gregcever since i started looking at forums, i thought it would be interesting to read what a psychologist thought about them. each seems to have it's own characteristics. fortunately, they've found ways to prevent/discourage abusing and even inconsiderate posters. but i see different cultures on MR forums i watch in terms of # of posts and relavence to the thread topic, as well as other, more techinical forums (e.g. Arduino Programming Questions) what i find surprising is the large # of comments on a typical MRH thread. i checked recently and found the average # post/thread to be 73 and not uncommon to see 200+ while threads describing someone's particular RR, started years ago have far greater comments (e.g. 800+)
Greg, I found your initial post a good one as I notice numbers in everything I do regardless of the relevance of them to any given situation. My 24-year-old son makes big bucks as an executive and his ability to annalize makes him a very valuable asset when it comes to big data. He doubled up on the numbers thing as his Mom is also a human calculator.
I think any shrink would say that human nature is fickle and most lack the ability for any meaningful critical thinking while at the same time jumping on any bandwagon that is criticizing anything.
This was a good Filosophy Phriday question that would make for a good conversation with a small group sharing a good bottle of scotch.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Unfortunately most long threads tend to be about debates and filled with opinions. I seldom participate and when I do I don't bother reading more than the previous page at most.
Long threads discussing actual useful information, like protype practices et al, are rare but are great finds when I come across them.
It irritates me to no end when people give strange or mysterious titles to their posts. I like organization and prefer threads with accurate titles as well as ones that remain on point. If you want to discuss something else, start a new thread.
SeeYou190 kasskaboose See the fun DC vs. DCC debate. I have never seen this debate. There are a handful of us still using DC, because in our cases it meets our needs. I will be the first one to recommend to any newcomer that they go with DCC. I do not recall anyone stating DC is better. I certainly don't feel that way. However, it is right for me. gzygadlo Whole point of this hobby is to have fun and enjoy any way you see fit. -Kevin
kasskaboose See the fun DC vs. DCC debate.
I have never seen this debate.
There are a handful of us still using DC, because in our cases it meets our needs.
I will be the first one to recommend to any newcomer that they go with DCC. I do not recall anyone stating DC is better. I certainly don't feel that way.
However, it is right for me.
gzygadlo Whole point of this hobby is to have fun and enjoy any way you see fit.
-Kevin
Long before you joined us, if a person asked a DC wiring question, like how to wire a reverse loop, or how to use power routing to kill dead end sidings, a large contingent of DCC users would chime in and tell the poster the best solution to their problem was simply to switch to DCC.
Or, if advanced DC users like myself or Chuck Beckman (tomikawaTT) explained in detail what we were doing and suggested the idea that it might suit the needs of some users, we were met will all sorts of ugly name calling.
I was told by one person that I was "threatening the future of the hobby" by suggesting DC might be a good choice for some.
I wrote pages of technical info on my control system only to have it deleted by moderators.
So yes, I got defensive at times.
It also became tiresome to have to have misinformation about DC posted all the time by DCC users who had never used DC.
Stuff like you have to rewire engines to run them back to back, or you can't run multiple powered units in a consist, and of course my favorite, the warnings against the dreaded "toggle flipping".
56 years at this and my DC layouts with multiple trains in multiple blocks have never used "toggle switches", but what do I know? They have used several different systems to assign throttles to blocks - but not toggle switches.
I recommend DCC to new people also. I realize most new people are not interested in prototype operation, CTC, detection, signaling or taking the time to learn what they don't know about electrical control systems - and I'm not really interested in teaching them anyway.
I've used DCC, on lots of different layouts. It has its pluses and minuses.
But since I'm not interested in sound, and I am interested in CTC, DCC does not offer much that I can't do just as well with DC and wireless radio throttles.
Forum culture - not enough talk about actual modeling for me these days - I'm doing my best to make time to build my layout. When the progress is interesting enough, I might post a picture or two.
See you next week, or next month....
Sheldon
Um, Sheldon, you were the one posting DCC misinformation; saying things like every DCC loco decoder was $100 each, falsely inflating the price of DCC conversion back when we were comparing costs of DC vs. DCC.
You also said things like DCC was being "forced" on modelers by MR (and other hobby media). Instead, MR was just following the path the hobby had taken.
In the past, you have been on DCC-titled threads, making comments about using DC instead. Not much different then DCC users commenting on DC threads.Toggle flipping is still a thing; not everyone is an wiring expert like yourself. I think the number of users of your type of DC control system is probably less than the total number of Z-scalers. Heck, my club used toggle cab control for 45 years (1953-1998) before moving and switching to DCC in 1999. Your kind of DC control is quite advanced and needs no little skill to design, create, and maintain. You are gifted in that regard, but I think that is well beyond the average model railroader's skills. DCC, OTOH, is quite simple to set up and use by comparison, even for new people to the hobby.Sheldon, I'm just saying that it took a long time before you would give DCC the time of day on this forum. You definitely started here with a (DC vs. DCC) bang...
Geez, I hadn't been paying attention to the number of Views. 10,300 !
That is awesome. I implore the mods not to shut this baby down. If we keep our eyes on the prize, we could hit 100,000 Views. Keep those comments coming.
Rich
Alton Junction
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Forum culture - not enough talk about actual modeling for me these days - I'm doing my best to make time to build my layout. When the progress is interesting enough, I might post a picture or two.
The irony of this comment is undoubtedly lost on the poster.
Paul3 Um, Sheldon, you were the one posting DCC misinformation; saying things like every DCC loco decoder was $100 each, falsely inflating the price of DCC conversion back when we were comparing costs of DC vs. DCC. You also said things like DCC was being "forced" on modelers by MR (and other hobby media). Instead, MR was just following the path the hobby had taken. In the past, you have been on DCC-titled threads, making comments about using DC instead. Not much different then DCC users commenting on DC threads.Toggle flipping is still a thing; not everyone is an wiring expert like yourself. I think the number of users of your type of DC control system is probably less than the total number of Z-scalers. Heck, my club used toggle cab control for 45 years (1953-1998) before moving and switching to DCC in 1999. Your kind of DC control is quite advanced and needs no little skill to design, create, and maintain. You are gifted in that regard, but I think that is well beyond the average model railroader's skills. DCC, OTOH, is quite simple to set up and use by comparison, even for new people to the hobby.Sheldon, I'm just saying that it took a long time before you would give DCC the time of day on this forum. You definitely started here with a (DC vs. DCC) bang...
Also, why shut down one of the few threads realy active, you trying to put the final nail in this forum. We need more discusions to bring this forum back alive. If you don't like what you started, you move on, there is no law that says you have to ever revisit a thread you start! Now this is forum culture.....
rrebellwhy shut down one of the few threads realy active,
because i started it as a discussion of forum culture, not the price of TV or the DC/DCC debate. you could start yet another thread on DC/DCC to bring the forum back alive
... or is that part of this forum's culture, to take the thread off topic?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
gregc thread off topic?
Russell
csxns gregc thread off topic? Same thing happens on the Trains forum.
Same thing happens on the Trains forum.
In my quest to read more text about modern railroading and railroads, I have lurked on the Trains forum quite a bit lately.
Yes, off topic there too. Discussions often drift to how things were in the good old days, you know, prior to the year 2000. Same as here.
It seems that for a thread to get a lot of replies, the discussion has to quite often focus on how things used to be.
- Douglas
gregc rrebell why shut down one of the few threads realy active, because i started it as a discussion of forum culture, not the price of TV or the DC/DCC debate. you could start yet another thread on DC/DCC to bring the forum back alive ... or is that part of this forum's culture, to take the thread off topic?
rrebell why shut down one of the few threads realy active,
But isn't that what creates a lot of replies. If the thread is going to stay rigid to the topic, and focus on providing accurate information about the topic, how many replies can a thread have?
Once the thread is answered correctly or completely, not much is left to say. When it drifts to opinion, points of view, and tangential topics then the reply count goes up.
richhotrainIf we keep our eyes on the prize, we could hit 100,000 Views
I missed it. What is the prize?
All threads in all forums mutate to off topic.
I look at the list of most recent threads on this forum and wonder "why is this thread still getting new posts"
If I make the mistake of looking, I find someone is arguing about how molassas is made and someone else had rear end hurt because of something someone posted 5 or 10 years ago.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Can you say clickbait?
I get the need to draw attention to a post, but this one is reaching diminishing return (sorry if I caused anyone PTSD with the economic term).
Why do I still post here though? Admission is the first step!
Did you think forums were immune to entropy?
MidlandMike gregc rrebell why shut down one of the few threads realy active, because i started it as a discussion of forum culture, not the price of TV or the DC/DCC debate. you could start yet another thread on DC/DCC to bring the forum back alive ... or is that part of this forum's culture, to take the thread off topic? Did you think forums were immune to entropy?
Nailed it.
Forum culture?
Tonight I read this forum for the first time in...quite awhile, and noticed this thread first, and just read much of it.
I freely admit I'm an imperfect person, and I tried to keep my past posts on these forums civil. However, one individual decided that he had to argue and take issue with just about every single thing that I ever said. That individual, I swear, if I said "the sky is blue" would argue it is any other color but blue.
That made these forums a less than fun experience, so I stopped even reading them let alone posting anything. I simply do not need the stress and hassle of constantly being belittled by the one individual.
To the newbies who might read this, well I hope your experience is better than mine was. That is all I have to say.
richhotrain Truth be told, the manner in which the forum is set up, and the limitations imposed on Tom to moderate it, results in an inability to change it. Nothing said or wished for in this thread can have any effect on the conduct of the forum because the members are pretty much free to say whatever they want, how often they want.
Truth be told, the manner in which the forum is set up, and the limitations imposed on Tom to moderate it, results in an inability to change it. Nothing said or wished for in this thread can have any effect on the conduct of the forum because the members are pretty much free to say whatever they want, how often they want.
I cannot help but notice though the number of views which has now exceeded 11,000, making this thread, for better or worse, one of the most popular threads on the forum, averaging nearly 500 views per day. People are interested in what one another have to say. Personally, I am getting a kick out of the whole matter.
richhotrainwhatever the culture of the forum is, there is nothing that any of us individually can do to change it.
i feel there are things that we do and don't do that influence culture:
richhotrain richhotrain Truth be told, the manner in which the forum is set up, and the limitations imposed on Tom to moderate it, results in an inability to change it. Nothing said or wished for in this thread can have any effect on the conduct of the forum because the members are pretty much free to say whatever they want, how often they want. As I mentioned in my first reply to this thread, whatever the culture of the forum is, there is nothing that any of us individually can do to change it. We cannot vet new members, and Tom's powers as moderator are severely limited, so we are all stuck with what we got. I cannot help but notice though the number of views which has now exceeded 11,000, making this thread, for better or worse, one of the most popular threads on the forum, averaging nearly 500 views per day. People are interested in what one another have to say. Personally, I am getting a kick out of the whole matter. Rich
As I mentioned in my first reply to this thread, whatever the culture of the forum is, there is nothing that any of us individually can do to change it. We cannot vet new members, and Tom's powers as moderator are severely limited, so we are all stuck with what we got.
I've always been a bit miffed as to why it so important to stay on topic in the first place. The mods seem to let threads drift as long as they stay relevant to model railroading. I agree.
DoughlessI've always been a bit miffed as to why it so important to stay on topic in the first place.
Now, I think part of this is due to a peculiarity in the way Forum software presents a thread -- once the topic is selected and the last post is being read, it's natural to respond to what you see, even if that is technically a diversion or even a full-blown hijack. This also tends to be a concern with necro threads, because it requires careful inspection or even a bit of scrolling to recognize the dates on posts, but the last post or two sets the mood for replies...
OvermodThere are some threads where it's important to stay 'on point' -- when someone needs advice about a particular thing, on when the topic is on a reasonably well-defined subject.
Sorry, I don't agree that there is an importance. I have started threads where the answers don't really come close to the question. My reading skills allow me to pass by those responses or discard them rather quickly.
If say, 2 out of 10 replies are actually helpful, its better than 1 or zero. I just assume the other 8 replies are people sincerely trying to offer what they know on the topic, knowing that their answer isn't perfect but might be helpful in some way.
Are we talking about drifting way off topic.....like to houses, lawn tractors, relocating, etc. Again, I don't see these comments as problematic and I choose to read them or not, depending on my mood.
there are answers to threads where someone has misread them, done that a number of times but ussually notice and deleat, but not always.
PRR8259I stopped even reading them let alone posting anything. I simply do not need the stress and hassle of constantly being belittled by the one individual.
I hope things have changed enough that you will be back often.
Living the dream.
rrebell there are answers to threads where someone has misread them, done that a number of times but ussually notice and deleat, but not always.
I think misinterpretation is a main reason for answers that might seem off topic. The reader either has misread an answer, or the answerer themselves misread the question.
Or the question itself is not written in a way that fosters the proper type of answer.
I started a thread in the Prototype section about what kind of tank cars were used to transport molasses in 1975. I was expecting an answer like 11,000 gallon tank cars. Or an ACF this or that. What I got was:
The need for baffles in a tank car if its going to carry molasses
Links to other discussions on the topic, none of which spoke to 1975.
And then some humorous discussions about molasses tank cars blowing up. Once in 1950 and another in 1919.
I didn't get offended at any of the non-reply replies. I just figured that nobody understood the type of answer I was looking for, or were offering their thoughts on the topic in what ever helpful way they had to offer.
DoughlessI started a thread in the Prototype section about what kind of tank cars were used to transport molasses in 1975. I was expecting an answer like 11,000 gallon tank cars. Or an ACF this or that.
Your very first post in that thread said this:
DoughlessAnswers and discussion appreciated.
I took that to mean you were encouraging discussion. My bad.
Sugar Cane is one of the few areas where I have fairly good depth of knowledge. I started advancement in my career as the primary field engineering connection with my employer and Austoft who was importing the model 770 sugar cane harvester for United States Sugar. Austoft even opted to place their US headquarters in Fort Myers because that is where I lived and where I worked from.
For four months every year I lived at US Sugar Corporation. You can't spend that much time with sugar cane farmers and not learn a lot about how it all works.
I consider the Austoft 770 to be one of four machines that I am an expert with. You could take one completely apart, put it in a dump truck, unload it in a pile in front of my house, and I could assemble it for you.
-Photograph by Kevin Parson
Of course, that is all obsolete, they are all gone now.
Anyway, I was not in Clewiston in 1975, so I had no direct knowledge of how molasses was hauled back then. I was 15 years late to the party, thank goodness. My understanding is that sugar cane production was pure hell prior to mechanization.
Also, I don't like sugar beets. Sorry. I am a Floridian, the home team is cane, and cane rules.
I suppose that if you suggested to someone in Georgia that Nectarines are superior to (or even equal to) Peaches, it might be similar.
I know I should not be answering any threads in the Prototype section. It is just not where I belong.
SeeYou190Your very first post in that thread said this: Doughless Answers and discussion appreciated. I took that to mean you were encouraging discussion. My bad
The discussion part got there quick. The answer part is late in coming.
I wrote that because I already knew that the topic would invite comments that did not answer the question. I guess you could say that I've been here long enough to understand the culture, LOL.
Either way, I'm not offended and I encourage any discussion on the topic of molasses and tank cars. Its why I provided that response and its consistent with what I'm saying in this thread.
Those that would've been looking only for answers might be disappointed.
SeeYou190 Sugar Cane is one of the few areas where I have fairly good depth of knowledge. I started advancement in my career as the primary field engineering connection with my employer and Austoft who was importing the model 770 sugar cane harvester for United States Sugar. Austoft even opted to place their US headquarters in Fort Myers because that is where I lived and where I worked from. For four months every year I lived at US Sugar Corporation. You can't spend that much time with sugar cane farmers and not learn a lot about how it all works. I consider the Austoft 770 to be one of four machines that I am an expert with. You could take one completely apart, put it in a dump truck, unload it in a pile in front of my house, and I could assemble it for you. -Photograph by Kevin Parson Of course, that is all obsolete, they are all gone now. Anyway, I was not in Clewiston in 1975, so I had no direct knowledge of how molasses was hauled back then. I was 15 years late to the party, thank goodness. My understanding is that sugar cane production was pure hell prior to mechanization.
Careful Kevin. You're getting dangerously close to posting pics of lawn tractors.
The very first bullet point on the forum rules sticky:
Stay on topic -- model train talk only, please (though civil off-topic discussion is tolerated in the Diner thread).
DoughlessCareful Kevin. You're getting dangerously close to posting pics of lawn tractors.
I will need to be careful.