FORUM CLINIC: Building realistic scenery

[potlatcher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate
Real dirt has the problem that it's the right color outdoors under sunlight, but will be hopelessly too dark under indoor lighting of any kind. And real dirt will probably look the worst under common cool florescent lights, shifting color toward the blue-green end of the spectrum as well as looking too dark.

So I make my own "real dirt" by using powdered tempera paints and plain white plaster of paris. This is a variation on Linn Westcott's famous "zip texturing" idea popularized in the late 1960s. The nice thing is you can take a photo that has the dirt color you want to duplicate, and you can match it exactly by mixing your own colored "dirt" while you are looking at the photo under your layout lighting.

After several months of bare benchwork and scenery forms (pink foam wedding cake) I finally dove in and started the basic scenery for a corner section of my layout this last weekend. I have a bunch of real dirt from my prototype location that I had sifted and mixed 50/50 with Durham's Water Putty to lighten it (per a recommendation in Dave Frary's scenery book).

After looking at it last night and realizing it looked awfully dark, I came upstairs and logged onto the forum only to find Joe's commentary on modeling dirt. Either Joe was a little late with this segment of his clinic, or I jumped the gun. Either way, I'm going to test out tempera paints as Joe suggests and also try real dirt with more water putty added in to see how they compare. After I find the right mix, I'll go back to see if I can fix the section I just completed.

Thanks again for this forum, Joe. Yes, we are following right along with you.

Tom

PS If anyone at MR is reading this, how about a new forum dedicated to clinics of this type? It would sure be easier to access this information if it were all in one place.

[Anonymous]

Joe,

Informative and well thought out. I think people are reading and enjoying your clinic. I know I am.

[n2mopac]

Thanks again, Joe. I am in the early scenery stages of my new (second) layout, so I am soaking these ideas up with great interest. I used latex paint (tan) and fine ground foam before. I was pretty happy with the results, but this process sounds like its worth testing. Keep the good ideas coming.

Ron

[jfugate]

Linn Westcott's ZIP texturing used dry powdered colors as opposed to powdered tempera paint. The dry powdered colors don't darken as much when you use them to color the plaster. However, tempera paint is much easier to find at craft stores or in the craft section of Walmart, Target, K-Mart, etc.

The tempera paint - plaster mix darkens considerably when you wet it, that's why its good to test it first. Ideally, you are comparing it to a photo you have under your layout lights. This way, you'll get a color that's dead on for what you are trying to model, and that's not too dark.

Because of the normal standing viewing distance to our models,it's like looking at the prototype from hundreds of feet away. The colors are slightly more muted at that distance. Add to that the far dimmer indoor lighting, and you need to definitely lighten your scenery colors for it to look like the real out-of-doors even though its inside.

That's one of the "secrets" of the realistic scenery on the Siskiyou Line. The colors are kept light, which makes the layout look larger and feel like it's in the "great outdoors".

Here's a simple snapshot taken at a recent op session that shows the light colors and the "open spaces" look of the Siskiyou Line. All on an HO layout where the deck here is perhaps 24" wide!

[vsmith]

Joe

Keep it up, the scenery phase ended up being the Bane of my last two layouts. This is helpfull. I already found a few places where I messed up last times. I just bought a kister load of Woodland Scenic stuff at a LHS annual sale, got more than enought to try some of these technics on my Micro-layout testbed! I'm looking forward to trying these out.

[dwRavenstar]

Heya Joe,
Definitely reading, certainly useful and absolutely appreciated.
I can only hope I'll do half as well utilizing your techniques as you've done in presenting them.
Thanks for sharing.

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[egmurphy]

Here's a link to the Designing For Satisfying Operations clinic:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=25535


Yup, ZIP Texturing. The only other time in my life that I actually got to do any scenery work was on an N Track module that I built while a member of a modular club back in 1983. Did the scenery on that little piece with ZIP texturing. Came out okay for a beginner. In fact, I still have some of the powdered colors. Found them a few months back when I was opening up boxes of long packed away train stuff.


Regards

Ed

[cwclark]

I just printed your recipe for rich and tan dirt but i'm going to use colors of the southwest,,,probably will blend yellow ochre, raw sienna, burnt umber, and red iron oxide in the mix...i believe this was called "ZIP" texturing and I remember it from years back but forgot it along the way...I've used it before and it works great! thanks for reminding me about it again..i did a desert scene using this technique years ago and it came out looking just like the desert...chuck

[jacon12]

I for one am trying to keep track of this and I've picked up so many good ideas from it. I'm new to everything in mrr, so it has been a big help. I've done similar articles many times on photography so I know that it takes time and thought to put them together AND a willingness to share and help others.
For that I sincerely thank you.
Oh!... can you point me to the forum/clinic you did on operations please? I really need to read that one also.
Thanks!
Jacon

[SpaceMouse]

I read it. I understand it. This one is easier in concept than the operations one. I had to read that one a couple times and may do it again.

[simon1966]

1700 odd views in 15 days would suggest that a bunch of us a reading this. I represent at least 15 of these as I have also been and looked everyday. Keep it going!!! Thanks again for doing it

[Anonymous]

Joe, I look everyday, at least once. Am learning a bunch and really appreciate it. Please keep it up. Oh, and BTW, I am already a DVD subscriber and enjoy them very much also.

John
Austin, Texas

[Anonymous]

PLEASE continue, Joe! I think one of the reasons that you aren't hearing much is because you are explaining things so well.... there aren't many questions to be asked.

I am ejoying this thread immensely, and trying to figure out the best way to organize the information so I can keep it and use it when I'm ready.

Also - I'm looking forward to seeing your work in MR.

Also (again) this is really giving me reason to give your DVDs a close look. When some $$$ comes in, I want to start getting those.

Please keep up the great work!

Rob

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Been kind of quiet on this topic the last few days ... anybody reading this? Anybody find in these ideas something you can use?

Or does everybody understand this perfectly? Or do you think I'm crazy to do it this way?

Any comments, questions, criticisms, or even a smart remark? [:D]

Joe needs a constant steam of "thank you" and "you are so cool" post to survive.

just mucking with you. [8D]
Nice going Joe. I look forward to you demonstrating these things on your Scenery volume.

[jfugate]

Been kind of quiet on this topic the last few days ... anybody reading this? Anybody find in these ideas something you can use?

Or does everybody understand this perfectly? Or do you think I'm crazy to do it this way?

Any comments, questions, criticisms, or even a smart remark? [:D]

[jfugate]

TOPIC THIS POST: Finishing rough scenery - Applying dirt/background grass

Now that we've ballasted the track, it's time to deal with all that bare scenery.

After the plaster sets up, I typically paint the scenery a basic dirt brown color. I go to the paint store and find the cheapest indoor flat latex paint I can find and have them mix me a good dirt color. Find a photo that has a dirt color you want to match, take it to the paint store, and match to a color chip, then have them mix up a batch for you.

Once I get home, I mix the paint 50-50 with water, and then paint it on the plaster scenery to give it a nice dirt brown color. I often do this before I ballast the track.

After the track has been ballasted, I start from the ground up adding scenery color and texture. For the background scenery, color maters most, and texture is not as important. You'll see what I mean in a moment.

I know lots of people who use fine ground foam or real dirt for their "dirt" in their layout scenery. Ground foam of any grind is generally too coarse for dirt, and a good range of dirt colors are hard to find. Real dirt has the problem that it's the right color outdoors under sunlight, but will be hopelessly too dark under indoor lighting of any kind. And real dirt will probably look the worst under common cool florescent lights, shifting color toward the blue-green end of the spectrum as well as looking too dark.

So I make my own "real dirt" by using powdered tempera paints and plain white plaster of paris. This is a variation on Linn Westcott's famous "zip texturing" idea popularized in the late 1960s. The nice thing is you can take a photo that has the dirt color you want to duplicate, and you can match it exactly by mixing your own colored "dirt" while you are looking at the photo under your layout lighting.

(Notice what you are doing here by matching the color in this fashion. You are getting a dirt color *under your indoor layout lighting* that looks the same as the dirt color outside in a photo taken under outdoor lighing. If you took some of that dirt from the photo area and brought it indoors and held it under your layout lighting next to the photo, it would look much too dark! So much for using real dirt.)

Be aware that the plaster - tempera paint mix darkens quite a bit when you wet it down, so mix up a batch that looks too light to you, then apply it to a scrap of scenery, wet it down and allow it to dry. Once it's dry, check the color. If it's too dark, add more plaster and try again. If it's too light, add more color and try again. Keep track of your formula so you can repeat it later.

Generally, you want somewhere between 2 - 8 parts plaster to color, or perhaps 10 parts plaster if you need a really light "dirt". Keep track of the total parts that are color. For example, the rich brown dirt color below has 3 parts that are color, so 9 parts plaster is really a ratio of 3 parts plaster to 1 part color (9 divided by 3 is 3). For reference, here's some simple formulas I use.

Rich brown dirt:
1 part black
2 parts brown
9 parts plaster (3:1 color to plaster)

Tan dirt:
1 part black
2 parts brown
1 part yellow
16 parts plaster (4:1 color to plaster)

Get yourself a tea strainer, spray wet water (water with a few drops of detergent in it) on the bare brown scenery, and sprinkle some of the plaster-tempera mix onto the scenery. Then mist the plaster mix from above lightly with more water from a pump spray bottle. In a couple of hours, the plaster should be dry and set up. If it's still loose, spray it again.

If I want something that looks muddy, I'll soak the plaster good. Or if I want a more dusty look, I'll take it easy with the water.

I also use this technique for background grassy slopes, since the color is more important than the texture for background grass. Mix up a color that matches the grass color I'm using in the foreground, then I'll add a pinch of blue tempera to it (and *just* a pinch) and add an extra part of plaster to lighten it. Here's an example for background yellow grass.

Background yellow grass:
2 parts yellow
1 part brown
pinch of blue
15 parts plaster (5:1 color to plaster)

Now that we've got some basic dirt color on things, it's time to move toward the foreground and look at adding some realistic grass.

NEXT TOPIC: From the ground up - Realistic grass

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by egmurphy

Couple quick questions.

Do you have a very steady hand or do you use anything to help guide your hand/brush when painting the sides of the rail?

Any trouble with paint getting on top of the rails? Just wipe it off quickly? Or do you ever put any oil on top so any overpaint wipes off easier?

Last, why do you prefer to ballast first , then paint the rails and ties? I would have thought it would be paint first, then ballast, but I don't have any experience to go by (just getting to this stage).

Thanks

Ed

Ed:

You will like the MR article, because it explains all this. Plus I sent MR a video (runs about 5 min) showing this all being done before the camera in brief ... we'll see if they use it. If nothing else, I'll be showing this in front of the video camera in volume 4 of the Siskiyou Line video series to be out later this year (vol 3 on electrical and control is in the works now for an April-May release).

I just paint away, getting paint on the tops of the rails and on the ties near the rails. But not to worrry, the color on the ties actually is prototypical (weathering from the rail sides on the tie plates and ties is common), and any color on the tops of the rails is removed when I poli***he railhead with 600 grit sandpaper (very fine grit) at the end. Polishing the railheads with the sandpaper is easy to do and cleans everything up nicely.

Here's another photo from the MR article (click to enlarge):

The front rail has been polished already, and I'm working on the back rail in the photo ... you can see the paint and weathering powder on the rail that I have yet to remove. And I haven't cleaned the railheads on the back track at all yet in the photo.

I ballast first because some of the ballast moves around when you use the glue. Just a few grains, but enough that if you start scraping any stray ballast grains off the sides of the rails and tie tops, you are going to remove the paint and weathering too.

So ballast first, deal with any stray grains and vaccum them up. Now you can weather your track and it won't be disturbed by a bunch of scraping. Plus you want some of the rail weathering to get on the ballast because that's what happens on the prototype too! The ballast comes first, then the weathering. [:D]

[jfugate]

Dave:

For mainline track, yes, grass is not proper unless the track is about to be abandoned. For industrial spurs, some grass is okay, though.
[:)]

[dave9999]

Ok Joe, be honest... look at this pic and tell me if the track is too "grassy" for mainline trackage. I like the
look of grass growing between the rails, but would this be a common sight in the early 50's? I have
thought of going back with some more ballast and covering the grass, but the grass has kind of "grown"
on me.(pun intended). Thanks, Dave

(click for a larger view)

[jcopilot]

Joe,

I have really enjoyed your forums, the one on operations and now this one. Thanks for taking the time and making the effort. This is really good stuff.

Jeff

[egmurphy]

I have a couple of quick questions.

Do you have a very steady hand or do you use anything to help guide your hand/brush when painting the sides of the rail?

Any trouble with paint getting on top of the rails? Just wipe it off quickly? Or do you ever put any oil on top so any overpaint wipes off easier?

Last, why do you prefer to ballast first , then paint the rails and ties? I would have thought it would be paint first, then ballast, but I don't have any experience to go by (just getting to this stage).

Thanks

Ed

[JohnT14808]

Cool hints and tips, Joe. Thanks from a returning modeler who needs all the help he can find!![:D]

[SpaceMouse]

Its amazing that every thing you do is at least a little different than what seems to be conventional wisdom. This is not a bad thing, it give us options. I can see myself combining a lot of techniques. (And ripping a bunch out.)

[jfugate]

TOPIC THIS POST: Ballasting and weathering track

With the sky backdrop finished and the rough scenery plaster work done, I usually ballast and weather the track next. I use MicroEngineering flex track, codes 83, 70, and 55. I like this track because it has very tiny spike heads and a realistic randomness to the ties. Ballasted and weathered ME track looks better than handlaid, in my opinion.

(NOTE: Model Railroader editor Andy Sperandeo asked me to submit an article on these techniques, which I have done. My article might appear late this year (Nov/Dec) or sometime next year, so watch for it. In the meantime, I'm going to be covering these techniques in the Siskiyou Line video series video volume 4 on scenery, among other things.)

I ballast the track using Woodland Scenics fine gray ballast, which is a color that matches the prototype Siskiyou Line. You'll need to pick a color that is right for the region you model. Keep in mind that when you bond the ballast using the techniques I outline here that the color darkens slightly.

I spread and shape the ballast using my fingers and a small stiff-bristled brush. I like to use my fingers because it gives me lots of control. I use the stiff-bristled bru***o brush ballast away from the rail sides and off the tops of the ties after doing the shaping with my fingers. You want your ballast to be even with the tops of the ties, but not *on* the ties.

I use 70% isopropyl alcohol straight to wet the ballast prior to gluing. This pre-wetting step is essential because without it the glue will simply bead up all over the ballast and ruin all your careful shaping efforts. The alcohol is great because it goes right in without disturbing the ballast. I use an old white glue bottle, fill it with alcohol, set the tip to release just a drop at a time, and then dribble it all over the ballast until everything is soaked with alcohol.

Next, I bond the ballast with a white glue solution. I mix 1 part white glue to 3 parts water, and add several drops of dish detergent to the mix so it will soak in readily. Carefully dribble the white glue all over the ballast and let it dry overnight.

The white glue will displace a few ballast grains, but for the most part, things should stay put nicely if you follow these directions. For the few grains that always stray, after things have dried overnight, I take a small screwdriver and lightly scrape the stray grains off the rails and tie tops. Use light pressure on the rails so you don't strip any plastic spikeheads off the track (especially critical with ME track because of the tiny spikeheads).

Vaccum to remove any loose ballast grains.

I paint the sides of the rails with Pollyscale Roof Brown (mainline) or DRGW Depot Brown (sidings/spurs). I prefer waterbased paints, and Pollyscale sticks to the metal rails well. Use a size 00 brush, and don't fret if you get paint on the ties. If you look at real track, you'll see some of the weather color on the tie plates and ties under the rail -- so you're just making things more realistic if you get the rail weathering color on the ties around the base of the rail!

Next, I use an old phonebook as a paint palate and mix some craft acrylic paint (black, brown, white) to get some black-brown and gray-brown color that I paint randomly on a few ties using a size 0 brush. Hit maybe 20-30% of the ties to give them some realistic variation. Paint spur and siding ties more weathered brown and gray tints to reflect the greater weathering and less maintenance they typically get.

Let everything dry for about 30 minutes.

Next, we need to weather between the rails. Looking at prototype track, it tends to weather differently between the rails than it does elsewhere. To simulate this, I mix 1 part plaster with 1-part black powered tempera paint and bru***his dry powdered mixture down the middle of the track (mainline).

I mix 1 part black, 1 part yellow, 2 parts brown, and 4 parts plaster and bru***his dry powdered mixture down the middle of sidings and spurs.

I mist the track with wet water to fix the plaster-tempera mix in place (it will also fade somewhat). The secret is the plaster in this mix -- that will make between-the-track weathering more or less permanent once you mist it with water and it dries. For extra heavy weathering, brush some more weathering powder between the rails while the track is still damp.

Finally, I clean off the railheads with 600 grit sandpaper (poli***he railheads, really) and then vacuum.

Here's a photo of some finished track done this way (from the MR article):


(click on the photo for a closeup)

Notice how realistic the track looks. If you treat the track like any other model and weather it appropriately, it will look great!

NEXT TOPIC: Finishing the rough scenery: applying dirt/background grass

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate
Yes, this kind of topic is what I think the forum needs more of. I have this secret wi***hat maybe others would pick up on the approach and do some thing similar.

We'll see, aye?

Oh don't worry. I have somthing coming up that people may find useful.

[lupo]

Thanks for all the info ! [tup]

Look forward to the next topic :

Ballasting and weathering track

[jfugate]

Bowser:

Glad to hear you find this information to be of use.

Yes, this kind of topic is what I think the forum needs more of. I have this secret wi***hat maybe others would pick up on the approach and do some thing similar.

We'll see, aye?

[Anonymous]

This kind of topic is why I joined this forum. Fairly new to the hobby and I love a good topic with insight and ideas that will help me get my first layout off the ground.

Thanks for all the tips and please don't stop.

Bowser [bow]

[lupo]

this topic does not belong on page 3

[underworld]

Yeah, real trees really aren't an option in N scale or smaller. But I have used them in HO. They are definately not for everyone.....but they do look cool. When I used them an an HO layout, I used real trees in the foreground
.........background were mix of different manufacturers and some home made.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]