The future of the hobby and an interesting statistic.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by PennsyHoosier

Kids may like their video games (mine do), but they don't last. They have to buy another, and another, and another, and another...

The pike keeps on going...

Yep the pleasures of a project that is never done.

James

[PennsyHoosier]

Kids may like their video games (mine do), but they don't last. They have to buy another, and another, and another, and another...

The pike keeps on going...

[ngartshore350]

I remember at University getting it drummed into us about statistics and determining their reliability, especially if they were from the internet!

I wouldn't have thought that I was in the 1/6 at 175 square feet it's only 17.5 x 10.

I think the future is fine, heaps of new products and there is a growing list of manufacturers, mind you a comet will really slow things down a bit.

Keeping the hobby going depends on our investment in our kids, my 4 year old loves it, and I let here drive and she thinks it great, mind you it scares the life out of me when she runs a 35ft long train flat out, but most of the time it hangs in there (Sorry I man 97.54353% of the time[;)])

NG

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon
Holodeck of the "Enterprise", perhaps? [:D]

Andre

I have found fellow TREKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me do you think Star Trek and Model Trains mix well??

James

Not really.

I'm not really a Trekkie, either. I watched the show for a while and lost interest.

Andre

[tomikawaTT]

I don't know if Star Trek and Model Trains mix well, but I do know one person who models the gritty aspects of the transition era and writes science fiction (he's the one pounding this keyboard!)

As a retired statistician, I notice one very significant flaw in the original post that no one (including me in my first post to this thread) has picked up on:
WHAT SCALES ARE REPRESENTED IN EACH OF THE LAYOUT SIZES LISTED??
4-by-8 in O scale is an engine terminal (Designed by John Armstrong a long time ago.)
4-by-8 in Z scale is an empire!
Can anyone imagine a basement-filling Z-scale layout? (The entire BNSF, selectively compressed?) Sort of like having the high school gym for HO, a hangar at the local airport for O, or half a township for your G scale garden pike!

For that matter, layout size is a very poor indicator of the health of the hobby. In Japan, where the average house is about the size of my living-dining room, most home layouts are either modules or microscopic. Yet Japan has a large and active model railroading population that supports numerous manufacturers of purely Japanese prototype items, kit and RTR. If anyone wants to see how much can be crammed into a dozen square feet, find a copy of Tetsudo Mokei Shumi (Japan's MR) and check out the featured layouts. (Have a towel handy to catch the drool.) If you don't have a lot of square centimeters to work with, you can compensate by hyperdetailing every square centimeter.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon
Holodeck of the "Enterprise", perhaps? [:D]

Andre

I have found fellow TREKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me do you think Star Trek and Model Trains mix well??

James

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bill H.
If you're familiar with, say, RT3, for example, one can build and run railroads all over the world, haul all manner of freight, (to REAL destinations which yield REAL results), and in every imaginable time period with almost any kind of equipment that was ever produced, not to mention dealing in Real Estate, Stock Market, Futures and as cut-throat in business as you choose to be. Not a bad deal....

....THIS, my friends, is where the future is headed. This and places like it. The future will offer better and better programs. The above is only one of what's currently out there.

I can see it now. 200 years from now. You walk up to this door. and say

"computer. Union Pacific railroad. Cheyanne Wyoming Circa 1948 locomtive of choice. Big Boy type # 4004 Train a west bound Reefer Extra. Going over Track Three on Sherman Hill to Laramie Wyoming.

The computer computes for a few secods.

annouces "Enter when Ready"

you walk throuigh the door and your standing on a cool fall day at the locmotive ready track in Cheyanne.

That scenario sounds very familiar.

James

Holodeck of the "Enterprise", perhaps? [:D]

Andre

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bill H.

Hmmmmm... Lots of opinion. No real answers.

Suppose we consider the now common as dirt PC. In the recent past, the only way to run trains was work for the railroad, or build a layout.

If you're familiar with, say, RT3, for example, one can build and run railroads all over the world, haul all manner of freight, (to REAL destinations which yield REAL results), and in every imaginable time period with almost any kind of equipment that was ever produced, not to mention dealing in Real Estate, Stock Market, Futures and as cut-throat in business as you choose to be. Not a bad deal.

All for $25 or so at WalMart. There exists support, upgrades, forums, etc. Take a look.

http://theterminal.dune2k.com/

Don't like what you've built? No problem, hit reload and start over. No big deal. Do it any way you want to. Going away? Load it on your laptop and take it with you. The WHOLE thing.

Live in a college dorm, a mobile home, a freaking TENT? You can have a railroad which covers the entire country. Tired of it? Exit the program. Done.

THIS, my friends, is where the future is headed. This and places like it. The future will offer better and better programs. The above is only one of what's currently out there.

Do I like RT3? Yep, sure do.

While I agree, Bill, that for at least splinter faction of hobbyists (especially with space constraints), together perhaps with a certain percentage of the "gamers", computer generated layouts will be a significant facet in the future, this definitely is not model railroading in the classic sense, any more than playing a computer raceway game qualifies you a NASCAR driver.

Model railroading is a craft that requires realworld talents in multiple areas. These don't translated to computer generated images. Nor can the end result be judged in terms of a person's actual modeling abilities, as the computer will undoubtedly be automatically making many necessary adjustments and additions (it certainly wouldn't be necessary to build a forest or and urban scene one item/element at a time, nor require the modeling abilities to do so). Computer generated "layouts" are really is part of the graphic arts and not model railroading. And it has already been pretty much indicated in the Letters columns of both MR and RMC, as well as here on-line following published articles addressing this subject, that the majority of model railroaders do not accept computer "layouts" as a real extention of the hobby, nor its logical evolution into the future. Such "layouts" are, and likely will be, considered a hobby unto themselves in the future.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bill H.
If you're familiar with, say, RT3, for example, one can build and run railroads all over the world, haul all manner of freight, (to REAL destinations which yield REAL results), and in every imaginable time period with almost any kind of equipment that was ever produced, not to mention dealing in Real Estate, Stock Market, Futures and as cut-throat in business as you choose to be. Not a bad deal....

....THIS, my friends, is where the future is headed. This and places like it. The future will offer better and better programs. The above is only one of what's currently out there.

I can see it now. 200 years from now. You walk up to this door. and say

"computer. Union Pacific railroad. Cheyanne Wyoming Circa 1948 locomtive of choice. Big Boy type # 4004 Train a west bound Reefer Extra. Going over Track Three on Sherman Hill to Laramie Wyoming.

The computer computes for a few secods.

annouces "Enter when Ready"

you walk throuigh the door and your standing on a cool fall day at the locmotive ready track in Cheyanne.

That scenario sounds very familiar.

James

[Bill H.]

Hmmmmm... Lots of opinion. No real answers.

Suppose we consider the now common as dirt PC. In the recent past, the only way to run trains was work for the railroad, or build a layout.

If you're familiar with, say, RT3, for example, one can build and run railroads all over the world, haul all manner of freight, (to REAL destinations which yield REAL results), and in every imaginable time period with almost any kind of equipment that was ever produced, not to mention dealing in Real Estate, Stock Market, Futures and as cut-throat in business as you choose to be. Not a bad deal.

All for $25 or so at WalMart. There exists support, upgrades, forums, etc. Take a look.

http://theterminal.dune2k.com/

Don't like what you've built? No problem, hit reload and start over. No big deal. Do it any way you want to. Going away? Load it on your laptop and take it with you. The WHOLE thing.

Live in a college dorm, a mobile home, a freaking TENT? You can have a railroad which covers the entire country. Tired of it? Exit the program. Done.

THIS, my friends, is where the future is headed. This and places like it. The future will offer better and better programs. The above is only one of what's currently out there.

Do I like RT3? Yep, sure do.

[Anonymous]

Speaking for myself, I am returning to the hobby at age 32. I don't think it is dying; however, it would help if the magazine subscriptions weren't so expensive! My favorite car magazine is about $18 for two years; probably because the aftermarket parts market is huge, and advertisers are willing to pay more to the magazine publishers than model train manufacturers. Lately, I have been sticking more to buying Model Railroad books for that very reason. Also, I got my first Walthers catalogue in 15 years and was surprised, no SHOCKED at how expensive some of these small parts have gotten. That said, it's still nice to be able to do a small afternoon project for little or no money, compared to putting parts on your car!!!

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironpenguin

QUOTE: Those truly interested can peruse the MR archives and eventually locate the proper thread.

I was truly interested and couldn't find it. Why the reluctance to help locate it? At least tell me the topic of the thread.

I've e-mailed you off-line, Mike.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman

CNJ, For what it's worth, I've RARELY seen you post anything positive about anything.. Anytime anybody has an idea, a thought or a question, you are somewhere in there knocking it down in one way or another. One that immediately comes to mind, someone asked on the layout forum about mortar lines and how to do them. Your reply was some crap about not being able to see mortar lines from 300 feet away (I'm paraphrasing a little here) as if that should cure the OPs interest in doing them. Well, I for one, from 300 feet away, Can see mortar lines on some buildings. Largely 90% (and I'm being conservative here) of your responses to people's requests for advice seem in the same vein. You love to predict the gloom and doom end of the hobby and then when asked to support your theories, you come back with the BS above, stating that you are being attacked and stating to the effect of "if you don't believe me, go find my other posts on the subject".. It is you who wishes to make the point, it is solely your place to put up the facts you claim to reference. My entry into this thread was questioning your statement that closing MRR shops was a real indicator of declining interest and you come back with

My posts are typically very frank, in response to questions from sometimes rather uninformed hobbyists. You or others may not like the answers I provide because they don't agree with your outlook but they are nevertheless honest and true. My response to the business regarding motar lines, as you cite, is correct. Typically, a person will not see motar "lines" on most brick structures at a distance of three hundred feet or more. You may preceive some sort of variegation in the texture of the walls but you will not clearly see any lines unless the motar is in strikingly color contrasts with a new laid dark brick, or as the result of recently pointing-up specific areas of the brickwork. A view, or photo, of any large urban scene will not show motar lines on brick buildings unless they are very near the observer. The appearance is of a monolithic structures. The original thread was illustrated in some cases by hobbyist's efforts that were down right caricaturish and unrealistic, simply because of their addition of motar lines. This is not a matter of my opinion, it's the truth...as are my other responses.

QUOTE:
The hobby has been cycling since it's genesis with ups and downs, baby boomers are NOT the only MRs out there, and in the past 10-15 years, we have a new tool to add to the arzenal (had to spell it that way, trains.com blocks the proper spelling) of information and places to shop. The internet. No, I don't believe the hobby is dying, but I'll give that it's changing. The statement that the death of the baby boomer is the death of the hobby is pure bull. If you love the hobby as you Say you do, WHAT are YOU doing to perpetuate it?? Absolutely nothing from what I can see.

This paragraph demonstrates you have no comprehension of the hows and whys of the hobby's current situation. While there have indeed been fluctuations in hobby interest over the years, this is totally overshadowed by the fact that the Boomer generation is vast both in importance and in relative numbers compared to other generations. This weighs very heavily on the hobby's future. What the Boomers do and spend money on becomes popular - when they pass, interest will return to former levels or will outright disappear. The rise of the Boomers in the USA just happened to coincide with a time when social and demographic conditions were at their zenith for a broad interest in model trains to arise. Neither situation, particularly the former, is ever likely to recur. Anyone who looks into the matter seriously will realize this immediately. And once the Boomers have passed into history, the hobby as we know it MUST return to, or sink below, the level of interest it had attained around the time of WWII. Nothing can, nor will, change that.

As to my own efforts to, as you say "perpetuate the hobby"...for about 20 years I participated in various clubs that displayed modular layouts at various shows and public functions. In the case of one of the clubs, I taught construction and scenicking methology as applied to modules from the ground up, since the group had no familiarity in that area at all. About ten years ago I reactivated a long defunct NMRA Division in my area. It continues today. I have also written articles about, as well as given presentations at NMRA meetings on, the subject of realistic, extreme close-up, model railroad photography. In addition, I have also had three articles published in RMC addressing the early history of HO scale locomotives in the hobby. And yourself?

Yet, in spite of my own efforts, I have never deluded myself into thinking they would have any significant altering effect of the longterm evolution, popularity, and future of the hobby. I appreciate the fact that you can't go home again.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Those truly interested can peruse the MR archives and eventually locate the proper thread.

I was truly interested and couldn't find it. Why the reluctance to help locate it? At least tell me the topic of the thread.

Mike Tennent

[Anonymous]

As I stated in my first post. I do not believe that the Model Railraoding hobby is doomed.

Many are correct in that my initial posting on this thread is almost an exact copy of a post I did on another thread. In my defense after I posted my coments that started that thread to the other post it went dorment for 4 days. And I felt what I had to say was important eneugh for consideration, that I reposted it in its own thread.

Since I initially posted this thread I did come across the article which contained the data I used in my initial post. It was an article about model railroading in the march 1997 Issiue of Boys Live by Robert Schliecher. Maybe those figures have changed in the past 9 years but not by much.

Hare are some things to consider. If the hobby is in such dire straights then please explain the following.

1. Why do manufactures continue to produce more and more new items every year. Walthers alone seems to come out with 5 or 6 new buildings and 10 or 12 new pieces of rolling stock every year.

2. If the hobby is dieing. Why are there as of 23:32 MST 546 pages of HO Scale model railroad items alone on Ebay. And that number keeps going up. I remember when the everage number was 250 pages then 300 pages then 350 pages. and since most of the people in this country subscribe to the capitalist doctrin. One can only assume that there is a demand and that demand that seeks to to be satisfied via e-bay is being filled.

3. If the hobby is going to die when the baby boomers die, Then why are there a large number of people I see that are in the 18-24 catagory surely we are going to continue in the hobby. We may reject the obseen prices that are now being asked. But we will be around. If anything when the baby boomers die we will buy their Steam engines and diesels cheap.

4. A related note. Some one previously up in the forum said that the offspring of baby boomers are not replacing the baby boomers on a one for one basis. But isn't it also true that the Baby Boomers did not have as many children as their parents did? My Grandparents on my moms side had 7 Chidren. My Grandparents on my Dads side had 8. How many did my parents have? 3. And it seems the average number of kids per house hold is 2. To Illiminate my point If we fallow the liniage of my mothers brothers and sisters. Each of my moms brothers and sisters got married. One sister never had children. So she is removed from the gene pool. Of the 6 that were left. One child had 4 kids.Three children had three kids and the rest had 2. So our initial group of 7 children produced another generation of 17 kids. So it took the reproductive efforts of two of the offspring to match the reprodutvie efforts of the parents. Sounds like to me that the baby boomers aren't having as many kids as their parents did.

Now for sake of argument assume that out of each generation 1/20 of the population takes up model railroading. But if one generation (The baby boomers) does not reproduce the same number of offspring as the previous generation (Baby Boomers Parents) . Isn't the 1/20 of the next generation (Us Kids of the baby boomers) going to be smaller than the 1/20 of the generation befor it?

So I feel that model railroading is alive in well among my contemporaries (I am 23 Years old and Fall within the 18-24 age bracket) We just aren't as numborous as you baby boomers so our desires and interests are being drowned out by you older people who are probably close to retirement Your children are iether out of the house or so close to being out of the hosue it doesn't matter. And thus have more time and money than us busy bodies who have to worry about getting through school establishing a career and getting a foot hold in this great big pain in the rear end world of ours. I am sure when I am in my 30s. I will have a layout well under way and trains running. And alot more time than I have now. Especially since my marriage prospects are bleak and thus my chances of ever having children slim. Just me, my proverbial dog, and my trains. But lots of trains.

My prediction for the hobby in 30 years. Kits will be gone. Everything will be Ready to Run. DCC and Sound will probably be standard. But It won't be as expensive as it is now. Because frankly $400.00 for a diesel locomotive is just nuts. (Tower 55 ES44AC) A system of benchwork will be invented for the carpentry impaired. (Sad because everyone should develop a basic knowledge of how to build things) And we will probably be exploring new exotica such as animated figurines that actually walk and talk and have "a life" and are controlled by some means of artifical intelligence. And then there will be people like me who buy all the borken down Locomotives that all the people who buy RTR don't know how to fix (Probably be somthing simple as a fried decoder, [theory holds that separate decoders shoulds till be available given the fact of 75+ years of Model Railroadings existance prior to DCC. But I am figuring out how to make my own just in case]) Train layouts will probably be smaller. And movable since It is fact that my generation will probably never see things like pensions and Job security went out the window 20 years ago. At the rate we are going we will be lucky if we even get our Social Security Benifits. And then probably if we only work into our late 90s at that.

So Is model railraoding Doomed? No

Is Model Railroading expereincing fundamental changes. Yes.

Are those changes going to be interesting? Only if you come out from your hidey hole (as I have) and stop complaining how the sky is falling.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironpenguin

QUOTE: go back through some of the past threads on this subject. Last summer we had a discussion that went on for pages. Therein I presented 10 points based on published figures available for anyone who wished to to verify them as to how the hobby was slipping downhill over the past 20 years.

I went back and found that thread (I think) a while back and the only thing I saw was an argument based on magazine subscriptions. Maybe that wasn't what you're talking about? Why not go ahead and post your 10 points again here? I'd like to see them.

No, Mike, that certainly doesn't sound like the one. The thread I was referring to included points regarding increasing hobbyists' age, current social pressures affecting the hobby, product production numbers, changes in marketing strategies, changes in company ownership, pricing and target audience, the WGH, as well as declining magazine subscription figures.

I really see no point in re-listing the items in light of the hostile responses my knowledge of the subject has resulted in here - a truly sad reflection on the caliber of hobbyists we have here. Those truly interested can peruse the MR archives and eventually locate the proper thread.

CNJ831

CNJ, For what it's worth, I've RARELY seen you post anything positive about anything.. Anytime anybody has an idea, a thought or a question, you are somewhere in there knocking it down in one way or another. One that immediately comes to mind, someone asked on the layout forum about mortar lines and how to do them. Your reply was some crap about not being able to see mortar lines from 300 feet away (I'm paraphrasing a little here) as if that should cure the OPs interest in doing them. Well, I for one, from 300 feet away, Can see mortar lines on some buildings. Largely 90% (and I'm being conservative here) of your responses to people's requests for advice seem in the same vein. You love to predict the gloom and doom end of the hobby and then when asked to support your theories, you come back with the BS above, stating that you are being attacked and stating to the effect of "if you don't believe me, go find my other posts on the subject".. It is you who wishes to make the point, it is solely your place to put up the facts you claim to reference. My entry into this thread was questioning your statement that closing MRR shops was a real indicator of declining interest and you come back with

QUOTE:
You bet I can...at least to the accuracy of a decade time frame. Its absolutely predicated on the disappearance of the elder Baby Boomers from the hobby...because essentially they are the hobby. There are no replacements for their huge numbers waiting in the wings and as time passes we are seeing ever fewer newbies, the prices of quality items is rising dramatically, and public interest in trains is dwindling. The decline is already obvious in many areas and when you've reduced the number of hobbyists to 1/3 of what it is today (the Boomers account for nearly 2/3 now), you likely won't have a viable mass market. That will happen roughly around 2025. It's simple arithmetic

The hobby has been cycling since it's genesis with ups and downs, baby boomers are NOT the only MRs out there, and in the past 10-15 years, we have a new tool to add to the arzenal (had to spell it that way, trains.com blocks the proper spelling) of information and places to shop. The internet. No, I don't believe the hobby is dying, but I'll give that it's changing. The statement that the death of the baby boomer is the death of the hobby is pure bull. If you love the hobby as you Say you do, WHAT are YOU doing to perpetuate it?? Absolutely nothing from what I can see.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

QUOTE: Originally posted by alco_fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon
So why is so much bandwidth taken up with predictions of imminent hobby demise (see similar thread "A Wakeup Call")?

It's the same two or three people (and espeically one) who've chosen this topic to use to conitnually draw attention to themslelves, I guess. No other purpose makes sense.

When you consider the hundreds of people who visit this site regularly and the thousands that visit occasionally, I guess it's only natural that a handful decide to would attack the hobby itself to garner attention.

I've contibuted to the problem by trying to post logical data to these threads, which is simply shouted down by the gloom and doomers. That exchange just keeps moving the thread to the front page -- even more attention for the Chicken Littles.

Why is it that if someone has spent considerable time researching the facts surrounding the hobby's past history, current state and demonstrative future, then presents those facts when a discussion about them arises, that they are branded as Chicken Littles, insulted and worse on this forum? Presenting facts and figures is not knocking the hobby, only simply and unemotionally pointing out where the hobby has been, is now and where it's going. Are posters here truly so narrow minded and naive that name calling is their only avenue of response to unpleasant facts?

Please - and I've asked this continuously for over four years now without response - if you have done serious research into the background material involved and have verifiable facts and figures that indicate a healthy and growing hobby, with a glowing future, post them. No one would be more interested in seeing such numbers then I.

CNJ831

If the hobby's dying, what are you doing in an attempt to reverse the trend?

As I said before, I have 2 granddaughters who love Thomas the Tank. The 5 year old also likes to watch grown-up train videos with Grandpa Choo Choo. I'm trying to nurture that interest and expand it. Maybe one or both will become model railroaders.

Then there's my 4 month old grandson......

Andre

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironpenguin

QUOTE: go back through some of the past threads on this subject. Last summer we had a discussion that went on for pages. Therein I presented 10 points based on published figures available for anyone who wished to to verify them as to how the hobby was slipping downhill over the past 20 years.

I went back and found that thread (I think) a while back and the only thing I saw was an argument based on magazine subscriptions. Maybe that wasn't what you're talking about? Why not go ahead and post your 10 points again here? I'd like to see them.

No, Mike, that certainly doesn't sound like the one. The thread I was referring to included points regarding increasing hobbyists' age, current social pressures affecting the hobby, product production numbers, changes in marketing strategies, changes in company ownership, pricing and target audience, the WGH, as well as declining magazine subscription figures.

I really see no point in re-listing the items in light of the hostile responses my knowledge of the subject has resulted in here - a truly sad reflection on the caliber of hobbyists we have here. Those truly interested can peruse the MR archives and eventually locate the proper thread.

CNJ831

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alco_fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon
So why is so much bandwidth taken up with predictions of imminent hobby demise (see similar thread "A Wakeup Call")?

It's the same two or three people (and espeically one) who've chosen this topic to use to conitnually draw attention to themslelves, I guess. No other purpose makes sense.

When you consider the hundreds of people who visit this site regularly and the thousands that visit occasionally, I guess it's only natural that a handful decide to would attack the hobby itself to garner attention.

I've contibuted to the problem by trying to post logical data to these threads, which is simply shouted down by the gloom and doomers. That exchange just keeps moving the thread to the front page -- even more attention for the Chicken Littles.

Why is it that if someone has spent considerable time researching the facts surrounding the hobby's past history, current state and demonstrative future, then presents those facts when a discussion about them arises, that they are branded as Chicken Littles, insulted and worse on this forum? Presenting facts and figures is not knocking the hobby, only simply and unemotionally pointing out where the hobby has been, is now and where it's going. Are posters here truly so narrow minded and naive that name calling is their only avenue of response to unpleasant facts?

Please - and I've asked this continuously for over four years now without response - if you have done serious research into the background material involved and have verifiable facts and figures that indicate a healthy and growing hobby, with a glowing future, post them. No one would be more interested in seeing such numbers then I.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

It aint gonna die soon!

[selector]

[xx(] No, WAIT...!!!! I think I saw the horse move!!!

[Anonymous]

Don't worry the kids are fine. I'm 26 and in model railroading have been since I was about 9. In defense of The RTR stuff most kids really don't know the first thing about building kits so this gives them a chance to get into the hobby. It gives them a chance to have decent freight cars and buildings on their layout instead of all the trainset stuff like those of us who got into it back in the day had.

And If you're so scared about the future of model railroading then get out and promote it. Don't just stand around here preaching to the choir. Show your grandkids or kids trains. Introduce them to the hobby. Do some volunteer work setting up a layout at a community center. Don't just stand around with your thumb in your butt. Do something about it.

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alco_fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon
Hey dude, I'm one of those Baby Boomers you're castigating and I certainly don't fit into the above category.

I agree. That's why I originally posted some with italics for emphasis.

Sorry, I missed that.

Andre

[Anonymous]

I just attended the World's Greatest Hobby show a couple of days ago. By far, the majority of people there were young people with a lot of kids. I can't help but think that model railroading would rub off onto those young impressionable minds.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon
Hey dude, I'm one of those Baby Boomers you're castigating and I certainly don't fit into the above category.

I agree. That's why I originally posted some with italics for emphasis.

[andrechapelon]

alco_fan sez:

Maybe part of it is the hubris of the Baby Boomers .. some of them think that everything began with them and everything will die with them.

Hey dude, I'm one of those Baby Boomers you're castigating and I certainly don't fit into the above category. CNJ831 is only 1 Boomer out of millions.

Like I said, if one want the hobby to survive, one needs to get kids/grandkids interested or at least make the effort before slinking off in defeat.

Andre

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon
So why is so much bandwidth taken up with predictions of imminent hobby demise (see similar thread "A Wakeup Call")?

It's the same two or three people (and espeically one) who've chosen this topic to use to conitnually draw attention to themslelves, I guess. No other purpose makes sense.

When you consider the hundreds of people who visit this site regularly and the thousands that visit occasionally, I guess it's only natural that a handful decide to would attack the hobby itself to garner attention.

I've contibuted to the problem by trying to post logical data to these threads, which is simply shouted down by the gloom and doomers. That exchange just keeps moving the thread to the front page -- even more attention for the Chicken Littles.

Maybe part of it is the hubris of the Baby Boomers .. some of them think that everything began with them and everything will die with them.

Well, I've made myself a promise that this will be the last time I post to the now-weekly "the hobby is dying, it hit me on the head" threads. If we all did the same, we'd have more room for more interesting items.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

Although i prefer RTR I don't want to see kits disappear. I'm on a tight budget and need to save $$ wherever i can. For all the b-b fans (myself included) the SD40-2's are only $45 http://www.discounttrainsonline.com/search.php?term=sd40-2&mancode=140&category=LOC&department=HO&special=N&page=1 Get some while you still can.

$45! Wow, I remember when they where $19.50[:(]
Of course almost everything is RTR nowadays. Not much fun in that. It's not modeling anymore, it's let's watch trains go round and round.

[andrechapelon]

Sooner or later everyone currently participating on this forum is going to die.

Guaranteed.

So why is so much bandwidth taken up with predictions of imminent hobby demise (see similar thread "A Wakeup Call")?

If people are so all-fired worried about the demise of the hobby, what are they DOING about it? I have 2 granddaughters who just love Thomas the Tank and the elder one loves to watch prototype train videos with me. Whether or not that will translate down the line into one or both becoming full-fledged model railroaders, I don't know, but at least I can try to influence the outcome.

I don't know about my 4 month old grandson, but he's going to get the full course of brainw.... er, I mean gentle persuasion. [:D]

Andre