$$$$$$$$

[lesterperry]

I have been in this hobby since I was 2 years old I am now 50. But seriously for 15 +- years. It seems to me that the manufacturers are pricing the hobby into the wealthy people only allowed. I used to be able to purchase an Athearn GP unit for $25 and it ran smooth, had lots of power and ran forever. (blue box) Now I don't even think I can find these unless dust covered on back of shelf somewhere. I know about inflation but 400%, come on. Am I looking at this wrong? I don't think I could afford to enter this hobby at todays prices.

[TrainFreak409]

Well, you can still get Athearn Blue Box F7 units for roughly $35, and I think they are awesome locomotives; smooth and powerful. But, some of the prices are a bit excessive for the quality. And it seems that some companies use the "Quantity over quality method." The prices may be high, but I am still in the hobby. I am 16, and have little money for trains, but I still make do. It takes more saving, and more information for the right model nowadays.

~[8]~ TrainFreak409 ~[8]~

[CP5415]

Not a lot of people could anymore.

The only reason got back into the hobby is because I joined a club in '96 & I've been steadily increasing my loco & rolling stock fleet looking for bargains where ever possible.

Gordon

[Darth Santa Fe]

You can still find some pretty inexpensive engines that are pretty good. Bachmann has 8 wheel drive GP40s, FTAs and FTBs and GP50s for about $33 each.

[Anonymous]

It's like any other hobby. If you're into bikes, you could buy a totally decent mountain bike for $500 that will get the job done. Or you could spend $4,000 (I know a guy who did this recently).

Guitars - you could spend a few hundred bucks or a couple thousand.

For me personally, spending a lot on a hobby does not make me feel good. Some love it.

Since there are still affordable BB Athearns, I'm happy.

[Anonymous]

I agree, the newer locos are getting a bit pricy for the beginner or the one tight on money like me, however there is a model train show, 365 days a year on ebay, I prefer to run blue box athearns, espicaly the older diesels with the metal trucks, and AHM/Rivarossi steam locos. Both are plentiful on ebay or at the local shows which I also support and set up small train layout for the kids at. You can make this hobby as expensive or cheap as you want to. We all want the super detailed brass loco, or the Trix all metal big boy, but may never have one. Just remember, you cant take any of it with you when the time comes to pass on, so enjoy it while your here! Cheers Mike

[jeffshultz]

Personally, I'm hoping that the $220 I'm going to spend on an Atlas Gold Master Series MP15DC will be the most I'll ever spend on any single item on my laptop...

[ericsp]

Athearn produced many Blue Box locomotives last year and many are still available.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=locomotive&OverallCatID=T&CatID=THL&SearchType=Standard&BrandID=ATH

[tstage]

You can still find some good deals on newer locomotives. All you gotta do is look for 'em. My P2K S1 from Trainworld still beats the cost of an Athearn BB: $29.99. Quiet as a mouse and runs smooth as glass. No complaints from me on that price...[:)]

Tom

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lesterperry

I have been in this hobby since I was 2 years old I am now 50. But seriously for 15 +- years. It seems to me that the manufacturers are pricing the hobby into the wealthy people only allowed. I used to be able to purchase an Athearn GP unit for $25 and it ran smooth, had lots of power and ran forever. (blue box) Now I don't even think I can find these unless dust covered on back of shelf somewhere. I know about inflation but 400%, come on. Am I looking at this wrong? I don't think I could afford to enter this hobby at todays prices.

Lester - There are several ways to view what is happening in the hobby today.

On the face of things, as manufacturers continue to cater to an ever smaller faction of hobbyist that are demanding ultra-accurate models with all the bells and whistle (literally!), and at the same time with the manufacturers appreciating that this niche group is willing to pay almost any dollar value for their models, we are seeing the pricing of highend equipment spiraling beyond the reach of the many hobbyists. Likewise, probably 90% of hobby advertising addresses only these highend items, giving the somewhat misleading impression that only the wealthy can be model railroaders today.

On the other hand, if you are not detail crazy, don't need sound, and are willing to poke around on-line retailers' full listings, there are still a large number of reasonably-priced engines and rolling stock to be had. It's just that you usually won't see them mentioned in the hobby press and they aren't going to be state-of-the-art. There is still a fair selection of the old Athearn blue-box diesels to be found out there, along with BB rolling stock kits. The smaller IHC steam locomotives are usually pretty good runners, as are recent examples by Bachmann. Anyone with the talents model railroaders are supposed to have can detail these engines up to their own standards without breaking the bank.

CNJ831

[trolleyboy]

Prices have climbed. Most manufacturers are going for more highly detailed and more obscure locomotives. Case in point LL in Canada produced MLW RS10's and 18's last year. Beautifull smack on detail but they are a Canadian Prototype never sold in the US to US roads. They retailed at 149.99 and sold out. Now they have re-run them with the sound chips for $250 also just about sold out.So it's a good news bad news situation. We pay a bit or in some cases allot more but you do get much better quality and detail. The big downside is that everything is limited production. plastic has become the new Brass. Rob

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

For me personally, spending a lot on a hobby does not make me feel good. Some love it.

Uh, aside from the 3K or so I spent on drums / drum related equipment a few years back. Ouch. Busted.

OK, so maybe I just like the concept of lower priced locomotives because then I know I could accumulate them a small amount at a time and have a fleet in 30 years?

[Anonymous]

Double Post - silly computer (or operator)

[NZRMac]

I spent a weeks wages on my PK2 2-8-8-2 and we're on a single income (mine ) and have two kids!! $650 NZ shipping included. I've bought 4 BLI loco's all new since september last year. My point is if ya want it get it cause you only get one go at it, sit back and enjoy the ride.

Ken.

[Virginian]

Go look in a high school parking lot. Money does not appear to be a problem for one heck of a lot of people. Things change and prices go up. I couldn't get into the university I graduated from today, much less afford it if I did get in.

[Anonymous]

Value is in the eye of the beholder. If our hobby cost us nothing at all, would we value it? If we did not have to put effort forth for our employment, salary,etc., would we have "value" and choices of how we "spend" that value. I wonder how much impact $ 2.40 per gallon fuel impacts us as well. Durning the same time period $ .25 grew to 100 times that and where are the free glasses and other incentives for a fill up?

[Anonymous]

Ya right. I want to buy some BNSF GP38-2's and they run like $50 a Model.
Allan.

[dano99a]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lesterperry

I have been in this hobby since I was 2 years old I am now 50. But seriously for 15 +- years. It seems to me that the manufacturers are pricing the hobby into the wealthy people only allowed. I used to be able to purchase an Athearn GP unit for $25 and it ran smooth, had lots of power and ran forever. (blue box) Now I don't even think I can find these unless dust covered on back of shelf somewhere. I know about inflation but 400%, come on. Am I looking at this wrong? I don't think I could afford to enter this hobby at todays prices.

Right you are that this hobby is being priced something ridiculous, for example there is an ad in the latest MR that the headlne says "That's a lot of Locomotive for $899.99" Now, granted it's a garden railway engine so it's large but HOLY COW!!! $900 BUCKS?
The Headline should read "That's a lot of locomotive, complete with financing options!" or maybe "Skip your mortgage payment and buy this! You don't need a house anyway if your railroad is outside!"

Ok, so I model in HO and things are A LOT cheaper than $900 but still there are some pretty expensive locos out there (BLI stuff and brass). I am pretty much an exclusive P2K user myself, they run good and pretty prototypical, but I'm sure those who buy BLI stuff will stand behind it anyday.

It's at a point now days where if you want better prices you gotta go lookin for them and start comparing. Due to a limited budget I was forced to do this, and because of pricing everything I see and remembering it the last 3 train shows I went to I didn't buy ANYTHING cuz everyone's prices were insane. I mean they were priced higher than the LHS and there was a time when that was unheard of.

So, my 2 cents; look at the price your paying, compare before you buy, you can get some great deals online, or through small private dealers and even ebay dealers.

One other thing: It's great to see another C&O fan out there [:)]

Cheers!

[orsonroy]

Life in general is more expensive. HAve you seriously looked at the real estate market recently? When I bought my house in the fringes of Illinois five years ago it cost $85,500. I'm now moving closer to the chicago area and the house I'm about to close on costs $250,000. My parents bought five acres and a nothing ranch house in 1982 for $100,000. Today, add a zero.

Just like with anything else, SHOP. Sure, I'd really like a Hummer (the original, not the POS H2), but I can't afford to shell out $80K for a car. I'm happy with my $20K Jeep. Same with toy trains: we might WANT a top end $700 engine with all the bells & whistles, but come down to Earth and buy a satisfactory $80 engine (or even $30 engine, if you dig hard enough). The hobby has plenty of room for all income levels, you just have to be realistic.

[Anonymous]

I think the most interesting part of this is exchange rates - stores over here seem very quick to put prices up when the $ is stronger but they take far longer to cut them back when the £ is up. I would agree that prices seem to have gone up, often without a noticable increase in quality - in the past 10 years the price of some locos has doubled but the build quality and detailing is much the same. Interestingly Lifelike seem intent on charging prices not much higher than BB for their P1K locos - my LHS had a bunch of their new RS11s for little more than what I paid for a BB SD9 a couple of years ago, and the higher price was more than justified by the extra detailing and lighting (would cost more to buy the parts and upgrade a BB loco). Compared to the prices for some UK market locos the US brands are still inexpensive - list price on some of Bachmann's big steamers is over $200, you won't find much below £80 new even at discounters. That $900 large scale loco sounds pretty much the standard for big locos in that scale - RhB electrics go for between £400 and £800 ($800 and $1600). I regard this as expensive but reasonable value considering they have a useful life of over 20 years assuming no accidents or damage and all proper maintainance is done. However, it doesn't have to be that expensive - a start set will set you back far less and if you're interested in traditional narrow gauge lines (as opposed to the Swiss metre gauge) your most expensive loco will probably be around the $400 area for a "pride of the line" big tank loco. The same goes in HO - building and stocking something like the "Turtle Creek" will not cost you a horrendous sum while building a large basement layout will cost more. I think it's still possible to build a good layout on a budget.

[Anonymous]

You fail to notice the vast improvements in the models - an Athearn BB is only middle level quality now days. The better, more expensive, models have far better and more accurate detail and paint, directional lights instead of the "fire in the cab" Athearn BB look, are DCC ready (or come with DCC and/or sound), and have quality drives (if you really think Athearn drives are "smooth", you must not have Katos or Atlas Masters!).

You get what you pay for - and I think I am getting my moneys worth.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbailey

You fail to notice the vast improvements in the models - an Athearn BB is only middle level quality now days. The better, more expensive, models have far better and more accurate detail and paint, directional lights instead of the "fire in the cab" Athearn BB look, are DCC ready (or come with DCC and/or sound), and have quality drives (if you really think Athearn drives are "smooth", you must not have Katos or Atlas Masters!).

You get what you pay for - and I think I am getting my moneys worth.

It's a wonderful lfe, George [:D] but...you're missing Lester's point. If you can't afford these newer models, and an ever increasing number of today's hobbyists can't, then whatever dramatic improvements in quality there might be becomes irrelevant, at least to them. In spite of what some nay sayers contend, ours was a very affordable hobby for decades. That aspect is rapidly vanishing...and many former hobbyist along with it.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

I think the hobby has gone through the same inflation as everything else. Athearn Genesis are alittle pricey for plastic but all the detail work is done for you and Athearn has always had one of the most accurate models of the F7. The old Athearns may need alittle help running smooth but they can be tinkered with and run pretty well. I actually prefer the old metal sideframe units. Maybe that's because I have yet to buy any of the Genesis units.
P2K's look good and run nice but their detail parts are very fragile. I have some P2K PA's and the plastic is so thin that the bodies have warped.
There are still alot of Stewart F's out there but it looks to me like the newer ones belong in the same category as BB Athearn but with a higher price. They look better but the drive system isn't so great.
Track has become rather ridiculous in price and I have been buying old Tru Scale whenever I can find it. I bought some ME code 83 flextrack and it strikes me as the cheapest made track I've ever had and cost over $1 a foot. It won't even sit flat because of mold nubs on the bottom of the ties.
Most of my rolling stock is old metal or wood and some brass that I bought as kits or built models. Nice clean ones can be $20 or so apiece but as long as I can keep them from rusting, I expect them to continue to rise in value as they are already 50 years old or so. The paint jobs on them are better than most being made today and usually many road numbers were made of each model. The color and graphics are probably as good as anything ever made. Lucky for me, I model the 50's.
When I was a kid, my dad had some rubber band drive Athearns, some old metal Varney locos, etc. I remember looking at brass models that were $80 or so and drooling over them. $80 seemed outrageous. Have you priced a new brass passenger train lately? 4 or 5k for some real nice ones. I have since bought some older brass models at fairly reasonable prices. Good enough for me.
A new car in the 50's and 60's could be bought for under 2k. Now, a nice used car can be 20 to 30k. Things change and it's hard for us older guys to change our old values. We remember working for $1 an hour or mowing a lawn for 25 cents. Makes it hard to shell out $100 for a plastic model even if we can afford it.
Bill

[twhite]

About 80% of my steam roster (and I only run steam) is brass, collected over a 40 year period. One of the reasons for brass, of course, is that the primary road I model (Rio Grande) has very few loco prototypes available in plastic. Over the years, I've found that by careful shopping (train shows, estate sales, swap meets, LHS consignments), I can usually find good brass at relatively affordable prices. Looking back on it, I don't think I've ever paid more for a brass loco than I have my several BLI's, and with a little patient tinkering, my brass runs just as well as the new sound equipped steam from BLI or Genesis (certainly better than the P2K's I've bought).
To answer your question, I think the hobby has gotten more expensive, and yes, I think the ads in the magazines are aiming at the 'higher-end' modeler, however there ARE bargains in motive power and rolling stock still out there, but a lot of times you have to ignore the ads and just start searching.
I notice that you model C&O, which is a favorite eastern railroad of mine, but like my Rio Grande, finding C&O steam that is affordable, is a chancy proposition--except for Rivarossi (2-6-6-6), P2K (2-8-4), Spectrum (4-8-2, 2-6-6-2) and BLI (2-10-4) which are all 'high-end' plastic, your only other option seems to be IHC, which makes a pretty presentable plastic C&O Mountain (runs nice, too). Other than that, you're like me--either kitbash or go with brass. I've had to do a little kit-bashing when a loco I wanted was either unavailable or so far out of my financial reach that I had no other option. One of them, an F-1 2-10-2 worked out pretty well (though I'd hate to have it viewed by a 'rivet-counter').
So there is another option for those of us starved for prototypes--low end locos--steam or diesel-- that run well, and a visit to the super-detail department of your LHS.
And, of course, doing a lot of detective work and a lot of bargaining. It can be done, it just takes a little time and a LOT of patience.
Tom [:D]

[lesterperry]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbailey

You fail to notice the vast improvements in the models - an Athearn BB is only middle level quality now days. The better, more expensive, models have far better and more accurate detail and paint, directional lights instead of the "fire in the cab" Athearn BB look, are DCC ready (or come with DCC and/or sound), and have quality drives (if you really think Athearn drives are "smooth", you must not have Katos or Atlas Masters!).

You get what you pay for - and I think I am getting my moneys worth.

I can't argue that you are getting your moneys worth. I have several high end Locos. But what I am talking about is the newbie as they are called. He is thinking about entering the hobby, goes to LHS all that is availible is $150 Athern Genesis or $200 - $300 BL. They for the most part don't have BB and if they do it is hidden in a corner.
If you knew nothing about MRR and was interested in trying it out $50 for loco is easier to handle than $150.
Also I do have Katos, Atlas, BL, Heritage, PK2, ect. But for the beginner any thing that wil actually run consistantly and semi smooth is a winner.

[BRAKIE]

Again its voodoo in disguise..How? The Robber Baron MSRP that the manufacturers stick on their products.. Then you have a $139.99 locomotive that is discounted down to $99.00 or less or a $99.00 locomotive discounted down to $64.99 or less.So,you can see the voo doo in the high Robber Baron MSRP.
Then you have those poor souls that cheer on these Robber Baron prices by trying to justify the high MSRP buy saying what wonderful models they are..Some of these same folk then trashes each new product that comes out that doesn't fit their modeling style or because a minor detail is missing that can be easily added or the paint isn't correct according to my trusty book written by a so called expert based on copied and printed pictures.But,still can't justify how these Robber Baron price locomotive can be sold at such discounts if the manufacture sets the Robber Baron prices.And we know the dealer is not loosing money.
So its all Voo Doo in the MSRP.[:(!]

[tstage]

I'll restate it again: You DON'T have to break the bank buying a locomotive. For newbies, we shouldn't expect them to know where to look for a good locomotive...or even good, inexpensive ones. That comes with experience and time.

That's why we should be looking out for the newcomers who show up on the forum EVERY DAY: To help them get off the ground and into the hobby...To give them the tips and helpful hints they need to avaoid getting frustrated...To point them in the direction where to find good product...To get them established so that they, in turn, can help alll those newbies who come behind them. And the cycle goes on....

Tom

[davekelly]

Excellent point Tom that I think we oftentimes forget. It's great when a new guy finds this forum and asks questions. Most of the time they are guided to Athearn BB or Proto 1000. But then there is always someone who says "To really enjoy this hobby you should get a good running smooth locomotive like a BLI and a DCC system to fully enjoy what that loco has. Of course don't get a beginner DCC system as you will outgrow it, try one of the radio equipped NCE or the Digitrax Empire Builder." Look at the bashing going on over the Bachmann DCC system. Many folks seem to think if it is a "beginner" item - it is junk. How many posts are here in answer to the "is the Bachmann Spectrum whatever" a good first engine get responses like "Botchmann is junk - bought a bunch in the 70's and they don't run for ____."

While it's easy to point the finger at the manufacturers, dealers, media etc as the enemy, sometime it is accurate to say "we've met the enemy and they are us."

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dano99a

QUOTE: Originally posted by lesterperry

I have been in this hobby since I was 2 years old I am now 50. But seriously for 15 +- years. It seems to me that the manufacturers are pricing the hobby into the wealthy people only allowed. I used to be able to purchase an Athearn GP unit for $25 and it ran smooth, had lots of power and ran forever. (blue box) Now I don't even think I can find these unless dust covered on back of shelf somewhere. I know about inflation but 400%, come on. Am I looking at this wrong? I don't think I could afford to enter this hobby at todays prices.

Right you are that this hobby is being priced something ridiculous, for example there is an ad in the latest MR that the headlne says "That's a lot of Locomotive for $899.99" Now, granted it's a garden railway engine so it's large but HOLY COW!!! $900 BUCKS?
The Headline should read "That's a lot of locomotive, complete with financing options!" or maybe "Skip your mortgage payment and buy this! You don't need a house anyway if your railroad is outside!"


Cheers!

Hehehe I'm doing largescale, i know what you mean, Luckily for me all my engines were less than $70 (small industrial critters) but if you want a GP9 fork over $200, DASH in large scale, cough up about $350 (thats on the cheap end of the food chain) a GG1? try about $1600 big ones, and finally the new USA trains 4-8-8-4 die cast Big Boy! your first born and about $2200 should do it, also a couple of acres to run it would help[:0][:p]

[MisterBeasley]

My first car, purchased in 1968, cost me $2100 brand new. I could fill the tank for under 3 bucks. The tuition at MIT that year was $1900 for the year. And I still had to save a long, long time before I could buy anything new for my trains.

Relative to inflation, things like track have gotten cheaper. Sure, the high-end stuff like sound-equipped locomotives costs a lot. It always did, and it always will. The LHS was never a cheap place to shop, even 40 years ago. The good news is, most of the stuff I bought 40 years ago is still functional, if a bit outdated.

Think of it this way - a round of golf at a premium course is now well over a hundred dollars. Spend that, and what have you got at the end of the day but a sunburn? Put the money into a nice locomotive, treat it well and it will last a lifetime.