QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon I can't speak for others, but I'm interested in model rairoads/railways wherever they're found. I may be an SP fan, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate an NSB, DB, SNCF, NZGR, NSWGR, NS, OeBB or FS based layout.
QUOTE: Originally posted by marknewton I've clearly stated where I fudge and where I don't. Where am I contradicting myself? The compromises I "blithely accept" are no different to those that the majority of modellers accept. The question is, what part of my stating I don't fudge in certain areas don't you understand? Cheers, Mark.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
QUOTE: Originally posted by roadtrp This would all be a lot easier to keep track of if those involved on each side wore different uniforms.
Five out of four people have trouble with fractions. -AnonymousThree may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. -Benjamin Franklin "You don't have to be Jeeves to love butlers, but it helps." (Followers of Levi's Real Jewish Rye will get this one) -Ed K "A potted watch never boils." -Ed Kowal If it's not fun, why do it ? -Ben & Jerry
QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin Replication and fudging are incompatable, indeed mutually exclusive. In the fudging is the art. In deciding what to fudge and what to not, you determine the shape and nature of the art. Howsoever strongly you abjure art, by your very own admission you are engaged fully in it. What I do not understand is why you insist this is not the case. You seem to be quite offended that you might, even by accident, produce art. Your obvious disdain for art as model railroading is a mystery to me. It's more than a matter of taste, apparently, for your reaction is nearly hostile. You seem to believe that art is beneath you (or any other serious person), you refuse to recognize the manifest contributions of artists to the endeavor, and you balk at according respect to anyone whose views might not coincide completely with your own. The irony is that, as a glance at your pics will demonstrate, you're a fair artist, reasonably competent in the techniques with a decent sense of how to translate reality into art. I think it a pity that you cannot (or will not) acknowledge your own strengths, rather insisting on something that not only is not, but cannot be.
QUOTE: Originally posted by marknewton QUOTE: Originally posted by rripperger QUOTE: But I'll hazard a guess that the only names you'd recognise are those from the US. Snippy generalization about Americans once again noted. Large chip on shoulder noted as well.[:)] "Snippy generalization"? No. It's a simple statement of fact. Some of the modellers I hold in high regard are locals who have no web presence and haven't been published. So I'd hazard a guess that you and Dave Kelly wouldn't recognise their names. Others are only well known in UK finesale circles, again I doubt that many here would know of them. If you regard that as snippy generalization, your skin is far too thin. Cheers, Mark.
QUOTE: Originally posted by rripperger QUOTE: But I'll hazard a guess that the only names you'd recognise are those from the US. Snippy generalization about Americans once again noted.
QUOTE: But I'll hazard a guess that the only names you'd recognise are those from the US.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
QUOTE: Originally posted by dwRavenstar Newton, Mayhaps an Aussie won't understand but KMA!
QUOTE: (snip)...I've wasted more than enough time on your foolishness.
QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin "Eschew obfuscation"? *snort*
QUOTE: You cannot change the simple fact--and it is fact, not opinion--that you cannot perfectly replicate the 1:1 world in any smaller scale. You scale down physics. You cannot scale down chemical or physical properties.
QUOTE: The method by which you chose to fake those properties is art by definition of the word
QUOTE: (not conceit, and, yes, I *do* know the definition[s] of conceit).
QUOTE: I'm sorry that you are so insecure in your modelling that you cannot accept it for what it is.
QUOTE: we differ in that I see no reason to disparage the kinds of modeling other prefer, as I don't think anyone's honest effort is "beneath me."
QUOTE: I will end my participation in this thread by quoting a poem...
QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse Yep, Mark, You're an artist. You can deny it untill you're blue in the face, but the proof is in the pictures. I know the ideas rankles you, but you have to face facts.
QUOTE: Nice work. I'm impressed.
QUOTE: Originally posted by marknewton ... QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin The method by which you chose to fake those properties is art by definition of the word Not by any defintion I've ever seen. ... Cheerio, Mark. from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=art: "art1 Audio pronunciation of "art" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärt) n. 1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature. 2. 1. The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium. 2. The study of these activities. 3. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group. 3. High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value. 4. A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature. 5. A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts. 6. 1. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building. 2. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer. 7. 1. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art. 2. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: “Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice” (Joyce Carol Oates). 8. 1. arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks. 2. Artful contrivance; cunning. 9. Printing. Illustrative material." Enjoy Paul If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way. Reply marknewton Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Sydney, Australia 1,939 posts Posted by marknewton on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:59 AM I might concede one or two of those definitions - but then, why should I settle for some on-line dictionary's definition of my hobby? Come to that, why have none of you contributing to this thread come up with your own definition of the hobby? Why are you all so unwilling to think beyond what Webster's tells you? Mark. Reply IRONROOSTER Member sinceJune 2003 From: Culpeper, Va 8,204 posts Posted by IRONROOSTER on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:39 AM Dictionary definitions are helpful so that we all mean the same thing, or at least can understand what others mean. We have discussed what model railroading is in other threads and arrived at no consensus. As with the art definition above, there are many definitions of model railroading. For me it is a hobby that at least includes building models, building a layout, and train operation. Others may leave some of those out and/or have others. Enjoy Paul If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way. Reply marknewton Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Sydney, Australia 1,939 posts Posted by marknewton on Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by edkowal It has been said that discussions degenerate into personal attacks when those doing the discussing have run out of persuasive arguments. Yes, that's been my experience. I might add that I don't wi***o persuade anyone to change their mind - I'm merely stating my opinions, and the reasons I hold them. QUOTE: marknewton's comments to the effect that many, or most of the people whose work he admires may not be familiar to most of us in the US was not a slam about US modelers. It is simply a fact that most modelers in the US do not get modeling magazines produced in Great Britain, Europe, Australia, Japan, or other non-US sources. Therefore, we would be generally unfamiliar with both the people, and the general modelling philosophy, of those individuals. I'm glad you understood that. I have no axe to grind with US modellers, or Americans in general. I simply thought that the situation in Australia probably also applies in the US. Here, many talented modellers are not published, and are unknown except among their friends. QUOTE: What I have concluded, from my limited reading of British periodicals, is that Mark is following a style of layout that is overwhelmingly followed by British modellers. They try to portray, with as few compromises as possible, an actual prototypical location. Therefore, their layouts differ markedly from what is attempted here in the US. British layouts are frequently a portrayal of a single station, with entry and exit tracks to "fiddle yards" of various types of design. Yes, that's exactly what I'm interested in! I thought perhaps this style of modelling might be familiar to US modellers who had read the articles and books by Iain Rice, published by Kalmbach. I realise now that I was being a bit optimistic!. QUOTE: One result of this type of emphasis is frequently, not always, increased technical standards with regard to trackwork and scenery work. Yes, that's one of the things that appeals to me with this style of modelling. By limiting the size of the layout to something manageable, I've found it fairly easy to achieve a much higher standard of detail and fini***han I might otherwise have achieved on a larger, less-focussed layout. QUOTE: It's very informative to get hold of one or more copies of Railway Modeller, for instance, one of the main British publications. One of the photos that had me looking twice to confirm that the photo was indeed of a model, not full scale, was on the cover of the November 2005 issue of this magazine. A layout called Tapley, by Colin Chisem. If you've enjoyed RM, you might well also find another British magazine interesting. It's the "Model Railway Journal", produced by by Wild Swan Publications. Its focus is on finescale modelling of mainly British prototype. Each issue is an absolute gem, as MRJ consistently features modelling of the highest quality. Even though I'm not specifically interested in UK railways, the techniques and methods of these modellers are first-rate, and very inspiring. QUOTE: Lastly, it is possible for someone to have a valid opinion without also having built a model railroad. I've made this point myself on a number of occasions. I don't usually respond to anyone who feels I should post photos of my work to justify having an opinion. But when they adopt a snide, self-righteous attitude like DWRavenstar did, it's hard to resist posting a few images just to prove them wrong. What I've always found interesting is that the people who have this attitude are almostnever willing to post photos of their own modelling in return. I reckon that says a lot about them. At any rate, I'm glad that there's a few people on this forum with whom I can have a sensible discussion about the "philosophy" of modelling. All the best, Mark. Reply marknewton Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Sydney, Australia 1,939 posts Posted by marknewton on Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:46 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER Dictionary definitions are helpful so that we all mean the same thing, or at least can understand what others mean. Agreed, but in this thread they're being quoted as if they are the last word on what our hobby is. Maybe it's time we defined our hobby for ourselves? Cheers, Mark. Reply edkowal Member sinceOctober 2003 From: Buffalo NY USA 452 posts Posted by edkowal on Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:21 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin The method by which you chose to fake those properties is art by definition of the word QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=art: "art1 Audio pronunciation of "art" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärt) n. 6. 1. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building. 2. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer. 7. 1. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art. 2. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: “Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice” (Joyce Carol Oates). I don't like to engage in a ridiculous "battle of the definitions," but before you folks get all self-congratulatory, you might want to look up the definition of the word "craft" in those dictionaries of yours. All of subdefinition 6, and at least the first part of subdefinition 7, are also subsumed in the commonly understood definition of the word "craft." I, too, can quote a dictionary, complete with Internet URL, if you insist, but I'm sure you'll be able to find it. What seems to be missing from this interchange is a recognition of how dictionaries are produced. Dictionaries are produced from examples of the use of a word. A panel of sages does not meet to "decide" what the word's definition is. Mark chooses to see himself as a craftsman, in order, I presume, to emphasize the importance of technical skill in producing a good model railroad. And as he has confirmed, he follows a different interest within the hobby. Chip, Palallin, and Paul, among others, choose to emphasize the more esoteric aspects of model railroading, the more emotional aspect, if you will. Well, fine. But you still have to be good craftsman in order to succeed as an artist. It's only been in the late Twentieth Century and later, that to be an artist, it's sufficient to simply make the declaration: "I am an artist." Before that lamentable situation arose, you had to actually have talent. Remember, if what you produce is not recognizable as a railroad, then you are probably not succeeding in communicating your more esoteric take on the relationship of railroads to the world, or whatever it is you're attempting to communicate. (I'm exaggerating here for emphasis, and am not trying to criticize anyone's efforts.) And no matter what you call yourself, it doesn't affect your skills. They're either advanced, or they're not. No amount of verbal gymnastics will change your skills. Only practice does that. -Ed Five out of four people have trouble with fractions. -AnonymousThree may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. -Benjamin Franklin "You don't have to be Jeeves to love butlers, but it helps." (Followers of Levi's Real Jewish Rye will get this one) -Ed K "A potted watch never boils." -Ed Kowal If it's not fun, why do it ? -Ben & Jerry Reply IRONROOSTER Member sinceJune 2003 From: Culpeper, Va 8,204 posts Posted by IRONROOSTER on Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:22 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by edkowal ... But you still have to be good craftsman in order to succeed as an artist. It's only been in the late Twentieth Century and later, that to be an artist, it's sufficient to simply make the declaration: "I am an artist." Before that lamentable situation arose, you had to actually have talent. Remember, if what you produce is not recognizable as a railroad, then you are probably not succeeding in communicating your more esoteric take on the relationship of railroads to the world, or whatever it is you're attempting to communicate. (I'm exaggerating here for emphasis, and am not trying to criticize anyone's efforts.) And no matter what you call yourself, it doesn't affect your skills. They're either advanced, or they're not. No amount of verbal gymnastics will change your skills. Only practice does that. -Ed It is certainly not my intention to denigrate the craft skills involved in model railroading. Just as the painter develops skills so too does the model railroader. One of the many choices in model railroading is where on the painter to photographer continuum you wi***o be. That is how close to exactness do you wi***o be. I'm not advocating or excusing sloppy model building where a boxcar only bears a vague resemblence to the real thing and the paint job looks like you used a stick. Rather your choice of finishing - is it clean as opposed to dirty. Your level of detail - is all the brake piping included or just the cylinders. Your right of way - is it littered with weeds or neat and tidy. And so forth. But just as photography is recognized as an art form so too is model railroading. What makes a great photograph. It's not just the technical capabilities of the camera, the film, and the developer; it's also the choice of subject matter, the composition of the picture, the time of day, the relationship to the sun or other light source. A great model railroad is not just your capability to copy a series of scenes. It is also your choice of scene, how you used selective compression, the season, the details you included and the ones you omitted. You can create your own scenes, include the elements you want, arrange it the way you want. This is the painter end. You can also be somewhere in between. To do these things well you need craft skills. To have it turn out well you need artistic skills. As always this my [2c] your mileage may differ. Enjoy Paul If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way. Reply marknewton Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Sydney, Australia 1,939 posts Posted by marknewton on Friday, January 20, 2006 4:52 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by edkowal I don't like to engage in a ridiculous "battle of the definitions," but before you folks get all self-congratulatory, you might want to look up the definition of the word "craft" in those dictionaries of yours... I've always thought that people who quote dictionaries in this fashion are short on sustainable argument. QUOTE: Mark chooses to see himself as a craftsman, in order, I presume, to emphasize the importance of technical skill in producing a good model railroad. Yes Ed, that's correct. It's the technical aspect of model railroading that I think distinguishes and separates it from merely being art. QUOTE: Chip, Palallin, and Paul, among others, choose to emphasize the more esoteric aspects of model railroading, the more emotional aspect, if you will. Well, fine. But you still have to be good craftsman in order to succeed as an artist. It's only been in the late Twentieth Century and later, that to be an artist, it's sufficient to simply make the declaration: "I am an artist." Before that lamentable situation arose, you had to actually have talent. Perhaps that is why the aforementioned posters are hostile to my opinion that model railroading is a craft, and not art? Because to be recognised as a craftsman, it is not enough to simply declare that you are one - you need a body of work to support your claim... QUOTE: And no matter what you call yourself, it doesn't affect your skills. They're either advanced, or they're not. No amount of verbal gymnastics will change your skills. Only practice does that. Absolutely! All the best, Mark. Reply Pruitt Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Wyoming, where men are men, and sheep are nervous! 3,392 posts Posted by Pruitt on Friday, January 20, 2006 5:07 AM Model Railroading is no more art than is the "sculpture" I leave in the commode every morning, and sticking one's nose in the stratosphere and proclaiming otherwise doesn't make it so. It can make one look like a pompous, somewhat delusional fool, however. The title of MR's annual calendar notwithstanding, model railroading is simply a hobby with some artistic elements. But tuning up a electrically-driven "steam" locomotive does not fall into the same category as painting The Last Supper or sculpting the Venus de Milo. It makes one an artisan, not an artist. This pretentious "Je suis artiste" attitude gets a little thick at times. Should be something more like "Je suis escroc" in my opinion. (pardon me if the French isn't exactly correct - you get the idea). Mark P. Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton Reply bcammack Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 403 posts Posted by bcammack on Friday, January 20, 2006 8:14 AM Spoken like a true Engineer. Cold, empirical, rational, and probably wrong. [:)] Art is in the eye of the beholder. I don't recall hearing that you were the final arbiter of such matters. Did I miss a memo or something? I find your reference to pomposity to be rather ironic... Regards, Brett C. Cammack Holly Hill, FL Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 20, 2006 8:48 AM This thread is definately getting old cant we just let it die a slow death. Steve Reply Edit Pruitt Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Wyoming, where men are men, and sheep are nervous! 3,392 posts Posted by Pruitt on Friday, January 20, 2006 10:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack Spoken like a true Engineer. Cold, empirical, rational, and probably wrong. [:)] Art is in the eye of the beholder. I don't recall hearing that you were the final arbiter of such matters. Did I miss a memo or something? I find your reference to pomposity to be rather ironic... [:o)] Mark P. Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton Reply edkowal Member sinceOctober 2003 From: Buffalo NY USA 452 posts Posted by edkowal on Friday, January 20, 2006 11:45 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack ... Did I miss a memo or something? Yeah, that memo should have been received last Tuesday. I'd recheck my IN box, if I were you. You wouldn't want to miss any others. [:o)] -Ed Five out of four people have trouble with fractions. -AnonymousThree may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. -Benjamin Franklin "You don't have to be Jeeves to love butlers, but it helps." (Followers of Levi's Real Jewish Rye will get this one) -Ed K "A potted watch never boils." -Ed Kowal If it's not fun, why do it ? -Ben & Jerry Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 21, 2006 4:14 AM To each their own interpretation of realism. Don't knock what others see from the world around them. It will be different than yours and mine but that's what makes it interesting and in the end acceptatable. (much like your opinion) NOT WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!! Thus peace on earth. Reply Edit marknewton Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Sydney, Australia 1,939 posts Posted by marknewton on Saturday, January 21, 2006 7:12 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack Spoken like a true Engineer. Cold, empirical, rational, and probably wrong. [:)] Art is in the eye of the beholder. I don't recall hearing that you were the final arbiter of such matters. Did I miss a memo or something? I find your reference to pomposity to be rather ironic... You do a nice line in double standards, bcammack. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 29, 2006 8:45 PM well, today was my first day at this "forum" and my initiation was reading all 24 pages of this topic. obviously i had to take a few breaks, but i did get through it with the following observations: not too many folks admitted borrowing a vignette from John Allen's work. the forum reply form would be well served with the addition of "spellcheck". i did find the second "the". "fun" seems to be very subjective. the woody is out of focus. i am still debating if that is art or just bad photography: i usually use "autocorrect" [see second observation above]. i always thought "obtuse" meant greater than 90 degrees. it was refreshing to read multiparagraph responses and thought out opinions. some of the "opinions" bordered on condescending and almost attacking. i think by definition an opinion cannot be wrong. apparently "cheers" means _ _ _ _ - off in australian. i will remember this next time i get a traffic ticket and extend this salutation to the offending officer. Eva Mendes has a great figure and beautiful face. there is no moderator on this forum. "Model Railroading Is Fun!" Reply Edit SpaceMouse Member sinceDecember 2004 From: Rimrock, Arizona 11,251 posts Posted by SpaceMouse on Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:22 PM jayimok, YOu don't need to read any of the the others, you know everyone on here by now. :D Chip Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos. Reply Pruitt Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Wyoming, where men are men, and sheep are nervous! 3,392 posts Posted by Pruitt on Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:26 PM Bit it's still not art!! [:D][:o)] Mark P. Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton Reply « First«11121314151617 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! 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QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin The method by which you chose to fake those properties is art by definition of the word Not by any defintion I've ever seen. ... Cheerio, Mark.
The method by which you chose to fake those properties is art by definition of the word
QUOTE: Originally posted by edkowal It has been said that discussions degenerate into personal attacks when those doing the discussing have run out of persuasive arguments.
QUOTE: marknewton's comments to the effect that many, or most of the people whose work he admires may not be familiar to most of us in the US was not a slam about US modelers. It is simply a fact that most modelers in the US do not get modeling magazines produced in Great Britain, Europe, Australia, Japan, or other non-US sources. Therefore, we would be generally unfamiliar with both the people, and the general modelling philosophy, of those individuals.
QUOTE: What I have concluded, from my limited reading of British periodicals, is that Mark is following a style of layout that is overwhelmingly followed by British modellers. They try to portray, with as few compromises as possible, an actual prototypical location. Therefore, their layouts differ markedly from what is attempted here in the US. British layouts are frequently a portrayal of a single station, with entry and exit tracks to "fiddle yards" of various types of design.
QUOTE: One result of this type of emphasis is frequently, not always, increased technical standards with regard to trackwork and scenery work.
QUOTE: It's very informative to get hold of one or more copies of Railway Modeller, for instance, one of the main British publications. One of the photos that had me looking twice to confirm that the photo was indeed of a model, not full scale, was on the cover of the November 2005 issue of this magazine. A layout called Tapley, by Colin Chisem.
QUOTE: Lastly, it is possible for someone to have a valid opinion without also having built a model railroad.
QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER Dictionary definitions are helpful so that we all mean the same thing, or at least can understand what others mean.
QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin The method by which you chose to fake those properties is art by definition of the word
QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=art: "art1 Audio pronunciation of "art" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärt) n. 6. 1. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building. 2. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer. 7. 1. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art. 2. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: “Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice” (Joyce Carol Oates).
QUOTE: Originally posted by edkowal ... But you still have to be good craftsman in order to succeed as an artist. It's only been in the late Twentieth Century and later, that to be an artist, it's sufficient to simply make the declaration: "I am an artist." Before that lamentable situation arose, you had to actually have talent. Remember, if what you produce is not recognizable as a railroad, then you are probably not succeeding in communicating your more esoteric take on the relationship of railroads to the world, or whatever it is you're attempting to communicate. (I'm exaggerating here for emphasis, and am not trying to criticize anyone's efforts.) And no matter what you call yourself, it doesn't affect your skills. They're either advanced, or they're not. No amount of verbal gymnastics will change your skills. Only practice does that. -Ed
QUOTE: Originally posted by edkowal I don't like to engage in a ridiculous "battle of the definitions," but before you folks get all self-congratulatory, you might want to look up the definition of the word "craft" in those dictionaries of yours...
QUOTE: Mark chooses to see himself as a craftsman, in order, I presume, to emphasize the importance of technical skill in producing a good model railroad.
QUOTE: Chip, Palallin, and Paul, among others, choose to emphasize the more esoteric aspects of model railroading, the more emotional aspect, if you will. Well, fine. But you still have to be good craftsman in order to succeed as an artist. It's only been in the late Twentieth Century and later, that to be an artist, it's sufficient to simply make the declaration: "I am an artist." Before that lamentable situation arose, you had to actually have talent.
QUOTE: And no matter what you call yourself, it doesn't affect your skills. They're either advanced, or they're not. No amount of verbal gymnastics will change your skills. Only practice does that.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack Spoken like a true Engineer. Cold, empirical, rational, and probably wrong. [:)] Art is in the eye of the beholder. I don't recall hearing that you were the final arbiter of such matters. Did I miss a memo or something? I find your reference to pomposity to be rather ironic...
QUOTE: Originally posted by bcammack ... Did I miss a memo or something?