LHS v. .COM supliers

[Anonymous]

Unlike Brakie, I feel like I should give the LHS a few more dollars (but not list, my god!) on the "slam dunk" sales of locomotive to keep them in business for "all the other stuff" which they may need to keep on the shelves for years before they sell.

And ditto, IMHO, for the online shops. If they sell locos at 35% off, they most likely do it as loss leaders, hoping for orders on other stuff. If you only buy the locos, they may not stay around either!

I am lucky to have enough to spend so the few bucks extra don't kill me, but think the idea of frequenting one or two worthy shops or on line shops for most needs makes sense.

Just my .02.

[Anonymous]

Unlike Brakie, I feel like I should give the LHS a few more dollars (but not list, my god!) on the "slam dunk" sales of locomotive to keep them in business for "all the other stuff" which they may need to keep on the shelves for years before they sell.

And ditto, IMHO, for the online shops. If they sell locos at 35% off, they most likely do it as loss leaders, hoping for orders on other stuff. If you only buy the locos, they may not stay around either!

I am lucky to have enough to spend so the few bucks extra don't kill me, but think the idea of frequenting one or two worthy shops or on line shops for most needs makes sense.

Just my .02.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

My only problems with train shows are they tend to charge too much for used stuff. I have seen countless AHM, Lionel, and Tyco stuff go for 2X or 3X times it's true value.... .several lies to hustle the sale. This hurts the reputation of train shows and our hobby as a whole.

Too true of CERTAIN vendors, maybe it's best that only experienced modelers shop the train shows...there are a lot of very good deals, especially on buildings and freight cars, and if one is worried about locomotives, many 'private' non-commercial vendors [ MRR clubs and overstocked hobbyists ], now have test tracks set up.
regards \ Mike

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

My only problems with train shows are they tend to charge too much for used stuff. I have seen countless AHM, Lionel, and Tyco stuff go for 2X or 3X times it's true value.... .several lies to hustle the sale. This hurts the reputation of train shows and our hobby as a whole.

Too true of CERTAIN vendors, maybe it's best that only experienced modelers shop the train shows...there are a lot of very good deals, especially on buildings and freight cars, and if one is worried about locomotives, many 'private' non-commercial vendors [ MRR clubs and overstocked hobbyists ], now have test tracks set up.
regards \ Mike

[Anonymous]

As you may know I am opposed to buying online. Modeling is a small mom and pop type business and never will be big. In facts it's so small that WaXXXrt hasn't even bothered to target them for demise like they have done to craft stores, music stores, fishing stores, tire stores, hardware stores, and now grocery stores. It use to be all these stores thrived in small town USA, but thanks to WaXXXrt and others they are now gone. Now all's you can get a cheap imported fishing gear and watered down hamburger meat when you use to be able to get quality items from your local man who you went to church or drank at the bar with. Same thing is going to happen to trains if we don't change our way. I can see a future when all there will be are toy trains with hornhook couples left because all the quality vendors go broke due to the loss of hobby shops and the pressure of the resulting supershops demanding cheaper items with less margin for the makers as WaXXXrt does now. Example is the Hotwheels v Matchbox compitition. They both kept cutting prices till they were 75 cents. Matchbox gives up and sells to Hotwheels. Price now up again to a dollar. We are at that time now. With the economy slumping this may be the last chance for your local shop. If it happens the way I see it I will be scratch building or into another hobby in 10 years. So save your few bucks now if that's all you care about. That's what WaXXXrt and .coms are beting you will do. MicrXXXft has shown them the way, get a monopoly and charge whatever you want in the future.

[Anonymous]

As you may know I am opposed to buying online. Modeling is a small mom and pop type business and never will be big. In facts it's so small that WaXXXrt hasn't even bothered to target them for demise like they have done to craft stores, music stores, fishing stores, tire stores, hardware stores, and now grocery stores. It use to be all these stores thrived in small town USA, but thanks to WaXXXrt and others they are now gone. Now all's you can get a cheap imported fishing gear and watered down hamburger meat when you use to be able to get quality items from your local man who you went to church or drank at the bar with. Same thing is going to happen to trains if we don't change our way. I can see a future when all there will be are toy trains with hornhook couples left because all the quality vendors go broke due to the loss of hobby shops and the pressure of the resulting supershops demanding cheaper items with less margin for the makers as WaXXXrt does now. Example is the Hotwheels v Matchbox compitition. They both kept cutting prices till they were 75 cents. Matchbox gives up and sells to Hotwheels. Price now up again to a dollar. We are at that time now. With the economy slumping this may be the last chance for your local shop. If it happens the way I see it I will be scratch building or into another hobby in 10 years. So save your few bucks now if that's all you care about. That's what WaXXXrt and .coms are beting you will do. MicrXXXft has shown them the way, get a monopoly and charge whatever you want in the future.

[Anonymous]

nearest LHS is 2 hr drive...so far all y recent purchases have been thru standard hobby..but have only bought track, sw machines and a transformer and ive had good service except the 7$ shipping charge makes me wait til i have a decent order before buying...

[Anonymous]

nearest LHS is 2 hr drive...so far all y recent purchases have been thru standard hobby..but have only bought track, sw machines and a transformer and ive had good service except the 7$ shipping charge makes me wait til i have a decent order before buying...

[Anonymous]

slossmo writes "nearest LHS is 2 hr drive" but a quick yahoo yellows page search for "Hobby Shop" shows 10 within 60 miles and 27 within 100 miles of Hale Michigan. Two listed below are within 25 miles........ Please support your local hobby shops!!!
< David Bar Toys & Games
[phone] 10008 8th St
Oscoda, MI Map
21.7 miles


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great Northern Books & Hobbies
[phone] 209 State St SW
Oscoda, MI Map
23.3 miles

[Anonymous]

slossmo writes "nearest LHS is 2 hr drive" but a quick yahoo yellows page search for "Hobby Shop" shows 10 within 60 miles and 27 within 100 miles of Hale Michigan. Two listed below are within 25 miles........ Please support your local hobby shops!!!
< David Bar Toys & Games
[phone] 10008 8th St
Oscoda, MI Map
21.7 miles


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great Northern Books & Hobbies
[phone] 209 State St SW
Oscoda, MI Map
23.3 miles

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

As you may know I am opposed to buying online.

No, Really??

QUOTE: So save your few bucks now if that's all you care about. That's what WaXXXrt and .coms are beting you will do.

Flee307, some of us do not have the luxury of picking a mom & pop place to shop and paying whatever they charge. Some of us are on tight budgets and thankfully have a places like Walmart to save a little more than just a “few dollars”. If you have the money to throw around, then fine, shop where you please. It’s your choice in this country! I just think you should be a bit more sensitive to us folks with limited resources (or wiser spenders as I would like to think).

And if you have so much trouble with the American free market, then perhaps you should consider the alternatives? Maybe if you spend a little time in countries like North Korea or Liberia, you might gain a little more appreciation for the all blessings we have? The American market may not be perfect, but I suspect that you would not opt for anything else…

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

As you may know I am opposed to buying online.

No, Really??

QUOTE: So save your few bucks now if that's all you care about. That's what WaXXXrt and .coms are beting you will do.

Flee307, some of us do not have the luxury of picking a mom & pop place to shop and paying whatever they charge. Some of us are on tight budgets and thankfully have a places like Walmart to save a little more than just a “few dollars”. If you have the money to throw around, then fine, shop where you please. It’s your choice in this country! I just think you should be a bit more sensitive to us folks with limited resources (or wiser spenders as I would like to think).

And if you have so much trouble with the American free market, then perhaps you should consider the alternatives? Maybe if you spend a little time in countries like North Korea or Liberia, you might gain a little more appreciation for the all blessings we have? The American market may not be perfect, but I suspect that you would not opt for anything else…

[Anonymous]

You are right our system isn't perfect. As to saving money at Walmart that is a fallacy. If you would bother to shop around you can find most products Walmart sells for less at dollar stores, local mom and pop hardware stores, local grocery stores, etc. Our local True Value (locally owned BTW) sells microwaves for $39, and coffeepots for $9. Got to Walmart and beat that price! Walmart tells you with repeated paid advertisemnets they have the lowest prices, and at one time it was true. But today they have a large market share and are charging more than a lot of other stores for the same items because people don't really and truely price shop. As to a tight budget, large companies forcing their workers to work at $6 an hour while they set record profits in a recession that is killing most industries is the problem. Look at Walmart profits and wonder how they make these profits? Look at this site www.walmartclass.com/walmartclass94.pl to see how they possible treat their women associates (verdic pending). Why haven't we heard about this on the media services? Is WalMart an advertiser? And why do people always respond to points they don't agree with or believe by telling you to get out, or leave the country, or go get XXXX, or bring the "I don't care about their plight" statement? Why do people turn it into a personal issue and insult? Tell me why you think I am wrong about my thesis, I want to just make the system better, not scrap it as you imply. I am giving advise on what I think is currently wrong and some ways to possibly fix it. For all I care you can buy your trains at Walmart or Walmart.com, oh, they don't sell trains? You know, my parents got along fine on my dad's wages long before Walmart and dotcoms. Today my wife and I both have to work and still have less than my parents. We both have college degrees and my dad didn't graduate high school. So tell me again how we are on the right track with dicount stores, imported junk products, large multinationals, free trade zones, and dot coms. Support your local economy or no one else will and your job may be next.

[Anonymous]

You are right our system isn't perfect. As to saving money at Walmart that is a fallacy. If you would bother to shop around you can find most products Walmart sells for less at dollar stores, local mom and pop hardware stores, local grocery stores, etc. Our local True Value (locally owned BTW) sells microwaves for $39, and coffeepots for $9. Got to Walmart and beat that price! Walmart tells you with repeated paid advertisemnets they have the lowest prices, and at one time it was true. But today they have a large market share and are charging more than a lot of other stores for the same items because people don't really and truely price shop. As to a tight budget, large companies forcing their workers to work at $6 an hour while they set record profits in a recession that is killing most industries is the problem. Look at Walmart profits and wonder how they make these profits? Look at this site www.walmartclass.com/walmartclass94.pl to see how they possible treat their women associates (verdic pending). Why haven't we heard about this on the media services? Is WalMart an advertiser? And why do people always respond to points they don't agree with or believe by telling you to get out, or leave the country, or go get XXXX, or bring the "I don't care about their plight" statement? Why do people turn it into a personal issue and insult? Tell me why you think I am wrong about my thesis, I want to just make the system better, not scrap it as you imply. I am giving advise on what I think is currently wrong and some ways to possibly fix it. For all I care you can buy your trains at Walmart or Walmart.com, oh, they don't sell trains? You know, my parents got along fine on my dad's wages long before Walmart and dotcoms. Today my wife and I both have to work and still have less than my parents. We both have college degrees and my dad didn't graduate high school. So tell me again how we are on the right track with dicount stores, imported junk products, large multinationals, free trade zones, and dot coms. Support your local economy or no one else will and your job may be next.

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

As to saving money at Walmart that is a fallacy. If you would bother to shop around you can find most products Walmart sells for less at dollar stores, local mom and pop hardware stores, local grocery stores, etc. Our local True Value sells microwaves for $39, and coffe pots for $9. Got to Walmart and beat that price!

You’re correct that places like Walmart do not always have the lowest price on every item. But I find that it’s typically another large retailer that will beat another (usually on “loss leader” items). Your examples of Microwaves and Coffee pots only reinforces this point. True Value is part of a huge cooperative that has over 7000 stores nationwide. So why should they not be regarded with the same disdain as Walmart?? I'm sure they don't pay their help much better!

Actually, this is not about Walmart. It's about shopping at a place that has the lowest price. Bringing this back to a MRR theme, on-line MRR stores typically beat an LHS for price. Will this hurt the hobby? Nope, I don't think so. I think what we are seeing is a paradigm shift in MRR shopping. Times change. Things change. Those who resist will be left behind. It’s a simple and often cruel part of our free market.

I personally think the greatest threat to our hobby is not the on-line store, but the skyrocketing cost of new items. This alone will shutout more new people from our hobby than any on-line store will. If anything, the on-line store is helping keep people in the hobby by offering them a lower cost alternative.

QUOTE: Today my wife and I both have to work and still have less than my parents. We both have college degrees and my dad didn't graduate high school. So tell me again we are on the right track with dicount stores, imported junk products, and dot coms.

I work as the sole income provider so my wife can stay home with our young children. I'm sure you know how difficult that can be, but try it in the Boston area! As for what you're parents had, you need to remember that (in general) our quailty of life is far better. We have access to many things they never had. The "good old days" may have had their good points, but I have found when talking with our elders that they much prefer what is available to them today (AC, Microwaves, Cable TV, Advanced Medical procedures, etc.).

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307

As to saving money at Walmart that is a fallacy. If you would bother to shop around you can find most products Walmart sells for less at dollar stores, local mom and pop hardware stores, local grocery stores, etc. Our local True Value sells microwaves for $39, and coffe pots for $9. Got to Walmart and beat that price!

You’re correct that places like Walmart do not always have the lowest price on every item. But I find that it’s typically another large retailer that will beat another (usually on “loss leader” items). Your examples of Microwaves and Coffee pots only reinforces this point. True Value is part of a huge cooperative that has over 7000 stores nationwide. So why should they not be regarded with the same disdain as Walmart?? I'm sure they don't pay their help much better!

Actually, this is not about Walmart. It's about shopping at a place that has the lowest price. Bringing this back to a MRR theme, on-line MRR stores typically beat an LHS for price. Will this hurt the hobby? Nope, I don't think so. I think what we are seeing is a paradigm shift in MRR shopping. Times change. Things change. Those who resist will be left behind. It’s a simple and often cruel part of our free market.

I personally think the greatest threat to our hobby is not the on-line store, but the skyrocketing cost of new items. This alone will shutout more new people from our hobby than any on-line store will. If anything, the on-line store is helping keep people in the hobby by offering them a lower cost alternative.

QUOTE: Today my wife and I both have to work and still have less than my parents. We both have college degrees and my dad didn't graduate high school. So tell me again we are on the right track with dicount stores, imported junk products, and dot coms.

I work as the sole income provider so my wife can stay home with our young children. I'm sure you know how difficult that can be, but try it in the Boston area! As for what you're parents had, you need to remember that (in general) our quailty of life is far better. We have access to many things they never had. The "good old days" may have had their good points, but I have found when talking with our elders that they much prefer what is available to them today (AC, Microwaves, Cable TV, Advanced Medical procedures, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Are we better off than our parents? We have a better quality of life? I disagree, we may have more material good, but we also have dirty air, huge national and personal debt, a rotten infastructure that nobody wants to spend money on, and chemicals rampant in our enviroment. I live in very rual Missouri and can no longer drink our well water due to chemicals and ecoli. The Eastcoast's electric went out the other day, so what? Ours went out 4 times last week. I know it did because the clocks and VCR needed reset 4 times. Our electric was out 5 days due to a storm this spring. That didn't make national news. We live longer now so we can spend more on doctors and nursing homes. Is this quality of life, to spend more days as wards of whomever? Our True Value is locally owned just like McDonalds and lots of other franchises are. Franchises are good as they allow locals to compete on a national level. Is Walmart a franchise? If it's all about saving money why is K mart going under? Their prices are as good. Our local computer store sells CDRs, mice, keyboards, cables, computers, almost everything cheaper than WalMart. I checked and buy from them. I buy stuuf at WalMart myself because they broke their competition in the 70s and 80s and are all there is for some items locally. But, I shop around and buy from a local merchant if possible. You know really, when you buy from a dotcom you are helping UPS or FedEx. And now I am being called resistant to change. I don't resist change, I want change... Quit buying at Walmart and dotcoms and spend you money locally.

[Anonymous]

Are we better off than our parents? We have a better quality of life? I disagree, we may have more material good, but we also have dirty air, huge national and personal debt, a rotten infastructure that nobody wants to spend money on, and chemicals rampant in our enviroment. I live in very rual Missouri and can no longer drink our well water due to chemicals and ecoli. The Eastcoast's electric went out the other day, so what? Ours went out 4 times last week. I know it did because the clocks and VCR needed reset 4 times. Our electric was out 5 days due to a storm this spring. That didn't make national news. We live longer now so we can spend more on doctors and nursing homes. Is this quality of life, to spend more days as wards of whomever? Our True Value is locally owned just like McDonalds and lots of other franchises are. Franchises are good as they allow locals to compete on a national level. Is Walmart a franchise? If it's all about saving money why is K mart going under? Their prices are as good. Our local computer store sells CDRs, mice, keyboards, cables, computers, almost everything cheaper than WalMart. I checked and buy from them. I buy stuuf at WalMart myself because they broke their competition in the 70s and 80s and are all there is for some items locally. But, I shop around and buy from a local merchant if possible. You know really, when you buy from a dotcom you are helping UPS or FedEx. And now I am being called resistant to change. I don't resist change, I want change... Quit buying at Walmart and dotcoms and spend you money locally.

[MAbruce]

Okay, for the sake of everyone else here, I think we will just have to "agree to disagree" on this one. We could debate this rather broad subject for quite a while, but I think we need to keep it MRR related (as it is MR's site).

My bottom line is that I will make my MRR (or any) purchases at the place that offers the best price. I hope that it can be one of my LHS's, and I will always give them the first try. But I just can't afford to go out of my way to buy from them exclusively for the sake of supporting them.

Sorry to hear about your power outages. Wow, 4 times a week would must be hard to take! [:0] I hope that this didn't happen overnight so your alarm was out of commsion the next morning. I hate when that happens. [xx(]

[MAbruce]

Okay, for the sake of everyone else here, I think we will just have to "agree to disagree" on this one. We could debate this rather broad subject for quite a while, but I think we need to keep it MRR related (as it is MR's site).

My bottom line is that I will make my MRR (or any) purchases at the place that offers the best price. I hope that it can be one of my LHS's, and I will always give them the first try. But I just can't afford to go out of my way to buy from them exclusively for the sake of supporting them.

Sorry to hear about your power outages. Wow, 4 times a week would must be hard to take! [:0] I hope that this didn't happen overnight so your alarm was out of commsion the next morning. I hate when that happens. [xx(]

[Anonymous]

LHS mostly. Gives me a discount, will order things, what more could I want? Have bought a little over inet, but you are buying a pig in a poke. So far I've been lucky, but know people who have not. A seller who doesn't know anything about trains ought not to be selling them.

[Anonymous]

LHS mostly. Gives me a discount, will order things, what more could I want? Have bought a little over inet, but you are buying a pig in a poke. So far I've been lucky, but know people who have not. A seller who doesn't know anything about trains ought not to be selling them.

[Anonymous]

I have several LHS in my area and 3 of them are trains only. Unfortunately I'm in S scale which forces me to do a lot of mail order business. One of the LHS is very cooperative about ordering anything they can for me but the others don't have much (if any) interest in helping me out. If you don't do HO or N you're not going to get much attention from many LHS. That makes it harder to model in the less popular scales but it's well worth it to be in S scale!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

I have several LHS in my area and 3 of them are trains only. Unfortunately I'm in S scale which forces me to do a lot of mail order business. One of the LHS is very cooperative about ordering anything they can for me but the others don't have much (if any) interest in helping me out. If you don't do HO or N you're not going to get much attention from many LHS. That makes it harder to model in the less popular scales but it's well worth it to be in S scale!!!!!!

[Jetrock]

I have three hobbyshops within half an hour of my house--the nearest one has very low prices and poor selection (they are trying to clear out their railroad stuff and most is discounted), the farthest one has good selection and prices normally 5-10% less than Walthers catalog prices, the middle one has the best selection and standard prices.

I order online only for things I can't find locally or at train shows. This is mostly confined to eBay, and tends to be things like uber-rare ancient stuff (books, old brass, etc.) rather than more mundane hobby purchases. If I need a jar of Floquil, I go to the hobby shop. If I need an Ira Swett INTERURBANS SPECIAL, I wait for it to crop up on eBay.

[Jetrock]

I have three hobbyshops within half an hour of my house--the nearest one has very low prices and poor selection (they are trying to clear out their railroad stuff and most is discounted), the farthest one has good selection and prices normally 5-10% less than Walthers catalog prices, the middle one has the best selection and standard prices.

I order online only for things I can't find locally or at train shows. This is mostly confined to eBay, and tends to be things like uber-rare ancient stuff (books, old brass, etc.) rather than more mundane hobby purchases. If I need a jar of Floquil, I go to the hobby shop. If I need an Ira Swett INTERURBANS SPECIAL, I wait for it to crop up on eBay.

[CP5415]

Personally, I tend to stay away from purchases I can't see before shelling out money. Sure you can find bargains on E-bay, you can also find garbage too. I haven't heard too much about the garbage, but I really don't want to find out first hand.
I've only bought MRR stuff once over the internet. The seller happened to be around my area so I asked him if we could meet. He said sure & we've been freinds ever since & that was 4 years ago.
My LHS has decent prices. I won't complain about them. I've been working retail long enough where I can see where people are goughing the prices.
My LHS also has a decent variety of MRR stuff. Always loads of Athearn Blue Box. At least so far.
For me, I'll stick to my LHS. HE offers more than just decent prices.

Gordon

[CP5415]

Personally, I tend to stay away from purchases I can't see before shelling out money. Sure you can find bargains on E-bay, you can also find garbage too. I haven't heard too much about the garbage, but I really don't want to find out first hand.
I've only bought MRR stuff once over the internet. The seller happened to be around my area so I asked him if we could meet. He said sure & we've been freinds ever since & that was 4 years ago.
My LHS has decent prices. I won't complain about them. I've been working retail long enough where I can see where people are goughing the prices.
My LHS also has a decent variety of MRR stuff. Always loads of Athearn Blue Box. At least so far.
For me, I'll stick to my LHS. HE offers more than just decent prices.

Gordon

[n2mopac]

I recently moved from Fort Worth, TX to a town of 450 in central MO which means I went from multiple excellent hobby shops to none (of any quality)within 70 miles. Being an N scaler, it is always hard to find a shop that carries a good variety of of N scale supplies. In Ft. Worth/Dallas there were 2. The good thing about the shop is that you can truly see and handle the items before you buy, which I preferr. Also, on the internet what seems like a deal can turn into a bust when you pay shipping and handling. To be honest I have found my best internet deals on ebay, but you cannot always find what you're looking for by any means. Well, thats my 2 cents worth.
Ron

[n2mopac]

I recently moved from Fort Worth, TX to a town of 450 in central MO which means I went from multiple excellent hobby shops to none (of any quality)within 70 miles. Being an N scaler, it is always hard to find a shop that carries a good variety of of N scale supplies. In Ft. Worth/Dallas there were 2. The good thing about the shop is that you can truly see and handle the items before you buy, which I preferr. Also, on the internet what seems like a deal can turn into a bust when you pay shipping and handling. To be honest I have found my best internet deals on ebay, but you cannot always find what you're looking for by any means. Well, thats my 2 cents worth.
Ron