Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer rather than just bicker back and forth about why there are few plastic RTR items available for pre-WW1 railroads , how about we share the resources we already have . i'll start .... interesting manufacturers (not much plastic here , and no RTR) . . . . http://home.sprynet.com/~bcmodels/ . . . .
QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman andrechapelon wrote: "How is it a self-fulfilling prophecy? You seem to believe in the "if you build it, they will come" school of manufacturing." No, but Bachmann (et al) have produced entire lines of late 1800's early 1900's engines in G gauge and On30. If there is enough interest to support an entirely new gauge /scale combination, there is enough interest to support a couple cars in HO standard. As for the self fulfilling prophecy, companies don't offer a "full" line, so people can't easily start a railroad off the shelf. So they make another choice. As a result sales of what is offered lags. Then manufacturers say sales are bad and don't want to offer a full line. "Anyone alive who might remember that era is at or above the century mark in age." That is a very weak arguement. How many modelers model something other than what they've actually seen (other than in books and maybe a video)? If that was a valid arguement then why are there hundreds of people modeling US roads in Europe when they have never set foot in the US? How many modelers model the ATSF or SP or UP on the east coast and have never been west of Pittsburgh? It is very common to model entirely from written and photo documentation. There are niche markets, actually its getting more to the point that many new realeases are themselves niche models (for example the the C&O 2-6-6-4 and the UP Big Boy). So why not "my " niche? Dave H.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman IHC produced a camelback 2-6-0 to fit their SP 2-6-0 chassis. Its a model of a O&W engine. Unfortunately cameback 2-6-0's are rare. So they chose to pick an small niche wheel arrangement (2-6-0) of a small niche type engine (camelback) based on a very small niche railroad (O&W). What is maddening about this whole thing is they also produce a 4-4-0 chassis which is interchangeable with the 2-6-0 chassis. If they would have offered a 4-4-0 camelback they would have had a wheel arrangement and type of engine that was used by dozens and dozens of railroads, as many railroads had 4-4-0 camelbacks. I even wrote to them explaining what could be done. How much of a business case does it require to snap an already tooled, stock shell on an already tooled, stock chassis and come up with an entirely new NEVER BEFORE OFFERED engine? Dave H.
QUOTE: Originally posted by palallin Another New Haven 4-4-0 engine (class A-1) was a "standard" Alco design, and looked almost identical to a Big Four 4-4-0 (it's in "New Haven Power" by Jack Swanberg). But even tho' both of these locos look almost like a copy of each other, crosshead is completely different, the valve dome is different, the air tank is mounted different, the piping runs are different, etc. How would a manufacturer do this? It's one thing to change tender trucks and swap out domes, but how do you change the valve gear from model to model? Or wheel diameter? Or driver spacing?
QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul3 If they tried to simply make a 4-4-0 and pawn it off on the public, it'd flop. One road's 4-4-0's were not, in general, just like anyone else's 4-4-0 (unlike F-units). Take the Boston & Providence RR. They were famous for building inside-connected steam engines some 20 years after they fell out of favor (one of which exists today in St. Louis). Another New Haven 4-4-0 engine (class A-1) was a "standard" Alco design, and looked almost identical to a Big Four 4-4-0 (it's in "New Haven Power" by Jack Swanberg). But even tho' both of these locos look almost like a copy of each other, crosshead is completely different, the valve dome is different, the air tank is mounted different, the piping runs are different, etc. How would a manufacturer do this? It's one thing to change tender trucks and swap out domes, but how do you change the valve gear from model to model? Or wheel diameter? Or driver spacing?
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern Just received in the mail today a flyer from B.T.S., and it includes three resin kits for the United States Military Railroad from the 1860's. One boxcar, two different flat cars. ww.btsrr.com Bob Boudreau
QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon not to mention Don Ball's 1899 era Moraga Springs Northern - http://home.jps.net/~dlball/msn/ ).
QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman Why have manufacturers abandoned anybody modeling before WW1?
QUOTE: How many manufacturers make a reasonable quality (at least as good as an Accurail or Athearn) pre WW1 car in R-T-R or plastic kit?
QUOTE: Westerfield and LaBelle offer craftsman kits that can be used for post 1900 layout.
QUOTE: How many manufactures make a good running 1890-1910 era engine? One. The IHC NYO&W camelback 2-6-0
QUOTE: As far as I can tell, a switch engine from any time prior to WW1 (other than the out of production Mantua camelbacks) has never been made. Never.
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman Instead we have models of 4-6-6-4's, streamlined 4-8-4's, etc. All of which were only every used on maybe 5% of the US railroad system by a handfull of railroads.... I think that the manufacturers are missing a huge opportunity here. Dave H.
QUOTE: Why have manufacturers abandoned anybody modeling before WW1? It seems unless you are narrow gauge, the model railroad suppliers think railroads were invented in 1945. The first 75 years of railroad history is completely ignored.
QUOTE: How many manufacturers make a reasonable quality (at least as good as an Accurail or Athearn) pre WW1 car in R-T-R or plastic kit? One, MDC and then only 2 or 3 body styles. Westerfield and LaBelle offer craftsman kits that can be used for post 1900 layout.
QUOTE: How many manufactures make a good running 1890-1910 era engine? One. The IHC NYO&W camelback 2-6-0, about as obscure a choice for an engine as can be had.
QUOTE: Think about it. F units were only in production from 1939 to about 1959. 20 years. And we have literally dozens upon dozens of variations of F units from every concievable manufacturer. Yet an entire nation's production for 75 years is more or less ignored. We have at least 5 versions of USRA 2-8-2's, two or three versions of USRA 4-6-2's.
QUOTE: Only one manufacturer makes a decent 2-8-0 and that, along with the 4-4-0, were the most common engines ever built.
QUOTE: Instead we have models of 4-6-6-4's, streamlined 4-8-4's, etc. All of which were only every used on maybe 5% of the US railroad system by a handfull of railroads. The entire, all time production of those engines probably wouldn't equal one month's production of 4-4-0's, 4-6-0's and 2-8-0's in late 1800's.
QUOTE: Its like as if model airplane manufacturers decided that they would just never make another biplane or ship model makers decided that they would never make another sailing ship.
QUOTE: The sad thing is it offeres so many advantages. Cars and locomotives were smaller (30, 34 and 36 ft were most common), trains were shorter (a 40 car train was huge) and speed were slower (25 mph was tops for a freight in most places, passenger trains went 45-60). All the things that HELP make a small layout seem bigger.
QUOTE: I think that the manufacturers are missing a huge opportunity here.
QUOTE: I don't buy that. Steam engines stopped operating generally about 1956. Assuming "adulthood" means 18, that would mean that only 65+ year olds liked steam engines. There have been a dozen new steam models released in the last couple years, the manufacturers seem to think they have a market there.
QUOTE: Probably 50% of modelers NEVER saw a F unit in regular freight service. But there are a gazillion F units out there.
QUOTE: Talk about your niche markets. Except for the 2-10-4, NONE of those chassis are useable under another design boiler shell, they were all unique wheel arrangements used just once. Yet those were all considered to be valid "business cases". Making a good quality small 2-8-0 that was used by virtually every railroad in the US for decades is a bad business case? That's like saying it would be a bad bet to make a GP-7.
QUOTE: Think about that, 1865 to 1918. 53 years. That's like the model manufacturers skipped every single engine between the FT and the SD70.
QUOTE: Late 19th century and turn-of-the-century locomotives were physically quite small and even today it's difficult to produce a really good running example of these engines in HO scale because of the necessary small size of the motor/flywheel.