All Hail John Allen!

[twhite]

Well, if we're going to have a lynching in Effigy, I'll bring the rope, but it'll be HO scale, so I don't know how much good it'll do. BTW, where IS Effigy, anyway--is it a suburb of Chicago?
Tom [:P]

[davekelly]

Maybe I'm weird or wired differently or just don't get it. I admire the work of John Allen. I admire the work of Bruce Chubb (technical guru). I admire the work of Tony Koester. Allen McClernard (sp?), Jim Hediger, George Selios, Malcom Furlow, Art Curren (kitbashing god!), Bob Hayden, the guy with the Delta Lines (forget the name) and a host of others. What puts them in esteem in my mind is that each accomplished a heck of a lot in this hobby and each is/was willing to share their talent, experience and techniques. These guys didn't make a whole lot by writing their articles (probably less than minimum wage) but did so to help the rest of us. Isn't that worth something?

[SpaceMouse]

Well, I'm not going to lynch you cause I don't have any rope. Danged, I knew I forgot something.

Can somebody lynch this poor man so he doesn't feel left out.

[route_rock]

Ill bring the firetruck and wear a t shirt that says dont burn me! Anyhow I like Johns style, also love Bruce Chubb and Malcom Furlow, Andy Sperendeo, Jim Hediger , Tony , Al etc etc.
Everyone brings something to the table ok. My layout is freelanced ( going to be) narrow gauge in Moline Rock Island area of Illinois. Dont think I havent taken crap for that! But I am going to have some folklore tossed in. Section head was Finnegan, Super of the road was Flannigan! Plus all kinds of whimsy. Double track high speed? You bet! Just for fun I will pioneer the first piggy back of a horse adn buggy on flat car!
Thing is John brought fun to the hobby. SOme of the pics like the lynching of the diesel salesman! The wreck pictures of stock cars piled up by a tunnel.All brings visual intrest. I dont expect to see this on the Utah Belt or the V&O but if thats what you want so be it! This is one reason I am going turn of the century. To show neat little scenes and toss in some odd ball stuff just for grins !
Let the lynching begin !

[dwRavenstar]

heya selector,

That was what my last post was trying to bring to light.
Unless I've been typing in my sleep and therefore have no recollection I'd say that the majority of my posts have been espousing the concept that individuals have the right to create what satisfies THEM and no need of being critical re the efforts of others.

Ravenstar

[Roadtrp]

This would all be a lot easier to keep track of if those involved on each side wore different uniforms.

[(-D]

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dwRavenstar

Lemme see, the response was to the post by marknewton and would have in fact defended your post.

In light of that I'd say that by being "quite the ***" perhaps I'm in good company.

As far as my knickers, I'm wearing none and think it's some other who has a bunching problem that needs dealt with. Far as growing up, I celebrated my 50th last summer and have grown children.

In light of my emotings, I've yet to make a disparraging comment about you or anyone else as I try to treat individuals with due respect.

Look (or in this case, read) before leaping.

Ravenstar

If I may, I think one of you misattributed an inflammatory remark. You'll both have to realize that you are on the same side...I think. Was the first remark meant for someone else, maybe?

-Crandell

[davekelly]

And water cannons!!

[SpaceMouse]

OR two groups of protesters being held back by National Guard in full riot gear.

[davekelly]

This thread began with a question concerning anyone having a tribute to John Allen on their layouts. I don't have one, but the last several pages of this thread has given me a thought.

How about a huge street protest consisting of some folks trying to hang John Allen in effigy with an equally large crowd trying to "rescue" the target? It can be complete with various signs being carried by protestors of each side ("Hail the Wizard" "Down with Caricature" "Is it art?" "Realism over everything"). We can have a guy in the middle trying to make sure things don't get out of hand (perhaps he should look like Bergie).

[dwRavenstar]

Lemme see, the response was to the post by marknewton and would have in fact defended your post.

In light of that I'd say that by being "quite the ***" perhaps I'm in good company.

As far as my knickers, I'm wearing none and think it's some other who has a bunching problem that needs dealt with. Far as growing up, I celebrated my 50th last summer and have grown children.

In light of my emotings, I've yet to make a disparraging comment about you or anyone else as I try to treat individuals with due respect.

Look (or in this case, read) before leaping.

Ravenstar

[SpaceMouse]

BC,

I wouldn't hurt edit to tone your response down. While you may be "right", there are two courses of action, escalate or deflate, one course creates more problems than it solves.

[bcammack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dwRavenstar

QUOTE: Originally posted by marknewton

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

"You don't have to be creative to have a realistic model railroad. There are techniques and you don't have to be an artist, just a technician."

I think that realism resonates with those who do not have a strong creative side. I think that creativity can be cultivated, however.

LOL! What an extraordinary conceit.

But that's okay - I often think that artistic modelling appeals to those who aren't strong on technique.

Mark.

You've successfully raised the bar regarding extraordinary conceit by implying that since you are actively and solely involved in precise recreation of a specific scene and moment you are possessing stronger technical skills than some others.

I'll drink both instant and drip brewed coffee so I'm not taking sides if ten of us were to build a cup before starting a discussion. Upon comparing methods I'm certain we'd find some who prefer cream, others black, some running on one scoop of sugar or as many as three while others would wretch at the thought of sweetener in any form. We'd share a common interest but would employ differing methods. It's a matter of taste and what satisfies each individual.

I don't feel that I have the right to dictate methods to anyone but myself and I still believe that each of us does what makes us happy in the privacy of our own home. The finished product is an expression of desire and not a yardstick to judge skills and techniques or the lack of same.

Often one attacks to keep the opponent from doing the same. Make them defensive in order to avoid the need to defend. It seems to be a display of insecurity.

dwRavenstar

You're quite the ***, you know that? I have been posting here that this is a "big tent" where people can be technicians and go for hyperrealism or be as daftly artistic about it as Malcom Furlow and you're busting my chops about conceit?

Which one of my thoughtful posts did you manage to completely miscomprehend to get your knickers in such a knot? What did I say to make you feel all insecure and defensive?

Stop emoting all over the place and grow up. My modelling skills suck and my creative skills suck, too. I like switching cars and making up trains, so luckily I don't need good ballast or grass or trees, because I suck at that stuff.

They're just little toy trains fer cryin' out loud...

[davekelly]

Brett,

It is a fasinating thing indeed. A favorite pastime of mine also. It is interesting to see how differently people interact online versus in person.

[bcammack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

You know, I've been sitting here a couple hours trying to figure out what it means to "be a student of human nature."

That which motivates people to act the way they do fascinates me. So I've always enjoyed observing people interacting and trying to understand the why of it all. Cultural anthropology is useful for shaping perspective in this.

[davekelly]

Space,

It was a Will Smith movie in which he plays a guy helping other guys attract women. The movie focuses around one of his clients (the guy from King Queens I think) - regular guy that is trying to meet this megarich woman and ends up at the upscale party.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Al Brown

Such a simple question...Have you paid tribute to John Allen. If so, how?

There are only two answers.
Yes, and this is how I did it.
Or,
No. PERIOD.

It took less time to build the Transcontinental Railroad in One to One scale as it has to discuss one simple question.

Al.

Cool Huh?

[Anonymous]

Such a simple question...Have you paid tribute to John Allen. If so, how?

There are only two answers.
Yes, and this is how I did it.
Or,
No. PERIOD.

It took less time to build the Transcontinental Railroad in One to One scale as it has to discuss one simple question.

Al.

[SpaceMouse]

Hitch...was that a Paul Newman?

[davekelly]

Hey Spacemouse,

Have you seen the movie "Hitch"? There's a seen where the guy is at some high class party and gets dragged into a discussion about "artsy" stuff. I died laughing.

[davekelly]

Mark,

Who do you consider to be the "greats" of model railroading?

[SpaceMouse]

You know, I've been sitting here a couple hours trying to figure out what it means to "be a student of human nature."

[waltersrails]

i agree spacemouse.

[dwRavenstar]

QUOTE: Originally posted by marknewton

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

"You don't have to be creative to have a realistic model railroad. There are techniques and you don't have to be an artist, just a technician."

I think that realism resonates with those who do not have a strong creative side. I think that creativity can be cultivated, however.

LOL! What an extraordinary conceit.

But that's okay - I often think that artistic modelling appeals to those who aren't strong on technique.

Mark.

You've successfully raised the bar regarding extraordinary conceit by implying that since you are actively and solely involved in precise recreation of a specific scene and moment you are possessing stronger technical skills than some others.

I'll drink both instant and drip brewed coffee so I'm not taking sides if ten of us were to build a cup before starting a discussion. Upon comparing methods I'm certain we'd find some who prefer cream, others black, some running on one scoop of sugar or as many as three while others would wretch at the thought of sweetener in any form. We'd share a common interest but would employ differing methods. It's a matter of taste and what satisfies each individual.

I don't feel that I have the right to dictate methods to anyone but myself and I still believe that each of us does what makes us happy in the privacy of our own home. The finished product is an expression of desire and not a yardstick to judge skills and techniques or the lack of same.

Often one attacks to keep the opponent from doing the same. Make them defensive in order to avoid the need to defend. It seems to be a display of insecurity.

dwRavenstar

[bcammack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by marknewton

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

"You don't have to be creative to have a realistic model railroad. There are techniques and you don't have to be an artist, just a technician."

I think that realism resonates with those who do not have a strong creative side. I think that creativity can be cultivated, however.

LOL! What an extraordinary conceit.

But that's okay - I often think that artistic modelling appeals to those who aren't strong on technique.

Mark.

Being a student of human nature, I just call 'em as I see 'em and that's how I see myself, frankly. Haven't an artistic bone in my body. That's why I appreciated Barrows' latest iteration of the Cat Mountain & Santa Fe when everyone else was spitting nails over it.

I think that art requires technique, personally, but it would be flawed logic to presume that because art requires technique that technicians must be artists.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

Back to John Allen -

I think one of the things that contributed to his notoriety was his photography skills. His photos of his work stood well above the model photography standards of nearly anyone else in the 40s and early 50s, making his work very memorable, whether you liked what he did or not.

Certainly, it was the combination of his modeling skills, humor, and his photography skills that attracted Varney. How convenient was that to have that all wrapped up in one package. Once Varney picked up the tab, Allen was in every issue.

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

For all you "artist" out there how much did your last layout sell for?
I would like to see correct answers when the question is ask again about selling a layout since 99% of the replies will be a layout as a rule can't be sold.Art? Not hardly.At least you can sell art...Model railroading is not nor has it ever been a art.Sadly that is more crap from the pages of MR that was sallow hook,line and sinker.

Actually you can't always sell art. For example sand sculpture done at the beach washes away. Defining art based on its saleability is both overly restrictive and irrelevant. How many of us have hung the art works of our children on the refridgerater and later preserved them with other family treasures.

From one dictionary:

# Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.
#

1. The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
2. The study of these activities.
3. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.

# High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.
# A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature.
# A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.
#

1. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building.
2. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer.

#

1. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.
2. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: “Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice” (Joyce Carol Oates).

#

1. arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks.
2. Artful contrivance; cunning.

I would say that model railroading and layout building fit several of these definitions.
[2c]
Enjoy
Paul

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dwRavenstar

"And so it's not a chair, but a representation of a chair. I agree - a work of art. You've made my argument for me. Thank you."

Ok, so it's not an industrial area with railroad access and service, but a scale representation of same - a work of art perhaps?

Nah!

Back to John Allen -

I think one of the things that contributed to his notoriety was his photograpy skills. His photos of his work stood well above the model photography standards of nearly anyone else in the 40s and early 50s, making his work very memorable, whether you liked what he did or not.

[marknewton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack

"You don't have to be creative to have a realistic model railroad. There are techniques and you don't have to be an artist, just a technician."

I think that realism resonates with those who do not have a strong creative side. I think that creativity can be cultivated, however.

LOL! What an extraordinary conceit.

But that's okay - I often think that artistic modelling appeals to those who aren't strong on technique.

Mark.

[dwRavenstar]

"And so it's not a chair, but a representation of a chair. I agree - a work of art. You've made my argument for me. Thank you."

Ok, so it's not an industrial area with railroad access and service, but a scale representation of same - a work of art perhaps?