Costs of HO layouts

[Jetrock]

One thing I keep seeing in these price estimates are "labor costs." If you're building a layout for someone else, I can see including them--but on your own layout, "labor" is otherwise known as "fun." (Well, frankly, it's fun even if you're building someone else's layout--getting paid for it is doubly fun!) Just like tinkering on cars, reloading, gardening, or other hobbies that sometimes involve lots of knuckle-banging and working on things. I think people are way too used to the idea that an activity isn't "fun" or "leisure" unless it involves sitting on one's tuchus watching things happen.

Probably the most important cost of model railroading, especially in a place like California, is the cost of the real estate needed for a layout! My house cost about $150 per square foot to buy, but in today's market more like $300-350 per square foot would be closer--which is why I built a shelf layout with storage above and below the layout, in my garage! A spare 10x10 foot bedroom dedicated to a layout (which I don't have, I live in a 1 bedroom house) would cost about $30,000, and that's without buying a single piece of rolling stock or track to run it on...

[ericboone]

QUOTE: Originally posted by willy6

I read an article a few years ago in which it stated an HO layout is about $150.00 a square foot, not including YOUR labor.

This was in Model Railroad Planning 2004 in an article about how big your layout should be. The article starts on page 35 and the section on cost is on page 37. This cost was only for benchwork, track, scenery, and a control system. This means locomotives and rollingstock are not included. However, as previously stated, these costs are spread out over time.

[BRAKIE]

Well,I have maintain over the years that one doesn't need to take out a second mortgage on the house to build a layout if we stay within a budget.There are several ways one can cut cost starting with the insulation foam which isn't really needed and buying lumber at the best price by buying at sale prices.
As far as tools I suspect we already have the tools needed out in the garage or tool shed so,there will be no special tool costs.We may have to buy a box of screws.

Buying our models at the best discount prices will shave hundreds of dollars off the costs same applies for KD couplers,springs,etc..Scenery items can also be had at discount prices.Joint compound can be had for 6.99 for a 5 pound bucket and works as well as plaster.

Now,remember another cost cutting factor could be the elimination of space eating mountains on smaller layouts,turn tables isn't needed unless you are running steam locomotives. Use high dollar vehicles in the fore ground and the less detailed vehicles in the back ground.Same applies for figures,structures etc.I call this the Hollywood effect..You see your eyes is tricked into seeing details that isn't there in the background by seeing higher detailed structures and vehicles in the foreground which your eyes will automatically focus on.
So,you can see how that $150.00/ft will shrink away to more reasonable costs per foot by buying at discount and buying lumber on sale or at one of the discount chain lumber companies.

[jeffers_mz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Don't get caught up in the "I can build you a house for $135.00 a square foot" syndrome, of course he will build you a house for that ! Take a sheet of plywood=$40.00 a bunch of track= $300.00... 2 bags of plaster of paris $12.00 and a bunch of buildings and bridges= $250.00 whats that add up to??? OH I forgot ! 12 brass locomotives @ $2500.00 each and a bunch of brass cars for another $5,000: now your layout costs $150/foot. Assuming layouts by the square foot is not only wrong, it's dangerous and very inaccurate, just as it is in house building.

A power pack, wire and DPDT switches will add at least a hundred bucks to that total, and if you go with DCC you're looking at at least that to start, plus decoders andaccessories, more if you plan to control turnouts through DCC.

As it stands right now, your sheet of plywood is laying on the floor. For legs you need more wood, screws or bolts, etc. As long as you are willing to accept no scenery below the rail heigth, one piece of plywood will do the job, and you can use rolled up newspapers to make moderate hills, but any terrain higher or more complex than that will add to the total price in foam, glue and a caulk gun for the foam, wood for structural support, chicken wire to support the plaster, etc. That plaster needs to be painted too, unless you're planning to run The Polar Express exclusively.

You can nail your track directly onto the plywood sheet if you like, but it'll end up noisy and won't look prototypical at all. Options include plywood for roadbed and some sort of cushioning tiebed like cork or homasote. These items will add to the finished price.

Ballast for the track will include the price of ballast, glue and rubbing alcohol. Weathered track will cost even more for paint, chalk, india ink etc.

For fine adjustment you may need a package of rail spikes, plus your track nails, then there's uncouplers, coupler boxes, coupler springs, coupler gauges, coupler shims, and coupler screws. Some rolling stock will need drilled out to accept coupler box screws, even if you already have a drill there are tiny drill bits and perhaps a tap and die set to thread the holes.

By the time you stock up on hobby paints, weathering chalks, brushes, thinners, dullcote, etc, you'll see at least $100 bucks disappear for a minimal setup, add an airbrush, paint booth, compressor, and you're at more like $500 or more.

You can spend more for expensive rolling stock upfront, or you can go back through and replace the trucks with good one and replace plastic wheels with metal ones, either way you will end up with smooth rolling trains that spend more time on the track than off of it. Alternatives carry a price perhaps not measured in cold cash, but a price just the same.

I've spent many a month finishing construction jobs started by people who fell for the "HOW many dollars a foot? I can do it for WAY less" line of reasoning. It happens because of unrealistic planning. The big expenses are easy to see, and using them alone, you can "shave" a significant percentage off the price of the job. But without the details, the job isn't finished, and those who ignore the price of the details going in usually run into an unpleasant surprise down the road.

The people on this forum who's pictures represent the kind of finished product I want my layout to resemble mostly say they paid $100 to $150 a square foot. My reciepts verify similar expense, and I didn't include the woodshop already in place, free lumber, free foam and free fasteners, both nails and screws, and glue. I could probably have held expenses down to perhaps $75 a foot total, but the type of layout in this case specifies locomotives and rolling stock that isn't easy to get anymore. "Old time" anything is pretty hard to find. After extensive searching, I found sufficient quantities of it to set me up for the expected life of this layout, and rather than take a chance not being able to still get the stuff later on, bought it all at once. Most people will pick up a piece here and another there, over years, and that cost probably isn't reflected in their total cost estimates, at the very least a lot of items don't make the final accounting.

That's not to say you can't piece togather a railroad on a shoestring budget, you can and many do. But to think you're going to accurately estimate the costs going in without looking at the line item details is asking for an estimate that's flawed from the start. Get it wrong on your layout, it's a personal matter for you to work out. Get it wrong on a construction site and the lawyers get involved, usually followed by IRS types and consumer protection agencies. No fun to watch, even as a spectator who's making a small mint off the repair work and finishing the job at cost plus. Ignore the price of details at your own risk.

[tatans]

Don't get caught up in the "I can build you a house for $135.00 a square foot" syndrome, of course he will build you a house for that ! Take a sheet of plywood=$40.00 a bunch of track= $300.00... 2 bags of plaster of paris $12.00 and a bunch of buildings and bridges= $250.00 whats that add up to??? OH I forgot ! 12 brass locomotives @ $2500.00 each and a bunch of brass cars for another $5,000: now your layout costs $150/foot. Assuming layouts by the square foot is not only wrong, it's dangerous and very inaccurate, just as it is in house building.

[Anonymous]

It happens that I kept a running total on my previous layout (taken down in 2000 for a house move). Over an 11-year period I spent $5,940 EXCLUDING locomotives and rolling stock to complete a 128-square-foot layout to a decent scenery standard and a high detail standard. That works out to about $46 per square foot and about $540 / year although expenses were heaviest in the first three years. Its interesting to note that its quite like building a house – the basic structure is a smaller portion of the final cost than many would expect. The basics - lumber, track lighting, track, wiring, tools / materials / misc. -came to $2,165 or 36% of the total; fortunately the room was already finished other than inadequate lighting. Advanced DC throttles, switch machines and control panels came to $695 or 12% of the total. I built a number of structures, many of them craftsman and others kitbashed, and including a large number of extra details (I’m including the figures), and expenses there totaled $1,695 or 29% of the total. “Extras” – trees, professionally mounted backdrops, background building flats, street lamps, interior lighting, trackside details, vehicles – accounted for the remaining 23%. Over that period, I estimate that I also spent about $3,500 on rolling stock. This figure isn’t as bad as it seems since I model three different railroads on a “cycle” basis, i.e. only one on the layout at a given time. My largest total expense, however, has been on my stable of steam locomotives; embarrassment prevents me from revealing what I’ve spent on them. Thinking of what I "needed" for motive power and rolling stock (as opposed to "wanted"), I'd estimate that one can build and fully equip an excellent layout for no more than $75 / square foot.

As I work on my new, significantly larger layout, I’ve been able to recycle nearly everything from the first layout, and – mirabile dictu – am no longer purchasing rolling stock or motive power. So I’m finding that on either an annual or a total basis, the required “new” spending on the new layout is surprisingly modest (although I’m shocked by current lumber prices).

But I view it all as money well spent. The enjoyment has been, and still is, terrific, and as others have noted, the costs pale in comparison to many other male hobbies (not that I’m criticizing them).

[Anonymous]

I dont know how much spent in the hobby.

I do know that after 30 years it's in the thousands of dollars accumulated.

Same for computers. I once counted about 15,000 dollars in software over 20 years and perhaps half or more in machines to run them.

Good health by relieving stress and actually doing something enjoyable? Priceless! Especially when you consider room and board at the hospital approaching 1000 dollars a night.

[Bill H.]

Interesting thread.

IMO, MR has the advantage of being able to draw heavily on imagination to achieve it's goals. (Building flats, painted scenery, etc.) All of this is left to the choice of the modeler. One can start with as litttle as a piece of plywood and a prepackaged train set to begin. Where it goes from there is up to you.

Vintage cars can be a real PITA. I have a longstanding love/hate relationship with my '71 Corvette LT1 Conv. Think "rivet counters" are picky? Spend some time around the NCRS to see REAL picky.
example:

QUOTE: "That acceptance daub of paint on the inside chassis rail is a little too light in color and should be 3/8" further forward."

Gimme a break...

Someone wearing a 20K wristwatch questions YOUR choices?

...and so it goes.

[SpaceMouse]

There's no way my 5 x 8 is going to run $4000. My guess is closer to $2000. But I scrimp and save while all you guys pay full price.

[loathar]

My new layout is almost 100 sq.ft. and I plan on spending about $10,000 on it. So I guess around $100/sq. for me.
How much would train insurance cost for a 10 grand layout? I probably need to start thinking about that. (got some big trees next to my building that worry me in high wind)
Would home owners cover that?

[gvdobler]

$15,000 over 25 years is a relatively low cost hobby, especially when you consider the enjoyment factor derived during that 25 years.

Hobbies in general, boats, cars, skydiving, almost evrything I can think of costs as much or more in much shorter time frames than 25 years. I have a garage full of RC airplanes. I have over $7,000 in just one of them. Everytime I fly it (3-4 times a month) I risk turning it back into a kit. At least with trains we don't risk them everytime we run them (barring a dive of the benchwork.)

It cost $150 to take four people out to a nice steak house for one meal, and that's doesn't even include a decoder.

I know the younger members may not agree, but they haven't graduated into the higher cost hobbies yet. Just to get a private pilot license is about $7-8 grand, before you can carry your first passenger along.

I'd say trains are a bargain.

[BRAKIE]

I suppose my N Scale industrial switching layout cost around $1,200 including structures ,track,switches and scenery items.I suppose I have another $1,400 in engines and rolling stock.So,around 2600 totaled.

My HO equipment would be roughly around $7,500 just in engines and cars.

[Anonymous]

INSURANCE . I like this thread. But on one has mentioned INSURANCE. Most of us could not replace our memories to our trains but being sure we have enough insurance to at least start over should the worst happen is a good idea. And no I don't sell insurance its just that one day I started counting blue boxes and all and decided that was the time to buy some. Phil

[jeffers_mz]

I've kept all the reciepts since I started building a new layout three months ago, but haven't added up expenses since Christmas. As of Christmas Eve, I was a hair under $1000.00 for a 4 x 8 layout. Since then, I've easily spent another thousand, $500 at the show last week for locomotives, $250 last night for cars, $300 last Friday for a loco and cars, without hauling out the stack of reciepts and adding them upo right now, I'd say I'm at $2300 to $2500.

However, More than half the material in the benchwork was scrap I had laying around. I already had at least ten grand in tools in the shop, and didn't pay a penny for styrofoam, since I had that laying around as scrap too. Another $500 for what somebody else would have to pay for that brings the total to $3000.

I'm essentially done buying now. I have 9 steam locos, the most the layout will support at any one time is 5 trains. I have enough cars for at least that many trains in old time steam.

My kids run diesels, so we have at least 5 full trains there too, one passenger, the rest freight, all told, 10 diesel locomotives.

The plaster cloth and lightweight spackling compound for the terrain is bought, I have a full color paint kit in both spray and for use with brushes, weathering chalks, as near as I can tell, that $3000 will be the bulk of it.

I still need between 200 and 500 pine trees, averaging a buck apiece that'll add at most another $500. The buildings will all be scratchbuilt, but will use factory fixtures and bulbs/LEDs/resistors, no more than $100 in parts. I have all the vehicles except I need about $50 worth of mules or burros for a pack train, and I have not yet bought the water making material for the river on the layout. In any event, all the odds and ends left will not put the total over $4000, $3500 in actual cash outlay for me.

That makes a per square foot cost between $109 and $125.

For comparison, camping gear set me back $2000, the climbing gear that goes with it was $3500, the music studio so far has eaten about $100 but will consume a lot more when it moves to it's new home out back, $10k in tools as mentioned before, and my computer network was in the $10k range as well. Railroading then, fits in the middle of the spectrum of expense for hobbies, not the least expensive, not the most expensive, about average.

If anyone complains about the cost, I agree and reflect how long it's been since I was clipped into a 60m rope running a multi-pitch trad route on fine Colorado granite, and they clam up fast.

:-)

[umtrr-author]

I believe that given the general availablity of more "entry-level" items in HO than in any other scale, the chances of keeping costs down are better in HO.

I've been in N Scale since 1969 and I choose not to add it all up; why look for trouble?

[willy6]

I read an article a few years ago in which it stated an HO layout is about $150.00 a square foot, not including YOUR labor.

[BRVRR]

In the 4x10 BRVRR layout, by itself I have about $500 dollars in track, turnouts, structures, lumber, hardware and wire. Add another $300 for DCC controls. The BRVRR is far from finished and I'm thinking about some major changes/improvements. Add in 30-locos and 60-70 pieces of rolling stock, decoders, sound modules/decoders, speakers ad infinitum. In 5 years probably close to $4500.00. I average $100 a month or so on purchases for the railroad. Many of the purchases are structures and rolling stock I haven't built yet. Last month was my biggest spending month ever. $250 for locos, $250 for sound decoders, speakers etc. and another $200 for misc. rolling stock, structures and electronic parts. It all comes out of my 'mad money' so there is no real effect on the family. My kids are grown, the cars paid for and my wife and I don't travel much. I find MRRing more satisfying than golf, and cheaper than keeping up with the latest in computers. The most important thing is that it is FUN and my grandson likes it too.

[Anonymous]

Well I just decided to get back into model railroading a week or so before christmas. I placed my first online order on christmas eve. Since then I have spent $714. I have a 9x7 table built in my newly repaired shed. (55 sq feet with walk-in space) I have enough Woodland Scenics foam risers, inclines, and Atlas flex-track & switches (excuse me turnouts) to lay all the track. Plus all the plaster I need. I have a ton of scenery stuff but we'll see how far it goes.

Luckily I am using a lot of my old rolling stock and my MRC Tech 2 power pack is still kicking butt.

(so far $13 a sq foot...LONG way to go)
The train show is in town this weekend so my expenses may rise sharply. [8D]

[topgun3208]

very informative information, thanks so much

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by David C.G.BOWIE

I read with interest the $3.5million cost of the 3,500sqft Chicago layout and wonder how these costs are arrived at? At a $1,000 a square foot I was wondering what my wife would say about my plans to take up HO model railways?!!! I would be interested to learn what Forum readers layouts cost per square foot. . . .assuming they actually know or are bold enough to admit to their hobby costs. Wonder if the Chicago public exhibit has a breakdown of costs? Best wishes everyone. . .DB

The $1000 per square foot was only arrived at because the Museum of Science and Industry paid some one to do all the work for them Using the layout I am planning as an example. (a 16 X 32 HO Scale N shaped affair) I have a list of everything I want and have planned for on this layout. which includes Code 100 flex track. Kit built/kit bashed/scratc built buildings. standard scenery construction, Athearn/MDC/Accurail level cars. Mostly Athearn wtih a smattering of P2K and Walthers Trainline locos. I come out to about $75.00 per finished square foot. But then thats taking into account what I have already purchase, My particular trackplan. and what additional things I need to purchase to get from where I am now, to where I want to be.

[Anonymous]

Guy next door has a vintage car. I guarantee you he spent more simply to buy it than I will _ever_ spend on model railroading, and that's not even considering maintenance, customizing and all the other ongoing stuff he does... It's interesting how you could tell someone you have a $20,000 train layout and they'll likely look at you funny, but nobody thinks it's "weird" to have a $50,000 vintage vette in the garage. They might envy it, they might think it's money better spent elsewhere, but they won't question the fundamental rationality of it, the way they likely would with MRR.

The list goes on. Horrific amounts are spent on Golf, Cars, Sports and all other sorts of more "accepted" hobbies...

[ClinchValleySD40]

MR did a study of it a few years back and posted $100 sq ft as an average cost.

[Leon Silverman]

FundyNorthern:
Bear in mind that all of the activities you mentioned are weather dependent in most areas of the United States. This is not the case in model railroading unless you are into garden railroading in the north.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if all of these people running around with ATVs, snowmobiles, personal watercraft, and motorcycles do similar costing? Their hobbies require big chunks of change right up front for the machines, trailers, helmets, special clothing, boots, etc. Probably spread over time through a bank loan.

I imagine most average sized home layouts cost less than a new ATV, and their acquisition is usually over a longer period. And you don't have to be concerned with running into a tree!

Bob Boudreau

[IRONROOSTER]

Frankly, I don't know. As my family life/finances have ebbed and flowed my hobby spending and time have also ebbed and flowed. But actually it doesn't matter since I only spend what I can afford from the family discretionary income of which my wife gets to spend some as well. With the kids grown and on their own and both of us working we have more now. Of course the other problem is I have more than will fit on my current layout[:D]

MR did a beginner's layout a while back, 4x8 with track, trains, buildings, and scenery that came to about $500 or $15/sq ft. They were trying to keep the cost down, with more expensive locos, buildings, etc you could double that (or more).

My suggestion would be to allocate about $500 as startup and then set a monthly budget of at least $25. Of more if you can afford it, but don't spend too much up front while you're learning about the hobby.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm at an interesting point to comment...

I've recently moved and building entirely new layout. Not reusing much other than locos and rolling stock. Taking advantage of a clean slate to switch to code-83 and code-70 track, etc.

And, for some reason, I thought I'd like to track costs on it. So what I've done is buy every single thing for this layout on a credit card I don't otherwise use (it was and will shortly again just be an "emergency spare"), which I then pay off each month from my 'train fund' money... Figured since a lot of it would get bought over the 'net anyhow, most would flow through plastic regardless, so let's do it all that way.

So for a roughly 20x30 layout, I'm into precisely $2,468 as of today. That covers all the lumber I need, foam, all track, all turnouts, roadbed, wire, toggles, connectors, LEDs, etc. it also includes about half the tortoise machines I'm going to have to buy. (bought 45, need another 49) It includes NO scenery and NO rolling stock or motive power.

I've planned on the initial cost runnig $5,000 to get to a fully-operational-but-unscenicked state, and I'm probably on track for that, or maybe a little less. I probably have 90% of my materials (by quantity), purchased already, but the few remaining things are mostly "big" ones. i still have to decide what I'm doing with my DCC setup (discussed elsewhere), which will be $3-500, and I'm still looking at needing those tortoises (roughly $600 more just there).

As noted above, there's no "labor" cost in any of this... Though I probably should admit that the "beer" budget is likely about $40 by now and likely to double before the end of intiial construction.

My roster probably represents another $3-5,000 spent over time, plus things I've inherited from friends, been given as gifts, etc. (probably half the roster wasn't "paid for" by me one way or the other). I will be wanting more rolling stock to support the new, much larger layout effectively. Probably near-done on motive power, since I have a fetish for locos anyway, so already had more than I could ever reasonably run on the old setup.

Then there's scenery, buildings, etc. I have some structures I can repurpose, and so forth... That will certainly be a "spread over time" cost, and I have no idea what it will run... But wouldn't be at all surprised if that's another $3-5,000 over the course of a couple years.

If I decide to go heavily into automated signaling, other stationary decoder-driven things, etc. that could add another major cost component. That's currently on my "yeah, one day" list and well in the future.

FWIW of course...

[sunsetbeachry]

...OK Here goes....I started 25 years ago small HO. layout price for land 6500 dollars building 3500.00 US {all moneies in US] Building size 20 by 20 with 8 by 10 porch for enjoying sun when it shows up. Listening to ocean while working on layout PRICLESS. Purchase of rolling stock, engines, track, lumber,etc,etc,etc.................LABOR....nothing...... Just a lot of love and patience All told over the years about 50 grand that is what Kathy tells me and I'm still not finished tear it out and rebuild again. Now remember that I've included coffee ,cigs and biting off fingernails ;trips to the dr because I nailed my fingers to the wood.
.........Just remember spent what YOU can afford ENJOY what you do, and allways ask questions.........WE will be here to help...Chuck and Kathy

[CrossTrack Trains]

without the engine& cars included, I only have about $200 into a 4x8 Layout including the framing of the table, and about $200 worth of gift from Christmas and Birthdays.
So $400 total

[Anonymous]

I bought my first HO boxcar in 1967. It is still servicable on the layout. I paid about $3.00 for it. How much did it cost me? About $0.08 per year. I paid $65.00, including shipping, for a loco three years ago. So far it has cost me $21.66 per year and with each year it remains in service the cost per year goes down. How much have I spent over the last 37 years? Who knows, but not as much as you might think.