QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999 James, In a sense your youth is being wasted. In your profile you say you were born in 1982... 24 years old. You should be hanging out with the fellas and chasing girls. Even more, you should be focused on improving your finacial situation. It's really none of my business, but you aired your problems and I am just trying to help like everyone else. Also, you may be young, but you are not a kid. This is the time in your life that will reflect on the rest of your life. Building social skills as well as occupational skills are more important right now than building a layout and being concerned with the prices at your LHS. My two cents... for what it's worth. Good luck to you. Dave
QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul3 That's unfortunate, but that has nothing to do with using your credit card. ID theft can happen any time, any place, with or without using credit cards. Even if you don't have any credit cards at all, if they steal your ID, they can simply order them and trash your credit rating anyways. Not that I blame you for being super cautious with your personal info, but using a credit card to a reputable online shop is not that risky...no more than using a credit card at your LHS, anyways.
QUOTE: This is where your own personal "good enough" factor kicks in. There are many people out there that don't care about detail or accuracy (most of these people are in S and O scale - tinplaters). There are also many people out there that do care about accuracy and detail, and are willing to pay more for it. It's no big deal to me that you don't "get it", but it's hard to explain why it's important to me. It's like trying to describe color to a blind man (not that you're blind, just a figure of speech). I guess it's because I'm trying to reproduce something that really existed on a smaller scale. I have lots of books on the subject, have hundreds of magazines, and therefore I know what stuff is supposed to look like. When I see something that isn't right, I'm thinking "That's not a (blank), it's just a poorly done model", instead of "Wow, that looks just like a (blank)." Someday, when all is perfect in the world, I want pictures of my layout to look just like pictures of the real thing...that an ariel shot of a real location from 1956 would look just like my layout. That's what I want, it's what I'm aiming for. Anything that gets me closer to that goal is "good" for me. Anything that takes me farther away is "bad" for me. Wide body GP shells are therefore not "good"...for me. YMMV.
QUOTE: I'm in a fairly large RR club (60+ members), and there are a lot of Athearn RTR's running around... CF7's, GP60M's, RS-3's, F7's, and many freight cars. Frankly, you must have the worst luck in the world, as there haven't been any real trouble with any of the Athearn RTR in my club. We've had more trouble with BLI products than with Athearn RTR's... BTW, how would they offer RPP shells as kits? Just bare shells like RPP did? Or fully assembled "kits" like old blue boxes?
QUOTE: QUOTE: The law requires me to answer no. Well, for starters there is no such law. Secondly...do you honestly think that manufacturers should be run for the "good of the hobby"? If so...when are you going give up that 6% annual raise for the good of your industry? My point is that it's real easy to tell others that they should make less money when it's not your bank account on the line.
QUOTE: The law requires me to answer no.
QUOTE: Yep, you can. However, you'll only have one due to the time it'll take. Other people have money and they have the skills, they just don't want to wait...like Tony K., for example.
QUOTE: A "large number of static locomotive kits"? Oh, really? Just what would that be? And please don't include the Hallmark X-mas ornaments...they aren't kits.
QUOTE: Me, either, but then, I don't want one. It's not NH, so I don't really care.
QUOTE: Then I respectfully point out that if the above is true, then it's not the hobby that has a problem...it's an internal problem with your feelings. For example, a friend of mine has a couple hundred of loco...over 60 of them are brass (and good brass at that). He has them in display cases all over his house (can you tell he's not married?). When I go over, do I even feel a tinge of jealousy? Nope. But would you? If so, then it wouldn't be my friend's fault for making you jealous... BTW, this same guy also owns three cars...a Focus, a Taurus SHO, and he just bought a brand new Mustang. Do I feel jealous? Why should I? He's worked hard, he's got a good job, he has no kids. Why shouldn't he spend it on himself?
QUOTE: The 2x4 trick does work, just remember to have two leads so you don't have to stop the loco at ever block.
QUOTE: Geez, give the guy a break... It's "breaking your heart" to see Tony K. not scratchbuild or repaint his own locos? Just repeat this mantra..."It's just a hobby...it's just a hobby...it's just a hobby..." And why should it make any difference to you if a columnist for a hobby magazine decides to spend money instead of time? Money he has...time he doesn't.
QUOTE: Well, he has gone for more of the operations side of the fence lately...
QUOTE: My Aun't had her Identity stolen. While here case specificly was due to lax security proceedures at the hospital my uncle was at while being treated for a heart attack. Its been close to 3 years now, She is still trying to get her life back together, and her credit rating is in the toilet. If that is what you expect me to pay so I can play. Then I would rather scratch build a PRR 4-4-4-4 out of used soda pop cans.
QUOTE: I guess I am just don't get it then. Before I sat down to write this. I have a Two Bachmann Plus SD45s. and like 6 Athearn SD45s. I took one of my Bachmann SD45s and an Athearn one. Sat them side by side. While I can notice there is a difference in width. Its not worth worring about in my opinion. I guess the mentality is just lost on me.
QUOTE: I realise that RPP shells were just that. You needed an Athearn Locomotive to fini***hem off, Which is why they were a good match for Athearn to Purchase them. Its Ok if they upgrade the detail. But then they completly ruined it by offering them only as RTR. I must be in for it bad because I have actually purchased some Athearn RTR. Most from my LHS. A few from Mail Order. Every Piece I have found defective. The cars have had everything from grosely out of guage wheels. (Ran just perfect on HOn3 track)to trucks put on upside down. And marred lettering I am going to have to fix. The locomotive (An F7 A&B set) Needed parts from my spares box because apparently they were in such a hurry to ship it out they couldn't finish it. I have not been impressed with Athearn RTR. Unfortunatly I seem to be the only person experiencing this rash of bad luck with them so no one can vouch with me that the RTR line is an enormouse piece of Junk.
QUOTE: My Point is, if you are willing to put forth a little effort, show a little persistance. and are patient, you can have stuff just as nice. Without costing an arm and a leg.
QUOTE: While it may be true that Monogram only made two Locomotive Kits. A Big Boy and a Hudson. There have been a large number of static locomotive kits made over the years by various companies in many scales. Powering them offers a great deal of economy comared to purchasing a powered model of the same locomotive from another firm.
QUOTE: I have yet to be able to afford an Athearn Challenger yet as well.
QUOTE: People at the hobby shop. people whom I have met, several people here. All of them ask me. "Why do you want to do that for? WHen you can just go buy one?" Maybe its not so much ridicule, But It makes me very self concious and very fefensive and I don't feel I should have to defend why or how I do things. And perhaps you are right, maybe I am jealouse a little of all the money others can spend. I am going through hard times right now. And I just see the money that so and so is spending, and I think. Oh what I could do with that.
QUOTE: However I do like the 2X4 with nails Idea. I just might try that one. As for ballast, I used crushed oil bearing shale. It has a nice dark gray color to it, and can be crushed really fine. I have gotten some down to a nice powder for my brother who works in N scale.
QUOTE: I actually sound bitter? Dissapointed Yes. But Bitter? Maybe I should relax just a little then. Anyway, I am dissapointed in him. Because when I was younger. and model trains were the escale from the hell that was my daily life. He espused though his trians of thought columns a philosophy of for lack of a better words. Pride in your work and Craftsmanship. It was a message that I tuned into. And now here he is turning his back to that philosophy at every turn. Sending the models off for reworking. Buying stuff for this and that when back when I was taking every word he said as gosple, would have been scratch built. I guess I feel like the old rusting signal mast out in the woods the tracks that I was meant to protect having long since been abandoned. For me its about as heart breaking as learning Duke Cunningham (Childhood hero) is guilty of bribery and is now going to prison.
QUOTE: Again perhaps you are right. Maybe my sense of being the congregation abandoned by the pastor, has clouded my objectivity. And no he didn't ralley against scratchbuilding but it has been close to 8 years since I have seen him write anything advancing its cause.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Tom Curtin My conclusion ... which I admit may not make anybody feel better about this matter, is that the cost of the hobby appears to simply be subject to the normal inflation of our economy.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999 James, I have been following along on this topic and thought I would jump in. Look, you are young! Remember that. When I was 24, I wanted to be involved in model railroading, but I couldn't afford anything. I went years before my financial situation allowed it. The hobby of model railroading is NOT cheap by any stretch of the imagination... that is just a fact. The positive side of the issue is that one day you will look back(while you are running that pricey loco that you just bought) and remember the struggle to get where you are. No one can afford model railroading when they are young(unless they are involved with their dad or something). Your time will come... if you try and force the hobby into your life, it no longer is fun and becomes a chore. Relax and do what you can. If you can only afford one loco a year, then when you are ready to build your layout you will have several locos to run when you finish. You often talk about your scratch building skills... so build some structures and add them to the layout when you finally get to build it. I guess I am trying to say not to stress and ru***hings... that will only suck the fun out of it. Your time will come... trust me, I have been there!! Good luck and hang in there. Dave Maybe I am young. But I don't want my youth to be wasted iether. As for my scratchbuilding Skills. I am out of room on my 4X6+1.5X8' layout I have set up now. (Running a Life-Like Trainset GP38-2 with Tyco, Bachmann, and Life-Like Cars) If I had a book shelf I would cut up some more foam core. James
QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999 James, I have been following along on this topic and thought I would jump in. Look, you are young! Remember that. When I was 24, I wanted to be involved in model railroading, but I couldn't afford anything. I went years before my financial situation allowed it. The hobby of model railroading is NOT cheap by any stretch of the imagination... that is just a fact. The positive side of the issue is that one day you will look back(while you are running that pricey loco that you just bought) and remember the struggle to get where you are. No one can afford model railroading when they are young(unless they are involved with their dad or something). Your time will come... if you try and force the hobby into your life, it no longer is fun and becomes a chore. Relax and do what you can. If you can only afford one loco a year, then when you are ready to build your layout you will have several locos to run when you finish. You often talk about your scratch building skills... so build some structures and add them to the layout when you finally get to build it. I guess I am trying to say not to stress and ru***hings... that will only suck the fun out of it. Your time will come... trust me, I have been there!! Good luck and hang in there. Dave
QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate Yep, I remember in the early 70s, shortly after I got into the hobby, looking longingly at the brass locos going for $70+ -- while the Tycos and BB Athearns were $15-$20. In those days, minimum wage was less than $2 and I worked in the lumber mills during the summer while going to college. I made $150 a week (take home) and put it all away to keep me going through the winter while in school. I lived at home with my parents, so that helped. And $150 a week wasn't too shabby in those days, but priorities meant I couldn't just go blow it on trains. I handlaid my track to save money -- rails, spikes, and basswood ties were cheaper than flex track, and looked a whole lot better too. I had like three or four locos to my name -- that's all I could afford. I drooled over the Steam Locos encylopedia from Kalmbach but could not afford its $20 price -- why that was as more than a whole locomotive! All other books from Kalmbach on the hobby were $1 - $2 each, and a subscription to MR was $12 a year -- almost the cost of a typical locomotive. If you think the hobby was more "affordable" for the young 30-40 years ago -- think again. [swg]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul3 I dunno about it being "suspicious", it's just that they prefer having the protection (for example, what if the shipment is lost, or if a customer tries to stiff them, etc.), and so do most customers for mostly the same reasons. I don't trust online security, either, but sometimes if you want to play, you have to pay.
QUOTE: Yes, to me (and a lot of others) it's pretty bad. It's all right if they are by themselves, but if you mix an old Athearn GP9 (for example) with a later Athearn, P2K, Front Range or Atlas GP, it sticks out like the proverbial red thumb. The NH had 30 GP9's, and the old Athearn just isn't "good enough" for me. But considering that I can find undec. scale width GP's at trainshows for $40 to $50, it's not so bad. I shop around quite a bit, and with patience and skill, bargains can be had.
QUOTE: Well, remember that the RPP's were never really "kits", they were just shells and frames at the most. That's not a kit, that's a part. [:)] They also had a lot of problems, detail and scale wise. So it's difficult for Athearn to simply offer them as kits because of all the modifications they made to the shell to improve it (they'd have to include all the parts, and paint it). Undec.'s, sure, but they are just as expensive to make as the RTR (note the new RS-3 is like that).
QUOTE: Remember...to you (and me for that matter), it's a hobby. To "them" (them being the manufacturers and magazines), it's a business...not a hobby. They are in this to make money, and they are trying their best to seperate you from the most money they can. That's why they spend big bucks to take out full color ads in MR and RMC, why they attend hobby shows like Springfield (MA) and the NMRA convention. They are trying to entice you to buy...always have and always will. Sure, to some it's a hobby and a business. But if they try to make it as an extension of their hobby rather than a business, then they are going to be an ex-manufacturer before too long. Is that wrong?
QUOTE: Um, ok, but what's your point? You can still buy the Bachmann Niagra from Walthers today for $122. http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/160-11305 Detail parts will add a few bucks (depending on the article, it could be a lot of cash if you have to replace trucks and drivers, or not much for only a few detail parts). Say it adds $30 for detail parts. Add another $100 for sound, speakers, Kadees, etc. And you've got about $250...the cost of the BLI Niagra which is, you have to admit, a much better model than the Bachmann one (runs smoother, pulls more, sounds better, more dependable, etc.).
QUOTE: Sure, but you have to admit that 1). it's a rare example indeed, as there is only two examples made of snap together models that I've ever heard of in HO scale (the Big Boy and the Niagra). And 2). You're looking at a lot of work, not only trying to get a snap kit to roll, but just the building of the Big Boy mechanism kit. For some folks, and extra $200 is worth it so they don't have to rivet all those side rods. There's nothing wrong with it, but some folk think that running trains is more important than building them, and they are willing to pay real money to get the trains running ASAP. Some want even more detail and fidelity to prototype, but can't afford $2000 for a brass model. $750 isn't that bad compared to $2000 for a simular product with sound (that brass still doesn't have). There's nothing wrong with that, either. Some people have more money than you or me. It's doesn't make them any better or worse.
QUOTE: A person can carve their locos out of soap, too, and make out like a bandit...just don't let it get wet. [:)] And these locos may not be out of stock if the Challengers are any indication.
QUOTE: Who has "shamed and ridiculed" you because you won't spend? To me, it's not that they are jealous of your craftsman skills as much as someone is jealous of the money others can spend on their hobby. The worst I've said here about you has been your apparent lack of interest in bargain shopping while you're complaining that you can't find any deals in Wyoming...and you have internet access This hobby can be as cheap or expensive as you choose. You can build boxcars out of paper like they did during the Depression, wind your own motor cores, cast your own smoke boxes out of lead, etc. I know one guy who uses an alligator clamp and a 2x4" with nails wired up for his block control. He also sifts street sand for his ballast (after washing it). He's a heckuva modeler, but I don't think he's ever spent more than $50 for a loco in his life.
QUOTE: And your point? Who cares if he sends them to Timbuktoo for repainting and sound. Last I checked, Tony isn't getting any younger, and he certainly has nothing to prove to anyone (including you) that he's model railroader. Maybe...just maybe...the actual running of the trains is now more important to Tony than repainting a bunch of steamers. He obviously has the money to do so, so why knock him for wanting to get the wheels rolling on his lifetime dream layout that he's always wanted? Especially after all the work that he's done both on his AM and for the hobby. Is it now crime to want to run trains ASAP? You sound awfully bitter about a guy who's done a heckuva lot more than either one of us...
QUOTE: For starters, that's a lot of typing. I've done stuff like that before, and it's not easy. My thanks for doing that. However, I have to question the matter of "tone". It's totally subjective, and if you go in thinking he's jerk, he's going to sound like a jerk even if he was only writing down cookie recipes. At worst, one could accuse him of making a mistake comparing the terms "state of the art" with "good enough". They aren't the same for most people. For Tony, apparently, he likes to consider himself at the state of the art...so that's his "good enough" level. Odd, but you have to admit he's been ahead of the curve for most of his model railroading career. At no point in his article did he say that one wasn't a model railroader if you don't do what he says. You are reading waaaay too much into this thing. The only things in his list that are "expensive" are sound and DCC. Oh, and at no point did I read that Tony K. railed against scratch building in his article. Perhaps that was in a different issue?
QUOTE: And no one is putting a gun to your head making you pay these prices, either. But, please, spare us the drama of "nobody makes anything I can afford". That's hooey, and you know it. If you can afford Bachmann GP30's and GP35's (both of which retail for $55 ea.), then you can afford: Walthers Trainline - GP9M, FA-1, FB-1, F40PH, GP15-1 (all $55 or less) Athearn loco kits - most are under $55...all but the SD40-2's, AC4400, C44-9W And then there's the Model Power, Bachmann, Life-Like train set stuff that's all under $55. BTW, there wasn't that much under $55 in 1993, either. Also, I was at a train show last weekend where there was a used Atlas/Kato RS-3 for $12, and new in the box Atlas units for $50, Proto 1000 DL109's for $55, and many other simular deals. So shop around. Not that you're going to find these sales in Wyoming, but on the net, many things are possible. But please stop with the "nobody makes anything I can afford" mantra. It's just not so. Now, it may be true that nobody makes anything you want that you can afford. That I believe...I run into that all the time. [:)]
QUOTE: Tell the owner that those moron's are costing him business. Then we'll see how much the owner a) appreciates his regulars and b) handles his employees. If anyone came into my store and complained that one of my employees was driving away business, then I'd have a serious conversation with my employee. I'd get their side of the story, and if it's bogus, then I'd be all over them. If it's explainable (there is such a thing as crazy customers), then I'd shrug it off once (accident) or twice (coincidence), but three times would constitute "enemy action" and would need some corrective behavior on the part of the employee or they're gone.
QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45 James, hope you don't mind, but let's switch up here. Paul3 made some very good points. Now I think I understand your view a little better. Your speaking from your economic view based on your current situation. Very understandable. Don't give up, amigo! Our economy is prospering, but the situation has changed dramatically where many of us don't seem to be benefiting from the strong economy. Caution though! I'm not sure about your college, but most college professors I've encountered are extremely cynical and liberalized in their views and do a great job of rubbing it off on students. I hope they haven't poisoned your attitude. I have to disagree with your comment about women. I'm a news junkie and see the media (and college professors) OVER BLOWING and STRETCHING their info. While there is still some bias, it's nothing like it was 20 years ago when I was in junior college. A lot of women are jumping in at opportunities left and right. I went to a training class for collision repair and was shocked to see that the entire class for new insurance adjustors was composed of women! No way you would have seen that in the early 80s! Remember, whether "Dubaya" is in the White House or "Kerry" the heavy corporate outsourcing trend we have today started over a decade ago. Neither one of these guys could stop it or would try, regardless of their promises. FOR YOU, there are still great career opportunities out there, but nowadays it may require relocating and/or getting into a field that you had not planned on. Example: A friend of mine, who had earned a Bachelor's degree in business, became a transit bus driver after being unable to find a job "at his education level". Most elitists would have looked down at him. He didn't complain, kept his nose clean, often gave input and suggestions to his bosses, joined various committees, interacted with blue collar and white collar employess, became a union stewart, etc. Just 4 years later, he became one of the managers earning a hefty salary. One of my neighbors was a corporate junior executive who was laid off of his financial management job due to "downsizing". He was still paying back his college loans, which were high. Though deep in debt, he was aggressive. He quickly looked at different career options. I was surprised when he went to work for a Toyota dealership as a salesman. Though he initially had a bit of a "snooty" attitude, he discovered that salesmen with good people skills make as much or more money than their "degreed" bosses. My point is, don't be discouraged, but don't sit still. You may have to put the hobby on a "temporary hold", and seriously explore career options. They're out there! Here in Florida, "High End" collision repair shops are desperate for Collision Estimators. A good, computer literate, well organized estimator today at a large Cadillac dealership can earn an easy $65,000 per year. There is also a demand for teachers, transit authority professionals, Auto parts store managers, insurance adjustors, teachers, etc. You may be feeling depressed at times, which is normal but not healthy. I KNOW! Do your career research and go for it. If what your aspiring for is currently not available, take a "positive detour". LIke my friend above, he really enjoys mass transit. It is possible to get to that stage where paying $120 or so for a locomotive won't be a big deal. But always take care of home and debt first. Peace to you, Student/Grayhound [4:-)][tup]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton You know, with a few relatively minor changes, this could have been about me in 1980, when I got out of college. Prices had been going up at double-digit rates for several years. Still, I expected to be able to enjoy a little extra cash, and maybe afford a luxury or two. Boy, did I feel cheated! In order to get a job I had to live 2000+ miles from where I still consider home. Had I refused to take a job outside of the state of Wyoming or immediately around it, I would have wound up on welfare. Instead I wound up in Philly. My school debts also were eating me alive, and after I started working years passed before I could purchase anything I would consider a luxury. In fact, I couldn't even afford to buy a modest house until I'd been working nearly ten years! This note may come across as unsympatheic, James, or as an attempt to marginalize your difficulties, but it isn't meant in either of those ways. What I'm saying is that probably many of us have gone through similar situations, and things have worked out. I had a lot of what I now think were unrealistic expectations coming out of college (though I do still feel like I was cheated in some way), but I made some tough decisions (like moving to Philly) and survived the bumps in the road. You will, too - better days are a-comin'. Ya just have to persevere. Might as well take the bull by the horns and make him give you a ride - the time will pass anyway.
QUOTE: Originally posted by selector Put more bluntly, but more academically, intelligence is a measure of an organism's ability to survive, or to adapt. Get some counselling from a reputable job-search organization, or if that is unthinkable/not affordable, walk down a different "street." The longer you stay in the hole, the less attractive you will be to a prospective employer. They will wonder what is wrong with you, and will not be kindly disposed toward you. So, you must take a whole new approach, even a new career path if need be, and get going. Use your youth and energy while you have it, but use it to get launched in a way that you find fulfilling. I dislike this type of approach to motivation, as it seems cold, detached, and uncaring. But I have learned that, if you can get past the emotion, the fear, and the sense of hopelessness, the words are "right". Adapt, and you will survive. Adapt, and you will be able to run a model railroad the way you dream of it. Regards, -Crandell
QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue When I first joined. I was a heady sophmore in college flush with enthusiasm. Back then the future was bright, Prices had not gone nuts yet. and even though I was a college student tight on funds, I enjoyed a healthy amount of hobby participation. Then my parents tore down my layout, hobby prices have skyrocketed, I have had to pile on debt to finish school, and I seemed to develop a black mark against me some place. The job I work now pays just above minimum wage, and barely pays for this poor excuse for a one room apartment. keep something paletable in the fridge and keeps my hygene up to standard. I am looking for higher paying jobs. But any gains in pay I make are going to be swallowed up in paying my debts. Matter of fact, If I do not find a better paying job soon. the holders of my stuent loans are going to force me into bankruptcy. I am already preparing to sell a substantial portion of my train collection, Just to get them off my back for a while. The thought of that causes me a great deal of anguish. I was promised when I was little, Go to School get good grades so you can go to college and get a good job. Well I went to school, put up with a trainload of harrassment and abuse, went to college, and the good jobs I was promised evaporated, and our good freind Georgie Boy is making *** sure that unless you have 5 million in your bank acount to join the club. The great promise of America is off limits to anyone who has less. Oh and its clear that women are not very welcome iether. In the year I have been out of college, I have become very disallusioned and synical of everything. I apoligise if this starts to grate on people. Im not a greedy man and Im not asking for much. But it would be nice if I could afford a bed so I can stop sleeping in a sleeping bag on the floor. By the way. I should mention that I only have internet because it came "free" with the telephone service (Free because I am paying about $20.00 a month more than whats available in other towns) which my job requires me to have. $70.00 a month I could otherwise spend on something else. Disgruntled, and Dissolusioned. James
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Ryan BoudreauxThe Piedmont Division Modeling The Southern Railway, Norfolk & Western & Norfolk Southern in HO during the merger eraCajun Chef Ryan
QUOTE: Example: A friend of mine, who had earned a Bachelor's degree in business, became a transit bus driver after being unable to find a job "at his education level". Most elitists would have looked down at him. He didn't complain, kept his nose clean, often gave input and suggestions to his bosses, joined various committees, interacted with blue collar and white collar employess, became a union stewart, etc. Just 4 years later, he became one of the managers earning a hefty salary. One of my neighbors was a corporate junior executive who was laid off of his financial management job due to "downsizing". He was still paying back his college loans, which were high. Though deep in debt, he was aggressive. He quickly looked at different career options. I was surprised when he went to work for a Toyota dealership as a salesman. Though he initially had a bit of a "snooty" attitude, he discovered that salesmen with good people skills make as much or more money than their "degreed" bosses. My point is, don't be discouraged, but don't sit still. You may have to put the hobby on a "temporary hold", and seriously explore career options. They're out there! Here in Florida, "High End" collision repair shops are desperate for Collision Estimators. A good, computer literate, well organized estimator today at a large Cadillac dealership can earn an easy $65,000 per year. There is also a demand for teachers, transit authority professionals, Auto parts store managers, insurance adjustors, teachers, etc. You may be feeling depressed at times, which is normal but not healthy. I KNOW! Do your career research and go for it. If what your aspiring for is currently not available, take a "positive detour". LIke my friend above, he really enjoys mass transit. It is possible to get to that stage where paying $120 or so for a locomotive won't be a big deal. But always take care of home and debt first.
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"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45 Student of the Big Blue Sky, You've been a long time member and I've always enjoyed reading your posts and have a lot of respect for how sincere your thoughts are always expressed. (Remember our forum friend "UP8998" back when your forum name here was "Grayhound Challenger"? Man, was he a character!! ) Anyway, a lot of changes have occured with various forum members since 2003, when I joined. Since then, in your situation, are more opportunites opening up for you career wise? I know that there are many jobs that have been outsourced, however, there are many other career positions that aren't going anywhere soon. Some of them pay quite well. Have you considered pursuing one of these routes? When I first joined. I was a heady sophmore in college flush with enthusiasm. Back then the future was bright, Prices had not gone nuts yet. and even though I was a college student tight on funds, I enjoyed a healthy amount of hobby participation. Then my parents tore down my layout, hobby prices have skyrocketed, I have had to pile on debt to finish school, and I seemed to develop a black mark against me some place. The job I work now pays just above minimum wage, and barely pays for this poor excuse for a one room apartment. keep something paletable in the fridge and keeps my hygene up to standard. I am looking for higher paying jobs. But any gains in pay I make are going to be swallowed up in paying my debts. Matter of fact, If I do not find a better paying job soon. the holders of my stuent loans are going to force me into bankruptcy. I am already preparing to sell a substantial portion of my train collection, Just to get them off my back for a while. The thought of that causes me a great deal of anguish. I was promised when I was little, Go to School get good grades so you can go to college and get a good job. Well I went to school, put up with a trainload of harrassment and abuse, went to college, and the good jobs I was promised evaporated, and our good freind Georgie Boy is making *** sure that unless you have 5 million in your bank acount to join the club. The great promise of America is off limits to anyone who has less. Oh and its clear that women are not very welcome iether. In the year I have been out of college, I have become very disallusioned and synical of everything. I apoligise if this starts to grate on people. Im not a greedy man and Im not asking for much. But it would be nice if I could afford a bed so I can stop sleeping in a sleeping bag on the floor. By the way. I should mention that I only have internet because it came "free" with the telephone service (Free because I am paying about $20.00 a month more than whats available in other towns) which my job requires me to have. $70.00 a month I could otherwise spend on something else. Disgruntled, and Dissolusioned. James
QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45 Student of the Big Blue Sky, You've been a long time member and I've always enjoyed reading your posts and have a lot of respect for how sincere your thoughts are always expressed. (Remember our forum friend "UP8998" back when your forum name here was "Grayhound Challenger"? Man, was he a character!! ) Anyway, a lot of changes have occured with various forum members since 2003, when I joined. Since then, in your situation, are more opportunites opening up for you career wise? I know that there are many jobs that have been outsourced, however, there are many other career positions that aren't going anywhere soon. Some of them pay quite well. Have you considered pursuing one of these routes?
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
QUOTE: OK perhaps I need read more carefully then. But I find it highly suscicious that most places just have spots to type your credit card in.
QUOTE: While I must admit that the SD40-2 was the most convenient example. Horizon discontinued alot of locomotives that I need to model given my GN 1969 time frame,because of their 'Wide Bodiedness" Its 6 scale inches. thats .083" one hight of code 83 rail. Is it really that big of an issiue?
QUOTE: of course, they will be replaced with the appropriet RPP shell when they get done upgrading them. But if the GP35 is any indication. They will be RTR. which we all agree on, is more expensive. Plust the fact that the scant undecs that they make will have to be dissasembled and if they use glue, that could be a rail problem.
QUOTE: First off what is an SHO????
QUOTE: This hobby, if we are still calling it that, is supposed to be an escape for a man or a women to escape the daily grind. A chance to bond with the kids, And maybe be a convienient tool for entertaining neighbors and freinds. The fact that they show off the best and the brightest isn't what bothers me. Its the fact that the tone that they take is, "If your ego is big eneugh, sexually defficient in some way, and have deep eneugh pockets, You to can experiene the joys of this latest Class X whatchagidget. Its only $399.95
QUOTE: I have a sizable library of magazines going back to the 70s before I was born. In a mid 1980s issiue of MR is an Article on how to detail and upgrade Bachmann's NYC Niagra and have it be the rival of brass. I am willing to bet that it still costs less than $249.99 that the BLI Niagra is listed for at Walthers.
QUOTE: When I get the chance.I have several monogram big boys I have purchased with the intention of motorizing them. I have called Bowser and they will let me puchase just their big boy mechanism for $125.00 So my big boys will cost each as follows... (snip) That gives me a nicely detailed Big Boy at the following Prices. DC. $174.94 DCC$194.89 DCCwSound $249.94 Athearn's Genisis Big Boy will be $449.98 and Precicion Craft Model's Big Boy is going to be $749.99
QUOTE: As I have shown. A person can build their own and come out ahead. I realise that just for the 6 that I have at my current budget Im looking at 7 months of cutting expenses to the bone and saving until I can purchase what I need to build just one. But to get Athearn's I would have to wait 18 months and both you and I know they are going to be out of stock by then.
QUOTE: However my point is, the current climate that is in place. Everyone wants to shame and ridicule me because Its like Im not even playing the game. Is it jealousy against people who have craftsman skills??? Its just nuts.
QUOTE: Through is Trains of Thought column, he has openly admitted that any locomotives and rolling stock that were on his AM that can be used on his new NKP venture. Instead of repainting them himself in the finest of RMC tradition. What did he do? Sent them off to some place in Michigan to be repainted and have Sound Decoders installed. How uncraftsman like of a former editor of a magazine that is about nothing but craftsmanship
QUOTE: While Mr. Keoster rightfully makes several good points. Especially towards the end. The tone of his article is clearly comes off as If you aren't modeling some prototype railroad down to every last door hinge, running DCC with sound. Your layout is not "good eneugh" to even be a model railraod. However, Look at all those nice expensive new items that make it easy for you to get back up to snuff.
QUOTE: That very well may be true. But fact is. I simply can't afford to pay what they are asking. And I am not going to. But now I have a problem because noboday makes anything I can afford. Bachmann's GP30 and 35s are avaialable in that price range I can somewhat handle. But everyone here says the decoders that are in them are terrible so I have to tack on another $20.00 to change out the decoder. And thats if I decide I can even afford DCC to begin with.
QUOTE: The owner does appreciate my continued choice of doing business there. However this particluar LHS that does 85% of its business in Lionel trains. And HO, & N scale are all along the back wall, with the hobby supplikes like paints glue and decals at the back ends of the isle counters. Because of this the two guys he has working behind the counter are total Lional-TCM Junkies. and think the HO and N scale people should be to just because those features are now available to thos of us in that scale. Those two have made me leave the store without a purchase several times.
QUOTE: Originally posted by beegle55 Prices are just a tad high, but we can manage. I think the hobby is doing well, but I hope youngsters like myself (14) will get interested into this hobby!
QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul3 I just went to one of the biggest train dealers around at http://www.trainworld.com/orderform.htm, and look right at the top of the form... It says, "Please complete the order form and mail it, with check or money order"
QUOTE: I'm afraid you'll have to shop around. Or special order it from a Horizon dealer. From what I saw on Athearn's website, another run of SD40-2 kits are due out this Spring, so I'd start hunting ASAP. They are being made, but as you know, they just aren't as profitable for a retailer to keep in stock. I'm positive someone will order it for you, but to carry it? (shrug) I can't blame a retailer for trying to stock more expensive merchandise if he can sell it. I've worked in small business retail for 17 years, and it's hard enough to compete as it is. A store would have to sell twice as many kits as RTR to see the same profit... So if a retailer can sell a dozen $90 RTR SD40-2's vs. even 18 $56 kits, a retailer (and any other kind of successfull small business owner) is going to want to sell those RTR's. It just makes business sense...
QUOTE: Maybe an SHO? Anyways, that was kind of my point. You aren't going to find too many (if any) "average" products in any hobby magazine. They are all going to highlight the best and brightest over the cheap and mundane. Why be surprised or disappointed in MR for doing the same thing?
QUOTE: QUOTE: Everyone from Phil Walthers, Terry Thompson, and Tony Keoster, To Johny train geek at the counter in Nowhere wyoming hobby shop says High teck high featured new stuff makes you a "true" model railroader, anything less, your just playing with toys. Oh and for christ sakes, Dont you dare build something by yourself. Thats just unmodelrailroadly. If you get caught scratchbuilding Tony Keoster is going to lead the Model Rairlaod police swat team on your workbench himself. I don't suppose you have a quote to back you up on that? Or are you just projecting your angst on others without reason? Also, you do realize how silly you sound going off on Tony K. for being anti-scratch building, don't you? He was the editor of Railroad Model Craftsman for years, for pete's sake.
QUOTE: Everyone from Phil Walthers, Terry Thompson, and Tony Keoster, To Johny train geek at the counter in Nowhere wyoming hobby shop says High teck high featured new stuff makes you a "true" model railroader, anything less, your just playing with toys. Oh and for christ sakes, Dont you dare build something by yourself. Thats just unmodelrailroadly. If you get caught scratchbuilding Tony Keoster is going to lead the Model Rairlaod police swat team on your workbench himself.
QUOTE: "During a recent discussion about the design and theme for a new HO model railroad, the topic of "good eneugh" -a benchmark of the state of the art created by Allen McClelland for his orginal HO scale Virginian & Ohio- came up. What will it take we wondered for a model railroad to be considered good eneugh in the 21st Century? Here are my top ten attributes in no particular order. 1.Prototype BasedL Many, perhaps most new model railraods either embrace a specific prototype or, if freelanced, are prototype based. This trend is partly the result of manufacturors and importers producing accurate, well detailed, models, making the tast of modeling one railroad much easier. The wealth of information in magasines, books, videos, the internet, and from railroad historical societies is also a factor, as is the increaced ease of sharing information. Freelacning isn't going out of style. Several excellent "rivet-counting" modelers have recently decided to build freelanced model railroads. Nor is "free-style" freelancing passe; the free spritis among us are unlikely to be swayed by any rationaliuzation that inhibites their options. 2: Sound:The layouts I managed to see during the National Model Rairlaod association's 2005 convention in Cincinnati all featured locomotives with sound. The next step will be to add background sounds. Chirping birds. clanking industries, roaring traffic, barking dogs, - and several firms have products of this type. 3. DCC Like sound many of us either are using digital command control, or we're offering excuses as to why we don't have it yet. Radio cabs are also gaining popularity. Conventional DC control will be around forever, but the advantages of DCC are clear. 4 Fineness of Detail: The days when clunky window mullions, handrails and grab irons 6 scale inches in diameter, and trees that look like bottle brushes were accetable, are thankfully behind us. Scale-size HO couplers are becoming a defacto standard. Smaller flanges and narrow whell treads are coming to. such as "code 88" (.088 wide) HO Wheels. 5. Realisitc operation: if our railroads don't operate as realistically as they look, we're giving up alot of value we already paid for. 6. Staging: Almost everyone now seems to understand that trains should appear to come from and go to places beyond the layout. Now the debate is centered on wheather to use passive staging traks or active fiddle trackswere trains are remade during, rather than before, an operating session. 7. Backwards Engineering: Pick your operating goals first. Then design the railraod to achieve them. Thats why multilevel layouts have become so common. Now we need to do a better job of planning our layout illumination up front. 8. Edit your goals. Just because your new home has a gymnasium size basement doesn't mean you should model all of your favorite railroads. Pick one and do it well. 9. Slow Down! Retired professional rairlaoder Jack Ozanich urges fellow modelers to take the time to enjoy rairlaoding in miniature. We still run too fast. And arguments that we dont have time to, say dictate and copy train orders are largely based on our lack of understandingof and appreciation for how the pros did their jobs. 10. Pay Attention: see what others are doing. If everyone in your circle is using brand x DCC, for example, thats a huge knowledge base that you'll be wise to tap ino. Model rairlaod operators from coast to coast understand four cycle waybills in car cards, but we seem to be reinventing this wheel with hard to decipher new systems offering few tangible benifits. That said, If you do come up with a really great new idea, be sure to share it with the rest of us. After all we'd still be running silent locomotives using car batteries of someone with a better idea hadn't stepped forward."
QUOTE: And I'm sure your LHS appreciates your loyalty...but then why are they giving you the business for not buying the latest and greatest?
QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate It's possible to shop online safely and use a credit card. Just get a separate credit card for online use only (do NOT use your bank account debit card) and if anything fishy ever happens with it, dispute the charge, report the card stolen, and have them issue you a new card. Easy as you please. People can take your money order and "run", never sending you any goods -- and good luck disputing it. Money orders are almost as bad as sending cash. Little or no recourse if you are ever cheated.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue That maybe true I can "Shop" around for bargains any ole online train store. But most of these online establishments do not take accept check or money order. Or at least I can not find a place that says they do. And since Internet Identity theft is rampant, Im not about to be flashing my credit card number across cyber space no matter how well its encrypted.
QUOTE: That maybe true I can "Shop" around for bargains any ole online train store. But most of these online establishments do not take accept check or money order. Or at least I can not find a place that says they do. And since Internet Identity theft is rampant, Im not about to be flashing my credit card number across cyber space no matter how well its encrypted.
QUOTE: Ok fine. But if Kits are still avaialable. WHERE THE HECK ARE THEY? Even those online stores that I can shop with my credit card, seem not to have them. In my 2001 walthers catalog. The SD40-2s are listed at $44.95. SD40-2 kits might now be $56.50. But nobody has them it seems, so we are then stuck with the $89.95 RTR version.
QUOTE: That maybe true I can enjoy my chevy's fords' and dodges. But when was the last time you saw a ford Taurus station wagon in Hot Rod Magazine?
QUOTE: You are right, This is supposed to be a hobby. But without going into all the painful details. My life has been positivly crappy. And my family and model trains have been the only positive force in my life. So I am sorry if my fantasy life is the only life I feel like living. The job I have only has to keep the trains running. And I wouldn't be so upset, except that the only apparent motivation for all these crazy prices is nothing other than plain ole greed.
QUOTE: Because technology is faulty and my life seems to be run by Murphey's law. I do use E-bay alot. But that gives me the option of check or money order. And I do use money order for somethings because my hobby shop tells me I can't get them. But I use my LHS because I have a sense of loyalty. I have had problems with stuff from mail order and I have had to fix it. When ever I had a problem at the LHS, they took care of it. I guess I just ask for to much.
QUOTE: And worse still, fully *half* of all Americans make below median wage. Now *that* needs to be corrected ...
QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate QUOTE: Originally posted by RedGrey62 ... did you know that 50% of the people make up half the population? Rick And worse still, fully *half* of all Americans make below median wage. Now *that* needs to be corrected ... [swg]
QUOTE: Originally posted by RedGrey62 ... did you know that 50% of the people make up half the population? Rick
QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate And worse still, fully *half* of all Americans make below median wage. Now *that* needs to be corrected ... [swg]
QUOTE: Originally posted by alco_fan Huh? There are brick-and-mortar hobby shops advertising the RTR models for under 60 bucks in this month's RMC (probably MR, too, I happened to have the RMC with me). I'm sure they'd take a money order and you could buy RTR for the same price you say you are willing to pay for a kit. Have you shopped around at all? Jon
QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue In my 2001 walthers catalog. The SD40-2s are listed at $44.95. SD40-2 kits might now be $56.50. But nobody has them it seems, so we are then stuck with the $89.95 RTR version.