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GM is ending HO/N licenses for scale vehicles

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Friday, May 27, 2005 10:40 AM

Bangert, your post stirs up some memories for me.

I was a loyal, "slam dunk" supporter of GM. My cars, until 1994 were GM.

What turned me off to buying any more GM s was the arrogant attitude that GM's brass exhibited in the 80s regarding quality and customer service. I remember reading back then that GM executives would let known electronic and mechanical defects slide through assembly lines on new models even though the costs to fix them were relatively minor. The attitude that "GM is good for America" still prevailed. Profit must be considered, but at what cost? Unions were blamed for GM's ills, yet the top brass's lucrative salary contract guaranteed them Millions in salaries, bonuses, stock options; regardless whether profits were up or down. The writing was on the wall, the big giant's "Roman Empire" style dominance was beginning to weaken.

Several friends of mine bought GM cars brand new as did the transit agency I worked for. Minor glitches and problems are to be expected, but wow! From what I experienced GMs seemed to be abundant in this area. Anyone remember the fuel tanks on the pickups that exploded on impact? Top it off, there were countless reports of owners complaining about poor customer service. Angry

I visited a Chevy dealer to buy my wife a car. Perhaps it was our jeans and T-shrits, but the salesman treated us like we were wasting his time. GM lost two loyal customers that day! So what happened? Me and my hot rod friends, little by little, started buying Toyotas. Ironic, as I had stated that I would never own a Japanese car. I have had to eat humble pie since then. Shy

So for me, the GM I enjoy.........is the one from my childhood and teen years.

Yes, the new Corvettes and Cadillacs are impressive and better in quality, but I'm no longer interested.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by bcawthon on Saturday, May 28, 2005 2:26 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Leon Silverman

The solution to the 2.25" minimum is to sell "stretched" versions of the smaller cars. The purchaser could then cut out the stretch section out of the middle of the model, glue the remaining halves together, and produce an authentically kitbashed (kit slashed?) model of the real vehicle.


There are lots of things one could do, including making the models 1:86 scale or 1:85 scale, which are still quite usable sizes, or tacking on extras to add a 1/16-inch of length, allow more models to cross the threshold.

But why?

It's easier to make precision-scale models of other brands of cars and trucks without jumping through hoops. Can't make a Corvair? Okay, make a Falcon, Valiant or Dart or a Rambler American. No Hummer H3? There's still the Jeep Wrangler. The new Cobalt, G6 and LaCrosse are off limits? Okay, make HO versions of the upcoming Fusion, Milan or the new Chrysler that will replace the Sebring.

And with every new model that comes out, I will send one to the manager of licensing at GM with a note saying, "This could have been a GM car." [}:)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, May 28, 2005 12:56 PM
It has been determined by the "AMERICAN FEDERATION OF CHILD PROTECTANCE" that the following hobbies pose a choking hazard to small childern and will therefore no longer be allowed in our society. This is only a partial list and will be added to at a later date. MODEL RAILROADING (ALL SCALES), DIECAST COLLECTING (ALL SCALES), MODEL BUILDING, (ALL SCALES), STAMP COLLECTING, (ANY SIZE), COLLECTING OF ANYTHING WITH PARTS SMALLER THAN A BASKETBALL, ETC,ETC,ETC......GIVE ME A BREAK[V][:(!] WHERE ARE THE STUPID DUMB @&$ PARENTS THAT DON'T WATCH THEIR KIDS OR ALLOW THEM TO PLAY WITH THINGS LIKE 1/87 SCALE VEHICLES TO BE BEGIN WITH. PROSECUTE A FEW OF THEM FOR THE DEATHS INSTEAD OF ALLOWING THE MONEY GRUBBING ATTORNEYS TO FILE THESE LAWSUITS, AND YOU'LL SEE AN END TO THIS STUPIDITY, AND IF IT IS A MONEY THING WITH GM OR ANYONE ELSE, START LOOKING AT THEIR BOOKS AND YOU'LL FIND THE REAL MONEY GRUBBING YAHOOS.
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Posted by chutton01 on Saturday, May 28, 2005 3:12 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Leon Silverman

The solution to the 2.25" minimum is to sell "stretched" versions of the smaller cars. The purchaser could then cut out the stretch section out of the middle of the model, glue the remaining halves together, and produce an authentically kitbashed (kit slashed?) model of the real vehicle.

I wouldn't mind if they sold stretched late-model Lincolns (yes, I know, not GM - however I could use some limos for a limo garage on my layout).
And you know, I see Ford F350/450/550s (Super Dutys) practically everywhere, hauling, towing, and pulling everything, and rather few Silverados. I think that if they actually started making Japanese models (German models are VERY well covered), plus Ford and Chrysler products, nobody would even notice the lack of late model GM products...
(except Police Car modelers - it seems the Lumina is becoming a Police Standard around these parts (New York/NJ).
Still, to be safe, when this news first came out, I brought 2 late model Boley Top-Kicks, just in case...
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Posted by davekelly on Saturday, May 28, 2005 3:36 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by emeraldisle

PROSECUTE A FEW OF THEM FOR THE DEATHS INSTEAD OF ALLOWING THE MONEY GRUBBING ATTORNEYS TO FILE THESE LAWSUITS, AND YOU'LL SEE AN END TO THIS STUPIDITY,


It takes an attorney to prosecute someone. And believe it or not if juries wouldn't give the awards then the "money grubbing attorneys" wouldn't make much on those type cases.
If you ain't having fun, you're not doing it right and if you are having fun, don't let anyone tell you you're doing it wrong.
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, May 28, 2005 6:48 PM
The first post on this thread has got to be the longest in the forum.
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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Saturday, May 28, 2005 9:57 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsf6733

The first post on this thread has got to be the longest in the forum.



Hello BNSF6733,

With all due respect, as I may be reading it wrong, but your comment almost seems like you're taking a "pot shot" at Bill.

Bill Cawthon did something that absolutely exemplifies what this forum is all about...Helping and keeping fellow modelers informed!CaptainThumbs Up

How many model railroaders actually knew about the situation with GM? From what I've read, VERY FEW! Myself included. Even many hobby shop dealers were unaware! Since this forum has members from around the globe, word will travel. I've already posted Bill's info on another forum. Other modelers here will likely do the same.

I'm not putting you down, just suggesting that you read your comment carefully and think how the person that it pertains to might perceive it.

Peace!Cool

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by bcawthon on Sunday, May 29, 2005 2:41 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by chutton01

I wouldn't mind if they sold stretched late-model Lincolns (yes, I know, not GM - however I could use some limos for a limo garage on my layout).
And you know, I see Ford F350/450/550s (Super Dutys) practically everywhere, hauling, towing, and pulling everything, and rather few Silverados. I think that if they actually started making Japanese models (German models are VERY well covered), plus Ford and Chrysler products, nobody would even notice the lack of late model GM products...
(except Police Car modelers - it seems the Lumina is becoming a Police Standard around these parts (New York/NJ).
Still, to be safe, when this news first came out, I brought 2 late model Boley Top-Kicks, just in case...


Stretch limos would be a neat idea, but it might be easiest to produce the long-wheelbase Lincoln first and let individual modelers work their own magic on a stretch version.

Japanese cars are very interesting, and a topic worth pursuing, but as I mentioned earlier, which ones do you make? Collectors will want things like the Z, model railroaders would rather have Camrys and Accords. Europeans will want something totally different.

To be really honest, my goal at this time is to persuade a couple of modelmakers to begin producing American cars from the 1960s and 1970s. There are plenty of Ford, Mercurys, Plymouths, Dodges, Chryslers and ,yes, Lincolns waiting to make their debut in HO scale.
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Posted by Kyle on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:58 PM
Sadly, this is the world we live in today, something happens, someone gets hurt, and yea, now they can sue. This I as dumb as saying we aren't making trucks anymore because someone could get run over, or someone could get into a wreck. But sadly that is the world today.
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Posted by steemtrayn on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 11:51 PM

'bout time this thread got revived.

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Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 2:21 AM

Steemtrayn,

Maybe and Maybe not,,,,,,,,,Some will not look at the date,of the thread and that will be a new beginning,,or so it would appear,to them..Whistling

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:27 AM

brothaslide
I guess we'll be running a lot of Fords on our scale highways.

That's OK with me, that's what I drive in real life too.

Government Motors iswelcome to keep their stuff.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:40 AM

Jim

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:22 AM

steemtrayn

'bout time this thread got revived.

 
A waste of time.  Let's all do some modeling instead.
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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 9:47 AM

maxman

steemtrayn

'bout time this thread got revived.

 
A waste of time.  Let's all do some modeling instead.
 

But other equally old threads insist that we don't do modeling anymore.   More on topic, do we know if in fact General Motors followed through on this threat to smaller-than-S models?   I don't follow the scale vehicle market that closely to know.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:09 AM

The issue is not General Motors...

More than that I cannot say lest I run afoul of the dictates against politics on this board.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by CSX_road_slug on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:20 AM

dknelson
...   More on topic, do we know if in fact General Motors followed through on this threat to smaller-than-S models?   I don't follow the scale vehicle market that closely to know.

I recently bought a 1971 Camaro in HO scale; don't remember who the manfacturer was or where I got it from, but it was brand new and I don't remember seeing it back in 2005.

-Ken in Maryland  (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)

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Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 AM

CSX_road_slug

dknelson
...   More on topic, do we know if in fact General Motors followed through on this threat to smaller-than-S models?   I don't follow the scale vehicle market that closely to know.

I recently bought a 1971 Camaro in HO scale; don't remember who the manfacturer was or where I got it from, but it was brand new and I don't remember seeing it back in 2005.

Does,Classic Metals, 40's,50's era, Trucks and Cars count?? they are not a 71 Camaro,,but they surely were put out after 2005 and there are others..Whistling

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by don7 on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 2:34 PM

I still see the 1955 Chevys offered by Model Power and a number of 1950 Chev pickups offered.

In fact when this thread was first posted I did buy enough 1955 chevs and 1950 pickups to last me forever, as well as a number of other GM cars such as the 1950's Buick and Caddys as well.

No years later and these are still available............

Then of course there is the Woodland Scenics vehicles, no brand names that look very much like cars that I remember, but without being identified as such

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Posted by Geared Steam on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 6:34 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

brothaslide
I guess we'll be running a lot of Fords on our scale highways.

That's OK with me, that's what I drive in real life too.

Government Motors iswelcome to keep their stuff.

Sheldon

Ford fans are the ones that trade in every 5 years, GM guys drive ours for 20 (because we can) Laugh

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Kyle on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 9:38 PM
Geared steam, my uncle has the first model year of the Expidition, and it runs great, not to mention the fact that it is still comfortable. I admit Ford ha gone a bit down in quality since them, but they are still fine. If you look around in certain areas, there are these old ford trucks still running tough, some people have the several ford trucks in their drive way, a newer one and a older one. Though I do admit, my other uncle has a Chevy silverado that runs fine, and is a 74 I think, not sure. Personally, I would like to have a diverse lay out, and not have the same cars everywhere,
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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, September 19, 2013 3:01 AM

Geared Steam

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

brothaslide
I guess we'll be running a lot of Fords on our scale highways.

That's OK with me, that's what I drive in real life too.

Government Motors iswelcome to keep their stuff.

Sheldon

Ford fans are the ones that trade in every 5 years, GM guys drive ours for 20 (because we can) Laugh

Geared Steam,

Just My Two cents,,,,,,,,Are you one of the guy's,that gets a Antique Ford body,puts a Chevy motor in it,with a Ford rear end??Whistling

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by John Busby on Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:21 AM

One interesting story I heard

Was a train manufacturer that ran foul of one of the railway company's for producing its trains livery on the correct model of train.

So they just said shove it and stopped producing it, they produce a lot of other company's trains using the same moulds because they are correct models. and they sell well

The rail company that jacked up is now bust must have had to spend all there money on advertising

No body has thought of all the free advertising the hobby industry can and in all probability does produce.

I think the fair usage argument has some merit our models look like a given car but they are not one hundred  precent copies 

You can't drive one into town to do the shopping for the week.

Some claim model making is an art form that's fair usage is it not

regards John

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:59 PM

Geared Steam

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

brothaslide
I guess we'll be running a lot of Fords on our scale highways.

That's OK with me, that's what I drive in real life too.

Government Motors iswelcome to keep their stuff.

Sheldon

Ford fans are the ones that trade in every 5 years, GM guys drive ours for 20 (because we can) Laugh

That's funny, my 2000 F-150 (13 years old) just turned over 200,000 miles, is not all rusty like a Chevy truck, and runs great, just getting broke in.

Question - number one selling vehicle in the world? Ford F-150 pickup.

I drove Chevys for years, until front wheel drive came along. Chevy does not even make a car to compete with this:

Big car comfort, all wheel drive, 360 HP, 360 lb ft torque, twin turbos, same engine as a Ford Taurus SHO, easy entry and exit for us old people, plenty of room for those trips to the train show, blue tooth, navigation, adjustable pedals. memory seats, leather seats, 20" rims, 390 watt audio, rear view camera, etc, etc, and 26 MPG highway.

Been driving Fords for 20 years, never got rid of one in only 5 years  - except for a crash.

But what do I know?

Sheldon

 

    

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Posted by Redore on Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:01 PM

I haven't read through all this thread, but what about all those other GM products we have a lot of.  Is this the end of F7's, GP 9's, and SD40's?  May as well kill the hobby.

I'd swear off GM cars and trucks, but I've already done that.  They made lousey trucks 15 years ago.  That's another story for another place.

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Posted by Redore on Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:05 PM

By the way, I'm anxiously awaiting the day that 3D scanners and printers come down in price and I can make any d*** model car or truck I want.

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Posted by Adelie on Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:32 PM

GM sold EMD in 2005 and I would guess the marketing/intellectual property rights went with EMD. I think they are owned by a subsidiary of Caterpillar these days.

It was a brilliant move, really.  GM opted to sell off something that was running in the black to get cash to prop up operations that were hopelessly hemorrhaging money.

- Mark

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:51 PM

Adelie

GM sold EMD in 2005 and I would guess the marketing/intellectual property rights went with EMD. I think they are owned by a subsidiary of Caterpillar these days.

It was a brilliant move, really.  GM opted to sell off something that was running in the black to get cash to prop up operations that were hopelessly hemorrhaging money.

 
But let it be said that when GM did own and run EMD the GM sense of public relations applied.  As a boy I wrote to EMD basically saying "send me information on all your locomotives I especially like the F-3."  This would have been in the 1960s and my best engine was a Varney F-3.  EMD replied promptly with superb  SCALE drawings of the then new GP35, GP40, SD40, and SD 35, together with those spectacular color painting ads that they ran in the mid 1960s in Trains and Railway Age magazines, and a typed note said basically the F3 has been out of production for many years and this is the best we can do -- a very decent drawing of the F3 and its interior. 
 
Interestingly the GP40 drawing was very early or even pre production.  A friend of mine is building a 1"=1' version of that engine to run at a local "live steam" railway park, and he was astounded when I could supply him with that drawing. 
 
Dave Nelson
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Posted by Schuylkill and Susquehanna on Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:09 PM

The original post is from 2005!

Based on current availability of GM licensed HO and N cars, I'd say that this worked out just fine.  Time to let this thread die again.

S&S

 

Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!

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Posted by Catt on Friday, September 20, 2013 12:22 PM

"Time to let this thread die again"Thumbs Down

Why if you don't like reading it don't read it.Big Smile

Johnathan(Catt) Edwards 100 % Michigan Made

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