Eric Brooman-EMD Sellout? (No offence intended)

[Anonymous]

It is his model railroad and he owns it. We all have our traditions and they change over a period of time. It is funny to me that he started using GE's at a time when the SD70Aces are starting to sell and the Montana Like purchased them.

By the way, EMD just signed an order for 300 SD90MAC's 6000HP units to China. They will be modified for export, but they are 6000 HP units. It is on their web page and that means they are taking orders ane will continue to be an alternate Diesel supplier to the railroads. .

[steveblackledge]

What a hornet's nest this has stirred up,,,anyone fancy throwing there GE units my way, i will give them a good home

[ereimer]

geez guys , they're all diesels , what's the difference ?
everybody knows you should be running steam


[:)]

[selector]

YEAH!!!. S1-c's, FEF's, J1's (from Pennsy, natch), T1's, AC's, ...oh, oh, oohhhhhhhh!

(Umm...I'll be right back....)

[Anonymous]

Boy, talk about throwing gas on the fire.....

[rrinker]

There's a video from the NMRA Convention showing the Digitrax sound. It's quite good, and no one can touch the price. Where's this idea that is does, or will, stink come from? Had anyone paid attention, the person who did the videotape himself mentioned the apparent bell drop-out is his fault from the hasty editing.

--Randy

[cjcrescent]

Time to flu***his subject.

[Anonymous]

Yeah...diesels suck......and I have their phone number.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer

geez guys , they're all diesels , what's the difference ?
everybody knows you should be running steam


[:)]

[DavidJ611]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

Hmmmm. Maybe GE bought a controlling interest in the Utah Belt and strong armed management into the purchase thus putting the financial interests of corporations ahead of the railfan. Or maybe they would have purchased new EMD units but those darn dishonest lawyers threatened to sue. Or perhaps the Utah Belt is protesting Walther's purchase of Life-Like and the impending collapse of the model railroad hobby and of course the related reason that Bachmann is junk. Oh I know. The Utah Belt did purchase EMD units, but Eric used Photoshop to make us think they are GE units.

Have I hit all the hot threads yet?

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

In any event - Eric Brooman continues to do a fine job with his layout.

LOL, Dave! [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][;)]
...All you missed was Mike Wohlf (sp?) suing somebody.

-Dave

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bwilcox

Antonio & Dave (and anyone else who has properly deemed me as grumpy....),

You both make good points. I suppose there's no harm to the "debate" as long as it doesn't get personal and ugly...and I've seen that happen over lesser issues.

BWilcox,

You are not a grumpy! You posted a good thread.

GUYS, some of you, IMHO, are over reacting! Why are you hurling mud at the man? We're not in a demolition derby. [:(!] We can kid each other, but please don't get nasty! [B)]This is a classic Ford vs. Chevy thread and we should be having fun with it....[:p]......not launching heat seeking missles.[V]

SD70ace ugly? Hmmmmmmmmm. O.K, they don't look as nice as the cowl nosed style previous version, yet still, I think that they look better than the traditional EMD "Spartan Cab" design that's lasted about 40 years since the GP35 was introduced!

[:D][:p]

[jeffshultz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

Back on topic, since he went with GE do you think he is using the GE repair program or doing the repairs in-house, isn't that another reason many RR's have gone to GE? On my RR we buy used EMD's but buy new GE's since they are the better runners, though we did get stuck with those monster SD80MAC's that NS got on the Conrail buy [banghead], talk about fuel hogs and keeping them running, my shop people staged a 1 day walkout on that deal. I now know better.

To quote the article on that topic:

"Finally, one of the major reasons the Utah Belt remained a one-builder road for so many years is that of maintenance and parts continuity. General Electric overcame that obstacle by providing a service package for the UB similar to an arrangement it had with the Kansas City Southern -- all maintenance will be performed by GE technicians at a manufacturer-built facility in El Paso, Texas. Special concessions by the Utah Belt's unions had to be worked out before this arrangement could be finalized, but it went through smoothly enough."

[pandabear]

Spartans, forever! Widecabs, never![;)]

Cool! Page leader!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeffshultz

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

Back on topic, since he went with GE do you think he is using the GE repair program or doing the repairs in-house, isn't that another reason many RR's have gone to GE? On my RR we buy used EMD's but buy new GE's since they are the better runners, though we did get stuck with those monster SD80MAC's that NS got on the Conrail buy [banghead], talk about fuel hogs and keeping them running, my shop people staged a 1 day walkout on that deal. I now know better.

To quote the article on that topic:

"Finally, one of the major reasons the Utah Belt remained a one-builder road for so many years is that of maintenance and parts continuity. General Electric overcame that obstacle by providing a service package for the UB similar to an arrangement it had with the Kansas City Southern -- all maintenance will be performed by GE technicians at a manufacturer-built facility in El Paso, Texas. Special concessions by the Utah Belt's unions had to be worked out before this arrangement could be finalized, but it went through smoothly enough."

It's a shame I read an article, and then forget what it said, but then again, it's like a new magizine each time I read it [:I][8D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DavidJ611
...All you missed was Mike Wohlf (sp?) suing somebody.

-Dave

Also Union Pacific is sueing Eric Brooman for running Union Pacific rolling stock in interchange service that have not had the licencing duties paid on them yet. Given the CIA Meets NAZI legal thinking I wouldn't be suprised. I have a bullet with *** Davidson's name on it if they ever try it with me.

James.

[pandabear]

Geez, James, what did he ever do to you? As far as I can tell, those that can pay it do, those that can't don't make UP stuff any more and that's that. Get over it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

Hmmmm. Maybe GE bought a controlling interest in the Utah Belt and strong armed management into the purchase thus putting the financial interests of corporations ahead of the railfan. Or maybe they would have purchased new EMD units but those darn dishonest lawyers threatened to sue. Or perhaps the Utah Belt is protesting Walther's purchase of Life-Like and the impending collapse of the model railroad hobby and of course the related reason that Bachmann is junk. Oh I know. The Utah Belt did purchase EMD units, but Eric used Photoshop to make us think they are GE units.

Have I hit all the hot threads yet?

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

In any event - Eric Brooman continues to do a fine job with his layout.

Dave,
You forgot the one about how the idea to run GE locomotives was an idea that was created by MTH, and they threatened to sue if he did not do so!

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

There's a video from the NMRA Convention showing the Digitrax sound. It's quite good, and no one can touch the price. Where's this idea that is does, or will, stink come from?
--Randy

Randy, I believe this idea came from:

QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay

He can run what he want's on his stuff. If he gets a wild hair and wants to motorize a bunch of turds and run them, he can do that, too.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pandabear

Geez, James, what did he ever do to you? As far as I can tell, those that can pay it do, those that can't don't make UP stuff any more and that's that. Get over it.

The legal manipulating antics of Union Pacifics and the hostile and beligerant way they went about it, serously tainted my enjoyment of the hobby. Still nearly a year after its over, I still get a little queazy around armor yellow. And am still seriously considering striking all UP and Absorbed victims from my roster. Then to add more fuel to the fire they are sueing a 90 year old lady over $1800 because her son made a UP themed calendar. They are a billion dollar corporation. What is wrong with this picture. Oh yes in order to be "American" now you have to be a greedy money mongering instant gratificationalist.

James

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

QUOTE: Originally posted by pandabear

Geez, James, what did he ever do to you? As far as I can tell, those that can pay it do, those that can't don't make UP stuff any more and that's that. Get over it.

The legal manipulating antics of Union Pacifics and the hostile and beligerant way they went about it, serously tainted my enjoyment of the hobby. Still nearly a year after its over, I still get a little queazy around armor yellow. And am still seriously considering striking all UP and Absorbed victims from my roster. Then to add more fuel to the fire they are sueing a 90 year old lady over $1800 because her son made a UP themed calendar. They are a billion dollar corporation. What is wrong with this picture. Oh yes in order to be "American" now you have to be a greedy money mongering instant gratificationalist.

James

Okay guys! Let's get back to deconstucting the Utah Belt's choice of GE's

[trainboyH16-44]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

QUOTE: Originally posted by grande man

I like them all and don't understand the GE hatred. Would someone please explain it to me.

Actually I think the 70ACe is pretty darn ugly. All that exposed piping and wiring might make for easy servicing, which is certainly a critical selling point, but it does nothing for the looks.

I agree, and that is why my railway is ordering them with custom cabs and full skirting
trainboy

[peterjenkinson1956]

i have all of erics railroad articles in a folder and he has allways moved with the times... i remember when he got rid of the covered wagons and was kit bashing his own modern diesels.......... i run my model railroad in a similar fashion..i have 17 ge's (C S X ) pulling coal trains AND i found 4 x more ge locos new in boxes when i had a clean up... i think ge's look more powerfull than emd's ps i am a chev man...G T O made in australia.... peter

[AntonioFP45]

Wow! How did UP wind up getting in this thread?

Student of the Big Blue Sky, it is a worthwhile issue. Why don't you post a new thread on it. (but please encourage everyone to keep their cool!) As for the woman being sued, see if you can find a reputable news article and share it here.

A corporation like UP is not going to sue an individual outright. Letters and "Cease and Desist" documents have to be issued first. Litigation threats come only after all of the preliminary steps are exhausted and the violater still refuses to comply. I would not let these issues interfere with my modeling. As I mentioned on another thread; I have a great deal of admiration for the Union Pacific.......of the past. So I will be buying a pair of Armour Yellow SD40-2s. UP was the road that helped make these puppies famous.

Now back to the GE topic.
Sorry guys, I've been a modeler and railfan for nearly 3 decades. I still don't see what the big deal is! These are locomotives!

My two cents: IMHO, today's GE and EMD locomotives are still far more attractive than hood units of the past. I've been on a prototype GP7, several U-Boats, GP38 and GP40, and switchers. (In 1978, good manners got you Cab Rides on SCL back then).

I treasure those experiences, but when these modern six axle wide cab GEs and EMDs were introduced.......I basically thought to myself: "Whoa!" Put these babies in a parade!" To me, they presented the appearance of sleekness and horsepower muscle! My problem with the EMD "Spartan Cab"? No style, purely functional. Reminds me too much of semi-tractor trailer truck cabs. The old GE U-Boat and Dash 7 cabs, with their "*** Tracy" frowns, were to me more attractive than EMDs hood cabs.

I like the 1st and 2nd generation diesels very much and model them. But when I compare photos of a GE U25C with a GE AC4400 or an EMD SD70ace with an SD35.......to me it's No Contest! These modern units are cool!

The SD70ace and GE Toasters ugly? To me "ugly" is the CF7, the Krauss Maffieis diesel hydraulics, the low nosed 1st Generation EMD Geeps, and I know I'm going to get flamed for this one.......but good goobly! Those lonnnnnng nosed Alco RSD "Crocodile things" Yipes![:0]

If Eric has GE toasters running on his polished rails........then more power to him (pun intended).

This thread reminds me of the flack I caught from a friend at the transit company when I switched from driving GM cars to Toyotas 11 years ago. I had been hard core GM since my teen years. But to this day I have no regrets or complaints.

[trainboyH16-44]

I guess I'm a little touchy on this subject because the Utah Belt was my idol railway until they got AC4400s. I actually modeled my Alberta Pacific's modern fleet after his (With a few more SD40s and SD45s) He was my EMD hero.
Anyone else want to fill the void?
trainboy

[davekelly]

Antionio,

Although we very much seem to agree on everything, I'm afraid we'll have to part ways. Nothing is more cool than 3 or 4 Alco RS-3's pulling a freight. No sissy cabs there!!

OK. The period of parting of ways is over. I will understand your point of view concerning the new diesels. Keep in mind I am doing this only because of an earlier promise to myself to be more tolerant of other's opinions, no matter how wrong they might be. Ooops! erase erase erase.

Now that powered toaster unit . .. . .hmmm sounds pretty neat. If it pops out the toast the way the one did on I Love Lucy I guess the guy in the caboose can catch it and have a snack!! I of course, would prefer running some Foreman Grills. Much more manly.

Still hoping that Eric finds a way to justify having at least one rebuilt Alco on his roster.


Dave

[dharmon]

As a contemporary freelance modeler, albeit a smaller road, I have followed the Utah Belt's progress with interest. Everything he has done has been a logical pattern of events along prototypical lines. His power choices have reflected the types of decisions that a real RR would follow, first with the single source (EMD) for maintenace purposes and now with the GE move. Looking at some of the other regionals, such as Guilford, they did a similiar move, retiring the GEs from service, or Motreal, Maine and Atlantic, going to a GE roster, with the exception of EMDs on a reserve/lease basis for shortages to ease the logistics burden on the maintainers.

On my road, the GEs (U boats) have been transferred to a leasing divison, leaving an all older EMD roster on the road itself. The GE's are available as needed, but the spares issues are transferred to another. Even my beloved F units are now held in reserve and MOW service, as the reality is that they are unsuitable for road work anymore, even on a regional. Six axle units are still in mainline service, but new aquisitions will likey be rebuilt second hand four axle units, coupled with road slugs to achieve additional tractive effort when needed.

It's his railroad to do as he pleases. And he pleases to keep up with contemporary practice. No selling out, just reflecting the realities of modern railroading.

Dan

[Anonymous]

Dave,

I think he will need to hire a shop forman or get someone on his Board of Directors to get some Alco Loving. There was a Trains article about the roads still running Alco rosters. I think it's more of a passion thing.

I think Eric is doing a great "serious" model railroad, something many of us are doing, I think the banter of his choice of GE over EMD that is going on speaks well of his empire, I mean how many other model RR's get this much press, almost feels like I am on the Trains forums discussing railfanning. Also I wonder if Eric has read what is going on, be great to see him pop in and smack the group into submission [bow][bow][bow]

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

Although we very much seem to agree on everything, I'm afraid we'll have to part ways. Nothing is more cool than 3 or 4 Alco RS-3's pulling a freight. No sissy cabs there!!

--------------- Sissy Cab? What in the world define's a "sissy cab"? Strange, since the fundamental design for these so called "sissy cabs" dates back to 1967. Even stranger is that a "Sissy Cab" can withstand a head on collision far better than those "other" cabs. Sissy?----------That's solid Testostorone! [4:-)][C):-)]

QUOTE: Now that powered toaster unit . .. . .hmmm sounds pretty neat. If it pops out the toast the way the one did on I Love Lucy...much more manly

Now that's weird. Everytime I see them they're flying by at 65 mph hauling mile long CSX intermodals. Indeed, it is much more manly.

QUOTE: Still hoping that Eric finds a way to justify having at least one rebuilt Alco on his roster.

------------- If he's modeling in prototype style, then from a business standpoint, how could he? While modern diesel locomotives are fundamentally similar, the two biggest issues for the railroad shop forces are:

(1) Railroad Mechanics and Electrician's familiarity with the equipment and its quirks. This includes the average length of time it takes to service or repair maintenance or performance related problems. Now, if the Utah Belt were going to purchase a fleet of rebuilt Alcos due to positive performance stats, then it could be justifiable to railroad directors. But to make an expensive investment to purchase one or two uncommon units?......The railroad bean counters would likely not recommend it. Some railroads did this in the past, like when the Santa Fe purchased only one pair of Alco DL109s. However, today's prototype Class 1's don't normally do this anymore. Too risky.

(2) Availability of mechanical, electrical, and electronic parts. Is there a distributor that has critical parts in stock? Are they capable of rapid shipping? How do these parts compare, pricewise, to similar components in the competitors' locomotives?

These are always a big issue with commerical transportation companies.

[TrainFreak409]

Well, from what I've read of the Utah Belt, I am not surprised that he is adding GEs to his roster. Railroads today are doing it for various reasons, and he is reflecting that in his railroad. I understand completely why he is doing it, and I think that his railroad is one of the best I have ever seen. It's not just the operations, or how it looks, but the fact that it IS constantly changing, and upgrading for specific reasons. In my view, that is one of the characteristics of the perfect model railroad.[tup]

Now, I am not saying that I truely support his decision from the viewpoint of my interests, which don't mean anything to him, so I wouldn't get upset. But, it did touch me seeing the SD9s go. I love high nose diesels, especially the lower numbers of EMD's SD series. They are stunning locomotives, and I was sad to see them go.

Now, when it comes to the argument about which diesels look good, and which bad, and which are just down right ugly...I think for the most part, a lot of them look the same today. I like the change in design with the SD70ACe. I can actually distinguish it from other locomotives.

But, my favorites would have to be ALCo's, and Krauss-Maffeis.[8D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Wow! How did UP wind up getting in this thread?

Student of the Big Blue Sky, it is a worthwhile issue. Why don't you post a new thread on it.

Because they just get deleted.

Now as to the Utah Belt, Exellent Model Railroad. Eric is a fantastic modeler. He is second only to Allen McClellend in his greatness. Eric, like Allen devised a concept for his railway and grounded it solidly in reality. Then stuck rigidly to that concept. Allen is only greater because he did it first. I am still trying to figure out how to build a house inwhich I can build my own GN model railroad. Ressurect the V&O Afton Divsion, and the Utah Belt and route traffic between all three. The only other thing I worry about is if Allen and Eric will have any problems with that. And the fact I would have all three set in 1969.

As for the EMD vs GE debate. Its accademic. Both companies for years have designed their engines more around what the work is to perform rather than what looks good. To illistrate my point. the SD50 looks alot like an SD60 which looks alot like an SD70. Same thing with GE. Dash 8s look alot like Dash 9s wich look alot like like the new ES44s. Beuty is hardly a consideration in design. The fact that they both came out with design asthetics that have endeared fans to them is a secondary effect and happened purely by accident.

As for Union Pacific, my hatred for how that company does business now clearly illistrates why I abandoned my old name "Grayhound Challenger"

James

[davekelly]

Antonio,

I was just yanking your chain earlier. [:D][:D][:D]

Alas, I've accepted the fact that big time railroads like the Norfolk Southern, BNSF and the Utah Belt would never bring back an Alco. [sigh][sigh][sigh][sigh][sigh]

But, how about if some rich eccentric guy buys a controlling interest in the Utah Belt and then decides he doesn't care if it loses money, and he really thinks Alco's are cool looking and then he ...................... Yeah, probably not likely. Now if the government were to buy the Utah Belt.................. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Sunset Limited]

I remember years back when Eric ran his Utah Belt F-Units, GP's,SD's and cabooses. I think it was in the Railroad Model Craftsman magazine. That's when I really like his layout. I would have gone further back in time and included passenger equipment. I model around that period. Now I respect his decision to modernize his railroad. It's his railroad! It seems that every era has a give or take situation, the choice is yours!!!
SELLOUT? No, just a modeler with a vision![^]