FORUM CLINIC: Building realistic scenery

[jfugate]

SpaceMouse:

Your idea with the ferns sounds like a good one. This is the kind of thing I typically do to emphasize the difference in texture from the foreground to the background.

For example, I use silflor, fake fur, static grass, and sweatshirt grass in the foreground (in front of the tracks between the fascia and the tracks).

Behind the tracks, I employed the "used" sweatshirt material itself for the grass. It's kind of fuzzy, but not as fuzzy as the foreground grass.

In the background against the backdrop, I use yellow-tan plaster tempera powder for the grass. The color matches on all three, except for a slightly blue-grayer yellow grass in the background. The result is a scene that hangs together well, and displays realistic texture differences from foreground to background.

I'll see if I can take a photo tonight illustrating this and post it here.

[Anonymous]

Joe,

I have been reading this thread from the beginning numerous times trying to get it all to sink in. Fantastic ideas for my new layout. I learned on my current layout all about dirt, etc. being much darker on a layout than real life. I can't wait to try some of the ideas you have given me. I've been to your website, also terrific! Keep up the good work. I'll try to keep up.

Ray

[SpaceMouse]

Back to the ferns. Couldn't you use a trick like putting brass ferns in front and apaparagas fern a little behind that and some mass produced psuedo-plant further back?

[chateauricher]

jfugate,

Thanks for answering my question so quickly. [:)]

I've taken note of what you used for lighting and I think I can find something similar up here in Canada that will do the job. [:)]

BTW, I'm working in N-scale.

[jfugate]

Yes, without special lighting, the lower deck of a multideck layout can get mighty dark! Here's what I use:


(the scenery in this photo is unnaturally dark so the light sockets show up with less lighting glare)

Leviton porcelain surface socket, they're called. Here's a link to them on the internet:
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/30540/icn/20-066092/leviton/001_9880.htm

And if you want to read more about them, I discuss them here on my web site:
http://siskiyou.railfan.net/model/constructionNotes/lighting.html

I also discuss multideck layout lighting in volume 2 of my Siskiyou Line video series. MyMemoirs Video distributes the Siskiyou Line videos, see:
http://model-trains-video.com

Hope you find this info to be of help!

[chateauricher]

jfugate,

I love getting all these great tips from you (and the others posting in this thread). I'm still in the dreaming/planning stages and am taking careful note of every tip posted here.

I have a question for you ... I'm planning to do a double deck layout; but I am a bit at a loss as to how to illuminate the lower deck. I have thought of rope-lights; but I'm not sure they will be bright enough. I was looking at halogen "puck" lights (designed for under-cabinet use); but the prices are a bit outrageous. I want to be able to dim the lights, so fluorescent tubes are out of the question. So, my question : what type of lights did you use ?

Thanks.

[jfugate]

Someone asked what my plaster - tempera dirt looks like close up ... so here's a photo.

This is clearly a layout photo and it's not going to win any awards, but as a scenery study shot it's interesting, and it does show a transition from brown painted bare plaster scenery in the foreground, to scenery with dirt texture, and finally finished scenery with grass, trees, and ground cover.


(Click to enlarge)

[Anonymous]

Bump!

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by n2mopac

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate


Finally, N's getting small enough the texture may be less of an issue for anything outside of tall grass.

This is the assumption I have proceded with in the past. I have use various colors of fine ground foam varried with small bits of medium to course foam torn apart to simulate clumps of grass, then planted areas of tall grass using horse hair (from WS). The effect overall has not been bad, but I am always looking to improve.

Ron

I think this is a reasonable approach for N. Do consider some "wild" fields here and there of "tall" grass, where you use shorter nap fake fur and silflor. Should look awesome in N ...

[n2mopac]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate


Finally, N's getting small enough the texture may be less of an issue for anything outside of tall grass.

This is the assumption I have proceded with in the past. I have use various colors of fine ground foam varried with small bits of medium to course foam torn apart to simulate clumps of grass, then planted areas of tall grass using horse hair (from WS). The effect overall has not been bad, but I am always looking to improve.

Ron

[tutaenui]

As an alternative to etched brass ferns I find the fronds from the preiser HO palm kit can be used to make realistic tree ferns.

[jfugate]

Paul:

You know, western Oregon scenery doesn't take much in the way of rock faces to model, so I mostly hand carve the rocks using my plaster-vermiculite mixture. This mix makes hand carved rocks look pretty good because it has a gritty rock texture to it that I think enhances the look.

Rock molds get into the techniques for making the molds, etc, which I'm not planning to cover. Because of the less frequent need for rock faces in my Oregon scenery, the same dozen rock molds I've had for the last 20 years have served me well when I have had the occasional need for a mold.

The only other trick is the way you can reuse molds and turn the rocks different directions. Blend the molded face in with just a little bit of hand carving, and no one will ever notice you reused the same mold more than once in the same rock face.

Hand carving is something that's best demonstrated on video I think. It's one of those things that's hard to describe in just text form without examples to show people. Hand carving rocks ought to be a good chapter in my scenery DVD due out later this year.

[Anonymous]

Very nice topic Joe,

Thanks for taking the time. How about rock molds and rock faces? Is that a separate topic in itself?

The fake fur and silfor techniques look sgreat, I will need to try that one...

Paul August

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Maybe I should wait until next topic, but the area I'm modeling has a lot of ferns but not much else. Is there a trick for ferns?

SpaceMouse:

Ferns are a tough one. The best I've seen are some etched brass ferns ... here's a photo, which is On3:


(This image is from the All Model Railroads forum here: http://www.all-model-railroading.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=313 , also see Barry Pate's site at: http://uk.geocities.com/barry_pate/ )

However, it will cost you a small fortune and take forever to cover a forest floor with these guys, and they're a bit on the big side for HO or smaller.

You could also try asparagus fern, which is a lot cheaper and doesn't look quite as good, but it will still take you forever to cover a forest floor with them.

This is one thing that's probably best to not bother with unless you're in the larger scales and you have a smaller layout, with time and money to spare.
[:D]

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rexhea

Joe,
I give up!
What is Silflor and is there a good use for all the sawdust I create?

REX

Rex:

Silflor is a recently new artificial fiber mat material that makes wonderful model grass. It's made in Europe and is available from serveral sources. Just do a google on silflor.

Here's some silfor close up (a photo from my web site):

(click to enlarge)

Here's a link where you can buy silflor:
http://www.internationalmodels.net/acatalog/Main_Catalogue_Index_Silflor_53.html

And I do a comparison between silflor and fake fur on my web site here:
http://siskiyou.railfan.net/model/constructionNotes/silflor.html

[FJ and G]

My buddy is building a layout near where I live and he just weathered his Lionel bridge using a product from Bragdon Enterprises that just kicks butt.

I've never before heard of the product but here's the URL.

http://www.bragdonent.com/weather.htm

BTW, he is going to put greater detail into the water like an oil slick and dead fish, since it represents NY harbor in 50s and 60s. This is just the beginning shot. It's O scale. BTW, he's a former N scale detailed person so you can be sure that there will be a lot of surprises.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by n2mopac

Fake fur looks great on an HO layout, but does anyone have suggestions for N scale grass? Fake fur always looks too course and tall on an N scale layout in my opinion. Is there a better N scale option out there that I have missed?

Ron

Ron:

With a bit of shopping around, you can find short nap fake fur that will work for taller grass in N. For short grass, I'd use the sweatshirt method discussed in RailModel Journal. Look for "sweatshirt grass" in the Index of Magazines here on Kalmbach's site.

Basically you get white sheatshirt material and dye it your grass color. Then you paint your scenery area with contact cement and glue the sweatshirt material fuzzy side down into the contact cement and let it set up for a couple of hours.

Then you rip the sweatshirt material off like when pulling a band-aid off, with a quick motion. This leaves behind fine fuzz from the sweatshirt material that looks like short grass. The only problem with this technique is that sometimes the plaster under the grass area comes up instead of the sweatshirt material pulling away.

Static grass also would work well, but it's finicky to get down without the right equipment.

Finally, N's getting small enough the texture may be less of an issue for anything outside of tall grass.

[rexhea]

Joe,
I give up!
What is Silflor and is there a good use for all the sawdust I create?

REX

[SpaceMouse]

Maybe I should wait until next topic, but the area I'm modeling has a lot of ferns but not much else. Is there a trick for ferns?

[n2mopac]

Fake fur looks great on an HO layout, but does anyone have suggestions for N scale grass? Fake fur always looks too course and tall on an N scale layout in my opinion. Is there a better N scale option out there that I have missed?

Ron

[cwclark]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Chuck:

Any photos you can post of the results? I'd like to see how the final result looks. [:D]

I will be including them in my webshots photo album..have way too many irons in the fire right now with other layout matters but will get the pics out eventually...Chuck

[Anonymous]

Joe, I've been keeping quiet on this whole posting as I don't have anything of value to add to what's been posted by you and others but instead I've been reading and learning (I hope) so when I get to accomplishing these things on my layout I can do so without a great deal of error. It is greatly appreciated by myself but moreso by the fan base you seem to be creating. There are a large number of fans reading, learning, converting and otherwise trying your ideas out for size. I think this is perhaps one of the best uses for a forum and I hope you keep it going. You are deffinitely helping a lot of people who otherwise would end up scratching their heads wondering why their layout doesn't cut it with other modelers let alone themselves. Keep up the good work. Dale

[jfugate]

TOPIC THIS POST: From the ground up - Realistic grass

One scenery area where I am a real fanatic is modeling grass correctly. I've been on a crusade of sorts for years to find the best materials for modeling grass realistically, yet quickly enough that it doesn't take a lifetime to scenic your layout.

I've tried sawdust, ground foam, twine, sisal rope, brush bristles, felt, yarn, sweatshirt fabric, static grass, fake fur, and silfor.

Twine, sisal rope, brush bristles, and yarn all require you plant them a clump at a time, and it can take several evenings of tedious work just to do a small field so that it has more grass than bare spots.

Sweatshirt fabric and static grass work pretty well, but you have to do a lot of fiddling with contact cement, equipment, and so on, and the results are sometimes inconsistent.

Fake fur and silfor work the best in my experience, with a couple of caveats.

Fake fur looks just a little too "fuzzy" on the edges and is hard to transition from grass to bare spots convincingly. Silflor is just about the perfect all around grass modeling material, looking great on the edges as well as in the middle, but it costs something like $20 a square foot, so it's not cheap. Compare that to 75 cents a square foot for fake fur and you can see which one ought to be used for the larger grass expanses.

So I model a large grass expanse with a combination of fake fur and silflor. I use silfor on the edges and fake fur in the middle of a larger grass expanse. I get fur with a similar nap length to the silfor, and I brush in acrylic paint both into the fur and the silfor to match their colors. Here's a couple of photos to show you the result:

First the finished scene, without distinguishing the fake fur and the silfor.

(click to enlarge)

The the same scene, with the fake fur and silfor boundaries marked.

(click to enlarge)

This approach economizes on the use of silfor, yet solves the fake fur edging issue. The boundary is nearly indestinguishable and can only be seen up close if you know what you are looking for. No one even notices unless you point it out, and even then most people can't see the boundary with certainty.

To attach the grass, I use hot glue. Get yourself some rubber dishwashing gloves and put one on your main hand you use to plant the grass to protect yourself from the hot glue -- it can cause nasty burns if you aren't careful. I'm left handed, so I wear a glove on my left hand.

I undercut the backing on the silfor then put a ring of hot glue around the edge and press it down to the scenery and hold it for a few seconds to allow the glue to set up. For larger expanses of fake fur, I cover the backing with zig zag trails of glue, then press it in place.

I like the hot glue because it makes the work go fast. I can press a piece of grass in place and move on a few moments later to do the next clump or spot of grass.

The one downside of hot glue is the fine web-like glue strings you get all over everything. Use a strong light and just grab them up like you do cobwebs and pull them off the scenery now and then as you work.

Next, bushes and other ground cover.

NEXT TOPIC: From the ground up - Realistic bushes and ground cover

[jfugate]

Chuck:

Any photos you can post of the results? I'd like to see how the final result looks. [:D]

You can spray paint the track with an airbrush first similar to how you suggest, and with less fumes. You should use a respirator in any case to protect yourself while doing it. (I've given myself double vision from the fumes a couple of time when I did not do this. So I use a respirator now!)

Even if you spray paint the track, you still need to come back and hand paint a few ties other shades to introduce some realistic variety. Ties all one color just doesn't look realistic.

I prefer to wait until after the ballasting is done because a few grains always stray onto the rails and tie tops, and then when I start scraping off those grains I would scrape off the paint on the rail and ties too.

Plus in looking closely at prototype track, I found the rail weathering often also gets onto the tieplates and ties around the base of the rail. So that meant I could brush paint the sides of the rails, even be sloppy about it, and it only enhances the realism of the track. Painting the railsides by hand goes fast since you don't have to be real precise, and I can do it without using the respirator. [swg]

[cwclark]

I know Joe doesn't like spray painted track but I like to spray paint track and the technique i use works very well...this is for the track and ties only before ballast is added...any way ..here it goes,..(and make sure there is plenty of ventilation in the room)...i first purchase three cans of krylon paint. red primer, flat black, and primer gray and make sure i have plenty of wahl's clipper oil on hand...first, with a rag, i'll wipe the clipper oil on the top of the rail so the paint doesn't stick to it....then i'll stand above the track and spray very lightly straight down onto the ties with the flat black paint..let it dry, then I'll take some scrap pieces of card stock and place them over the ties and against the rail and from the side, lightly spray the red primer onto the rail sides..once that dries, in random spots i'll give the track short bursts of the gray primer to highlight the areas along the track and once that dries, i'll wipe the excess paint from the top of the rails with an old cloth and go over them again with a bright boy track cleaner...this weathering technique is quick and easy and i usually use this technique on the mainline track...for sidings and spurs i'll usually hand paint the rail with a mixture of floquil rail brown mixed with roof brown and the ties flat black ..once I'm done with the rail and ties I'll weather the ties and ballast after the ballast work is done....Chuck

[Anonymous]

You have a yes vote from me on having another forum for these types of threads. Although idle chit chat is o.k., I like meaty subjects that cause some brain activity! However, I am also a dinosaur that still likes to read books. Being exposed to multiple methods of doing scenery is a great way to build confidence and get you dipping your hands into the plaster, paint and other scenery materials.

I will admit that I have looked askance at some of Joe's suggestions (in particular painting track after ballasting) his results bare out his methods and I freely admit I ain't no ex-spirt!

Others amoungst us must have similar ideas that this type of forum would be great for. If you do, have-at-er!

[rexhea]

Joe,
I can't thank you enough for sharing your valuable knowledge and experience with us. As with many, your timing is perfect for me. After 16 months of benchwork, wiring, track laying, I only have about 10% of scenery down. I have made all kind of excuses for not doing scenery, but in all honesty I haven't had the slightest idea what I was doing. Just try and then tear it out until it looked right. Thanks to you, I now have the instruction that I have so badly needed.

(I believe the reason I layed so much track down was to avoid starting the scenery)
[:I][(-D][(-D]

Please keep up this valuable thread.

REX

[Anonymous]

Thanks for this clinic. The timing could not be more perfect!

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by potlatcher


PS If anyone at MR is reading this, how about a new forum dedicated to clinics of this type? It would sure be easier to access this information if it were all in one place.

I think this sort of thing online is long overdue. I'd like to see it done with not only text, but steaming video clips, downloadable PDF "cheat sheet" documents summarizing the steps, mini discussion forum just for each clinic, and an FAQ summarizing the common questions that get raised.

The simpler clinics would be free, and the more elaborate ones would be in a subscriber area that charges a small fee to help defray the costs of the online space, professional streaming video production, etc.

The http://model-trains-video.com site that distributes my videos is interested in hosting such a thing, so stay tuned. They're building a website prototype of just what I described above and hope to have it available later this year.

If and when it materializes, I'll let you know. And of course, MR could do just such a thing too ... we'll see, aye?

[jacon12]

Originally posted by egmurphy

Here's a link to the Designing For Satisfying Operations clinic:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=25535

Thanks Ed!
Jacon

HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.

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