Amtrak arrests Sunset Limited passenger for trespassing-I am outraged!

[okiechoochoo]

I back the police. You can't be too careful. I heard on the news the other night that Osama may have as many as 20 suitcase nukes that were perfected in the old Soviet Union and are now unaccounted for.
They are not done with us yet. We can't get lax

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by okiechoochoo

I back the police. You can't be too careful. I heard on the news the other night that Osama may have as many as 20 suitcase nukes that were perfected in the old Soviet Union and are now unaccounted for.
They are not done with us yet. We can't get lax

Actually add the fact that this happened in New Orleans, of course before the huricane, but if the looting/shooting and from what I heard on the radio today, rapes and murders, maybe the police and RR police are just a little more on guard down there with what looks like a under the surface and waiting to boil population. I know I would be. Though this guy wasn't looting, shooting, carrying any nukes and such. Just wondering...

[John Busby]

Hi guys
The railway reserve is not puplic land regardless of public or private ownership.
The public has the right to acsess public areas however they do not have the right to leave designated public areas without the express written permision of the railway.
Quite frankly as a railway employee .
I applude Amtrack for doing it. I wi***he railway I work for had the guts to do it
then I would not be out fixing damadge done by the so called public all the ***ed time, when I have my own railway to build and play with.
I am also sick of the crazy railway enthusiasts who have this death wi***rying to get that perfect picture[V].
Wake up fellows your train room is the playground my work place the railway reserve is not a play ground.
You should not be there without a guide the propper dress required and express written permission form the railway company.
if you are its your fine, jail time or worse funeral.
I have been to a site where the emergency services picked up the pieces fortunatly gone just before my arrival I dont want to have to do that again.
[soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox]
regards John

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by icmr

I'm VERY MAD about all of this.

Here's an idea. Someone starts a national Railfan club and if you are a member you get a card that says you can legally be around the tracks, take pictures, and viedo tape the trains. That way you can be there and no problems.

Would that it was that simple!

When a train sounds audible warning at you do you know the correct response?

I'm not knocking Railfans...

I've just known way too many bodies picked out from under...

You want to be the police officer (one of those BIG BAD Police officers) who goes round to tell your wife and kids that your parts are down the morgue? Oh Yeah... and the Coyotes will be snacking on the bits they didn't find... after the fire crew finished hosing your blood,guts and brains off the neighbourhood.
Got the idea...?

I was taking a train up to London with a girlfriend. As we walked across an invisible line at the station entrance she laughed. (By the way, that's the same line where the commuters turn their brains off automatically and expect to be ejected gently at the other end on time to the nanosecond)...
So,anyway... I asked her what was funny. Her chuckle was because she'd noticed other rail workers come out of an office/mess room as her train pulled in the day before. She said that she saw a magic transformation as they crossed some other invisible line. Both they and I apparently changed "mode".

her observation was correct... we do... I don't know how... it gets in the blood...

Rail workers still get killed and maimed...

When I have new staff I give them this example...
Do you play football/American football/cricket/baseball/basketball/... ?

Okay... so, when you are playing you need to have a strong awareness of where your team members are around you, where the opposition are, what's happening, what APPEARS to be developing and several more likely alternates that could happen.

Okay... so you play on Sundays and when you can fit it in... You need to have the PROFESSIONAL SKILLS that would get you into Manchester United , the Red Sox or whoever... This isn't a hobby ... it's a job.

That's Exactly the sort of awareness you need to develop when "on or about the track"... which means from about ten foot before you cross the boundary.

You need to have that "radar" scanning every second you are there.

I've come so close to being spread thin by a Class 47 doing 70 that my colleague watching past out. (Which put him at risk of injury).

I've known a Station Master who was a good guy and red hot on safety get spread the length of West Croydon Station.

What chance do you expect someone wandering about with :-
no proper training,
no mentoring,
no proper experience,
probably little or no proper equipment...
to have?

Do you know how far back you should stand from a train doing 70?

Do you understand "turbulance"?

We had a very nice young lad, a vicar's son, no vandal or trouble maker, wanted to get some really good pictures... so he climbed onto a car... got away with it until he tried to climb over the catenary...

They wouldn't let his parents see what was left.

They'd had to chip molten flesh off the car roof.

You could (in this country) do a "Track Environment" course... £1,100... after you've paid for your "Personal track Safety" course.... and, as someone that started 25 + years ago I don't reckon either is worth zip....

The way I was trained... I went out with a steam man who'd worked on the track during WWII. He told me what NOT to do, then what to do.

If I started to move the wrong way I got a smack in the ear on that side... barbaric?... a train ... doing 1 mph... doesn't know anything about culture... doesn't care... it's pieces of metal... moving.

I got the message... and the above time is still not the only time I've had to stand back fast and take a shuddering breath.

I WANT RAILFANS TO ENJOY RAILROADS.

I DON'T WANT THEM TO END UP IN BODY BAGS.

There is one thing that I tell all new staff is THE MOST DANGEROUS THING ON THE TRACK...

IT'S YOU.
YOU ARE WHAT WILL PUT YOU IN DANGER...
NOT THE RAILROAD
NOT THE MANAGEMENT
NOT A FRIEND
NOT YOUR WIFE
NOT YOUR HUSBAND
NOT YOUR KIDS

YOU

Which do you reckon is the more likely to get you into danger? ...

Drugs in your blood?
Alcohol?
Fatigue?
The row you had with your parther?
The letter from the IRS?
Concentrating on what you are doing?

HEY! (As they used to say on Hill Street Blues) "Let's be careful out there".

ENJOY YOUR RAILROADING

[Anonymous]

Yep, after reading all that, there must be something missing to the story. He must have mouthed off at the cop, caus even most hoons will try "if their smart enough" to be polite or just ask mercy. The difference is maybe, if he didn't know that he was in the wrong, then being cheated out of your right would seem unfair, but in this police state the world is turning into, low profile is the way to go. Maybe Afganistan has trains, I bet I could take pics there, maybe even of one blowing up?????[:P][:P][:P] Or I should invite all railfans to a new world on the moon where their are no cops and we'll cover the surface in tracks. DD[}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)][}:)]

[Anonymous]

NOW YOU GOT ME MAD TOO!

[:(!][V][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][censored][soapbox][soapbox]

1. You got a ticket? “You got a right to be there”!
Yeah…like you’ve got a ticket to the Superbowl…so you’ve got a right to run down to the end zone to get the perfect shot of a touchdown.
Try it… if you’re lucky the Cops will get to you before the fans do… before the players do.
2. You have a “Human Right” to play Russian Roulette with an automatic pistol if you want to.
Yeah, well, maybe…. Just do it on your own property, where the travel-on won’t hit anyone else… oh yeah, and in a body bag so no-one else has to clear up your mess.
3. Now I wasn’t there so I don’t know exactly what went down…BUT…
Maybe the cop was heavy handed… the guy had been warned about “Amtrak Cops” already… If I’m warned that there’s “trouble” about I keep
a low profile, I’m ultra polite… I take the cop’s number… I discreetly record what happens on my cell phone… In a location like that in this
country I would make sure I was on CCTV and my solicitors would be demanding a copy of the “Chain of Custody” records of the tape plus a
secured copy of the tape.
Then again… though this wouldn’t justify bad policing… what has the cop dealt with recently? Has he not long scraped a railfan off the
track… a drug abuser, a vandal… they all look the same after a train’s gone through them…
4. Some cops are stoopid… some railfans are stoopid… Thank God for potty training! Either way that’s my taxes are paying for the time
taken/wasted… and he should be out giving speeding tickets…
5. Would you stand in on the Freeway to take truck photos?
6. The 9/11 maniacs were “genuine” flying enthusiasts… went to flying school… got proper training…
7. What does the engineer of an intermodal at speed do… hang out the cab and check your “Enthusiasts Pass”?
8 . There is a miniscule minority of people that do the bad things… they foul it up for all of us… and the media don’t help… look at Katrina… first
thing we hear is about rapes, looting, shootouts… how many thousands of acts of caring have we not heard about?
9. Can’t say I count that closely… but how many US citizens are there? How many bombs/terrorist incidents have you had in the last ten years? (One
is too many). We have a national programme called “Crimewatch”… it always ends with the line “Don’t have nightmares”. If we all run around in
fear the maniacs have won. You don’t smoke while putting gas in your car? So just use the same sense about terrorism… we shouldn’t have to but
we all have to live with it. You can’t live on “red alert” 24/7/365.
10. Hey… if you’re a railroad cop… please remember… we’re as passionate about our hobby as you are about yours… you probably get a bit addicted,
a bit blind to reality… put the cuffs on gently… please sir.

[BRAKIE]

Well,I agree we only have the NEWS REPORTERS side of the story and that makes it a incomplete story..
So,just because you like TOY TRAINS doesn't give you the RIGHT to TRESPASS.I like NASCAR racing does that give me the right to TRESPASS on a racing team's private property? Its the same difference except to those obnoxious railfans that believe its their God given right to trespass.

Think of this..IF this bozo was a passenger why didn't he show his ticket stub??? Again there are questions that remain unanswered.

[Paul3]

While it's certainly possible that the passenger caused his own incarceration by mouthing off the to the cop, it's just as possible that said cop is such a loose cannon that he would arrest his own mother for not waving hello when he drove by. I, and most importantly, nobody else, knows which is correct.

But for those that are lining up unquestioningly behind the cop without knowing the truth of the matter, remember this: In the infamous Metra railfan incident, one of the cops told one of the railfans that the new anti-terrorist laws superceded the Constitution of the United States. (!) As everyone in law enforcement (and to anyone who stayed awake in high school Civics class) should know, that's impossible...the Constitution is the highest law in the land.

And for those lining up unquestioningly behind the passenger, remember the source of the story so far is only the passenger. He is likely going to tell his side of the story to make himself look as good as possible.

So, until I hear a follow up story, I'm withholding judgement. I would recommend to anyone else that they do the same.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[John Busby]

Hi David
I don't think they got it.
Or understand about the arcs and sparks you don't hear them approach.
or why certain trains are called the wispering death.
That you don't get a second chance with 1500 VDC or 25KVA.
What to do if you get caught in an awkward spot by a train
or that at 125kmh an eighty to one hundred wagon iron ore train will NOT loose the argument, and cannot stop on a sixpence..
And that you don't always hear that noisy diesel train approach
Or that there are many things that can and do move without warning.
And that without a WPW15 or equivelent you just should not be there
Looks like we may have a few more temporary world citizens than we thought
who will be going home in a jam jar and will not hear the screams and tears of family when they get told
It will yet again be the anti railway brigade crucifying the railways for the actions of yet another idiot who would not listen and got him self killed
the cemeterys are full of people it would never hapen to[:(]..
regards John

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by okiechoochoo

I back the police. You can't be too careful. I heard on the news the other night that Osama may have as many as 20 suitcase nukes that were perfected in the old Soviet Union and are now unaccounted for.
They are not done with us yet. We can't get lax

OH !!! that's where all the WMD's went ! somebody tell george bush

chances are absolutely ZERO that osama has any nukes , he would have used one by now and threatened to use more

[leonardbrand]

While most police are OK guys, even here in Montgomery, AL we have more than our shair of bullies with badges, They are the ones who like to bully people anyway, and with a badge and gun and a small level of intellange, they are in paradice.

[skiloff]

Let's not forget that in litigation-mad America, several teenagers in New York, climbed over a fence, clearly marked "No Trespassing", walked past several more signs, and then were hit by a subway train. I can't remember if some were killed or just maimed, but they SUCCESSFULLY sued the transit authority because they didn't put up enough barricades. There seems to be no personal responsibilty anymore, and THAT is far more of a widespread problem than any possible terrorist act.

[selector]

Ed, you don't give your enemies enough credit. That, my friend, will (could) cost you. [;)]

[siberianmo]

[2c] Regarding the initial accounting .....

I don't doubt for a second that the narrative described what happened from the author's point of view and recollection.

Unfortunately, we don't have the other side - their perceptions - their interpretations of the rules they must follow - previous events of a like nature - in house communiques regarding threats, et al - and perhaps just being rude, ignorant and looking for trouble where it didn't exist. We'll just not know that aspect.

I've been rather abruptly treated by Amtrak people while at Chicago's Union Station when taking pictures departing and boarding trains. They seem to prefer that you do not - although I've not seen any signs stipulating that you cannot. Admittedly, my last trip to that area was about 2 years ago ... things could have changed.

So - I'd just give Amtrak and their police a wide berth (as we mariners say) and not give them reason to descend upon me like Barney Fife in the old Andy Griffith show! It also pays to ask first ......... this is, after all, a different America than before September 11, 2001.

[espeefoamer]

The next time a railfan takes a photo of a train, the scenario could go something like this:Fan takes picture,Police show up in force.Fan is asked to show ID.Fan is escorted to row of white boxcars with no markings,and is hoisted inside and put in shackles and joins others who have only photographed trains.This is most likely to happen on NJT and now,unfortunately,on Amtrak as well[:(!][xx(]!

[Anonymous]

I just had this mental picture of St Peter looking out of his gatehouse a group of Railfans fighting...
One says "The Cop was a Brute"
Another says "The Railfan was a Klutz"
Another says "Their rights under the constitution are..."
Another "they could have been terrorists..."

What St Peter can't understand is why they've each got a stepped grove running through one part of their body or another.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

The next time a railfan takes a photo of a train, the scenario could go something like this:Fan takes picture,Police show up in force.Fan is asked to show ID.Fan is escorted to row of white boxcars with no markings,and is hoisted inside and put in shackles and joins others who have only photographed trains.This is most likely to happen on NJT and now,unfortunately,on Amtrak as well[:(!][xx(]!

I actually found those pictures of the shackle cars, they are white and 40 footers.



Should we really talk shackle cars here?

[JohnT14808]

I think the solution to any photo question would be .....Get a bigger lens and shoot your photos from further away.....and stay off RR property, especialy when a person in authority advises you to.....

[icmr]

David Foster,
I not saying you don't know what your talking about but there are some of us railfans that are friends of Railroad workers. I talk to engineers and conductors and local crew members and I go inside the engine and talk to them. They also gave me a hat that says "Aware, Alert, Never Hurt" and i go by those very words and guess what I am 17 yrs old and the railroad I am talking about is NORFOLK SOUTHERN, the safest railroad for 16 years straight. The crews also look for me because I'm down there every day and they know what I am doing I also help guard the crossing when the crew members haven't got to the crossing yet. So I think that I am only one of the many RAILFANS that know what they are doing when WE are at the tracks. We know the dangers of railfanning.



ICMR

[Anonymous]

All that I'm going to say about this problem is, if you want to take pictures of Amtrak go to Effingham Train Station at Effingham Illinois. I think Amtrak comes through at about 5 PM or something like that, stand there take pictures of it then leave, nobody cares if you're there and Amtrak employees there don't care what you do, people just hop on and hop off, real simple.

[Roadtrp]

Boy, do ya think maybe some of you guys are taking this a little TOO seriously?

My guess is the guy got belligerent when he was asked to stop taking photos. During the heightened security after the London Subway bombings Amtrak disallowed photography on the platform at certain stations.

My family took Amtrak from Minneapolis to Washington DC and back the week after the London bombings. While we were waiting to board for the return trip in DC I overheard someone ask an Amtrak employee if she would be willing to take a photo of the family in front of the train. The Amtrak person said sorry, that with the heightened security in effect no photography was allowed on the platform in certain stations. She said DC and Chicago Union Stations were off limits, but at other station stops they could get the pictures they wanted.

I'm sure this guy was at a station where photography on the platform was not being allowed.

[:)]

[Anonymous]

icmr
What can I say? When I was young... feels like that was back when we were still dinosaur powered some nights... we could walk around country freight yards and photo the brake gear under cars, My dad got permission for us to ride a Black 5 footplate on the MId Wales line... a whole host of things different from now... BUT PLEASE DON'T shout about your Railroad friends... they would almost certainly lose their jobs. PLEASE JOIN OLS... and get your friends to teach you every bit of safety they can. PASS ON THE WORD.

I AM NOT KNOCKING RAILFANS...
I CARE ABOUT RAILROADS
I CARE ABOUT RAILROADERS
I CARE ABOUT RAILFANS

AGAIN I'M NOT KNOCKING RAILFANS... THE VAST MAJORITY ARE SENSIBLE AND RESPONSIBLE... AS WITH EVERYTHING THE FEW CAN MESS IT UP FOR THE MAJORITY... BUT WHEN THEY DO WE NEED TO LOOK AT OUR OWN ACTIONS AND THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CASE...AND THAT INCLUDES ME.

THAT'S WHY I'M SPENDING SO MUCH TIME AT THIS KEYBOARD...

Hey... keep safe and enjoy your trains...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer

he was a passenger and he was on the platform . i'm not sure how that's trespassing . i'm also not sure why the officer was so concerned about someone who was standing talking to 2 other amtrak emplotees .

however , you do have to use a somewhat twisted sense of discretion when talking to law enforcement officers , they're rarely interested in your opinion of their interpretation of the law .
so when an officer tells you something is the law , or against the rules , if you verbally disagree with him that's being beligerant , just like if after being told you are under arrest if you don't immediatly hold out your hands for the cuffs you are resisting arrest

now i don't agree with this , and i have met many police officers who don't immediatly react like this , but it's probably better to say "sorry , sir , i didn't realize this area was off limits " and go on your way than to spend a night in jail

note: having been a harley rider in the 80's , before half the lawyers , bankers and stockbrokers in the world found out it was cool to ride a bike , i have learned these lessons the hard way .

Nice reply! I also think it is best to say sorry sir..... [;)]

[Anonymous]

I hope and pray that the Holy GOD him self brings Holy Terror before this Sin filled Nation. Man kind needs to wake up. Oh GOD I just hope he does something real soon.
I could care less about Terror,Who realy cares.....
I would more concerned more about faceing God himself than this stupid so called TERROR! Hell you want terror? Just look in GOD's eyes and you will FEAR TERROR.
Allan.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

I hope and pray that the Holy GOD him self brings Holy Terror before this Sin filled Nation. Man kind needs to wake up. Oh GOD I just hope he does something real soon.
I could care less about Terror,Who realy cares.....
I would more concerned more about faceing God himself than this stupid so called TERROR! Hell you want terror? Just look in GOD's eyes and you will FEAR TERROR.
Allan.

Allan, calm down, if you believe, you have nothing to fear. My take at least. I for one think it would be rather cool to "look' in his eyes...

[Anonymous]

yeh It would although that [censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][angel][sigh][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][:-^]

[icmr]

David,
I think I will join since I'm wanting to work for NS (the safest railroad) and I didnt mean to shout.

The guy that got arrested should have listened and got back on the train. I still say you have to be SAFE around the tracks but you also have to have FUN.



ICMR

[Anonymous]

Yes im off my [soapbox] now. [:)]
Allan.

[davekelly]

I'm so confused. One thread says we're in a police state and another says that lawlessness is out of control. Gonna have to figure this out. Hmmmmmmmm.

[Anonymous]

I think the officer went a little overboard here. If he would just ask the passenger what he was doing instead of arresting him, he would probably go back to the train with no problem.

I think Amtrak was in the wrong. The tresspassing sign was not in view.

This whole incident is being blown out of proportion.