$$$$$$$ again

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rogerhensley

I hear you. Every time I say that we are pricing ourselves out of the hobby, I get shot at.

As much as many don't want to hear it, Roger is quite correct in his observation. The majority of the big manufacturers are today aiming most of their product lines at the small proportion of hobbyist for which money is not an object. Runs of items are very small compared with even just 10 years ago, much higher priced, and we are rapidly approaching the time of pre-order-availability-only. Very little consideration is being given to the average hobbyist or to the hobby's future. As LHS continue to vanish exposure for the hobby dwindles. In part because there are no entry level sets of any quality, major retail outlets no longer stock any model trains at Christmastime (or otherwise). And in so many word, WGH has said to heck with potential new, younger modelers, we're aiming only at the deep pockets of the 45-60 crowd and let them provide exposure to the hobby if they want too. Overall, most manufacturers of plastic HO models are following the path brass took - ever more detailed models at ever higher prices for a dwindling customer base. While this practice may temporarily produce a better bottom line for the companies, it will ultimately spell the demise of the hobby's viability.

CNJ831

[jrbernier]

Let's look at those cheap Model Power/Life-Like train sets. A few years ago(1999 NTS) I spoke with a Life-Like Rep. I asked him when they were going to drop the cheap 'Life-Like' line and just put their time into the P2K line. He told me that they make lots of money off of the train set line(it hits the price point that the dept stores/Walmart want) and it is a better revenue generator that the entire P1K/P2K/Heritage line put together! He said that the profits off of the train set line help fund the neat scale stuff we all want. As long as the big discount stores specify a certain price point for an item, the cheap train set will always be around. That said, Athearn & Bachmann do have some 'upscale' train sets - but you are seeing $100 and up pricing.

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

Quality doesn't come cheap.

You can buy cheap toys for the kids (be it generic Life-Like or Model Power train sets or wobbley, poor viewing telescopes at Hobby Lobby) and have the kids disapponted in the end, or you can spend some money and buy quality trains (Atlas new Trainman line comes to mind, or P1K or Athearn RTR) or telescopes (Meade or Celestron), and start a life-time hobby.

The trouble is, most parents want to buy cheap toys - that act like and last like cheap toys.

[dknelson]

I agree that firms like Model Power have probably done harm to the hobby by continuing to peddle train sets that are cheap junk. Often you can tell from looking at the thing that trucks have fallen off the cars even before it is sold.
It is obvious that the sets are built to a low quality standard. There is decent quality stuff from Model Power. They know how to do better.
"Back in the day" -- and here I am talking 1960 era -- firms like Mantua/Tyco and Athearn and Penn Line offered train sets that served to introduce the hobby because the sets had trains of the same quality that they sold individually. The track was usually Atlas snaptrack not some knock off. The trains would really run and were durable and the equipment was of a quality that you'd keep using it even if you advanced in the hobby to something more serious.
Some of the Walthers train sets look to be of a higher quality than the Model Power and Bachmann stuff I see being sold at Christmas.
Dave Nelson

[Jetrock]

I think they're missing what you're saying because you are not being clear--how exactly is the industry shooting itself in the foot? The lack of entry-priced items at your particular local hobby shop, the presence of train sets at the hobby shop, or the non-functionality of the department store set?

Online ordering has become a more common way to order budget model railroad items. Hobby shops, realizing that profit margins are better for high-end items and they can't match discount online retailers for low-end items, lean towards high-end engines and items that one is unlikely to order online (tools, scratchbuilding supplies, etc.) but I haven't seen a hobby shop lately that didn't feature at least a few entry-priced pieces. Maybe they don't still cost $25, but how long ago did you buy that $25 engine--and what else would $25 buy then (and can you still get that for $25 now?)

[rogerhensley]

I hear you. Every time I say that we are pricing ourselves out of the hobby, I get shot at.

Train sets are train sets. I had the opportunity to look over a Life Like HO train set the other day. Much to my surprise, I found it to be nothing like their better products. In fact, it was Tyco. I thought that Tyco was gone, but that Life Like loco had the larger wheel flanges and the Tyco motor in the one truck. In short, it will have the same running problems that plagued Tyco at the end. It isn't worth carrying home.

Now, about LHS, there are less and less of them every day and the Internet does not and can not replace them. A newbie to the hobby has absolutely no idea what they are looking at and only see price. High price!

I noted that someone in the other thread said something about Athearn Blue Box not really being worth the money (something like that). In one respect, they're right. The price has gone up on them as well, BUT they are still very much worth the money when you are new.

But how do we tell the newbie that when they look in the magazines and see $500 plastic HO steam engines and $200 HO F units. That is pure crap when it comes to newcomers to our hobby. We ain't-a-gonna get them, me bucko.

[lesterperry]

I think everyone is missing what I am saying. Or maybe I am wrong. I used to tell people do not buy the train set at department store for thier kids come see me I will take them to LHS for good stuff for almost same price.
I am beyond the beginner by a long shot. (going to up insurance to 15,000)
My brother in law didn't listen & bought the box, it wouldn't run. He was frustrated, called me. I went to LHS looking for entry priced items, N/A. Try another LHS they had the train sets. Is the industry shooting its self in the foot.
I gave my nephew an Athearn U boat and a Mantua 0-4-0. He was amazed that the actually ran.
If he had not known a model railroader (Uncle Les) he would have left it and never looked back.