Are modellers be priced out the hobby?

[Anonymous]

I had an interesting chat with a gent a couple of days ago. He said, that his friends either stopped buying trains completely or got out the hobby because the cost were increasing too fast. Has anyone else heard this? And if so why aren't the companies responding to this?

Roger

[bobwrght]

It all has to do with supply and demand. There are still alot of deals on ebay and trainworld if you are willing to wait or do the research. When dealers and distributers have overstock to move the price will come down. The new release prices look to keep going up but i can wait and see. Look at the price of new home electronics and toys. If you have to have the latest and greatest you are going to pay.

I have several P2K engines between 25.00 and 60.00 each including SD60m,Sd50. I also have BLI' s GG-1,Hudson and M1a, with sound for under 130.00 each.
The Atlas and Kato engines are always in demand and bring higher prices so i only have a few. I am not sure if this is because of there quality or limited runs. Athearn blue box ,Bachmann and IHC Steam are great for those on a budget.

Time will tell if inventory sells at high price or not.

Bob

[ICRR1964]

I think there is allot of price competing going on, we have the electonics as far as sound and DCC. with allot of manufacrures out there with prices going from cheap to expensive. The electronics part of MR, I think is going to come down some over the next few years with more decoders and sound equipment coming out. Allot of the high dollar loco's have fallen in price do to the sales falling in the LHS and mail order. I cannot see paying $300 to $400 for one loco that is plastic when its a new release or design. A year later or two you will start to see it for $150 dollars or less.

As far as the common person, there are some high dollar items out there that look like mortgage payments for one item, I think manuctures are going to see that over pricing is going to hurt them, so they are going to reduce cost to MR for the common man.

[Cox 47]

I think a lot of us on retirement and fixed income have been priced out of the market.You talk about 25.00 locos I know my self thats out of my budjet and I suspect I am not alone...I enjoy the hobby with junk box refugees locos and mostly cast off rolling stock and scratch build structures....But hey that has a good side to it thats how most of the old short lines made it too...Cox 47

[Eriediamond]

I have several thoughts on this. First I don't think modelers are being priced out of the hobby so much as some of us have less "hobby" money then we did before. Also, lets face it, we are demanding more and more compared to years ago and not so many at that. Not to beat a dead horse here, but some of the older people can remember back when just about anything we wanted was either scratch built or built from a kit. Now we aren't satisfied in less that loco we want comes ready to run with all the bells and whistles working and even then some complain about haveing to do a little tweaking here and there. Not that its bad, but we have somewhat driven the prices up ourselves. Also, I think we have fewer young people interested in trains compared to years ago. Younger people now have video games, computor games and such to keep them busy whereas in my youth it was model airplanes and electric trains. I guess what I'm saying here is lets not be to quick to lay all the blame on the manufacturers, they are producing what sells, as it should be. Thanks, Ken

[jecorbett]

Companies are not out to drive people out of the market. It wouldn't make sense in the long run. They are in business to make money. Like any other commodity, they will charge what the marketplace will bear. They understand that the more they charge the less they will sell. They also understand that the less they charge, the less their profit margin so they try to find the balance point that will yield them the most profit. The market place is self regulating if given a chance. If you think a company is gouging you, don't buy their product. It's that simple.

[WickhamMan]

I think that $25 for a loco is a ridiculously low price today. When I ran crappy Tyco trains as a kid some 30 years ago, the hobby was much more expensive than today. Adjusted for inflation (using the CPI) a $25 loco in 2005 cost just $6.81 in 1975. I know I paid way more than $7 for an engine back then. Beyond quality, they also didn't have DCC or sound available. Even a sound equipped DCC RTR BLI Hudson from Trainworld at $130 only costs 35.39 in 1975 dollars.

This hobby is a steal compared to my other hobby...golf.

[Anonymous]

Whatever the prices in the hobby, there will always be some who either cannot afford it or don't wi***o spend much on it. It is the same in any hobby or passtime. Has anyone priced an ATV, a snowmobile, a set of golf clubs? They too don't come cheap, but one can participate in our hobby without spending enormous sums - you do not need to have all of the latest and greatest new models all of the time! You can spend as much or as little as you want to. No one forces anyone to shell out $150-300 for the latest model with sound and DCC. Buy used Athearn blue box engines at local train shows for $25.00 or so.

If you are really interested in model railroading, there is always a way.

Bob Boudreau

[Anonymous]

I don't think modelers are being priced out of the hobby. But they are definatly being "Ready to Runed" out of the hobby.

Current Walthers Catalong. Almost Every Locomotive, half the freight cars and 1/3 the building kits were Simply open the box and set on the layout. Next thing you know pre made Model Rairlaod Modules where all you have to do is bolt them together will be sold will become main stream. By then we will have to stop calling it model rairlaoding and start calling it miniature railroading because no one will be left who actually knows how to build a model.

James.

[Anonymous]

A building that you just open and set on the layout. That's just not right!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

A building that you just open and set on the layout. That's just not right!

Walthers, Bachmann, IHC and Model Power all have extensive lines of built up structures.

And Woodland Scenics just announced they are releasing a line.

James

[Anonymous]

I got a spectrum doodlebug today for only 20$ they haad otghers like Dash8s for 20 as well
I dont think we're being [priced out

[bwftex]

If a guy has been in the hobby he should already have some trains and a few skills so how does he get priced out? Unless of course one defines model railroading as always buying new stuff or having to have everything right now. Cox 47 may not be buying new stuff but he didn’t let that stop him from model railroading. The hobby is not all that expensive unless you make it that way. Bruce

[warhammerdriver]

I think newcomers to the hobby find the inital investment rather steep. Once you've got your system up and running, I would think the cost would come down dramatically.

For example, if I had nothing by way of track, structures or rolling stock accumulated over the years, I could easily see my 13' layout costing $1k or more just to run trains, never mind scenery.

So my answer would be no, existing modellers aren't. Rookies to the hobby, maybe.

[jecorbett]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

A building that you just open and set on the layout. That's just not right!

Walthers, Bachmann, IHC and Model Power all have extensive lines of built up structures.

And Woodland Scenics just announced they are releasing a line.

James

Add Atlas to the list of companies selling prebuilt structures. A lot of their long popular kits are now available presassembled. I don't have a problem with this because it allows people without a lot of time to be able to create a presentable layout. My problem is when these companies discontinue the kit form of the structure. I like to paint and weather my structures and that is very difficult to do well after the structure is assembled.
Woodland Scenics is already out with their prebuilt structures. I have seen them in my LHS at least a month ago. They are very good looking but very pricey.

[Anonymous]

After being out of the hobby for almost 15 years, I am seeing alot less local hobby shops, and even fewer shops offering a discount. I know what the cost of the item is, I used to work at a Hobby store. Most suppliers supply them at 40% off list, plus offer a discount if the bill is paid before a certian date,( ie: 2%/10 days, net/30). I have always been in the beleif that making a small margin on large number of items is better than making a higher margin on fewer items. And as a buyer, the more product they move the better thier discount. The store owners need to get back into growing the hobby, offering a product at a discount, because when the list price getts to high for the new people getting into the hobby, they will not have a business to run.
The hobby is getting more ready to run, because more people have less time for "modeling" the trains, and want more time to run trains. I do not agree with this, and look for the bargins at the shows, and on ebay. Good hunting

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jecorbett
Add Atlas to the list of companies selling prebuilt structures.

Thank you. I forgot about them. I usually think of Atlas being a track and loco company. I forgot about their building line.

James

[Anonymous]

You Can always Boy cot lol...... im only kidding!!

[rolleiman]

Depends on what you want.. I think some things are getting a little pricey, yes.. but you can still spend as little as you wish.. It just depends on whether or not you are a Modeler or someone who just likes to operate trains.

The difference is (before I get into another e-fight), the modeler has no problem scratch building or heavily modifying an existing model to suit the needs or interests.. He doesn't wait and hope that walthers, atlas, kato, athearn, fill in the rest of them here, to come out with a specific model and frankly doesn't care if they Ever do. This person may more appropriately be called a model builder. From what I've seen on this forum, this person is becoming a rare breed but they are still out there.

The one who just likes to operate trains isn't always interested in building models.. In some cases, the only Models that exist are the trains as well as the modeling of operations. He is perfectly happy to pay $30 for an RTR hopper and plop it on the layout as is. Simply because he isn't interested in Building the model and let's be honest.. The one doing that, with respect to that RTR hopper, hasn't Modeled Anything. He simply made a purchase. This person also sometimes thinks his Time is worth money even though if he weren't model railroading, he wouldn't be earning any $$ with the time.

I know there are lots of people whose interests cover both arenas. I think the better question to ask is "Are you pricing Yourself out of the hobby?" Remember, we Don't have to buy the stuff. It simply comes down to What do you want and what are you willing to pay for it??

my [2c]

Jeff

[edkowal]

This isn't the first time this idea has been broached on this forum. Nor will it be the last time.

But I do seem to remember that the folks that are lamenting that "...prices are too high...", or that "...high prices are driving the modelers out of the hobby..." are the same individuals who a week or two before posted that "...I just sniped x items on e-Bay, boy did I get a bargain..." and "...my basement has so many unbuilt kits I could open a hobby store..." and "...oh yeah, me too, I own 62 locomotives, but I've got a 10 foot by 15 foot layout..."

Maybe these two phenomena are related?

-Ed

[IRONROOSTER]

I think there are two forces at work here. One I think is that for many people their incomes are being stretched by increased health care costs (insurance and/or out of pocket), increased housing costs (even if you own your home, increased value means increased taxes and insurance), etc. In the end it's less money for the hobby.

The other force at work is more subtle. Many higher cost items have become part of the market place. While many of these are RTR, there are some high priced kits in HO. This has the effect of discouraging some people who can't afford them from being in the hobby. Athearn. MDC, and other low cost lines are no longer good enough in comparison.

One way lower costs is to return to scratchbuilding. Develop skills in making parts and models from raw materials. Go to a train show and buy some really old copies of MR that have articles on scratchbuilding.

Enjoy
Paul

[BRAKIE]

I use to rant about the high costs of the hobby till I realize I was being hypocritical about it [:0][B)].[:(][8] How? Simply put I realized that I am buying at the best discount I can find and still buying the locomotives and cars in the road names I want without paying the full robber baron MSRP! So,I also realized I beat the manufacturers at their own game by buying at discount from on line.So,it is my thoughts that price savvy modelers can still buy the engines they want without paying full MSRP and still stay within their limited hobby budget.[:D]
.

[CNJ831]

There are several points consistantly being missed in this and most other discussions of this sort.

The statement is repeatedly made that, although many more high-end items are being offered currently and low-end ones are seen to an ever lesser degree, you can get along in the hobby perfectly well by scratchbuilding or carefully buying of items on eBay or at special discounts. What is over looked here, especially by those realtively new to the hobby, is that the past ten years is the very first time in the hobby's entire history that this situation has become a mainstream necessity. At the same time, non-kits, basic low-end items, and scratchbuilding, is slowly disappearing.

Where the manufacturers are concerned, this is really not from lack of customers but because inexpensive items are generally not bought in a frenzy, like that seen associated with most high-end items. If an item takes many months, instead of days or weeks, to sell out the manufacturers will either tend to avoid it altogether or do minimal runs years appart. The entire manufacturing structure within our hobby has changed in recent years. The manufacturers have learned that they can quickly sell out of a very much reduced line of high priced items, directed at folks with deep pockets and turning a respectible, quick profit. Unlike during all the decades that have gone before, most of these makers have little concern for the hobby's long term future as long as they can sell a limited number of products at a good profit. Not being owned or run by hobby enthusiasts, as they were in the past, most of their corporate boards would be just as happy to sell electric shavers as model trains. This approach, more than anything else today, is what is presently stifling the hobby.

Add to the above the factor that the relatively small number of individuals entering the hobby today tend to have much less time and fewer modeling skills, drawing them to high-end, RTR, items - just the sort of folks most major manufacturers are aiming at - and you will begin to realize why this hobby's longterm future is very much in question because of the current situation.

CNJ831

[cnw4001]

I have two thoughts on this.

First things today are more expensive than in the past but then adjusted for inflation some of the pricing is not so far out of line. That doesn't make it any less costly in today's dollars but simply it is a case of stuff costing a lot. Someone else pointed out that it is not in sellers interest to price their product to a point where nobody buys those products.

I hear this complaint in other hobbies and that brings my second point. Hobby spending is discretionary. You spend what you can afford and have to leave the rest for someone else. Would I like to purchase top of the line evrything? Yes, but I buy what I can afford and enjoy that.

[oleirish]

Throught I would put my 2cents worth here!I'am retired and on fixed income,Some things are out of my reach like Sound ! I would like to have an sound locomotive,but think the price is to high on them at the present.I'am sure they will come down some in the future.I have an DCC systeam but the decoders are still to high for 20 locomotives,maybe they will come down some allso,Even if I were still working I would not buy an engine for $300 t0 400 dollors ,way to much.Just in the past few years the price has doubbled on things, Building kits are as high as $200 dollors in some cases,Walthers conerstone kits are out rageious,an compleate SAW MILL ( three parts)IS RIGHT AT $100.00 after you buy all the parts.Yes the price is gone way up,and the companies know this,but as long as people pay the high price things will not change but in some cases go higher.

JIM

[wctransfer]

Well, lemme put my 2 cents in. Im 13, and the only time i can buy a nice engine ( Kato, Proto, RTR Athearns) is when i mow the lawn about 9 or 10 times. I have a big lawn. So i maybe , unless my gram gives me money, buy one locomotive a summer. Christmas is different. My mom buys the train stuff, my uncle Den ( Dispatcher for the CP ) gives me a hobby store gift card, and the other uncles give me money. Its kinda hard for me to get what i want with the money, but i feel that that one kato i just need to have is worth it, if it wasnt than i wouldnt buy it. I model the SOO Line, Wisconsin Central, and the CNW, so the WC units are always my priority to buy. Why, because they dont have that many WC models out there. The prices are getting steep, but i dont feel like i need to buy every single nice engine out there. I have a nice fleet of the WC units, i want more but ill get one by one. I want more SOO and CNW stuff, so those come after the WC. It all depends on what you think about one engine. Many other there want a HUGE fleet. Sure i would too but think about what you REALLY want, instead of breaking the bank, buy one every once in a while. i dont know if this long post made that much sense but here. Buy the stuff you want yes, but remember you dont need a million of them to have a fantastic layout. I buy one at a time, and am happy, i dont feel like i need a pair of every engine to feel good about the investment.

alec

[Anonymous]

Prices on everything have gone up.why should a hobby be cheaper? Hobbyist's or should I say compulsive buyers within the hobby may price themselves out of the hobby,but way backin the 70's,my wages were under $100 a week and prices back then seemed high.Brass and craftsman building kits ran more back then too.Maybe the gotta have it types feel the pinch more, but we always buy what we can afford,whether it's rtr or not. Some makers,Kadee and Atlas,don't offer kits in their freight car line,and if someone made a building that I liked ,rtr, I'd buy it. I like kitbashing but someday someone might have just what I need, so to each his own, are prices higher,yes, but this hobby's never been cheap.

[ShaunCN]

well that fact is, no new or younger modelrs will be able to get into the hobby if prices keep going up.

[Anonymous]

The threshold of "gotta haves" has risen to price many out of the hobby. For the new comer entry price of DCC and a loco and some cars and track to run them on is out of sight. With every "newbie" needing DCC because of the "mantra" here and elsewhere raises the bar to enter the hobby into the $300 plus area. The question then is how many hours, days, weeks, months does it take to accumulate those funds, or pay off the bill to "own" them.
Those on a fixed income or "kids" are at a disadvantage immediately.
As long as the industry can make and sell RTR at a profit, and we don't support the lower cost kits to remain a profitable market, the more we will be priced out of the hobby. Luckily the changes in technology may make last years electronics, locomotives, rolling stock, structures and other materials more attractively priced for those who don't need the latest bell and whistle to keep up with the Jones.
[2c]
Will

[Anonymous]

i'm brand new to the hobby-prices are high-but then i have no idea what to compare to.its hard-i'm really attracted to buying a set,due to the price.i've been warned about it by some.oh well,i guess if it was cheap it wouldn't be as exciting to get that new train....
by the way-hey everyone!
adam hoyt