What does everyone have against lifelike?

[twhite]

I have two Proto 2000 steamers and they don't pull for poop--especially since they cost me quite a bit initially. Other than that, I've not done any dealing with Lifelike. Not likely to in the future, either.
Tom [xx(]

[aloco]

As brand names, the words 'Proto 2000', ' P2K', 'Proto 1000', or 'Proto' are not in my vocabulary. This is all LIFE-LIKE stuff, pure and simple. I have lots of Life-Like locos, and they all run good.

As for the 'train set' or 'toy train' stuff that Life-Like makes, I have a name for that ... DEATH-LIKE!

[jondrd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by hdtvnut

[:D]

Lifelike has made some cheap models in the past. But this is not
what I base my opinion on at all. They have made some of the the
best HO steam engine models ever to hit the market. The 2-8-8-2,
0-6-0 and 0-8-0 Heritage engines I have (2 each) in various road
names are the quietest and smoothest slow-running, compared to my
BLI's and Bachmanns. They have very nice detailing and look as good
or better than anything out there, including brass (my LL Berkshire
is, on the other hand, only an average runner).

My BLI and Bachmann steam (15 total) mostly look good, but I sure
would like to be able to put certain of their shells on some Lifelike
mechanisms!

Bachmann Spectrum has most of its line with wired tenders. P2K's 0-8-0 has it on latest sound issue model(expensive). For alexandert3 this could be an important consideration. Do agree with other forum members who cite little pulling power for P2K steam although only steamer I have is P2K 0-8-0. No complaint with pulling power of P2K diesels; have only covered wagon models.

I've got P2K, Spectrum, Genesis, IHC and BLI. I would never ever consider putting BLI shells on P2K mechanisms(if possible). I've apparently been very lucky with these purchases because problems referenced on the forum for each line I have not (so far) experienced. BLI's are my best runners-for the price they should be.

It's possible as one forum member stated on another thread that manufacturers all have (had?) sporadic quality issues. Anyone getting started would be well advised to get most locomotive he can afford; trainset stuff is not the way to start out. [tdn] Could be more of a turn off than a turn on to the hobby. JMHO

Jon

[james saunders]

i say if a trainset is say $50? why not get a P2K S1 from trainworld for $29.99 and a couple of freight cars and a loop of track and your rolling... better value than that life like junk.

but hey my first trains where hand me downs, a bachmann J class, Rivarossi hudson, and a few british models, but i also bought a LL train set, that was a waste of time, i threw it out after a couple of weeks, it was absolute junk!. now i own P2K, Atlas,spectrum and never looked back... my freight cars are, athearn, atlas, bachmann,P2K... now i want to get some Athearn RTR GP35s and some BLI and im set.

OZJIM

[MAbruce]

While you guys are talking about your experiences in HO scale, LL has been a real benefit to us in N-scale. For the past few years they have stepped up and produced some solid N-scale locos at reasonable prices. In fact most of my loco roster is LL.

However there now seems to be widespread concern over the purchase of LL by Walthers. It’s been a longstanding perception that Walthers is not really dedicated to N-scale, and now that they have LL, all we have seen is the prices go up on the latest releases that LL announced before being purchased. In fact, and please correct me if I’m wrong, we have not seen any new N-scale announcements from LL since Walthers purchased them.

So we wait and hope that Walthers will not erase the niche that LL held in N-scale.

[NevinW]

There is no question that both Lifelike and Bachmann have come a long ways with their spectrum and P2K lines. While I hesitate to call something junk because that might be all someone can afford. Much of their trainset stuff has been of such poor quality that I am afraid that we have lost many people from this hobby simply because they bought it, brought it home, it didn't work right, they threw it out and now they fly model airplanes or build model ships or collect stamps. Athearn engines are vastly superior for the money. - Nevin

[ICRR1964]

dingoix,
Bottom line here son, is everytime someone puts a post up about needing a part, or advice, or simple questions about an older or MR loco or car, you seem to throw the word "junk" at it. You need to go back and look at allot of your post that focus on Tyco, Bachmann, Model Power, and some of the older MR manufactures. And lets not forget P2K that took a simple beating from a bunch of members to point out to you about P2k not being your labeled "junk" as you called it.

I feel sorry for people that ask a question or are new to the hobby, and you turn around and you throw the word "junk" at them. Some how I cannot get you to understand this, so keep up the good work and scare as many people away from MR as you can.

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

QUOTE: Dingoix, if you spent a bit more time working on your MR, and quit hanging in the forum for hours on end creating polls and trying to answer every thread, you might get done with you setup.

i'd love to but there's nothing to do on my layout until i get about $200 worth of track

So it seems the "expert" has nothing running. Interesting, very interesting. If you need track, email me and I'll send you about $200 worth of Atlas track, assuming you don't think it's "junk".

[BRAKIE]

Sadly Life Like P2K locomotives has issues from being slow runners to the crack gear problem to detail flaws..Now I am reading that LL QC has been hit and miss.Who can easily forget that ton of grease that LL use in the gear boxes?
Its sad to think I had to replace gears in 29 P2K Geeps and these older Geeps are still out there being bought by the unsuspecting modeler.Will Walthers replace these faulty gears as they show up for free? I suspect Walthers will follow their policy of replacing broken or missing parts for free.

Now the days of 29.99 and $39,99 P2K locomotives will draw to a close due to the recent price hikes of the P2K engines.

On the bright side I still fully believe that the Walthers P2K Geeps are the best detailed on the market.[:D]

[waltersrails]

i like the proto's some of the old stuff ain't bad if you can upgrade it.

[ICRR1964]

Brakie,
You are so right about that. I lucked out a day ago on a bid on Ebay for a used P2K GP18 in the IC road, got it for $26.00. Its used and I bet it has cracked gears, quick fix though. I have noticed allot of older P2K's going allot higher the past few months as you stated on Ebay, bet it is because Walthers owns it now and the higher price has affected the older and used loco's.

dingoix,
How much track you need? I'm with TJ here, I will send you some if you need it, I got boxes of it. Can you just pay the shipping cost though? I have allot of older Atlas, Bachmann, "junk" Tyco as you call it that is sitting around doing nothing. I am willing to give you some so you can get back to work. Most of it is brass track, but since you are on a tight budget, it might help you out.

[icmr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ICRR1964

Thank you Tangerine-Jack! I want to help out the younger people as much as I can. I have some parent's sons who come down to my shop once a week if they see my lite on come on in. Both boys don't have any thing at all for MR, so I gave them each an older good running loco and let them do what they want with them, paint, details, or whatever they want to do to them. They run them on my layout most of the time and have fun. But when it comes time to fix them, its there job to do repairs if need, that way they learn. I have to supply the parts though.

dingois & icrr,
We all know you guys are young, and I am not just bashing you guys for the heck of it. You guys seem to forget what it was like starting out. Like TJ said, your comments you guys make about some poor guys engine being junk to him is a sure way to chase him away from the hobby. So your word "junk you keep saying to people on what they own is not what they want to here. I've said something to you befor dingoix before about your disrepect towards others about what they own or what question they have, and you throw the word junk into it then. Some people have piles of money to buy anything they want, others don't. You seem to know everything you think about everything you read or have heard. You were bragging it up about a week ago about how a low end LL you had would out pull your Atlas 12 wheel U-boat, now its junk? Come one, show this guy some simple respect and be abit more open minded to his feelings and knowledge. Since you know everything, I will just keep trying to learn in this hobby like many others, and offer help and ask for it. I will leave the word "junk" out of it. Dingoix, if you spent a bit more time working on your MR, and quit hanging in the forum for hours on end creating polls and trying to answer every thread, you might get done with you setup.

ICRR1964, I am not putting down all of the trainset Life Like stuff, just the stuff I had that quit me within a week of when I bought it. Trust me, I havent forgot what it was like to start out. After my life like stuff quit me and my grandpa died I setup his Lionel set and ran that, then I switched back to HO after I found a used BB and ran that until it died. There was a period of time when I wasnt in the hobby. In a sense I started twice, once in 1996 and once in 2002-2003. And I will say this now I dont have a pile of money laying around. Right now I am saving up my money to get track and roadbed.

A lot of what I just said maybe nonsense but I dont forget what it is like to start out. It is even harder when your only engines die on you and you have no way of fixing them. I have a MTH A-A set that my cousin wrecked about 6 years ago. I have never gotten it fixed because I dont have the money.

ICRR1964 if you want to know why I am a little mad right now go to my For Illinois Central Fans topic.

Next time you want to discuss something like this email me. Im sure nobody wants to hear this. I will also say that you have no right to tell dingoix that he should be working on his layout instead of posting polls and trying to post to every topic. You might want to read my entire topic. You might find out something you didnt know.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[ICRR1964]

icmr, check your emails and we will talk about there, I'm fine with that.

[icmr]

Ok. I will check them.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[icmr]

ICRR1964 sorry about my post getting a little heated.



Victor

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: So it seems the "expert" has nothing running. Interesting, very interesting. If you need track, email me and I'll send you about $200 worth of Atlas track, assuming you don't think it's "junk".

not true! i have a running 4'x12' layout, but i can't lay any more track or anything (until i get more)- ICRR1964 and tangerine-jack -thanks for the offer. i use ATLAS code 100 turnouts and flextrack, but i need straight track too. (and no i don't think atlas is junk track) i was planning to expand my layout but i am running trains and i have 2 of the yard tracks completed.

[ICRR1964]

Well how many peices do you need and I will sent them to you?

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce

While you guys are talking about your experiences in HO scale, LL has been a real benefit to us in N-scale. For the past few years they have stepped up and produced some solid N-scale locos at reasonable prices. In fact most of my loco roster is LL.

Thanks MAbruce. That was something I had intended to point out in this thread. Life Like "train set" quality locomotives in 'N' scale are not bad at all. The locomotives have dual flywheel motors and all-wheel pickup and drive. The first locomotive I owned was a LL standard F40PH. I've always been very happy with it. The level of detail is not bad and it has been a consistent good performer. The loco runs quietly and has pretty good low-speed operation (not as good as my Kato, but equal to my Spectrum and P2K). I certainly do not consider my F40PH to be "junk". It remains, after more than two years, one of my more reliable locomotives.

[:)]

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

QUOTE: So it seems the "expert" has nothing running. Interesting, very interesting. If you need track, email me and I'll send you about $200 worth of Atlas track, assuming you don't think it's "junk".

not true! i have a running 4'x12' layout, but i can't lay any more track or anything (until i get more)- ICRR1964 and tangerine-jack -thanks for the offer. i use ATLAS code 100 turnouts and flextrack, but i need straight track too. (and no i don't think atlas is junk track) i was planning to expand my layout but i am running trains and i have 2 of the yard tracks completed.

No prob! Buy why do you say there is nothing to do? Why can't you do some wiring, maybe some scenery, perhaps upgrade some rolling stock, paint, weather, super detail a building, etc etc etc? Always something to do!

[Anonymous]

i am planning on buying a pair of b-b's and paint and decal them, but it'll be a while before i do.

[jeffers_mz]

alexander13

By now you have gathered that Lifelike has three different lines of trains, that the jusy is ouit on the mid price line and the high line, and that most people here do not run the recently offered low price line on a regular basis. You asked specifically about the low end line, and I will address that.

I have two layouts here, one is an old time mining operation, and the other is a sky is the limit diesel/steam/military/Grinchline introductorey train layout for my kids. Both of them, the highly detailed old time mountain steam trains, and the whatever the kids feel like firewalling the throttle on today, run on the same track. My old time steam only comes out when the kids aren't around, or have grown bored with their diesels and are doing something else.

I run a variety of expensive and detailed equipment on my old mining camp, Spectrums, MDC, Model Power, Mantua, and run mostly Lifelike cars and locomotives when the kids are involved. Well meaning relatives have purtchases 3 different Lifelike trainsets for my kids since September, so we have a lot of their equipment and a lot of experience running it recently.

I like the Lifelike locomotives, especially the GP-38-2's low and high nose. They pull the best on the layout bar none, steam or diesel. They aren't so expensive that I will suffer a thousand deaths if one hits the floor, and with my kids involved, locos hitting the floor is only a matter of time. It WILL happen. I like them well enough I bought a second GP-38 this past weekend, and it works as well as the first two.

The locomotives aren't super detailed. If they were, I'd like them even better, as long as the cost didn't go up to where I was afraid to let the kids enjoy them. The low speed operation is a little iffy, stopping and starting instead of crawling, but at medium and high speed, the operation is smooth is a little noisy. The GP-38's work well in tandem, and two of them MUed together will pull a prodigious line of cars up a steep grade.

The rolling stock and freight cars aren't all that. The colors are a little bit gaudy, they are dangerously underweight, they use talgo trucks with coupler box and truck in one unit. On curves, the coupler tends to pu***he car in front of it or behind it sideways off the track because of this. Between the talgo trucks, the lack of proper weighting, and the X2F couplers, ther Lifelike rolling stock derails frequently, until someone takes the time and effort to bring the freight cars up to snuff. They need new trucks with metal wheels, new coupler boxes, and to be brought up to the proper weight using lead shot or stick on weights. At that point they work properly, but they still look a little gaudy. Spray paint runs a buck a can at Wal-mart, and a whole page of decals only costs $6.

The passenger trains are shorter than prototype, but that makes them perform better. Right out of the box, underweight, talgo type trucks, X2F couplers, they stay on the track better than any other rolling stock on my layout, bar none. I have never had even a single derailment with them, it's like they are glued to the track. The factory lighting impresses the kids, and me too a little bit. It saves my time and effort for lighting up the expensive old time cars that didn't come with any.

In time, you will basically end up with what you pay for. Lifelike will start you off inexpensively, but to keep them on the track and get them looking sharp, you will eventually invest the same money it would have taken to buy more expensive equipment to begin with.

However, there is no guarantee that expensive equipment won't require fiddling and tweaking also, about half of mine does, new weight, new couplers, metal wheels in some cases.

Here's my recommendation. Get a Lifelike loco and some cars, or run with the ones you may already have. Do what you have to to keep them on the track. You will learn a lot doing this.

Decide if you want to repeat the experience and either buy some more or change to another brand and a whole different set of problems. In other words, don't buy an entire Lifelike fleet all at once, ease into the brand a little before deciding to plunge or experiment elsewhere.

Straight from the hip, there are the pros and cons of the equipment line you asked about. In the end, whatever gives you the most pleasure is all that matters. If Lifelike fits your budget, and you don't mind a little learning experience, go for it.

[CrossTrack Trains]

It's too bad Life-like doesn't have a real catalog because the Proto 2000's are pretty good. Maybe Walthers will put out an extensive catalog now that they own Life-Like.

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeffers_mz

..................................
However, there is no guarantee that expensive equipment won't require fiddling and tweaking also, about half of mine does, new weight, new couplers, metal wheels in some cases.
Here's my recommendation. Get a Lifelike loco and some cars, or run with the ones you may already have. Do what you have to to keep them on the track. You will learn a lot doing this.......................

.............................
Straight from the hip, there are the pros and cons of the equipment line you asked about. In the end, whatever gives you the most pleasure is all that matters. If Lifelike fits your budget, and you don't mind a little learning experience, go for it.

That's the spirit! Exactly, only Alexander can decide in the end what HE wants!

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

i am planning on buying a pair of b-b's and paint and decal them, but it'll be a while before i do.

Too much planning and not enough doing makes dingoix a dull boy.....................[;)][:p]

[northern_blues]

I've only experience with P2K. I bought a CP GP7 and a CN GP9. One came DCC ready and I popped in a decoder and it runs beautifully. The other I had to completely solder in the decode but it runs fairly well.

The paint detail on both the CP and CN was simply excellent, so I have no complaints.

-Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: The passenger trains are shorter than prototype, but that makes them perform better. Right out of the box, underweight, talgo type trucks, X2F couplers, they stay on the track better than any other rolling stock on my layout, bar none. I have never had even a single derailment with them, it's like they are glued to the track.

[#ditto] i can run my L-L pass. cars for hours on end at 100 scale m.p.h. w/o derailing

QUOTE: Too much planning and not enough doing makes dingoix a dull boy.

[(-D]
but things go better when it's all planned out[;)]

[Anonymous]

Everyone needs to start somewhere.

[Anonymous]

To all of you who pointed out that i am 13 years old, with maybe $30 bucks in my pocket, you are quite right. i know that the realisiam is not that good, but i don't exaimine my locos with a maginyfing glass. i have already had extremely generous realitives gige me over $250 in presents at christmas. to those that say they are cheap, weell i can not use the junk. oh, i only realised, all my locos are junk. better leave the hobby. itf all the young kids leave, and you all die, the hobby dies out. i won't do that, but you must realize that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13

To all of you who pointed out that i am 13 years old, with maybe $30 bucks in my pocket, you are quite right. i know that the realisiam is not that good, but i don't exaimine my locos with a maginyfing glass. i have already had extremely generous realitives gige me over $250 in presents at christmas. to those that say they are cheap, weell i can not use the junk. oh, i only realised, all my locos are junk. better leave the hobby. itf all the young kids leave, and you all die, the hobby dies out. i won't do that, but you must realize that.

Hi Alex,

I can sympathise with you. I am presently unemployed and have no money to spend on a layout. I am fortunae that since I have been in the hobby for 20 years I got alot of stuff to fall back on and work on and spruce up and tidy up. But recuriting new people like you are am heavily involved in. And actually even though Basic Life-Like trainset equipment is not the best performing in the world. I still use what I have as I have a shortage of Motive power and life-like trainset locomotives move under their own power and are capable of pulling a load. The definition of servicable in my book. So dont be disheartened. No body says you can't use it.

James

[Medina1128]

There IS a place for the cheaper trainset stuff, even to an experienced modeler. I have an old LL Santa Fe locomotive that I used to test track. My layout is at the stage where the track is in place, but not all of the scenery is. I'd be heartbroke if my BLI Santa Fe 4-8-4 derailed and hit the floor. They're also good for modeling static scenes. I cut the oversize steps off, shave off the molded grabirons and replace them with bent wire. Painted, distressed and weathered and they make good background stock. Remember that locomotive you saw at the park? It didn't run, but you climbed all over, in and around it. Let some "little" people have the same kind of fun!