Amtrak arrests Sunset Limited passenger for trespassing-I am outraged!

[trainboyH16-44]

http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/006/150qzoih.asp
NEW ORLEANS - Amtrak’s no trespassing policy came into sharp focus last month when a passenger on the eastbound Sunset Limited got off the train in New Orleans Saturday, August 19 and walked up the platform to where a locomotive was idling. He wanted to take a photograph of it. Stopped by an Amtrak police officer, he was arrested, booked and spent the night in a city jail. The train departed without him.

The passenger, James Bourgeois, a 60-year-old retired pharmaceutical salesman from Houston, Texas, en route to Pensacola, Fla., says he didn’t do anything to cause his arrest. An Amtrak spokesman said the arresting Amtrak police officer said Bourgeois was belligerent and refused to leave. Bourgeois denies it.

Bourgeois says that while walking up the platform, two female Amtrak employees drove by and asked him what he was doing and admonished him to “watch out for the Amtrak police.”

“I did not take that warning seriously because I was not doing anything wrong,” Bourgeois later recounted. “I joked that maybe ‘they would beat me up, so I could file a multi-million dollar lawsuit.’ ”

Bourgeois says he walked a little farther up the platform to take a few photos when he encountered another Amtrak employee who asked why he was there. Asking if he could walk farther down the platform, he says the employee asked him to wait where he was until someone could accompany him.

While waiting, Bourgeois says the two female Amtrak employees he spoke with previously had returned and the three were chatting when an Amtrak police officer drove up and explained that he was trespassing.

“I merely inquired if this was not public property, since Amtrak is a publicly supported entity,” said Bourgeois. It was then, he says, the Amtrak policeman told him he was under arrest.

Handcuffed and driven to the Amtrak police office, Bourgeois says the officer concocted an almost completely false account of what had occurred. Running Bourgeois’ identification turned up nothing. During the ride to the Orleans Parish Prison, the officer, Bourgeois said, pointed to the “No Trespassing” sign on the chainlink fence, which he claims was not visible from the passenger platform.

Booked and processed at the city jail for criminal trespass, Bourgeois says the Amtrak officer confiscated his wallet, his digital camera and a pocketknife. He also says the officer erased the Amtrak photos he had in his camera and was surprised to find a photo of a pair of Air Force A-10s that had flown by. Bourgeois explained that he liked airplanes because he was a pilot.

The New Orleans police wanted to see his identification, but Bourgeois said the Amtrak officer, who had left the premises, had previously confiscated it. Allowed to make three telephone calls, he called his brother and sister-in-law who lives in Lake Charles, La. His sister-in-law made calls to the people waiting for Bourgeois in Pensacola. A cousin came to the jail to pay his bond. He finally left jail at 12:30 a.m. Sunday and recovered his belongings the next day at the terminal.

“There is no stone I will leave unturned to get justice for this,” Bourgeois says. “As I sat in jail my most consistent thought, after ‘I have to get out of here,” was ‘I have to make this count for something.’ This should never happen to anyone, again.”

Amtrak stands by its police officer that Bourgeois was belligerent and refused to leave, thereby giving him no choice but to arrest Bourgeois, even though he was just taking photos.

“We don’t arrest people for taking photos,” the spokesman said. “We arrest people for trespassing.”

Bourgeois says he does not remember the names of any of the Amtrak personnel he was speaking to at the time of his arrest.

I can't believe it! He should have had more warning, don't you think?
What is America coming to these days?[:(]
I hope that in 10 years, you are still allowed to take pictures of trains at all, since this does seem to be the direction it's heading.
If Canada starts to be like this, I don't know what I'll do.

I did have a minor run-in with a railway police officer in Winnepeg, which I think was a little unfair. I was on the right side of a chain link fence, when I was told by someone on the other side of the fence (in uniform) that I couldn't be there. I asked if this wasn't public property, since I was not past the no trespassing sign, which was on the fence, but I was still told to leave, which I did. I hope that it doesnot get any worse.
Trainboy

[csmith9474]

Be afraid; Be very afraid...

[DigitalGriffin]

With all the terrorist bombings these days, I guess Amtrak employees are a little jumpy. Can't say that I blame them.

But giving a 60 year old man a hard time is just a little on the extreme side. (Providing this story is true.) Remember there are always two sides to each story.

[tstage]

It's often said that "there is always two sides to every story". Somehow I think this is one of those times.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Rules like that are not going to stop any sort of terrorism, they are only going to take all the fun out of failfanning, and thus the terrorists win.

[Anonymous]

I think if it was just taking pictures the AMTRAK police or whomever went a little too far, even if it was tresspassing, still a little extreme, if they didn't find any explosives or other contraband, then they should have slapped his wrist and be done with it. Heck they treat drunk drivers and the gangbangers with more respect, sad state of affairs to be sure. He did have a good point about AMTRAK being public property, though the way he said it was a little smart acting. Not sure I would spout off to hard with law enforcement. Take that back I WOULDN'T!

[davekelly]

I have a strange feeling that there is something missing in the story. It would be interesting to do some digging and discover more information before jumping to conclusions.

I've often enjoyed listening to someone describe his or her actions which led to an arrest and then watch the video tape of the arrest. Often times very very very different.

[selector]

People gladly believe what they wi***o. Julius Ceasar said that 2000 years ago.

If you are a rail fan, and find that rail police often get in your face, then it isn't you...oh, no. Much more convenient to think it's those nasty police, and anybody who supports them, that's all ****ed up.

Note to self: When asked by any police offer (the first tip) to leave an area because he/she says I am trespassing, don't retort that it is public property. Ranks way up there on the list of dumb things to say to a peace officer.

[davekelly]

What would happen if I were to somehow find myself inside the vaults at Fort Knox? I'm thinking that's public property also. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

[Darth Santa Fe]

And the morral of this story is...always do what the police tell you to, or you'll get arrested.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

What would happen if I were to somehow find myself inside the vaults at Fort Knox? I'm thinking that's public property also. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Private Public Property? Also if you wound up inside Fort Knox, on your way out, could you grab me a couple bars, before you are humming a few bars, behind bars [:D]

[Javern]

He was warned by Amtrak employees so be it ina subtle way, I think he should have known better and left, these are different times than they were before 9/11. We all have to know that.

[tatans]

Are you sure you weren't in East Berlin and this happened in 1960? were the Polezie speaking Russian.? Remember, this is how this stuff starts.

[AntonioFP45]

Not justifying the actions of the police if they over-reacted.......but it's likely possible that the 4/11 train bombings in Spain are still fresh in the mind of many Amtrak employees. The attitude of "It can't happen here" is long gone.

[areibel]

I think another problem is the type of people that wind up as "Security" officers, I think they've watched Judge Dread too many times. They won't or can't make it as a police officer, but they can have the next best thing, a badge, gun and lots of self imagined power. I've seen it in individuals from game wardens to the rent -a- cop security
at everything from county fairs to high school football games. The attitude, demeanor and even the swagger is all the same. They are THE LAW!
I can see this happening if the passenger even tried to joke about it- a just cause for over reaction in the "Officer"'s eyes. I'm not a big ACLU supporter but if this is true, I'd have called them a loooong time ago!
And I am not cop bashing! My brother is a agent in the Virginia State Police, working with their anti-terrorisdm unit. He fights real terrorists, not 60 year old guys with cameras!

[skiloff]

There obviously isn't enough information there to form a final opinion, but I have three comments, as others have mentioned:

1) Don't smart mouth anyone in authority, regardless of whether you think its funny or not. They are doing their job, whether you like it or not, and don't deserve to be disrespected (even when they are disrespectful).

2) 9/11 changed everything for everyone - don't expect that just because you are shooting a few pictures that everyone should believe you aren't up to something else. Knowing about the Madrid and London bombings probably has Amtrak on high alert, so don't screw around.

3) Throwing a mouthy sixty year old man in jail when alternatives could have been explored is a little over the line - depending on the circumstances. Nobody wins in these situations, but some common sense is in order.

[Anonymous]

We had years of IRA bombs before 9/11 etc. I've evacuated and searched stations and trains (I even contributed to a Motorway being shut in the Rush-Hour). One thing I would reckon... you don't see someone leaving a supicious package standing around with a camera chatting. You also usually get a bad felling about people that are trouble... though you may only realise that it was a bad feeling after the trouble went down.

Then again... railways may be publicly owned/owned by the Governement (I don't know your law) but that doesn't mean a right of access. Would you expect to walk on an artillery range? Even more simple... if you were walking on a freeway would you argue with an officer telling you to get off? (Here walking on Motorways is illegal).

Trains DON'T go round you.

Photography is innocent, harmless etc etc. Yup... until you're not paying attention ...except to the loco on the far track ...and the train moving back on the near track takes you out.

Officially you have to get a permit to take any pictures on British railways/ Network Rail property... I've never known where you would get one. If you are outside the fence you are outside the fence... unless it's signed MoD land (Same as DoD).
People DO get absorbed in taking pictures... and fall off platforms... you've probably seen those "hilarious" videos of people filming the kids and falling in the pond on TV. do that with a train and...

Why should the Engineer have cardiac arrest?

I notice that in the account someone said "wait until we get someone to escort you... " this is exactly my point... and probably why he got arrested... it sounds like he didn't wait for someone going out of their way to provide help for him to be safe. how long would he have had to wait for an escort. The escort is there to save him from getting killed. What's a photo worth? Had he thought about the risk to himself? to others? Does he realise the complications of extracting a body from under a train?

Okay the cop may have been heavy handed... a train wouldn't be.

A win for the terrorists? only if you let it be. Think... we have to watch EVERYONE who wanders where they can do themselves or others harm... the more people there are just wandering around the easier it is for a maniac to go un-noticed. Also, if I don't stop you... on what ground do I stop anyone else? This is simply another reason for being sensible and policing ourselves. You don't leave your baggage standing around at an airport ... I HOPE!... same applies around trains.

Another line on the same thing... when mobile phones first went "hands free" we kept seeing people wandering around platform ends apparently talking to themselves... "Look-out! A jumper"! Then we got used to them... so a jumper walking around talking to him/herself became just someone talking on the phone...

If you don't want "Big Brother" laws don't give the law makers an excuse to bring them in...

[Anonymous]

Maybe they were scared of a terrorist attack, because its n.o., especally since they are at a low point to say the least. When I went on Amtrak last month with my mother, I ran up to the front of the train and took pictures, but no one said anything. There is probably more to the story, imo.
Andrew

[Virginian]

I was not there so I do not know what happened. I could speculate ad infinitum, but I won't. I will say that I agree with the above statement "something seems to be missing here".

[Anonymous]

God bless America [xx(]

[ereimer]

he was a passenger and he was on the platform . i'm not sure how that's trespassing . i'm also not sure why the officer was so concerned about someone who was standing talking to 2 other amtrak emplotees .

however , you do have to use a somewhat twisted sense of discretion when talking to law enforcement officers , they're rarely interested in your opinion of their interpretation of the law .
so when an officer tells you something is the law , or against the rules , if you verbally disagree with him that's being beligerant , just like if after being told you are under arrest if you don't immediatly hold out your hands for the cuffs you are resisting arrest

now i don't agree with this , and i have met many police officers who don't immediatly react like this , but it's probably better to say "sorry , sir , i didn't realize this area was off limits " and go on your way than to spend a night in jail

note: having been a harley rider in the 80's , before half the lawyers , bankers and stockbrokers in the world found out it was cool to ride a bike , i have learned these lessons the hard way .

[Train 284]

Well I find that to be the biggest load of bull [censored] I have ever heard!!! Arrested for tresspassing? What? He went off to get a couple photos and he was put in jail! What is the world coming to? Trespassing on public land, wow that makes perfect sense.....NOT! Oh boy! [:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][V][V][banghead][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][sigh][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Train 284

Well I find that to be the biggest load of bull [censored] I have ever heard!!! Arrested for tresspassing? What? He went off to get a couple photos and he was put in jail! What is the world coming to? Trespassing on public land, wow that makes perfect sense.....NOT! Oh boy! [:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][V][V][banghead][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][sigh][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn]

[:0] I take it your upset by all this.

[Anonymous]

Amtrak is government. Government is big. Big is inherently dumb. The bigger gov't gets, the more 'zero tolerance' policies make no sense. Besides, if he was on a passenger platform, how on earth could that be trespassing? I guess every passenger that walked along that platform should be arrested, right? Morons.

[howmus]

Since I was not there and therefore do NOT know the whole story, I cannot be too sure of why this guy was arrested. I'm glad so many others seem to know so much more than I do....... (Sarcasm!!!!) I have a feeling someone will soon post a different (and more complete) story of what really happened. Remember the e-bay thread a month or so ago. Lets calm down until some FACTS appear. I don't think there is a need for the lynch mob just yet. [:D]

[Tracklayer]

Like others have said, I wasn't there, so I really can't judge. But I have to say that a lot of railroads are paranoid now a days of not only possible terrorist, but law suits as well.

An example of this paranoia is when a friend and I went train photographing last spring, and got pulled over and questioned by the police in Somerville Texas. After the officer realized we weren't up to anything, he reminded us to stay off railroad property and told us not to have too much fun...

Tracklayer

[icmr]

I'm VERY MAD about all of this.

Here's an idea. Someone starts a national Railfan club and if you are a member you get a card that says you can legally be around the tracks, take pictures, and viedo tape the trains. That way you can be there and no problems.

[waltersrails]

i agree ICMR.
i think the guy should sue Amtrack and shut them down for good.
They are nothing but problems.[:(!]

[dinwitty]

I think for now this country is going to be rather nitzy for terrorist things, that suxors for the railfan enjoyment. If he was on his train, tho he should have stayed on it, and not jump off.

I rode to LA on Amtrak and in Albuquerque, NM, you are allowed to deboard and take in the vendors at the station.
But if you deboard your train otherwise you risk the train leaving before you can get back on.
Your better if you let the conductor know your interested in taking a photo of your train. That way the crews wont be antzy about crazy things railfans do.
or be suspicious.

otherwise get pics at othertimes at decent photo spots not trying to ride the train.
Really, its common curteousy to let the crew know your interests in the hobby.

[Train 284]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dthurman

QUOTE: Originally posted by Train 284

Well I find that to be the biggest load of bull [censored] I have ever heard!!! Arrested for tresspassing? What? He went off to get a couple photos and he was put in jail! What is the world coming to? Trespassing on public land, wow that makes perfect sense.....NOT! Oh boy! [:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][V][V][banghead][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][sigh][soapbox][soapbox][soapbox][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn][tdn]

[:0] I take it your upset by all this.

Maybe just a bit.......[:I]