Costs of HO layouts

[gvdobler]

$15,000 over 25 years is a relatively low cost hobby, especially when you consider the enjoyment factor derived during that 25 years.

Hobbies in general, boats, cars, skydiving, almost evrything I can think of costs as much or more in much shorter time frames than 25 years. I have a garage full of RC airplanes. I have over $7,000 in just one of them. Everytime I fly it (3-4 times a month) I risk turning it back into a kit. At least with trains we don't risk them everytime we run them (barring a dive of the benchwork.)

It cost $150 to take four people out to a nice steak house for one meal, and that's doesn't even include a decoder.

I know the younger members may not agree, but they haven't graduated into the higher cost hobbies yet. Just to get a private pilot license is about $7-8 grand, before you can carry your first passenger along.

I'd say trains are a bargain.

[loathar]

My new layout is almost 100 sq.ft. and I plan on spending about $10,000 on it. So I guess around $100/sq. for me.
How much would train insurance cost for a 10 grand layout? I probably need to start thinking about that. (got some big trees next to my building that worry me in high wind)
Would home owners cover that?

[SpaceMouse]

There's no way my 5 x 8 is going to run $4000. My guess is closer to $2000. But I scrimp and save while all you guys pay full price.

[Bill H.]

Interesting thread.

IMO, MR has the advantage of being able to draw heavily on imagination to achieve it's goals. (Building flats, painted scenery, etc.) All of this is left to the choice of the modeler. One can start with as litttle as a piece of plywood and a prepackaged train set to begin. Where it goes from there is up to you.

Vintage cars can be a real PITA. I have a longstanding love/hate relationship with my '71 Corvette LT1 Conv. Think "rivet counters" are picky? Spend some time around the NCRS to see REAL picky.
example:

QUOTE: "That acceptance daub of paint on the inside chassis rail is a little too light in color and should be 3/8" further forward."

Gimme a break...

Someone wearing a 20K wristwatch questions YOUR choices?

...and so it goes.

[Anonymous]

I dont know how much spent in the hobby.

I do know that after 30 years it's in the thousands of dollars accumulated.

Same for computers. I once counted about 15,000 dollars in software over 20 years and perhaps half or more in machines to run them.

Good health by relieving stress and actually doing something enjoyable? Priceless! Especially when you consider room and board at the hospital approaching 1000 dollars a night.

[Anonymous]

It happens that I kept a running total on my previous layout (taken down in 2000 for a house move). Over an 11-year period I spent $5,940 EXCLUDING locomotives and rolling stock to complete a 128-square-foot layout to a decent scenery standard and a high detail standard. That works out to about $46 per square foot and about $540 / year although expenses were heaviest in the first three years. Its interesting to note that its quite like building a house – the basic structure is a smaller portion of the final cost than many would expect. The basics - lumber, track lighting, track, wiring, tools / materials / misc. -came to $2,165 or 36% of the total; fortunately the room was already finished other than inadequate lighting. Advanced DC throttles, switch machines and control panels came to $695 or 12% of the total. I built a number of structures, many of them craftsman and others kitbashed, and including a large number of extra details (I’m including the figures), and expenses there totaled $1,695 or 29% of the total. “Extras” – trees, professionally mounted backdrops, background building flats, street lamps, interior lighting, trackside details, vehicles – accounted for the remaining 23%. Over that period, I estimate that I also spent about $3,500 on rolling stock. This figure isn’t as bad as it seems since I model three different railroads on a “cycle” basis, i.e. only one on the layout at a given time. My largest total expense, however, has been on my stable of steam locomotives; embarrassment prevents me from revealing what I’ve spent on them. Thinking of what I "needed" for motive power and rolling stock (as opposed to "wanted"), I'd estimate that one can build and fully equip an excellent layout for no more than $75 / square foot.

As I work on my new, significantly larger layout, I’ve been able to recycle nearly everything from the first layout, and – mirabile dictu – am no longer purchasing rolling stock or motive power. So I’m finding that on either an annual or a total basis, the required “new” spending on the new layout is surprisingly modest (although I’m shocked by current lumber prices).

But I view it all as money well spent. The enjoyment has been, and still is, terrific, and as others have noted, the costs pale in comparison to many other male hobbies (not that I’m criticizing them).

[tatans]

Don't get caught up in the "I can build you a house for $135.00 a square foot" syndrome, of course he will build you a house for that ! Take a sheet of plywood=$40.00 a bunch of track= $300.00... 2 bags of plaster of paris $12.00 and a bunch of buildings and bridges= $250.00 whats that add up to??? OH I forgot ! 12 brass locomotives @ $2500.00 each and a bunch of brass cars for another $5,000: now your layout costs $150/foot. Assuming layouts by the square foot is not only wrong, it's dangerous and very inaccurate, just as it is in house building.

[jeffers_mz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Don't get caught up in the "I can build you a house for $135.00 a square foot" syndrome, of course he will build you a house for that ! Take a sheet of plywood=$40.00 a bunch of track= $300.00... 2 bags of plaster of paris $12.00 and a bunch of buildings and bridges= $250.00 whats that add up to??? OH I forgot ! 12 brass locomotives @ $2500.00 each and a bunch of brass cars for another $5,000: now your layout costs $150/foot. Assuming layouts by the square foot is not only wrong, it's dangerous and very inaccurate, just as it is in house building.

A power pack, wire and DPDT switches will add at least a hundred bucks to that total, and if you go with DCC you're looking at at least that to start, plus decoders andaccessories, more if you plan to control turnouts through DCC.

As it stands right now, your sheet of plywood is laying on the floor. For legs you need more wood, screws or bolts, etc. As long as you are willing to accept no scenery below the rail heigth, one piece of plywood will do the job, and you can use rolled up newspapers to make moderate hills, but any terrain higher or more complex than that will add to the total price in foam, glue and a caulk gun for the foam, wood for structural support, chicken wire to support the plaster, etc. That plaster needs to be painted too, unless you're planning to run The Polar Express exclusively.

You can nail your track directly onto the plywood sheet if you like, but it'll end up noisy and won't look prototypical at all. Options include plywood for roadbed and some sort of cushioning tiebed like cork or homasote. These items will add to the finished price.

Ballast for the track will include the price of ballast, glue and rubbing alcohol. Weathered track will cost even more for paint, chalk, india ink etc.

For fine adjustment you may need a package of rail spikes, plus your track nails, then there's uncouplers, coupler boxes, coupler springs, coupler gauges, coupler shims, and coupler screws. Some rolling stock will need drilled out to accept coupler box screws, even if you already have a drill there are tiny drill bits and perhaps a tap and die set to thread the holes.

By the time you stock up on hobby paints, weathering chalks, brushes, thinners, dullcote, etc, you'll see at least $100 bucks disappear for a minimal setup, add an airbrush, paint booth, compressor, and you're at more like $500 or more.

You can spend more for expensive rolling stock upfront, or you can go back through and replace the trucks with good one and replace plastic wheels with metal ones, either way you will end up with smooth rolling trains that spend more time on the track than off of it. Alternatives carry a price perhaps not measured in cold cash, but a price just the same.

I've spent many a month finishing construction jobs started by people who fell for the "HOW many dollars a foot? I can do it for WAY less" line of reasoning. It happens because of unrealistic planning. The big expenses are easy to see, and using them alone, you can "shave" a significant percentage off the price of the job. But without the details, the job isn't finished, and those who ignore the price of the details going in usually run into an unpleasant surprise down the road.

The people on this forum who's pictures represent the kind of finished product I want my layout to resemble mostly say they paid $100 to $150 a square foot. My reciepts verify similar expense, and I didn't include the woodshop already in place, free lumber, free foam and free fasteners, both nails and screws, and glue. I could probably have held expenses down to perhaps $75 a foot total, but the type of layout in this case specifies locomotives and rolling stock that isn't easy to get anymore. "Old time" anything is pretty hard to find. After extensive searching, I found sufficient quantities of it to set me up for the expected life of this layout, and rather than take a chance not being able to still get the stuff later on, bought it all at once. Most people will pick up a piece here and another there, over years, and that cost probably isn't reflected in their total cost estimates, at the very least a lot of items don't make the final accounting.

That's not to say you can't piece togather a railroad on a shoestring budget, you can and many do. But to think you're going to accurately estimate the costs going in without looking at the line item details is asking for an estimate that's flawed from the start. Get it wrong on your layout, it's a personal matter for you to work out. Get it wrong on a construction site and the lawyers get involved, usually followed by IRS types and consumer protection agencies. No fun to watch, even as a spectator who's making a small mint off the repair work and finishing the job at cost plus. Ignore the price of details at your own risk.

[BRAKIE]

Well,I have maintain over the years that one doesn't need to take out a second mortgage on the house to build a layout if we stay within a budget.There are several ways one can cut cost starting with the insulation foam which isn't really needed and buying lumber at the best price by buying at sale prices.
As far as tools I suspect we already have the tools needed out in the garage or tool shed so,there will be no special tool costs.We may have to buy a box of screws.

Buying our models at the best discount prices will shave hundreds of dollars off the costs same applies for KD couplers,springs,etc..Scenery items can also be had at discount prices.Joint compound can be had for 6.99 for a 5 pound bucket and works as well as plaster.

Now,remember another cost cutting factor could be the elimination of space eating mountains on smaller layouts,turn tables isn't needed unless you are running steam locomotives. Use high dollar vehicles in the fore ground and the less detailed vehicles in the back ground.Same applies for figures,structures etc.I call this the Hollywood effect..You see your eyes is tricked into seeing details that isn't there in the background by seeing higher detailed structures and vehicles in the foreground which your eyes will automatically focus on.
So,you can see how that $150.00/ft will shrink away to more reasonable costs per foot by buying at discount and buying lumber on sale or at one of the discount chain lumber companies.

[ericboone]

QUOTE: Originally posted by willy6

I read an article a few years ago in which it stated an HO layout is about $150.00 a square foot, not including YOUR labor.

This was in Model Railroad Planning 2004 in an article about how big your layout should be. The article starts on page 35 and the section on cost is on page 37. This cost was only for benchwork, track, scenery, and a control system. This means locomotives and rollingstock are not included. However, as previously stated, these costs are spread out over time.

[Jetrock]

One thing I keep seeing in these price estimates are "labor costs." If you're building a layout for someone else, I can see including them--but on your own layout, "labor" is otherwise known as "fun." (Well, frankly, it's fun even if you're building someone else's layout--getting paid for it is doubly fun!) Just like tinkering on cars, reloading, gardening, or other hobbies that sometimes involve lots of knuckle-banging and working on things. I think people are way too used to the idea that an activity isn't "fun" or "leisure" unless it involves sitting on one's tuchus watching things happen.

Probably the most important cost of model railroading, especially in a place like California, is the cost of the real estate needed for a layout! My house cost about $150 per square foot to buy, but in today's market more like $300-350 per square foot would be closer--which is why I built a shelf layout with storage above and below the layout, in my garage! A spare 10x10 foot bedroom dedicated to a layout (which I don't have, I live in a 1 bedroom house) would cost about $30,000, and that's without buying a single piece of rolling stock or track to run it on...