What does everyone have against lifelike?

[BRAKIE]

Sadly Life Like P2K locomotives has issues from being slow runners to the crack gear problem to detail flaws..Now I am reading that LL QC has been hit and miss.Who can easily forget that ton of grease that LL use in the gear boxes?
Its sad to think I had to replace gears in 29 P2K Geeps and these older Geeps are still out there being bought by the unsuspecting modeler.Will Walthers replace these faulty gears as they show up for free? I suspect Walthers will follow their policy of replacing broken or missing parts for free.

Now the days of 29.99 and $39,99 P2K locomotives will draw to a close due to the recent price hikes of the P2K engines.

On the bright side I still fully believe that the Walthers P2K Geeps are the best detailed on the market.[:D]

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

QUOTE: Dingoix, if you spent a bit more time working on your MR, and quit hanging in the forum for hours on end creating polls and trying to answer every thread, you might get done with you setup.

i'd love to but there's nothing to do on my layout until i get about $200 worth of track

So it seems the "expert" has nothing running. Interesting, very interesting. If you need track, email me and I'll send you about $200 worth of Atlas track, assuming you don't think it's "junk".

[ICRR1964]

dingoix,
Bottom line here son, is everytime someone puts a post up about needing a part, or advice, or simple questions about an older or MR loco or car, you seem to throw the word "junk" at it. You need to go back and look at allot of your post that focus on Tyco, Bachmann, Model Power, and some of the older MR manufactures. And lets not forget P2K that took a simple beating from a bunch of members to point out to you about P2k not being your labeled "junk" as you called it.

I feel sorry for people that ask a question or are new to the hobby, and you turn around and you throw the word "junk" at them. Some how I cannot get you to understand this, so keep up the good work and scare as many people away from MR as you can.

[NevinW]

There is no question that both Lifelike and Bachmann have come a long ways with their spectrum and P2K lines. While I hesitate to call something junk because that might be all someone can afford. Much of their trainset stuff has been of such poor quality that I am afraid that we have lost many people from this hobby simply because they bought it, brought it home, it didn't work right, they threw it out and now they fly model airplanes or build model ships or collect stamps. Athearn engines are vastly superior for the money. - Nevin

[MAbruce]

While you guys are talking about your experiences in HO scale, LL has been a real benefit to us in N-scale. For the past few years they have stepped up and produced some solid N-scale locos at reasonable prices. In fact most of my loco roster is LL.

However there now seems to be widespread concern over the purchase of LL by Walthers. It’s been a longstanding perception that Walthers is not really dedicated to N-scale, and now that they have LL, all we have seen is the prices go up on the latest releases that LL announced before being purchased. In fact, and please correct me if I’m wrong, we have not seen any new N-scale announcements from LL since Walthers purchased them.

So we wait and hope that Walthers will not erase the niche that LL held in N-scale.

[james saunders]

i say if a trainset is say $50? why not get a P2K S1 from trainworld for $29.99 and a couple of freight cars and a loop of track and your rolling... better value than that life like junk.

but hey my first trains where hand me downs, a bachmann J class, Rivarossi hudson, and a few british models, but i also bought a LL train set, that was a waste of time, i threw it out after a couple of weeks, it was absolute junk!. now i own P2K, Atlas,spectrum and never looked back... my freight cars are, athearn, atlas, bachmann,P2K... now i want to get some Athearn RTR GP35s and some BLI and im set.

OZJIM

[jondrd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by hdtvnut

[:D]

Lifelike has made some cheap models in the past. But this is not
what I base my opinion on at all. They have made some of the the
best HO steam engine models ever to hit the market. The 2-8-8-2,
0-6-0 and 0-8-0 Heritage engines I have (2 each) in various road
names are the quietest and smoothest slow-running, compared to my
BLI's and Bachmanns. They have very nice detailing and look as good
or better than anything out there, including brass (my LL Berkshire
is, on the other hand, only an average runner).

My BLI and Bachmann steam (15 total) mostly look good, but I sure
would like to be able to put certain of their shells on some Lifelike
mechanisms!

Bachmann Spectrum has most of its line with wired tenders. P2K's 0-8-0 has it on latest sound issue model(expensive). For alexandert3 this could be an important consideration. Do agree with other forum members who cite little pulling power for P2K steam although only steamer I have is P2K 0-8-0. No complaint with pulling power of P2K diesels; have only covered wagon models.

I've got P2K, Spectrum, Genesis, IHC and BLI. I would never ever consider putting BLI shells on P2K mechanisms(if possible). I've apparently been very lucky with these purchases because problems referenced on the forum for each line I have not (so far) experienced. BLI's are my best runners-for the price they should be.

It's possible as one forum member stated on another thread that manufacturers all have (had?) sporadic quality issues. Anyone getting started would be well advised to get most locomotive he can afford; trainset stuff is not the way to start out. [tdn] Could be more of a turn off than a turn on to the hobby. JMHO

Jon

[aloco]

As brand names, the words 'Proto 2000', ' P2K', 'Proto 1000', or 'Proto' are not in my vocabulary. This is all LIFE-LIKE stuff, pure and simple. I have lots of Life-Like locos, and they all run good.

As for the 'train set' or 'toy train' stuff that Life-Like makes, I have a name for that ... DEATH-LIKE!

[twhite]

I have two Proto 2000 steamers and they don't pull for poop--especially since they cost me quite a bit initially. Other than that, I've not done any dealing with Lifelike. Not likely to in the future, either.
Tom [xx(]

[hdtvnut]

On the subject of weight: perhaps the Lionel Challenger isn't overweight, but the weight
doesn't seem to help it any. Some careful drawbar tests I did showed that my Challenger
could exert 2.4 oz force, while my LL Clinchfield matched it with 2.5 oz. I had heard
reports about how little such a heavy loco seemed able to pull, but getting one and testing
it proved they were right. My first Challenger also weaved from side to side, and it was
exchanged for one a little better. I like it anyway.

Hal

[Budliner]

walthers

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Dingoix, if you spent a bit more time working on your MR, and quit hanging in the forum for hours on end creating polls and trying to answer every thread, you might get done with you setup.

i'd love to but there's nothing to do on my layout until i get about $200 worth of track

[RedGrey62]

I will add this. The "cheap" stuff did help me be a better modeler. As already stated a few times, I had no problem cutting a few up to try some new techniques. One of the best and worst attempts at weathering were on the same care. One side came out great, the other side, well, you get the picture.

I think my entry level Tyco, AHM, LL, and Bachman stuff taught me alot about how to find and cure problems. But they really let me have fun too. In some ways I miss the, innocence?, of those train sets.

Rick

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: You were bragging it up about a week ago about how a low end LL you had would out pull your Atlas 12 wheel U-boat, now its junk? Come one, show this guy some simple respect and be abit more open minded to his feelings and knowledge

first of all i did call my L-L junk after i mentioned it'd outpull the U-boat, but , yes L-L is excellent way to start the hobby (it's how i started) but it won't be long before it becomes "low-end" for most people- i was trying to say "it's great to get you rolling, but don't buy them forever" once you've had something higher-end you'll get rid of the L-L as fast as you can. Don't take my earlier post the wrong way, but i just wanted out new guy to know this stuff isn't exactly high-end.

[tangerine-jack]

Hmm, I just wonder what a few $$ means to a guy in his 30's or 40's as compared to a young man about 13 with no job and maybe $20 to his name from cutting grass. It's all about perspective. I went to G scale because I can now afford to do so. $300 for a loco and $80 for a box car does not hurt me much, but when I was 13 or so I had Tyco and Life-like because it was all I could afford or could get on the $5 a week allowance I got. Try to keep the answers in perspective of the person asking.

Telling Alexander to spend more money to buy better stuff is not the best answer I can think of. Encouraging him to be creative with what he has is a better route to travel. Great model railroads are built from the imagination, not purchased out of a box.

Yes, there are many great locos out there, and we all know quality cost money, but why aren't we all driving a BMW or Viper? Can't afford one and have to drive your "junk" Mustang instead? Maybe you should get rid of that "junk" F150 and buy a "real" truck like an H2 Hummer. Speaking of that, get rid of that "junk" house you live in and buy a beach condo, after all it's built of better materials. Same thing is happening with this hobby. Seems like everybody has "junk" except for the ones who don't.

Sure, in a few months, maybe a year, he will have saved up enough money to buy a better loco, but what about in the mean time? Will he always be dissapointed every time he runs the only "junk" loco he owns? How is that positive for the hobby? Maybe in a few months of running "junk" he'll decide this hobby is too expensive and move on.

OK, I'm off my soapbox now.................................

[tstage]

Alexander,

The more expensive LifeLike locomotives - i.e. Proto 1000 and 2000 lines - are better and can be had at or near the price of the cheaper Trainset line. You just have to know where to shop. I bought my Proto 2000 S1switcher (regularly $110) from Trainworld.com for $29.99. It flat out crawls. It also depends what era of locomotive you are looking for.

Tom

[ICRR1964]

Yep, lets not forget the other entry level trains. Thay are good for opening doors to other MR worlds.

[simon1966]

Many moons ago there was a really meaty conversation about the apparent lack of new blood coming into the hobby. It seemed that almost all the Newbies were like me, 40 somethings that had trains as a kid, and now had some time and money to spend on the hobby. One of the themes of that thread was that "cheap" trainset equipment from LifeLike and Bachmann was potentially damaging to the hobby as folks would soon tire of un-reliable equipment. I am not sure that I subscribe to that theory, but I think that there may be some validity. From my own experience, I quickly discovered that I did not want to run LifeLike basic equipment. My one diesel has no flywheel, minimal wheel pickup, is very noisy and runs very poorly. I soon found that for very little more money, I could get Proto 2K units at train shows and on e-bay. There is no comparison in my mind. Now the LifeLike freight cars have been just fine. Mine all have metal wheels now, Kadee's and have be weighted, weathered and in the case of gondolas, had loads installed. I thoroghly enjoyed getting them to that state and they are running happily on the layout with much higher end equipment. I think to be fair, that most of us middle aged modellers would prefer to spend the extra buck on a better level of model, but that does not mean that they can not be enjoyed, and be a platform to move onto more advanced levels of the hobby. The great news is that if you are on a tight budget, these LifeLike and Bachmann cars can be picked up for very little money 2nd hand at trains shows. Think of them as a low cost blank canvas that you can flex your modelling muscle on, and you can create some fine rolling stock.

[Soo Line fan]

Life-Like gets a lot of praise on this site, it is just in the form of P1K and P2K.
I have 2 P2K SD60Ms, 2 P2K SD60s and 2 P2K GP30s. I really like all of them. Like most people, I had a Life-Like loco. It was a F40 with the single truck motor. The shell is now on an Atlas GP 40. The buildings are real nice. Rolling stock is the same as Bachmann and Tyco. You have to plug the truck hole and mount Athearn trucks and body mount KDs.

We slam all the entry-level stuff pretty equally. Bachmann gets it pretty good, as does Tyco. We are not just picking on your stuff.

Most entry-level stuff is designed to get you into the hobby, not keep you in it. As your skills and finances improve, you will move on to better quality stuff, as we all have. We all started out where you are at one time or another. I started with a Tyco set.

Have fun with your trains and keep the questions coming.

Jim

[Anonymous]

The Lionel Challenger is NOT overweight.

In fact if the Life Like proto steam weighted as MUCH as that so called overweight Lionel and ran just as well THEN I will consider myself in model railroad heaven.

I had a Life Like F unit in a train set in the late 70's it ran around the oval at top speed for about 20 years until the motor ground away too much of the innards to function. By that time I had undersstood what was quality and what was JUNK.

Tyco is still JUNK. But.... I learned to treat them as materials for practicing airbrushing and kitbashing only what I am just now beginning to explore.

Life Like does a decent job. But it's BLI for me in steam.

[chutton01]

So, can we at least agree that Life-like offers some pretty neat detail parts like trash cans, benches, lamp poles, etc. (which usually are more detailed and better molded than Model Power or IHC equivalents), although they do look better with repainting and/or dullcoating/weathering.

Some of their buildings are good too (well, building, being the Police Station, Fire Station, and Bank - eh..., the 7/11 Ace Mart is pretty nice too, although I reserve judgement on the country store/church).

Besides, their slogan still rings in my head (along with the old school MR 'Model Railroading Is Fun') - 'So Real, It's Life-Like'

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: What does everyone have against lifelike?

TWO thing's:

1. Price increase of Proto line.
2. Quality level of 'LL' (basic toy) train's.

Their Proto 2000 rates high for 'Bang for the Buck', and distribution is now more Retail oriented - hence the uncertain pricing.
The Proto 1000 is essentially a no-frills BB Athearn with directional lighting and better paint.
Life Like's basic line is toy like - look's like it - and run's like it.
LL's 'Heritage' steam has been a 'Superior' product, their best, and equal to to the best.

GRUMBLE DPT: Some of the earlier PROTO's had axle gear's crack due to overly tight axle tolerances. LL replaced them N/C, and replacement is a 'drop in' repair for the owner.

If that is too formidable, there is Athearn RTR @ higher prices - which has had their own new-product 'teething' problems. IF ONE expect's expect's 100% perfection, then one must pay for the privelege and then it's no longer a hobby.

[ICRR1964]

Thank you Tangerine-Jack! I want to help out the younger people as much as I can. I have some parent's sons who come down to my shop once a week if they see my lite on come on in. Both boys don't have any thing at all for MR, so I gave them each an older good running loco and let them do what they want with them, paint, details, or whatever they want to do to them. They run them on my layout most of the time and have fun. But when it comes time to fix them, its there job to do repairs if need, that way they learn. I have to supply the parts though.

dingois & icrr,
We all know you guys are young, and I am not just bashing you guys for the heck of it. You guys seem to forget what it was like starting out. Like TJ said, your comments you guys make about some poor guys engine being junk to him is a sure way to chase him away from the hobby. So your word "junk you keep saying to people on what they own is not what they want to here. I've said something to you befor dingoix before about your disrepect towards others about what they own or what question they have, and you throw the word junk into it then. Some people have piles of money to buy anything they want, others don't. You seem to know everything you think about everything you read or have heard. You were bragging it up about a week ago about how a low end LL you had would out pull your Atlas 12 wheel U-boat, now its junk? Come one, show this guy some simple respect and be abit more open minded to his feelings and knowledge. Since you know everything, I will just keep trying to learn in this hobby like many others, and offer help and ask for it. I will leave the word "junk" out of it. Dingoix, if you spent a bit more time working on your MR, and quit hanging in the forum for hours on end creating polls and trying to answer every thread, you might get done with you setup.

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

I will leave the word "junk" out of it for you alexander13, we all have to start some where. We all crossed the road or entry level starter sets and moved up to better running loco's and details. What you own is a start for you, and thats great. But you will move up to better built and running loco's soon. I know your young and want it all, but if I were you I would hit some train shows and try and find a good used Athearn Blue Box engine, there are tons of them out there. Check with your Local Hobby shop to, they may have what you want to at a $20 to $30 price.

Let me look around out in my parts stuff, I have boxes and boxes of parts older and newer loco's, I might be able to put an Athearn together for you and mail it to you for the cost of shipping, which should be around $5, I'll email you after I get done with this post, and we will talk about it. I have way to many engine parts and need to give some a good home, and you seem to need a good start, so I will help you out if I can.

ICRR1964

Now THIS is what the forum is all about, not useless posts about nothing. Once in a while off topic is OK, but we are supposed to be HELPING each other.

I've said it before (buried no doubt in inanity) that too often the word “junk” is thrown out there without taking a really close look at what the QUESTION was. Yes, Life Like has its toy like aspects, but for this young man it’s all he’s got. I’d be put off this hobby very quickly if all I owned was “junk” in everybody’s eyes and I wasn’t able to afford better.

Not everybody wants or can afford the cutting edge of technology; some of us have to start at the beginning. Let’s not forget that.
[bow][bow][bow][bow] I bow to you ICRR1964!

[Anonymous]

Do you think that Walthers purchase of LL will raise the level? Just wondering as I have an order for the RS27 that's now due in March.

[Anonymous]

Life Like has the best starter sets on the market right now.

Let me explain:

Recently they have started to phase the old crappy sets out and replaced them with sets with Proto 1000 engines and Proto 2000 cars! And higher quality power-loc track.

I dont know if this is a Walthers decision or if it was started before the buyout, but my hats off to LL.


I have never had any problems with the P2K deisels I own, Not even a cracked axle yet. I have nothing but nice things to say about Life Like.

[ICRR1964]

I will leave the word "junk" out of it for you alexander13, we all have to start some where. We all crossed the road or entry level starter sets and moved up to better running loco's and details. What you own is a start for you, and thats great. But you will move up to better built and running loco's soon. I know your young and want it all, but if I were you I would hit some train shows and try and find a good used Athearn Blue Box engine, there are tons of them out there. Check with your Local Hobby shop to, they may have what you want to at a $20 to $30 price.

Let me look around out in my parts stuff, I have boxes and boxes of parts older and newer loco's, I might be able to put an Athearn together for you and mail it to you for the cost of shipping, which should be around $5, I'll email you after I get done with this post, and we will talk about it. I have way to many engine parts and need to give some a good home, and you seem to need a good start, so I will help you out if I can.

ICRR1964

[Anonymous]

I have quite a bit of Life-Like Trainset Locomotives, cars, track buildings ect

My assessment of life-like train set level items.

Locomotives.

Decent detail. Reccomend taking shell and mounting on new drive, Or just rebuild the unit upon aquisistion.

Freight cars. Nice detail can be made to perform satisfactorily with talgo truck mounted Kadee Couplers. Reccomend converting to standard trucks and body mounted couplers however.

Passenger Cars.

No expereince with so can not comment. However they are shorter than scale length.


Standard Track -Non-Brass

as good as any other. However its not the most inexpensive however. Pricing to similar quantities often shows Atlas as having better price.

Standard Track- Brass

Same as all brass track. same failings***well.

Power Lock Track

No expereince with so can not comment. However Oddly shaped connecting system makes for harder transistioning to standard track even other forms of roadbed track. Also out of all lines of roadbed track avialable. Power Lock Track has the most limited number of pieces.

Power Packs

They do their job. Make the train go foward or back. and make for variable speed. But still not as finely crafted as an MRC power pack.

Buildings and Accessories.

Some of the best around. High Quality and several building kits intended for kitbashing. Large selection of signs telephone poles figures vehicles. Light up acessories are availalbe. All of them with a high level of detail.

Just my views on the Life-Like trainset Line.

James

[Anonymous]

avoid L-L turnouts too i bought a couple and they are crappy -one of them something broke and it doesn't change posisiton anymore, alexander13 -at www.trainworld.com they have a life-like PROTO 2000 (high-quality) alco pa for $29.99 that's what you'd pay for a "train-set" engine. there are deals on quality stuff- you just have to look

[icmr]

The train-set life like stuff use to be fun for me when I was 8 to 10 years old. Then I bought my first Athearn Blue Box locomotive and never looked back. I dont have it any more but I have an Athearn Genesis SD70 and a Proto 2000 SD60( much better than the cheap junk ). I bought my Proto SD60 for $50, I bought the Athearn Genesis SD70 for $125. I had a Kato SD80MAC that I bought for $105 but it commited suicide by jumping off of my layout.

By the way, life like's train set junk is the reason I hated Santa Fe locomotives for about 5 to 6 years.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]