Costs of HO layouts

[Anonymous]

I read with interest the $3.5million cost of the 3,500sqft Chicago layout and wonder how these costs are arrived at? At a $1,000 a square foot I was wondering what my wife would say about my plans to take up HO model railways?!!! I would be interested to learn what Forum readers layouts cost per square foot. . . .assuming they actually know or are bold enough to admit to their hobby costs. Wonder if the Chicago public exhibit has a breakdown of costs? Best wishes everyone. . .DB

[james saunders]

hmm i only got a 4 X 8 so not much i'd say $100 but the smaller the layout the more detailed it will be.

welcome to the forum

[cwclark]

I have about $15,000 invested in my 25 x 23 layout...you must also understand that this is over a period of 25 years...if you try to purchase everything at one time, yes, it can get really expensive, but if you go little by little the cost can be spread out over time. ..the most expensive part for me is the benchwork, the power supply, and having the latest and greatest locomotives can get quite pricey...look at it this way...say you purchase a kit for $30.00 and it takes you a month to build it , weather it, and landscape it..well..that's just $30.00 a month you spent on the hobby...the most i've ever spent on it at one time was actually on this month's credit card bill, two new Atlas MP15DC switcher engines, some styrene and some parts from the LHS, and some electronic equipment total = $365.00 ... that's the worst case scenerio...most of the time i keep it at $100.00 to $150.00 per month....chuck

[dragonriversteel]

A model railroad could be like buying a car. For example......a yugo or a BMW,it depends on what you, as a person want to spend. Some folks are well off and worked hard to get there and others are just trying to meet the bills every month. But we all have model railroading as are collected addiction. Thus ,alot of railroads are diffirent,meaning those folks who dabble with train sets and those who build huge empires.

I don't want to know ,how much I've spent over the years or ever let my wife find out the total amount. But I'd have to say .....around 7000 clams as a figure.

Patrick

[simon1966]

DB, one thing to consider is that the Chicago layout was built by a cadre of commercial builders, so there are a lot of billed man hours in that number. The electronics and control system were I beleive custom made as well. When we build our own layouts there is no accounting for the man hours for one thing. Secondly, as has been pointed out above, the costs of a layout are spread over a very long time. I don't know what my layout has cost, but I am sure it would be a shock if I added up all the costs over the last 4 years. However, if I were a golfer, what would I have spent in the same time period, and what would I have to show for it at the end? The final thought is that my biggest expense by far has been in rolling stock and locomotives. Like many, I can not possibly place all my trains on the layout at once. I don't think there is enough track just to set them all down! Control this aspect and make judicious decisions about purchases and costs can be controlled. Have a great time!

[Leon Silverman]

Another issue that has to be considered is that the Chicago Layout was built by paid labor, which has to be a significant portiopn of the cost. The $15,000 invested by cwclark is for materials only, no labor. Furthermore, consider what might have spent by the modeler if he didn't have the hobby - food (that you eat when you sit in front of the TV or go to a movie or show), diets (to get rid of the weight put on by that food), other forms of recreation.
People complain about how expensive this hobby is but discount how much money they would spend if they engaged in alternate activities. This cost advoidance factor makes the hobby very inexpensive unless you are into buying $1600.00 Brass engines every month.

[CNJ831]

Another question that has gone around and around here many times. Clearly, a great deal depends on how well done and detailed you want your layout to be. The figure that is always kicking around is $100 per square foot and I think that it's pretty accurate if you wi***o have a really good-looking, yet only moderately detailed, layout.

Of course, a sheet of plywood with a loop of track won't run anywhere near that and something on the detail level of George Sellios' F&SM will be several times such a figure. A nice example of what the pros will charge you for building a layout is available on-line from Dunham Studios, creators of the Christmastime layout at City Bank in NYC. Their "typical upscale layout with simple backdrop" (about what an experienced modeler might be expected to build himself) ranks at $300 a square foot. Their commercial layouts go for $450 per square foot.

So, in the way of a ballpark figure to start with, anticipate laying out at least $5,000 to $10,000 for anything over 4x8 and looking reasonably good. In previous discussions on this subject, quite a number of posters indicated expending $15,000 to $25,000 , while the larger layouts that you typically see in the pages of MR are in the $50K and up region.

CNJ831

[waltersrails]

mines about 100 for 7by8 about 50 more bucks will finish it

[nbrodar]

Over the 20 years I've been in the hobby I've spend about $8,000, to get to my current 10x15 layout. About half is rolling stock, and half layout costs. Also, I have not yet converted to DCC, or gotten to the point where I need hundreds of HO people or vehicles yet.

Nick

[ereimer]

like they say in the ads ...

new freight car ... $20
new engine ... $300
layout to run them on ... $10,000
enjoyment received from countless hours building and running it ... PRICELESS !!!

[Anonymous]

I am just really getting started and have probly around 400.00 invested in Lumber, Rolling stock, Buildings and sceanery but like what was stated before you can but a Kia or a Corvette your budget will have to decide which way to go. My advise buy what you like and can afford that will allow you the most enjoyment for your dollar. For me a 200.00 engine will provide me as much enjoyment as a 2000.00 engine yet I save 1800.00 dollars.

[selector]

Skill plays a part, as well. If the builder is not skilled, there is a potential for waste and redoing things that will add to the cost. Also coupled with skill is experience; a novice is likely to make purchasing and estimating errors that will add unnecessary costs.

[Anonymous]

I bought my first HO boxcar in 1967. It is still servicable on the layout. I paid about $3.00 for it. How much did it cost me? About $0.08 per year. I paid $65.00, including shipping, for a loco three years ago. So far it has cost me $21.66 per year and with each year it remains in service the cost per year goes down. How much have I spent over the last 37 years? Who knows, but not as much as you might think.

[CrossTrack Trains]

without the engine& cars included, I only have about $200 into a 4x8 Layout including the framing of the table, and about $200 worth of gift from Christmas and Birthdays.
So $400 total

[sunsetbeachry]

...OK Here goes....I started 25 years ago small HO. layout price for land 6500 dollars building 3500.00 US {all moneies in US] Building size 20 by 20 with 8 by 10 porch for enjoying sun when it shows up. Listening to ocean while working on layout PRICLESS. Purchase of rolling stock, engines, track, lumber,etc,etc,etc.................LABOR....nothing...... Just a lot of love and patience All told over the years about 50 grand that is what Kathy tells me and I'm still not finished tear it out and rebuild again. Now remember that I've included coffee ,cigs and biting off fingernails ;trips to the dr because I nailed my fingers to the wood.
.........Just remember spent what YOU can afford ENJOY what you do, and allways ask questions.........WE will be here to help...Chuck and Kathy

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm at an interesting point to comment...

I've recently moved and building entirely new layout. Not reusing much other than locos and rolling stock. Taking advantage of a clean slate to switch to code-83 and code-70 track, etc.

And, for some reason, I thought I'd like to track costs on it. So what I've done is buy every single thing for this layout on a credit card I don't otherwise use (it was and will shortly again just be an "emergency spare"), which I then pay off each month from my 'train fund' money... Figured since a lot of it would get bought over the 'net anyhow, most would flow through plastic regardless, so let's do it all that way.

So for a roughly 20x30 layout, I'm into precisely $2,468 as of today. That covers all the lumber I need, foam, all track, all turnouts, roadbed, wire, toggles, connectors, LEDs, etc. it also includes about half the tortoise machines I'm going to have to buy. (bought 45, need another 49) It includes NO scenery and NO rolling stock or motive power.

I've planned on the initial cost runnig $5,000 to get to a fully-operational-but-unscenicked state, and I'm probably on track for that, or maybe a little less. I probably have 90% of my materials (by quantity), purchased already, but the few remaining things are mostly "big" ones. i still have to decide what I'm doing with my DCC setup (discussed elsewhere), which will be $3-500, and I'm still looking at needing those tortoises (roughly $600 more just there).

As noted above, there's no "labor" cost in any of this... Though I probably should admit that the "beer" budget is likely about $40 by now and likely to double before the end of intiial construction.

My roster probably represents another $3-5,000 spent over time, plus things I've inherited from friends, been given as gifts, etc. (probably half the roster wasn't "paid for" by me one way or the other). I will be wanting more rolling stock to support the new, much larger layout effectively. Probably near-done on motive power, since I have a fetish for locos anyway, so already had more than I could ever reasonably run on the old setup.

Then there's scenery, buildings, etc. I have some structures I can repurpose, and so forth... That will certainly be a "spread over time" cost, and I have no idea what it will run... But wouldn't be at all surprised if that's another $3-5,000 over the course of a couple years.

If I decide to go heavily into automated signaling, other stationary decoder-driven things, etc. that could add another major cost component. That's currently on my "yeah, one day" list and well in the future.

FWIW of course...

[IRONROOSTER]

Frankly, I don't know. As my family life/finances have ebbed and flowed my hobby spending and time have also ebbed and flowed. But actually it doesn't matter since I only spend what I can afford from the family discretionary income of which my wife gets to spend some as well. With the kids grown and on their own and both of us working we have more now. Of course the other problem is I have more than will fit on my current layout[:D]

MR did a beginner's layout a while back, 4x8 with track, trains, buildings, and scenery that came to about $500 or $15/sq ft. They were trying to keep the cost down, with more expensive locos, buildings, etc you could double that (or more).

My suggestion would be to allocate about $500 as startup and then set a monthly budget of at least $25. Of more if you can afford it, but don't spend too much up front while you're learning about the hobby.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

I wonder if all of these people running around with ATVs, snowmobiles, personal watercraft, and motorcycles do similar costing? Their hobbies require big chunks of change right up front for the machines, trailers, helmets, special clothing, boots, etc. Probably spread over time through a bank loan.

I imagine most average sized home layouts cost less than a new ATV, and their acquisition is usually over a longer period. And you don't have to be concerned with running into a tree!

Bob Boudreau

[Leon Silverman]

FundyNorthern:
Bear in mind that all of the activities you mentioned are weather dependent in most areas of the United States. This is not the case in model railroading unless you are into garden railroading in the north.

[ClinchValleySD40]

MR did a study of it a few years back and posted $100 sq ft as an average cost.

[Anonymous]

Guy next door has a vintage car. I guarantee you he spent more simply to buy it than I will _ever_ spend on model railroading, and that's not even considering maintenance, customizing and all the other ongoing stuff he does... It's interesting how you could tell someone you have a $20,000 train layout and they'll likely look at you funny, but nobody thinks it's "weird" to have a $50,000 vintage vette in the garage. They might envy it, they might think it's money better spent elsewhere, but they won't question the fundamental rationality of it, the way they likely would with MRR.

The list goes on. Horrific amounts are spent on Golf, Cars, Sports and all other sorts of more "accepted" hobbies...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by David C.G.BOWIE

I read with interest the $3.5million cost of the 3,500sqft Chicago layout and wonder how these costs are arrived at? At a $1,000 a square foot I was wondering what my wife would say about my plans to take up HO model railways?!!! I would be interested to learn what Forum readers layouts cost per square foot. . . .assuming they actually know or are bold enough to admit to their hobby costs. Wonder if the Chicago public exhibit has a breakdown of costs? Best wishes everyone. . .DB

The $1000 per square foot was only arrived at because the Museum of Science and Industry paid some one to do all the work for them Using the layout I am planning as an example. (a 16 X 32 HO Scale N shaped affair) I have a list of everything I want and have planned for on this layout. which includes Code 100 flex track. Kit built/kit bashed/scratc built buildings. standard scenery construction, Athearn/MDC/Accurail level cars. Mostly Athearn wtih a smattering of P2K and Walthers Trainline locos. I come out to about $75.00 per finished square foot. But then thats taking into account what I have already purchase, My particular trackplan. and what additional things I need to purchase to get from where I am now, to where I want to be.

[topgun3208]

very informative information, thanks so much

[Anonymous]

Well I just decided to get back into model railroading a week or so before christmas. I placed my first online order on christmas eve. Since then I have spent $714. I have a 9x7 table built in my newly repaired shed. (55 sq feet with walk-in space) I have enough Woodland Scenics foam risers, inclines, and Atlas flex-track & switches (excuse me turnouts) to lay all the track. Plus all the plaster I need. I have a ton of scenery stuff but we'll see how far it goes.

Luckily I am using a lot of my old rolling stock and my MRC Tech 2 power pack is still kicking butt.

(so far $13 a sq foot...LONG way to go)
The train show is in town this weekend so my expenses may rise sharply. [8D]

[BRVRR]

In the 4x10 BRVRR layout, by itself I have about $500 dollars in track, turnouts, structures, lumber, hardware and wire. Add another $300 for DCC controls. The BRVRR is far from finished and I'm thinking about some major changes/improvements. Add in 30-locos and 60-70 pieces of rolling stock, decoders, sound modules/decoders, speakers ad infinitum. In 5 years probably close to $4500.00. I average $100 a month or so on purchases for the railroad. Many of the purchases are structures and rolling stock I haven't built yet. Last month was my biggest spending month ever. $250 for locos, $250 for sound decoders, speakers etc. and another $200 for misc. rolling stock, structures and electronic parts. It all comes out of my 'mad money' so there is no real effect on the family. My kids are grown, the cars paid for and my wife and I don't travel much. I find MRRing more satisfying than golf, and cheaper than keeping up with the latest in computers. The most important thing is that it is FUN and my grandson likes it too.

[willy6]

I read an article a few years ago in which it stated an HO layout is about $150.00 a square foot, not including YOUR labor.

[umtrr-author]

I believe that given the general availablity of more "entry-level" items in HO than in any other scale, the chances of keeping costs down are better in HO.

I've been in N Scale since 1969 and I choose not to add it all up; why look for trouble?

[jeffers_mz]

I've kept all the reciepts since I started building a new layout three months ago, but haven't added up expenses since Christmas. As of Christmas Eve, I was a hair under $1000.00 for a 4 x 8 layout. Since then, I've easily spent another thousand, $500 at the show last week for locomotives, $250 last night for cars, $300 last Friday for a loco and cars, without hauling out the stack of reciepts and adding them upo right now, I'd say I'm at $2300 to $2500.

However, More than half the material in the benchwork was scrap I had laying around. I already had at least ten grand in tools in the shop, and didn't pay a penny for styrofoam, since I had that laying around as scrap too. Another $500 for what somebody else would have to pay for that brings the total to $3000.

I'm essentially done buying now. I have 9 steam locos, the most the layout will support at any one time is 5 trains. I have enough cars for at least that many trains in old time steam.

My kids run diesels, so we have at least 5 full trains there too, one passenger, the rest freight, all told, 10 diesel locomotives.

The plaster cloth and lightweight spackling compound for the terrain is bought, I have a full color paint kit in both spray and for use with brushes, weathering chalks, as near as I can tell, that $3000 will be the bulk of it.

I still need between 200 and 500 pine trees, averaging a buck apiece that'll add at most another $500. The buildings will all be scratchbuilt, but will use factory fixtures and bulbs/LEDs/resistors, no more than $100 in parts. I have all the vehicles except I need about $50 worth of mules or burros for a pack train, and I have not yet bought the water making material for the river on the layout. In any event, all the odds and ends left will not put the total over $4000, $3500 in actual cash outlay for me.

That makes a per square foot cost between $109 and $125.

For comparison, camping gear set me back $2000, the climbing gear that goes with it was $3500, the music studio so far has eaten about $100 but will consume a lot more when it moves to it's new home out back, $10k in tools as mentioned before, and my computer network was in the $10k range as well. Railroading then, fits in the middle of the spectrum of expense for hobbies, not the least expensive, not the most expensive, about average.

If anyone complains about the cost, I agree and reflect how long it's been since I was clipped into a 60m rope running a multi-pitch trad route on fine Colorado granite, and they clam up fast.

:-)

[Anonymous]

INSURANCE . I like this thread. But on one has mentioned INSURANCE. Most of us could not replace our memories to our trains but being sure we have enough insurance to at least start over should the worst happen is a good idea. And no I don't sell insurance its just that one day I started counting blue boxes and all and decided that was the time to buy some. Phil

[BRAKIE]

I suppose my N Scale industrial switching layout cost around $1,200 including structures ,track,switches and scenery items.I suppose I have another $1,400 in engines and rolling stock.So,around 2600 totaled.

My HO equipment would be roughly around $7,500 just in engines and cars.