, November 27, 2006 7:54 PM
I still prefer MTH DCS over Lionel's TMCC; so flame me. Tongue [:P] Laugh [(-D]

Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Buffalo NY USA
  • 452 posts
Posted by edkowal on Monday, November 27, 2006 9:40 PM
 brothaslide wrote:
I was reviewing the MTH site regarding their DCS system.

Anybody have any thoughts on this system or experience. It seems to be a more user friendly DCC system.


Regarding MTH DCS...

It is not the next evolution of anything, it is MTH's own system.

-Ed

Five out of four people have trouble with fractions. -Anonymous
Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. -Benjamin Franklin
"You don't have to be Jeeves to love butlers, but it helps." (Followers of Levi's Real Jewish Rye will get this one) -Ed K
 "A potted watch never boils." -Ed Kowal
If it's not fun, why do it ? -Ben & Jerry

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Buffalo NY USA
  • 452 posts
Posted by edkowal on Monday, November 27, 2006 9:41 PM
 TrainFreak409 wrote:
I still prefer MTH DCS over Lionel's TMCC; so flame me. Tongue [:P] Laugh [(-D]


Consider yourself flamed.

-Ed

Five out of four people have trouble with fractions. -Anonymous
Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. -Benjamin Franklin
"You don't have to be Jeeves to love butlers, but it helps." (Followers of Levi's Real Jewish Rye will get this one) -Ed K
 "A potted watch never boils." -Ed Kowal
If it's not fun, why do it ? -Ben & Jerry

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Southington, CT
  • 1,326 posts
Posted by DMUinCT on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 11:53 AM
True, the first run Challengers and Dash-8s had to be put on the track in one direction. All current production locomotives have a polarity switch so it can be put on the rails in ether direction. With 2 Rail DC the negitive rail carries the digital signal.

Software based is the only way to go. When you make a large outlay for a "Solid State" system you will not want it to become obsolete in a few years, with software based, updates can be downloaded and the control system kept up to date.

I do love the system. MTH spent $4 million on DCS development, few DCC supliers can afford that outlay. They also fought the Union Pacific and won the right for ALL model train makers to produce UP trains and Logos without a sur-charge. They do defend themself.

Lionel has spen the money to bring out a NEW "TMCC" that has most of the "DCS" features even tho Lionel is in bankrupcy after MTH winning the case. Lionel is still operating on borrowed money, but, with the backing of LARGE banks and new managment they will servive and prosper.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 3,264 posts
Posted by CAZEPHYR on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:13 PM

 DMUinCT wrote:
True, the first run Challengers and Dash-8s had to be put on the track in one direction. All current production locomotives have a polarity switch so it can be put on the rails in ether direction. With 2 Rail DC the negitive rail carries the digital signal. Software based is the only way to go. When you make a large outlay for a "Solid State" system you will not want it to become obsolete in a few years, with software based, updates can be downloaded and the control system kept up to date. I do love the system. MTH spent $4 million on DCS development, few DCC supliers can afford that outlay. They also fought the Union Pacific and won the right for ALL model train makers to produce UP trains and Logos without a sur-charge. They do defend themself. Lionel has spen the money to bring out a NEW "TMCC" that has most of the "DCS" features even tho Lionel is in bankrupcy after MTH winning the case. Lionel is still operating on borrowed money, but, with the backing of LARGE banks and new managment they will servive and prosper.

It would seem logical that a new and updated change to correct the directional deficiency would be offered to the previous models.   MTH should offer this correction to all of the previous models out in the field.  I also have the Daylight and it has the same problem.

Do you know if this modification is available for upgrading my two models?? 

I credit MTH for their working with the Union Pacific to solve the problem of the use of the names.  This was a good thing and all of the manufacturers and modelers will benefit greatly from this.  

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Southington, CT
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Posted by DMUinCT on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:19 AM
CAZEPHYR,
The "Daylight" DOES have a polarity switch.

Open the Smoke box door, the switch is on the right near the hinge. Look close, it's to the right of the Charging Jack. A notice was posted on the MTH Web Site in the "G" (Gauge One) section as it was not in the Owner's Manual.

I have not tried to add/change the Challenger. On my 4 Wide Cab Dash-8s, I reversed the feed wires from the power trucks on 2 of them so I could run them "back to back" in pairs (only the outside pair of wires of the 4 on each plug).

The Hudson has a Polarity Switch on the right bottom side ash pan, the Narrow Nose Dash-8s have it on the bottom behind the front truck.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

  • Member since
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Posted by CAZEPHYR on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:28 AM

 DMUinCT wrote:
CAZEPHYR, The "Daylight" DOES have a polarity switch. Open the Smoke box door, the switch is on the right near the hinge. Look close, it's to the right of the Charging Jack. A notice was posted on the MTH Web Site in the "G" (Gauge One) section as it was not in the Owner's Manual. I have not tried to add/change the Challenger. On my 4 Wide Cab Dash-8s, I reversed the feed wires from the power trucks on 2 of them so I could run them "back to back" in pairs (only the outside pair of wires of the 4 on each plug). The Hudson has a Polarity Switch on the right bottom side ash pan, the Narrow Nose Dash-8s have it on the bottom behind the front truck.

Thanks for the information about the switch.  I did locate it, and you are right, the Challenger does not have it.  I was thinking it would be automatic, not manual.  It is still is a problem with any operation except a giant loop.  This means you would have to have reverse loop switch wired much like standard DC opertion.

Thanks     

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Missouri
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Posted by NYCentral1 on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:09 PM
From what I have read in the MTH DCS ad, this system doesn't sound that appealing to me either.  Maybe it's just me, but MTH just seems to be full of themselves, and trying/wanting to make the whole model railroading hobby an entirely MTH "exclusive" item.
  • Member since
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Posted by CAZEPHYR on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:14 PM

 NYCentral1 wrote:
From what I have read in the MTH DCS ad, this system doesn't sound that appealing to me either.  Maybe it's just me, but MTH just seems to be full of themselves, and trying/wanting to make the whole model railroading hobby an entirely MTH "exclusive" item.

The #1 scale engines sounds are extremely good.  I can credit some of that to the larger speaker in the tender, but they use the 3985's whistle and bell sounds for the 3985 and they use the 4449 whistle and bell sounds for their 4449 model.  It is as good as it gets for both of these.  They also chuff correctly and are very convincing for model trains with the exhaust exactly timed to every chuff.  The Challenger actually times the double chuffs with the smoke even when they are running in and out of sync. 

The DCS system operation does have operating limitations, but the sound itself is great.  I noticed that shorting or overloading the track will cause the DCS driver in the Track Interface Unit to blow out.  This is a problem that happened twice to my TIU and it had to be sent back in for repair.  No Fuse??

It just proves there is no perfect system.   

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Utica, OH
  • 4,000 posts
Posted by jecorbett on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:26 PM

NMRA established DCC standards a number of years ago so that components of different manufacturers would be compatible. Manufacturers were free to adhere to those standards or not and most made the business decision to go with the program. MTH has opted to go another route. I'm all for choices but I think I'll stay on the beaten path and stay with DCC. To the pioneers go the arrows. Besides, why would I want to convert to a system that limits me to one manufacturer. With DCC I have a choice and my Lenz system can run my BLI QSI locos and my drop in Digitrax decoders with no problems. With numerous companies working for me, I can take advantage of the innovations of any one of them. If I went with DCS, I would be limited to what MTH comes up with in the future. Count me out on this one.  

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 3,264 posts
Posted by CAZEPHYR on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:53 PM
 jecorbett wrote:

NMRA established DCC standards a number of years ago so that components of different manufacturers would be compatible. Manufacturers were free to adhere to those standards or not and most made the business decision to go with the program. MTH has opted to go another route. I'm all for choices but I think I'll stay on the beaten path and stay with DCC. To the pioneers go the arrows. Besides, why would I want to convert to a system that limits me to one manufacturer. With DCC I have a choice and my Lenz system can run my BLI QSI locos and my drop in Digitrax decoders with no problems. With numerous companies working for me, I can take advantage of the innovations of any one of them. If I went with DCS, I would be limited to what MTH comes up with in the future. Count me out on this one.  

Most of us agree with you "Count me out on this one. "

I only use DCS for the two #1 scale engines, but it is designed for the functions and options that are built into those models.  They run on DC also, but work much better on the DCS.   I purchased the system just to run the two engines, provided they were on the track in the correct direction.  

The funny thing is, I was told by MTH technical representatives my DCS system will not run the HO model MTH K4, so I did not buy one.

  • Member since
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  • From: Southington, CT
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Posted by DMUinCT on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:04 PM
In "HO" that's what they did! Engine and control to NMRA Standards.

They built the K-4 to NMRA latest standard. It can run on MTH "DCS" control OR the "DCC" open NMRA design. All DCC functions can be used with a Power Supply built to the latest NMRA standards. The "MRC Prodigy Advance" is one such unit. An MRC problem in DCC f13 to F28 functions did existed on early MRC units. MRC will correct it for free.

Ref: MTH newsletter "The Crossing Gate" Volumn 3/2006 Page 3

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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