What does everyone have against lifelike?

[Anonymous]

Is it just me or does everyone have something to say about lifelike that is not good. all too often i have heard them being described as cheap. as a young modeller i aspire to the expensive models but just can't afford them. i am not saying that they aren't without their faults, but if it wasn't for lifelike ALOT of kids wouldn't be in the hobby. i have not found any problem with them, so could someone clue me in as to why everyone hates lifelike? as i said i know that they are not without their faults, but why is everyone "paying them out"?

[SpaceMouse]

I don't know what others have against them, but I bought 3 P2K locos all of which had problems. I fixed one of them but the toher two I sent back to LL. They sent them back unfixed and lost the two decoders that were in them. They refused to replace the decoders.

[RedGrey62]

Lifelike has 3 distinct lines, Trainset, Proto 1000 and Proto 2000. I have had nothing but good things to say about the Proto 2000 stuff, I only have a couple of Proto 1000 itmes but I am satisfied with it as well. The trainset stuff may be what you're hearing about. It is very inexpensive, the quality control is not as high, nor is the accuracy. You are correct, Lifelike and Tyco (Mantua) probably has gotten alot of kids, including myself, into the hobby. Its just that after you start getting into the other lines and manufacturers, its easy to look down upon the trainset quality stuff.

Rick

[Anonymous]

i think the topic starter is talking about "train set" models (P2K is very, very expensive ) the train-set models (which cost about $30 for a loco) are junk- they have a tiny motor that only drives one truck, they have high-pitched gear noise , they run rough- i'm on a VERY tight budget and i only buy more expensive stuff (athearn, atlas, ect.) a used Athearn can be had for $20 and they're 100 times the loco that L-L is- Athearn has a large motor w/ dual flywheels and it drives all the wheels and they're quieter than L-L
alexander13 please tell us what you're reffering to- Life-Like "train-set", Life-Like PROTO 1000, or Life-Like PROTO 2000 - P2K and P1K are quite good.

[Anonymous]

Yes, redgrey62, 1 am talking about the trainset stuff, and i am not at the more expensive level, so i take it that you aside from the realisim level dom't have any big problems with them. i am aware that the expensive sets hace alot of realisim, but i am on a very tight budget.

[Tracklayer]

Why do I persoanlly have it in for Life Like ?. Go out and look in the junk drawer of my train room and you'll see why... Every Life Like loco I've ever owned (except for the higher end types) ran real real well for about a month or so, then kicked the bucket. I've tried taking them completely apart, cleaning them and oiling them with little or no positive results.

Like you, when I first got into the hobby I was attracted to them because of their price, but I finally learned the hard way that it's better to pay twice the price for a good loco that you can count on than to pay half the price for one that you can't. And don't even get me started about Bachmann's.

Good luck to you alexander13. You'll need it...

Tracklayer

[Anonymous]

i take it that the only problems with lifelike stuff is the locos. does that mean that the track, switches, rolling stock,etc is all fine (from a technical point of view at least?

[hdtvnut]

[:D]

Lifelike has made some cheap models in the past. But this is not
what I base my opinion on at all. They have made some of the the
best HO steam engine models ever to hit the market. The 2-8-8-2,
0-6-0 and 0-8-0 Heritage engines I have (2 each) in various road
names are the quietest and smoothest slow-running, compared to my
BLI's and Bachmanns. They have very nice detailing and look as good
or better than anything out there, including brass (my LL Berkshire
is, on the other hand, only an average runner).

My BLI and Bachmann steam (15 total) mostly look good, but I sure
would like to be able to put certain of their shells on some Lifelike
mechanisms!

I also have some LL E7's and E8/9's which run well and look OK, as
well as some smaller diesels.

So I don't know what people are referring to if they are dissing LL,
but I'll argue for the Proto 2000/Heritage locos any time.

You want trouble? Buy a Lionel Challenger (overweight, badly made
drive), an Athearn Genesis 4-6-2 (gear that cracks), or a BLI
Mountain (ragged low-speed, noisy). I'm sure not all are bad, but
I wouldn't buy any more.

Hal

[Tracklayer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13

i take it that the only problems with lifelike stuff is the locos. does that mean that the track, switches, rolling stock,etc is all fine (from a technical point of view at least?

I have nothing against Life Like rolling stock or transformers. As a matter of fact I own and run a number of their box cars that I've never had any problems with. I also have one of their old transformers that I still use that works as well as it did when it was new.

Tracklayer

[icmr]

The train-set life like stuff use to be fun for me when I was 8 to 10 years old. Then I bought my first Athearn Blue Box locomotive and never looked back. I dont have it any more but I have an Athearn Genesis SD70 and a Proto 2000 SD60( much better than the cheap junk ). I bought my Proto SD60 for $50, I bought the Athearn Genesis SD70 for $125. I had a Kato SD80MAC that I bought for $105 but it commited suicide by jumping off of my layout.

By the way, life like's train set junk is the reason I hated Santa Fe locomotives for about 5 to 6 years.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[Anonymous]

avoid L-L turnouts too i bought a couple and they are crappy -one of them something broke and it doesn't change posisiton anymore, alexander13 -at www.trainworld.com they have a life-like PROTO 2000 (high-quality) alco pa for $29.99 that's what you'd pay for a "train-set" engine. there are deals on quality stuff- you just have to look

[Anonymous]

I have quite a bit of Life-Like Trainset Locomotives, cars, track buildings ect

My assessment of life-like train set level items.

Locomotives.

Decent detail. Reccomend taking shell and mounting on new drive, Or just rebuild the unit upon aquisistion.

Freight cars. Nice detail can be made to perform satisfactorily with talgo truck mounted Kadee Couplers. Reccomend converting to standard trucks and body mounted couplers however.

Passenger Cars.

No expereince with so can not comment. However they are shorter than scale length.


Standard Track -Non-Brass

as good as any other. However its not the most inexpensive however. Pricing to similar quantities often shows Atlas as having better price.

Standard Track- Brass

Same as all brass track. same failings***well.

Power Lock Track

No expereince with so can not comment. However Oddly shaped connecting system makes for harder transistioning to standard track even other forms of roadbed track. Also out of all lines of roadbed track avialable. Power Lock Track has the most limited number of pieces.

Power Packs

They do their job. Make the train go foward or back. and make for variable speed. But still not as finely crafted as an MRC power pack.

Buildings and Accessories.

Some of the best around. High Quality and several building kits intended for kitbashing. Large selection of signs telephone poles figures vehicles. Light up acessories are availalbe. All of them with a high level of detail.

Just my views on the Life-Like trainset Line.

James

[ICRR1964]

I will leave the word "junk" out of it for you alexander13, we all have to start some where. We all crossed the road or entry level starter sets and moved up to better running loco's and details. What you own is a start for you, and thats great. But you will move up to better built and running loco's soon. I know your young and want it all, but if I were you I would hit some train shows and try and find a good used Athearn Blue Box engine, there are tons of them out there. Check with your Local Hobby shop to, they may have what you want to at a $20 to $30 price.

Let me look around out in my parts stuff, I have boxes and boxes of parts older and newer loco's, I might be able to put an Athearn together for you and mail it to you for the cost of shipping, which should be around $5, I'll email you after I get done with this post, and we will talk about it. I have way to many engine parts and need to give some a good home, and you seem to need a good start, so I will help you out if I can.

ICRR1964

[Anonymous]

Life Like has the best starter sets on the market right now.

Let me explain:

Recently they have started to phase the old crappy sets out and replaced them with sets with Proto 1000 engines and Proto 2000 cars! And higher quality power-loc track.

I dont know if this is a Walthers decision or if it was started before the buyout, but my hats off to LL.


I have never had any problems with the P2K deisels I own, Not even a cracked axle yet. I have nothing but nice things to say about Life Like.

[Anonymous]

Do you think that Walthers purchase of LL will raise the level? Just wondering as I have an order for the RS27 that's now due in March.

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

I will leave the word "junk" out of it for you alexander13, we all have to start some where. We all crossed the road or entry level starter sets and moved up to better running loco's and details. What you own is a start for you, and thats great. But you will move up to better built and running loco's soon. I know your young and want it all, but if I were you I would hit some train shows and try and find a good used Athearn Blue Box engine, there are tons of them out there. Check with your Local Hobby shop to, they may have what you want to at a $20 to $30 price.

Let me look around out in my parts stuff, I have boxes and boxes of parts older and newer loco's, I might be able to put an Athearn together for you and mail it to you for the cost of shipping, which should be around $5, I'll email you after I get done with this post, and we will talk about it. I have way to many engine parts and need to give some a good home, and you seem to need a good start, so I will help you out if I can.

ICRR1964

Now THIS is what the forum is all about, not useless posts about nothing. Once in a while off topic is OK, but we are supposed to be HELPING each other.

I've said it before (buried no doubt in inanity) that too often the word “junk” is thrown out there without taking a really close look at what the QUESTION was. Yes, Life Like has its toy like aspects, but for this young man it’s all he’s got. I’d be put off this hobby very quickly if all I owned was “junk” in everybody’s eyes and I wasn’t able to afford better.

Not everybody wants or can afford the cutting edge of technology; some of us have to start at the beginning. Let’s not forget that.
[bow][bow][bow][bow] I bow to you ICRR1964!

[ICRR1964]

Thank you Tangerine-Jack! I want to help out the younger people as much as I can. I have some parent's sons who come down to my shop once a week if they see my lite on come on in. Both boys don't have any thing at all for MR, so I gave them each an older good running loco and let them do what they want with them, paint, details, or whatever they want to do to them. They run them on my layout most of the time and have fun. But when it comes time to fix them, its there job to do repairs if need, that way they learn. I have to supply the parts though.

dingois & icrr,
We all know you guys are young, and I am not just bashing you guys for the heck of it. You guys seem to forget what it was like starting out. Like TJ said, your comments you guys make about some poor guys engine being junk to him is a sure way to chase him away from the hobby. So your word "junk you keep saying to people on what they own is not what they want to here. I've said something to you befor dingoix before about your disrepect towards others about what they own or what question they have, and you throw the word junk into it then. Some people have piles of money to buy anything they want, others don't. You seem to know everything you think about everything you read or have heard. You were bragging it up about a week ago about how a low end LL you had would out pull your Atlas 12 wheel U-boat, now its junk? Come one, show this guy some simple respect and be abit more open minded to his feelings and knowledge. Since you know everything, I will just keep trying to learn in this hobby like many others, and offer help and ask for it. I will leave the word "junk" out of it. Dingoix, if you spent a bit more time working on your MR, and quit hanging in the forum for hours on end creating polls and trying to answer every thread, you might get done with you setup.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: What does everyone have against lifelike?

TWO thing's:

1. Price increase of Proto line.
2. Quality level of 'LL' (basic toy) train's.

Their Proto 2000 rates high for 'Bang for the Buck', and distribution is now more Retail oriented - hence the uncertain pricing.
The Proto 1000 is essentially a no-frills BB Athearn with directional lighting and better paint.
Life Like's basic line is toy like - look's like it - and run's like it.
LL's 'Heritage' steam has been a 'Superior' product, their best, and equal to to the best.

GRUMBLE DPT: Some of the earlier PROTO's had axle gear's crack due to overly tight axle tolerances. LL replaced them N/C, and replacement is a 'drop in' repair for the owner.

If that is too formidable, there is Athearn RTR @ higher prices - which has had their own new-product 'teething' problems. IF ONE expect's expect's 100% perfection, then one must pay for the privelege and then it's no longer a hobby.

[chutton01]

So, can we at least agree that Life-like offers some pretty neat detail parts like trash cans, benches, lamp poles, etc. (which usually are more detailed and better molded than Model Power or IHC equivalents), although they do look better with repainting and/or dullcoating/weathering.

Some of their buildings are good too (well, building, being the Police Station, Fire Station, and Bank - eh..., the 7/11 Ace Mart is pretty nice too, although I reserve judgement on the country store/church).

Besides, their slogan still rings in my head (along with the old school MR 'Model Railroading Is Fun') - 'So Real, It's Life-Like'

[Anonymous]

The Lionel Challenger is NOT overweight.

In fact if the Life Like proto steam weighted as MUCH as that so called overweight Lionel and ran just as well THEN I will consider myself in model railroad heaven.

I had a Life Like F unit in a train set in the late 70's it ran around the oval at top speed for about 20 years until the motor ground away too much of the innards to function. By that time I had undersstood what was quality and what was JUNK.

Tyco is still JUNK. But.... I learned to treat them as materials for practicing airbrushing and kitbashing only what I am just now beginning to explore.

Life Like does a decent job. But it's BLI for me in steam.

[Soo Line fan]

Life-Like gets a lot of praise on this site, it is just in the form of P1K and P2K.
I have 2 P2K SD60Ms, 2 P2K SD60s and 2 P2K GP30s. I really like all of them. Like most people, I had a Life-Like loco. It was a F40 with the single truck motor. The shell is now on an Atlas GP 40. The buildings are real nice. Rolling stock is the same as Bachmann and Tyco. You have to plug the truck hole and mount Athearn trucks and body mount KDs.

We slam all the entry-level stuff pretty equally. Bachmann gets it pretty good, as does Tyco. We are not just picking on your stuff.

Most entry-level stuff is designed to get you into the hobby, not keep you in it. As your skills and finances improve, you will move on to better quality stuff, as we all have. We all started out where you are at one time or another. I started with a Tyco set.

Have fun with your trains and keep the questions coming.

Jim

[simon1966]

Many moons ago there was a really meaty conversation about the apparent lack of new blood coming into the hobby. It seemed that almost all the Newbies were like me, 40 somethings that had trains as a kid, and now had some time and money to spend on the hobby. One of the themes of that thread was that "cheap" trainset equipment from LifeLike and Bachmann was potentially damaging to the hobby as folks would soon tire of un-reliable equipment. I am not sure that I subscribe to that theory, but I think that there may be some validity. From my own experience, I quickly discovered that I did not want to run LifeLike basic equipment. My one diesel has no flywheel, minimal wheel pickup, is very noisy and runs very poorly. I soon found that for very little more money, I could get Proto 2K units at train shows and on e-bay. There is no comparison in my mind. Now the LifeLike freight cars have been just fine. Mine all have metal wheels now, Kadee's and have be weighted, weathered and in the case of gondolas, had loads installed. I thoroghly enjoyed getting them to that state and they are running happily on the layout with much higher end equipment. I think to be fair, that most of us middle aged modellers would prefer to spend the extra buck on a better level of model, but that does not mean that they can not be enjoyed, and be a platform to move onto more advanced levels of the hobby. The great news is that if you are on a tight budget, these LifeLike and Bachmann cars can be picked up for very little money 2nd hand at trains shows. Think of them as a low cost blank canvas that you can flex your modelling muscle on, and you can create some fine rolling stock.

[ICRR1964]

Yep, lets not forget the other entry level trains. Thay are good for opening doors to other MR worlds.

[tstage]

Alexander,

The more expensive LifeLike locomotives - i.e. Proto 1000 and 2000 lines - are better and can be had at or near the price of the cheaper Trainset line. You just have to know where to shop. I bought my Proto 2000 S1switcher (regularly $110) from Trainworld.com for $29.99. It flat out crawls. It also depends what era of locomotive you are looking for.

Tom

[tangerine-jack]

Hmm, I just wonder what a few $$ means to a guy in his 30's or 40's as compared to a young man about 13 with no job and maybe $20 to his name from cutting grass. It's all about perspective. I went to G scale because I can now afford to do so. $300 for a loco and $80 for a box car does not hurt me much, but when I was 13 or so I had Tyco and Life-like because it was all I could afford or could get on the $5 a week allowance I got. Try to keep the answers in perspective of the person asking.

Telling Alexander to spend more money to buy better stuff is not the best answer I can think of. Encouraging him to be creative with what he has is a better route to travel. Great model railroads are built from the imagination, not purchased out of a box.

Yes, there are many great locos out there, and we all know quality cost money, but why aren't we all driving a BMW or Viper? Can't afford one and have to drive your "junk" Mustang instead? Maybe you should get rid of that "junk" F150 and buy a "real" truck like an H2 Hummer. Speaking of that, get rid of that "junk" house you live in and buy a beach condo, after all it's built of better materials. Same thing is happening with this hobby. Seems like everybody has "junk" except for the ones who don't.

Sure, in a few months, maybe a year, he will have saved up enough money to buy a better loco, but what about in the mean time? Will he always be dissapointed every time he runs the only "junk" loco he owns? How is that positive for the hobby? Maybe in a few months of running "junk" he'll decide this hobby is too expensive and move on.

OK, I'm off my soapbox now.................................

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: You were bragging it up about a week ago about how a low end LL you had would out pull your Atlas 12 wheel U-boat, now its junk? Come one, show this guy some simple respect and be abit more open minded to his feelings and knowledge

first of all i did call my L-L junk after i mentioned it'd outpull the U-boat, but , yes L-L is excellent way to start the hobby (it's how i started) but it won't be long before it becomes "low-end" for most people- i was trying to say "it's great to get you rolling, but don't buy them forever" once you've had something higher-end you'll get rid of the L-L as fast as you can. Don't take my earlier post the wrong way, but i just wanted out new guy to know this stuff isn't exactly high-end.

[RedGrey62]

I will add this. The "cheap" stuff did help me be a better modeler. As already stated a few times, I had no problem cutting a few up to try some new techniques. One of the best and worst attempts at weathering were on the same care. One side came out great, the other side, well, you get the picture.

I think my entry level Tyco, AHM, LL, and Bachman stuff taught me alot about how to find and cure problems. But they really let me have fun too. In some ways I miss the, innocence?, of those train sets.

Rick

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Dingoix, if you spent a bit more time working on your MR, and quit hanging in the forum for hours on end creating polls and trying to answer every thread, you might get done with you setup.

i'd love to but there's nothing to do on my layout until i get about $200 worth of track

[Budliner]

walthers

[hdtvnut]

On the subject of weight: perhaps the Lionel Challenger isn't overweight, but the weight
doesn't seem to help it any. Some careful drawbar tests I did showed that my Challenger
could exert 2.4 oz force, while my LL Clinchfield matched it with 2.5 oz. I had heard
reports about how little such a heavy loco seemed able to pull, but getting one and testing
it proved they were right. My first Challenger also weaved from side to side, and it was
exchanged for one a little better. I like it anyway.

Hal